This week on the pod, the gang settles in to the project and describes their experience with Gord's 3rd solo release, The Grand Bounce.
Transcript:
Track 1:
[0:01] Hey, it's Justin. You know and love us on the Discovering Downey podcast, right? So come hang out with us in person for the finale. Join us for Long Slice Brewing Presents, a celebration of Gord Downey at The Rec Room in downtown Toronto on Friday, July 19th. Craig is coming from Vancouver. Kirk is coming from LA. I'm driving from Vermont. And JD is like walking down the street or wherever he lives in Toronto. Tickets are available now on our website at discovererndowney.com. And when you get your tickets, that means you can come hang out with us and our very special guest, Patrick Downey. And you can bid on some incredibly cool silent auction items, all while jamming along with tragically hip cover band The Almost Hip. And most importantly, helping us raise money for the Gord Downey Fund for Brain Cancer Research. Crack open a long slice, put on some Gord tunes, take a journey with us on Discovering Downey, and then crack open another long slice on July 19th and hang out with us in the 6th. I always wanted to sound cool and say that. For more information, follow us on all the socials and visit DiscoveringDowny.com. Cheers.
Track 2:
[1:23] Thanksgiving. Victims and their victim-ears sit down to Turkey hungry for punishment full of mercury fullimate, serene after the screaming. Grace makes the mouth make shapes it's never made before. We give thanks for the poetry we read and write all day. For freeing us to drink with impunity a toast to no punishment replaces Amen. The prayer is swallowed away for the silence and the quiet carving serene after the was screaming, a little violent, but turkey nevertheless.
Track 1:
[2:08] Welcome, music lovers. Long Slice Brewery presents Discovering Downey.
Track 2:
[2:16] Hey, it's J.D. here and welcome back to Discovering Downey. This is an 11-part opus with a focus on Mr. Gord Downey, the late frontman of the Tragically Hip, but somebody who also gave to the world an extensive solo discography. Eight records in total. But have you heard them? That was what I sought out when I enlisted my friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk to discover Downey. These three are giant Tragically Hip fans, but they had little to no exposure with Gord's solo oeuvre. So every week, we get together and listen to one of the records in chronological order and see what we think. Did we miss out? Or did we make the right choice? We're going to find out on Discovering Downey. This week, we're going to dive into Gord's third solo release. This, with The Country of Miracles, it is the grand bounce. Now let's go to the team.
Track 1:
[3:27] Justin St. Louis, how are you doing this week? Week i'm worn out man and uh i'm ready for this thing to to take over my life tonight and just be back in the normal and enjoy the music and enjoy talking about it with you guys love it yeah kirk where are you headed off to next yeah actually heading off to the big apple nyc i'm uh going to be chaperoning my uh my youngest and they're going to be performing at carnegie so very proud pops Pops. And, uh, we just got back from a really cool trip in Memphis and Nashville and they did really, you know, they did fantastic there. So I've been surrounded by music and, um, that's inspired me, but I'm gonna, you know, concur with Justin and say, I'm definitely looking forward to a discussion about this album. I mean, uh, it's been a pretty cool journey so far, but this, I think this is gonna, this album is going to spark a pretty good conversation in my opinion. So, but doing well and looking forward to traveling again. It'll be interesting for sure. Craig, how are things on the left coast, motherfucker?
Track 1:
[4:36] Not too bad. Just got back from a family trip to Disneyland that was six years in the making. We tried it, you know, in 2020 and it didn't work out. And so we finally made it down with the kids and spent a few days in LA at the end of the trip and was lucky enough to have Kirk from Chino drive all the way out to LAX and we hooked up for.
Track 1:
[4:59] Little conversation and yeah, it was cool. It was a good time. Yeah. So first time meeting in person, which was a great night. It was really cool. Yep. No, it worked out actually great. I just got back from that trip with a choir that I'd mentioned and then, uh, hadn't seen my mom in a bit and she was actually staying, um, uh, doing some pet sitting at a house in garden Grove that had some good memories. So it kind of was a half, half the distance to LAX. So it worked out perfect to go and meet you and and i appreciated uh appreciated you giving up some time from your family for a little bit to have a good conversation so and i know it'll carry over tonight well this week on discovering downey we're here to discuss and dissect the june 2010 released from gord and his band the country of miracles consisting of the usual suspects canadian musicians oh.
Track 2:
[5:48] Man i'm gonna butcher this julie duaron right is that right yeah so she's on vocals guitar and bass then there is gourd's frequent collaborator josh finlayson.
Track 1:
[6:02] Dale morningstar on lead guitar dave clark on drums and dr p on keyboards chris walla a former member of death cab for cutie turned the knobs on this release but where do you start with the grand bounce it's been seven years and three albums since Gord's last outing, and The Country of Miracles sounds as though they've been chomping at the bit to jam with Gord yet again. This album, to me, is a band album as much as it is a Gord solo affair. As a result, it sounds more cohesive than the previous two releases. While it rarely reaches the heights of Battle of the Nudes, it is a remarkably consistent effort. It's worth noting that the songs on The Grand Bounce seem more structured and maybe even more thought out as three to four minute rock songs that are reminiscent of Gord's day job, The Tragically Hip. There's an energy on this record that's palpable. Perhaps it's the shorthand of working with the same band for three consecutive records?
Track 2:
[6:58] I'm not sure, but it's there. Now, once we get into the songs on this 50 minute, 13 song opus.
Track 1:
[7:06] It's tough not to get caught up in the sonic presence that Walla brings to the table. There's a depth to the maturity, And I'll use the term again, a cohesiveness that wasn't as pronounced on the prior two efforts. While the grand bounce is a perfectly fine listen, it's only after letting it grow on you. For me, it sat growing on me since I did the fully and completely podcast. And that to me is when it shows its real prowess, creating earworms and hooks that reel you in and invite you over for dinner just to hang out with the music.
Track 1:
[7:40] But what do our friends Craig, Justin, and Kirk have to say about the Grand Bounce? Let's not waste any more time and get right to them. Kirk from Chino, talk to me about your first experience with the Grand Bounce. Yeah, well, after we had finished up talking about Battle of the Nudes, I had had some travel for work, and then I was getting some other stuff ready for a very busy week. So I didn't get to jump on to a listen right away. I mean, it was a number of days. But I was doing a walk at night and, you know, cool walk with the dog and had it in my AirPods. And just right away, I was really taken by it. I really felt the maturity of it, you know, very reminiscent of what you had mentioned, JD, in your lead up to, you know, the discussion about the album is it just had a maturity to it. The band, it felt like a band album, exactly what you said. and I, as much as I loved the first two albums, I just felt a comfort. Like the whole time I've listened to this album, which is, I don't know, maybe 15, 20 times at this point, it just, it's a warm blanket to me. It's like, it now is okay.
Track 1:
[8:57] It's okay, I can like Gord Downie as a solo artist. You know, I just had a great experience with it. I really, really loved it. I could spend a lot of time talking, but I want to hear what the other guys have to say about it. Well, Craig, what do you think? Yeah, this was really a grower for me. I wasn't sure when I first put this on. I didn't think I would like it as much as I do. And overall, I really love this album. I have maybe a couple of critiques, which we'll get to later. Later but my my journey with this album actually goes back to 2015 when you may remember jd that we had a bunch of target stores open in canada in whenever 2010 maybe and they only lasted about four or five years and they went went under and when they were closing down they had cds on sale for five dollars you can get any it could get any cd and i happened upon the grand balance and And actually the next album we'll be doing next week and pick those both up for five bucks. And they sat on open for many years and I just opened them for this podcast. So I I'm lucky enough to have an actual podcast.
Track 1:
[10:05] Physical copy and the liner notes that came in them so i may be able to offer a few little nuggets um one i would just want to mention off the top chris walla is actually mentioned as a member when it says the country of miracles are and it lists all the members plus him so i believe he was playing guitar on wow much of the album wow very cool some of those videos he was playing so that i'm not surprised by that and i love that thank you for sharing because this is actually the only album that I couldn't get. I tried to get vinyl of everything, but I don't have a CD. So everything has been streaming or online.
Track 1:
[10:41] And I watched several videos with interviews and he talked specifically about the inlet, the vocal or the lyrics. And you just showed a picture of it, Craig, and it's not the standard sizing that you normally get. So I appreciate you sharing that. That was pretty cool. And I think also what I learned with this album is again, just to trust Trust, you know, Gord, you know, you may not like it right away, but give this album a good listen if you haven't before. It took longer to grow on me than the other two, but highly recommended. Yeah i think a good strategy with this record is to listen the fuck out of it for like two or three days and then put it on the shelf for a week and then pick it up and there's something like kirk was saying that's comforting about it you come back to it and you're like whoa this is really fucking way more hooky than i imagined when i first listened to it but let's uh talk to our friend mr st louis what do you say on the matter of discovering downey v the grand bounce So I also had the word warmth written down, and I did take your strategy, JD, of I listened to it probably 10 times. I started immediately after recording our last episode, which is how I had done the previous. I was like, okay, this is not Battle of the Nudes.
Track 1:
[12:04] And I immediately heard what I thought was Bob rock sound. But then I realized this isn't Bob rock sound and neither were those other two albums. This is the era that Gord was in with the hip and all of the Bob rock haters probably owe him an apology because this is the type of stuff that Gord was writing at that time. And so it did feel familiar and it did feel comforting and it did feel warm and I liked it. I also, you know, during this time, um, when the album came out i was listening to kings of leon and mumford and sons and stuff like that and there's a lot of that in this in this sound and i you know i was a uh death cab for cutie fan at the time and you know postal service and all that stuff i mean so it was very contemporary for for when it came out and it felt like it belonged in that 2010 range but.
Track 1:
[12:58] For me, it was a big letdown after Battle of the Nudes, because that album was so damn good. And because we didn't have seven years between recording these episodes for our musical tastes to change, it was like, whoa, this is a massive shift from what we had just digested into this new album. I don't hate it, but I don't think I love it.
Track 1:
[13:20] Wow. Yeah. I don't see it as such a massive shift. It's going to be interesting as we get into the track by track. Should we do that now, gentlemen? Let's go for it. Let's do it. Okay, the first track on the record is a great one for me in the sense that winter has ended. But when I think about winter, I think about that. I think about Gord standing on the edge of Riverdale Park and having somebody discuss this east wind with him, this strong east wind that blows in and is very cold. And we're going to hear from Craig first on this one. So, Craig, what do you think of the east wind? This is the one song off the album I was familiar with. I had seen maybe a video, I'd heard it quite a few times, and I love it. I think it's a great opener. I want to point something out really quickly that you guys wouldn't necessarily know without the liner notes, but there are Roman numerals, one through four, throughout the album. And at first I thought maybe it was to do with the record I thought maybe the four-sided record which it is, I looked it up but the.
Track 1:
[14:29] There's three songs per side on the records, and it doesn't quite jive with the numbers in the booklet. So what I think is, I've come up with a little story around, this isn't a concept album by any means, but it's definitely got a story to it. And so I've actually listed what I think the story is about, and I think section one is about a move. And so you've probably done the research too and and gourd at the time was moving up to glenora on the um on the great one of the great lakes so this this first section i think all the songs kind of relate to moving uh the east wind maybe not as much but also interestingly enough the east wind is the only song that doesn't have lyrics printed out in the booklet and i'm not really sure why that would be what yeah so there's a quote at the top it does say the the quote about the east wind is the laziest wind, but right under that is track two. And if you saw some of the video research or YouTube, he talked about it was a neighbor who was a farmer who was describing the east wind, the laziest wind.
Track 1:
[15:40] So I found that very interesting, Craig, when you proposed the theory of the story. Because I could think to several of the different interviews and different discussions about different songs and how he's definitely pinpointing some real life things that are happening. Like you mentioned the move and, and, uh, obviously some discussions about relationships and, and then he's got his kids involved in some of these songs too. So you may be onto something, my friend. Another theory theory I have is that maybe this song is meant to be like a little bit of an introduction sort of before the story starts. And maybe that's why it didn't have the lyrics in here or maybe it's a misprint who knows, but the song itself musically is, is great. Uh, very much a band jamming again, like we're used to from the previous two albums, but just more layering, more production.
Track 1:
[16:30] I really love how the guitars are layered. From my count, there's five guitar players on this track, including one who I couldn't find any mention of anywhere on the internet. Someone named Edgar Lewis played guitar, and I believe he plays the guitar at the end, the little guitar melody, the sort of New Order style melody at the end. I couldn't find anything about who he might be. The name Edgar, of course, made me think of Gord's middle name. So not sure if there's a connection there. But yeah, I could not track this person down online. Anybody out there knows who Edgar, what his name is? I apologize. What's his name again? Edgar Lewis or Louie.
Track 1:
[17:10] Edgar Louie. If you know who Edgar Louie is, shoot us an email at discoveringdowneyatgmail.com. I wonder if he's an acquaintance of Chris Swala. Possibly. Although they did record in Kingston, so it would have been quite the trip for one little guitar melody. But yeah, maybe he was someone working in the studio. Maybe he's a friend of the band or who knows. But yeah, the Chris Walla production is very noticeable on this song. The way things are, you know, I think Gord even mentions in an interview, he just keeps layering things every few bars and very evident. The drums are a good example of this in the song. They come in kind of lightly, but they're still pretty intense. And then the toms come in, and you've got that really almost tribal beat for the first few bars once the whole band kicks in. And then you get just sort of a regular beat. But it's always driving forward. There's always momentum with the drums. It's always picking up momentum right through the end of the song and really strong playing all together. Such a solid song. I think the second part of that build, when I first heard it, was like, oh, this is sort of like maybe some of the tone that was on Battle of the Newts, where it was kind of subdued and subdued.
Track 1:
[18:31] Just there. And then there's this massive sound, which really works. I do love the song a lot. And I believe you that there's five guitars in it. Um, cause if you have earbuds in and turn it up, you, you feel it. Yeah. And while the chords are quite simple, when you really listen, there's actually a lot going on, even with Gord's guitar. And I feel like on this album, he has matured as a player. You can tell, you know, he's got another seven years of experience and we never did really talk about on the previous episodes his guitar playing but when he first started playing guitar in the hip it was a bizarre thing to watch his strumming patterns it was so awkward to watch him as a guitar player and i'm not even sure he was really too much in the mix back in the early days but he has grown so much as a guitar player he's playing a lot in open tunings i believe i've read that open c was his favorite so i think a lot of the songs on this album or an open C. I noticed in the videos he was playing a Tele for much of this session rather than acoustic.
Track 1:
[19:33] And yeah, there is a lot of subtleties to the guitar playing, even though it's basically two chords through the whole song. I was going to mention, Craig, and we've all obviously did our research and saw the YouTube, but the bathhouse sessions when they were recording. And, and I'm honestly, it's like, it's a question to this group. They, they were all isolated, but they were all playing live. And you had mentioned how much he was playing guitar. And in the, that little six part series, I loved how Gord was so committed to playing guitar, as you had mentioned. Like there was typically when you're recording an album like you want to do the the vocal and the guitar separately and he was nope i'm going to do it together because the guitar strumming was creating some of the cadence of the vocals and and i loved how or i felt like that was demonstrated there so i think that's a great point that you brought up craig that he was really focused on that playing yeah that makes this album easier to sing to we had mentioned whether i don't remember if it was on air or off air, but we had all had trouble singing along with the first two albums. And this one is much more poppy and rhythm driven. And I think you're absolutely right, Kirk, that him playing the guitar as he sings and it's in every take really kind of made that happen. I also did notice if you, it's really low in the mix, but when this track first starts, somebody says, no more takes.
Track 1:
[21:01] Like, we have to do it this time, you know? I really, I picked up on that and I enjoyed it, especially after watching that six part series. I'm gonna jump on your story theme, Craig, and Moon Over Glenora.
Track 1:
[21:14] The next song on the album.
Track 1:
[24:18] I absolutely love this song right and he talks about the ferry ride and that really goes along when you think of the east wind and being off the lake and then now talking about the ferry, uh justin what'd you think about this song oh man this song solidified my crush on julie this is, such a great track and the duet through every word and then the live performances of this song that i I was able to find on the, on the hips now for plan a record, there's one lyric that's, we don't want to do it. We want to be it talking about the music and they are absolutely the music while they're playing the song. And it's just a lot of fun. And it's like a, it's like going to a club show, which it probably was. I really did love the song. And for me, the ferry ride across Lake Champlain is just a part of life here when you're going over to New York and it just, just talking about the spotlight, finding the ice in the water. I've been on that ferry and the song is really, I think, about two people falling in love, not knowing that they're falling in love. And they're kind of bickering and arguing about it. And they get outside in the ferry and it's cold and it's terrible and you got to stay warm, so let's complain about something.
Track 1:
[25:29] And they talk about the wolf and they've killed the wolf by the end of the ferry ride. You know um it's the the imagery is really cool and the dead lake right isn't that the last the ocean is dead the ocean is dead yeah yeah it's a great little song i really do love it but i think the star is julie and this really she's fantastic yeah i uh story-wise i actually had almost the opposite thought to me it was maybe um a couple falling out of love and maybe this is the the cracks are starting to show. Like maybe it's not totally fractured yet. And again, I'm not saying that this is about Gord or, you know, I don't know too much about his personal life, but I do know parts of this are inspired obviously by true events, you know, the move to Glenora. Did anyone watch the interview with Gord with Kim Mitchell? If you guys even know who that is? Yeah, I did. Do you know who he is?
Track 1:
[26:26] Well i had to look it up i didn't know who he was immediately and i got confused because it was that little two-part interview and he had mentioned something about being and i think like saint paul minnesota and it threw me off because it said toronto but then in the second part they they confirmed they were talking in toronto um the one thing sorry and i hopefully i don't derail your thought but the one thing that i loved on that particular interview is the reverence that gordon had for that particular guy so i definitely had to look him up you know to see the songs that he was involved with and and he was uh you know as he mentioned in that he's a hero so sorry go ahead i just wanted to bring him up because he's a you know a classic canadian artist i'm wearing my my cancon shirt here and uh he was definitely a a big part of you know the music scene here in in the 80s and 90s i guess i brought it up because um this was a song that he mentioned really loving that you know kim really loved it also i found it really interesting I'd never heard this before, but Gord references a song that the two of them wrote together.
Track 1:
[27:29] And by the sounds of it, it's a song that was never released. So it sounds like Kim Mitchell had a song he wrote and then Gord wrote the words too. And so there may be an unreleased song out there, or maybe if a listener's heard this or has any idea how to track this down, I'd love to hear it. So that was my only thing I wanted to add. Oh, and also Dale does some really really cool guitar, little shots on, on this sort of beat two and four. And then he does these little muted scrub scrubs. I'm not even sure how to.
Track 1:
[27:58] How to put in words what that sound is i'm you know what i mean kind of like a pick almost like a pick slide into the the bends i mean i don't know it it's almost it's a it's a technique it's not it's a rhythmic pattern that he's doing yeah and with with some notes in there but they're sort of muted but anyways i thought that added some nice accent but i agree with with you justin that julie really steals the show on this one it's such a good song on many of the songs on this album that combination of voice, to me, that was what I had mentioned earlier about how much I enjoyed this album, is when you feel that the band is now a band and you feel that connection. But we are so used to hearing Gord as part of the hip and that amazing combination of vocals that he has, you know, with Paul and then obviously with the guitar phrasing and how the hip is the hip and you can hear that. And I think with the vocals that he has with her on many of these albums, but especially on this particular album and several of these songs, to me, that really solidified like, okay, this is a great combination of musicians that are doing fantastic things. So I so appreciated this song.
Track 1:
[29:19] Another, Gord has that ability to do like an upbeat rhythm and kind of like Pascal's Submarine that we talked about in the last album, where it's kind of a dark subject, but it's a very upbeat song. So I really felt that with this particular song. I couldn't help but think, as he said, the ocean is, as they were repeating, the ocean is dead at the end. I was just thinking about all the water songs that Gord has and how water must be his Roman empire. There are a couple things that come up on this album over and over. Water is one, color is another.
Track 1:
[29:57] Um, and day and night is a third thing. There was a fourth, I can't remember right now, but there was some definite themes through the entire album. Kirk, what did you think when you first heard as a mover? What I loved specifically about as a mover is the buildup. I think Justin may have referenced in, in some of the, those interviews where, um, how the production was every four bars, you got to get something new. So this really was uh okay you know you get the train feeling that's going on it's that moving it's the transformation it's the sorry not transformation but him him relocating to glenora as we'd mentioned now we're going into this as a mover and you know this these lyrics not just specifically for this song but for for this all album and i think in one of our messages together.
Track 1:
[30:53] It was hard to pin down some connections on some of these there there are some that are that are there but I agree with that that that guidance on that so as a mover to me loved it you know the sarcasm hey baby want to kiss closes it out with that that that particular theme and it's It's a driving, great rhythmic song. Another thing that was clear in my memory in some of the interviews that we got to see was he was so excited about this album in that it was genre-less, right? You can't just say it's a country album. You can't just say it's a pop album. You can't just say it's a jazz album. It has a little bit of everything. And he even talked about touring for this particular album, that they were doing a bunch of festivals and that they were jazz festival, a pop festival, a rock festival. It was different. So he was pretty proud of that fact. And I got that feeling with that as a mover. Justin, what was your take on the song? So I found a note somewhere that when Gord was writing this album, he was reading a book about Custer. And the title of the album, The Grand Bounce refers to a phrase that was coined during the Custer's involvement, whatever, in the 1860s. Whenever they deserted the cavalry, they called it the Grand Bounce. And desertion and moving and all this stuff really tie in together and –.
Track 1:
[32:22] This song is kind of what really sparked my thinking about that. Like, you know, this is, there's something happening here and yes, the, the train, you feel like you're on a train as soon as the song starts. And, um, it's definitely a different sound. This song is way different than anything that Gord had put out previously. And I know, again, I, it, it kind of rubbed me the wrong way a little bit. I mean, I've, I've come into all this with an open mind, but it was like, what is he trying to do here? It didn't, the production of this album, And the sound of the songs just did not match up with the first two albums. And this doesn't even match up with anything else that's on this album. And my first reaction was, is he trying too hard with this song to sound different? But it certainly has grown on me. But the theme of moving and desertion and the grand bounce itself, this song tied the album title together for me. Craig, what do you think? In the lyrics, you've got the wife, you know, not wanting to move and you've got the kids wanting to move all that, you know, wanting to go everywhere. And he says he's in the middle, he's got no opinion. So I kind of like that tension in here. I also love the line where he rhymes pressure and less sure. Oh, and he does it in this low register the second time through?
Track 1:
[33:44] I'm even less sure. And when he says it, he's almost talking it. It's so great. Yeah. And I know I mentioned to you guys in text that when I first heard this song, I was not a fan.
Track 1:
[33:58] And JD, you were a bit surprised by that. And then it just grew and grew and grew on me. Like more than any other song on the album. I love the song now. I really was not a fan at first. Just love the whole feel of it. And the little drum shuffle with the brushes. And i think what i didn't like at first was just the chorus there was something weird about just those words as a mover it's just not very smooth sounding it doesn't roll off yeah and so that that kind of bothered me at first but really it's whatever feelings i had about it have totally changed now i think it's totally yeah it's a really cool song i was with you that you know At first, I just didn't like it. But then I remembered the song is now 14 years old. And when it came out, I was listening to Mumford & Sons and I was into that sound. And this could be on one of their albums.
Track 1:
[34:50] And I had to force myself to transport back to that time period. And I would have loved the song back then. And also the, you know, the title as a, as a mover, it made me think like a double meaning could be like a mover is also a dancer. And the next song we have is the dance and its disappearance. And this was another song that I didn't love at first. It's still not one of my favorites on the album, but once I read the lyrics, once I got into the CD booklet and started trying to figure out what it was about, I started to appreciate it a lot more. And so I just want to read you this quick quote in the booklet. There's a quote from Crystal Pite, who I believe is a dancer. And she writes.
Track 1:
[35:38] It is an extreme expression of the present, a perfect metaphor for life. And it goes on. Once I kind of got what that phrase meant, it just started making sense. And when you watch the live videos of this song, every single performance of this, Gord has something to say about people in the audience with their cell phones. And he's very appreciative when there's not too many people with their cell phones. And he talks about, if you're filming this on a cell phone, you're getting 10% of the experience. Put it away.
Track 1:
[36:08] And there was one show in Victoria and I wrote down what he said. He says, you like that things disappear as they're happening. I don't see any phones in the air trying to capture 10%. Your brain can handle it. Let it resonate. Let it sink in. Wait till tomorrow, the day after, it'll be all right. Yeah. And I love that message. Yeah, me too.
Track 1:
[36:26] Fuck. Kirk? This song, when I first heard it, and we've had this discussion on some of the other albums, You know, can this be a hip song? And that opening little riff on this particular song was very hip-like. And there was another interview that I had looked up, I think Alan Cross was his name. And he had even had mentioned that on this particular, he wrote simply a hip-like song. So I think that was one thing that I appreciated is there was not any fear anymore. Like, it's okay because I am the guy who writes the stuff for the hip. So there's going to be songs that sound hip like, and I think he embraced it. But I think that I, the thing that I loved about this, and as I mentioned on the other songs and you guys as well is the, the harmonies with, with, with Julie on this, like that's okay. This is Gord Downie. This is that sound where with the hip it's, this is what I sound like when I sing with Paul or whoever's doing the backup. And I believe that he really captured that in this album, but that song as well. So that was one thing that I noted in my research on this particular song. I think this is my favorite tune on the record.
Track 1:
[37:41] Gord had that theme, let it disappear into the night and let it happen, use it up. That is a decades-long theme in whatever he's done, and I love the message. I also love the word a squirrel. Holy crap. What a great way to convey that you can't settle down. My mind a squirrel. Holy crap. Did anyone else look up Sudbury yellow? Speaking of colors, I mentioned earlier that color is a huge theme throughout the whole thing. Also tying into the cover art, which was actually a painting by Gord Downie himself. So I think art was much on his mind during the recording of this album. And there is different mentions of colours in so many different songs. So Sudbury Yellow references the colour of the staircase at Sudbury Hall in England. And when you look up a picture of it, it's a very striking yellow. It's actually pretty neat to look up. And also another great So he rhymes the word orange with door hinge. Yeah. Blood orange with door hinge. Yeah. That's great. And I did notice the color theme throughout this and, and art is again, a decades long theme with, with Gordon. And there are many more examples through and we'll get to that.
Track 1:
[38:57] Well, let's stick with you, Justin, and move forward to The Hard Canadian. When I think of this song, I always, I can close my eyes and I picture, this is going to be lost on the two Americans, I apologize, but I picture Relic from The Beachcombers as The Hard Canadian.
Track 1:
[39:16] Beachcombers was a CBC show based in the West Coast, and there were some hard-living fishermen type, and there was one character who was sort of a scoundrel, and his name was Relic, And he just looked like a hard Canadian. He looks like the lyrics to this song. But Justin, what do you think of the hard Canadian?
Track 1:
[39:34] So I had two trains of thought on this. And one was that I thought Gord might have been singing about himself and just the fuck you today kind of thing. But I also thought it was about the weather, maybe in the winter. And go out to the plains and it's brutal out there. And the hard Canadian weather doesn't care about you. You know, and yeah, so the hard Canadian in my weather theory is the hard Canadian don't give a damn about you. What's a windswept face to the elusive presence of the sun to the hard Canadian? Like, you know, it's winter all the time in some places. It's dark all the time in some places, you know, north of 60, right? And it's the line, whether he's just mean or willfully dense, like the weather is controlling itself. self. It was like Mother Nature or whatever is doing this on purpose to test you. Let's see if you come out the other side. Again, the art theme, there's the quote, and it's in quotations from life nothing to death nothing, refers to a piece of art by Frank Stella, which is, forgive my Spanish here, but de la nada vida a la nada muerte. Is that how you'd say it? But that's what it translates to, from life nothing to death nothing. And it's this massive piece of art that's It's very 1965 looking and it's just another theme in there. And I don't know how it ties in other than it's a.
Track 1:
[40:59] You know, foreboding dark quote. That's just my, I don't know. That's my interpretation of it. But you know, Gord obviously was going through some stuff too. And, and it, it felt like this was almost a third person narrative of a first person point of view. There was two songs on the album that I'm familiar with. The hard Canadian is the first time I heard it. I had definitely had heard it before, but had not, you know, process that it was not a hip song. I think I thought it was like a deep cut hip song or something when I heard it years ago. But the other one is, and I know we'll talk about it, The Night Is Forgetting.
Track 1:
[41:36] He would sing it when he would do hip songs. He would sing some of his gourd songs. So when I read that story or heard about that story, I'm like, I know I've heard that song before when they played out here in LA or whatever. So, but anyway, the hard Canadian, what he had mentioned was it was Mike, Mike Clattenberg trailer park boys. That's that, that's it's one of the series that I haven't watched. I've watched letter Kenny and I've watched, you know, several other Canadian, but I have not watched the trailer park boys. And he had mentioned that it was one of the guys I guess is one of the creators and he's like yeah I got this new thing and it's hard Canadian it's dope and and so when I'd heard that description I immediately thought of like if you guys are familiar with letter Kenny like Wayne is he's hard Canadian it's just gonna smoke a you know go out and smoke and have a puppers have a dart yeah having a dart exactly so that that was the imagery that I got from it I want to point out that this is the first song in section number two lyrically in the lyric booklet.
Track 1:
[42:39] And I just noticed that there's a quote here from Walter von Tilburg Clark, night is like a room. It makes the little things in your head too important. And I just realized that's the second verse of the East wind. And then I glanced forward section three has the lyric from the third verse. So the lyrics from the East wind are in here, but they're, they're heading each sections. And so in my mind, and they're quotes from other authors. Is that what it is? Yeah. It was, um, he said that song was made up of the East wind I'm talking about was made up of quote, like three quotes that he, that he loved. And I had seen that somewhere. Yes. And so the hard Canadian to me is like what JD said, like I'm picturing like a relic type. I had a baseball coach when I was a kid who he's this older guy and he always had like this about one inch left of a, of a homemade smoke. And, uh, and that, that line where he says, takes a puff of puff of nothing and pick something from his tongue. Like I just picture Mr. Heller, my baseball coach who, you know, for four years, you know, first 10 minutes of practice, you don't wear a glove. You're, you're passing the baseball just with bare hands and, and just thinking back to those, those times, there was another line that I want to bring up the silences.
Track 1:
[43:55] He don't listen to them. Do you think that's a reference to Pascal? Maybe that's interesting. Uh, I hadn't thought that, But because I'm thinking now my mind is a squirrel and I, I'm almost thinking this is about, you know, that, that, you know, rural Canadian, um, you know, like a relic type. And in my mind, Gord is trying to say maybe that, that there's more, more to that person than, than maybe meets the eye. I don't be so quick to judge when he says he, he blurs the image, drags his brush through the wet pigment. To me that line saying you know don't be so quick to judge the hard canadian well right at the end he mentions remembering someone too and that's absolutely you know makes sense and i know a lot of hard frenchmen that are from quebec that have been through hell and you get down to it and they're just you know beautiful soft men inside but you got to get through seven layers of onion to get there.
Track 1:
[44:56] And that really ties perfectly into the next song, which is Gone.
Track 1:
[48:41] Because it has a very similar story behind it, which I'll get into it a little bit. But Kirk, what were your thoughts on Gone? Yeah, no, I love that you actually had mentioned that you're going to get into more of the meaning of it. Because I have some thoughts and ideas, but what I really wanted to talk about on this particular one, from the musician side, that I absolutely loved about it is – I'll give the note that I wrote. And I can't remember exactly who it was that mentioned it to Gord, but he said it sounded like a moose in the distance.
Track 1:
[49:16] And when you listen to this tune, which is a beautiful tune, another great example of the harmonies, it's another one where you just hear the range of Gord's vocals that are just phenomenal and how he can cover the spectrum with that. But the fact that Dale Morningstar was using a theremin and had several different layers of the theremin recorded on that and you hear it. And then when you get confirmation of it, you go back and listen to it and you go, oh, wow. Right. Because there's only a few songs out there that we all know and love that have the theremin. Right. There's only what the Beach Boys and Led Zeppelin or the, you know, have have really pulled it off. So it's cool to see them jump out from a musician standpoint, musicianship standpoint.
Track 1:
[50:05] The other thing that I wanted to mention before, and I definitely want to hear Craig's thoughts on the meaning of it, was that Gord had mentioned in one of his interviews that this and I think The Night Is Forgetting, he called it the grandma and the grandpa. So he'd had these songs for a long time and he'd matured with them. And so I think that that anticipation of so much time between the two albums, but then having songs that came, you know, at different points along the way. And I just felt like this one had, it had marinated and it was, what was presented was what had, he had settled on, because I think that happens anyone who's done music creation. You're, you write it with a thought, a producer takes a look at it, an engineer takes a look at it, the rest of the band, and it becomes something different.
Track 1:
[50:55] Anyway, Craig, your thoughts on some of the meaning behind it. In the booklet, there's a quote from a Polish writer named Bruno Schultz. And it says, He had not been rooted in any woman's heart. He could not merge with any reality and was therefore condemned to float eternally on the periphery of life in half real regions on the margins of existence. And apparently this was in reference to his own father. So again, coming out of the last song, it seems to kind of tie into that idea of, at the end of The Hard Canadian, where there's someone he was remembering. So this idea of, there's actually the lyric in the song, gone and feeling half real on the edge of your life. And that ties directly to that quote. quote musically the bridge that there's a building bridge with uh julie singing backup and.
Track 1:
[51:48] Really really great songwriting and this was another song that really grew on me it's just such a catchy kind of fun fun song uh justin what did you think no i loved it right from the beginning it yeah it builds and it starts really slow and then it gets really slow again in the middle and it's quiet. I didn't dive too deeply into the lyrics, but there's definitely, you know, this is a life story kind of thing. And maybe at the end of it. Yeah. I just, I really love the way the song made me feel and that's only surface deep, but sometimes that's all you need in a song. And I don't know, I could listen to this one over and over. And I have. Okay. Kirk, how about the drowning machine? What are your thoughts there? I think we have another nautical disaster, could we call it, on this next song? Yeah, yeah. Through Drowning Machine. Drowning Machine. Until I actually looked it up, I didn't really know what it was talking about. But apparently, the Drowning Machine is like a common name for a weir, which is a low head dam, which if you've seen pictures of them, basically what happens is the water just cycles. And just if you get if you end up going over one of these dams you're.
Track 1:
[53:02] Pretty much not getting out and so gourd had apparently read a story about um about some girls being saved from the the bow river in alberta and um there was actually i i kind of looked up this this bow river and there's this this notorious um spot on the river where where i believe it said had 14 deaths in 30 years and they actually had a there one story there was there was actually a boom across so if you if you're totally out of you know if you miss all the signs and you you keep going down you can grab on to this boom at one point a storm had washed it washed it away and so a couple of men died in in i believe 2007 because the the boom had been washed out and so finally they did some construction and they and they have now made it into uh an area called the Harvey, this is called the Harvey passage. And apparently people go there to do white water rafting. And there's actually two kind of, um, passages that go through now two channels, uh, at different levels of, you know, for, for different levels of experience, um, for, for rafters. I had, I had done some research on the, um, Glenora song and there's a very treacherous river that it's like, Hey, don't go there, fly over it.
Track 1:
[54:20] And this reminded me of, reading about that, it reminded me of Niagara Falls, just the immense force of the water at the bottom. And you're not going to get out of there if you go over the falls.
Track 1:
[54:37] We had a deer camp when I was a kid on the Huntington Gorge here in Vermont. And there's a plaque with a list of 30 or so names of all the people that have died in the gorge. And our deer camp was the spot where the state police would fish the bodies out of the river every time there was one that ended up there you know we we couldn't get to the to the camp because they would use the front porch to be their their base of operations oh yeah wild and i i have to say at the end um there is some lead guitar at the end by dale that really at this point in the album when I was, especially on first listen, when I wasn't totally jiving with some of the earlier tracks, this song was the one that immediately I loved, like right off the bat. And hearing that guitar when Dale finally cuts loose and really leans into that dissonance, I felt like, okay, I'm starting to get this. And Kirk, what did you think of this? Yeah, I am fascinated, obviously, with Gord's fascination with water and the nautical side of things. But again, I think this song was just another great example of their time together and how they really... And I don't know if you guys noticed this.
Track 1:
[55:58] I don't think they played this on that six-part one, but I really enjoyed that it wasn't like a monarchy. You know, it wasn't Gord was given direction. It was everyone was involved. And I really loved the different parts that you would see with Chris Swala and his just subtle, nice guy production tips. So, um, I really love that interaction of, of how now that they've been done.
Track 1:
[56:25] A couple albums together and now it had been a little bit. And I also read something about how, yeah, they wanted to definitely get that indie vibe and they definitely wanted to have a variety of different styles of music, but how they also, you know, they're also very accomplished musicians and they've spent some time with some big bands and have played in some pretty, pretty big arena. So they could bring that to the songwriting and, and, and, and the music within this. So, and I really felt that too, moving into Yellow Days, which was the next one.
Track 1:
[1:00:51] I love this tune. This tune to me, and maybe I'm hearing something wrong, but there was almost kind of like a jazz bossa nova, just a real kind of amazing groove to it. And I also loved hearing about the story about Josie Dye, I think was her name. And they had had a passing at a festival way back when, when I think she was a hip fan and he was just walking around and that that that's That's actually part of the lyrics in this particular tune. But I love this song. He talks about it in some of the interviews and the descriptions about just the Canadian summers and how much the Canadians love that summer, but it goes by so quick.
Track 1:
[1:01:36] And so they're really just trying to make the most of every time they have good weather and they have a good moment and also keeping with Craig's color theme, which I love that you brought that up and along with the storytelling that's going on uh you know this is the here we are and and enjoying that summertime and almost reminiscent of them recording this album right for the two weeks i think in august and in 09 so justin did you dig this song yeah because we have the same summer and winter pattern that that you guys would up north today you know inside baseball we're not recording this in the summer when this is coming out we're recording it well before and it was the first warm day this year and I wore shorts and it was only 61 degrees outside. It was very windy. I shouldn't have had shorts on. But you take those moments and you wrap your life around them when you can get them. And 61 felt like 81 today. And I know the Canada gray because we have that here. It's Canada gray. Even as it's warm today, it's Canada gray outside. And just the imagery of it is wonderful. wonderful yeah and i mentioned the earlier the you know the theme of of days and nights so you know that's very obvious here uh and going into the next song and um.
Track 1:
[1:02:53] A couple of things, Kirk, when you were saying, you know, that beat at the start, I had the same thing. I was actually trying last night to figure out what type of beat this really was. The word that came to my mind was Calypso, but then I looked it up and it was not correct. But like this South American, like it's something I've heard. Bossa Nova was what came to my mind. So, you know, Calypso Bossa Nova, it's definitely a Caribbean feel. And, you know, the fact that it's on a Gord album, you know, again, just really talks to, you know, we had your hardcore on the last one and now we're doing Calypso Bossa Nova, you know, jazz type stuff. It's brilliant in my opinion. It reminded me of my grandmother's organ, you know, had those big tab buttons that there's a there's a pre-programmed beat and it's really bad not that the song's bad but on the organ it is yeah kirk your story about the you know everyone you know in this you know having so few.
Track 1:
[1:03:54] Summer days in certain parts of canada it reminds me of back in 96 my band was was in winnipeg we were playing you know this show at a you know the club that all the you know the all the decent bands played at and so we were really excited about playing this this club and uh it was on a weekend we thought like this is great and it turns out it was the the long weekend in august and everyone in town leaves for the for the lakes and there was nobody in town like not just for our show but anywhere it was just bizarre so those are the the yellow days of winnipeg well let's Let's continue on with you, Craig. Keep this wagon wheel going and talk about Night is Forgetting, which is a great title. Yeah. So, so again, the day, day and night theme and we go from yellow days and tonight is forgetting.
Track 1:
[1:04:46] And it was really bugging me this song because I'm like, I know that I know this song and I couldn't figure it out. And then I felt so stupid a week ago when I actually looked in my, on my phone and I had the hip version of this, which is from about, I think 2005, it was just a single. As far as I know, it was just released out of nowhere. It was, uh, I think it was left over from in between evolution. Okay. So, so I did have it. So I definitely been listening to it, you know, in the past, but it never was a song that, that interested me very much. So this one again, grew on me. I think I prefer this version now. It's, it's a little more upbeat. I love the piano. So, so shout out to Dr. P, John Press, who I don't think we mentioned last, last episode, but he is such a great player. I actually looked him up last night. I couldn't find too much about him online.
Track 1:
[1:05:38] And he is so tasteful. He never overplays until this is like, it was almost like someone said to me, you know, just, just let loose. And you can actually see, I'm sure you guys saw on the, on the bathhouse videos, you can see him rehearsing this on his own, kind of coming up with a part and man, he nails those, those runs. It's very impressive. It's so good. So I wrote, or I heard, and I could have definitely stole it, but I heard piano flurries. And that's exactly what it sounds like as a piano flurry when it starts driving. That's exactly what my note says. Yeah, piano flurries. And the one line that stuck out with me or to me was the dew drops on the luminous veil. And I know he mentioned this in the Alan Cross interview and the luminous veil being the suicide barriers they put up on the Bloor Street street viaduct in Toronto. I guess it was a place where there was just mass amounts of suicides, just 500 suicides and they finally put up this barrier.
Track 1:
[1:06:41] It's a 10 minute walk from my house, the Luminous Vale. When you guys come here, I'll show you the Luminous Vale. At night, it's very pretty, but in sort of a, I don't even know, like an eerie way because Because the sections that hold the guy wires up all look like crosses. Yeah, it's heavy, man. And so my last thing about this song, in one of the interviews, Gord, he mentions that he read a quote from, I believe, Thomas Jefferson saying something about war is forgetting another country's resources.
Track 1:
[1:07:19] And he said, I just replaced war with night. On the hip version of this, he actually does sing war is forgetting in the last chorus. us. So he changes that for this version. But I was actually looking up quotes from Jefferson last night. I didn't find anything that resembled such an idea. So if any listeners know what he was referencing here, I'd love to hear from you. So when Gord passed, there was an interview on some news, whatever, with Ron McLean from the CBC, or I don't know if he's the CBC anymore, more, but I knew him from Hockey Night in Canada growing up. And what I think was a quote that Gord said, but I've never been able to find it attributed to Gord, was, night takes the chances, day the reward. I love that quote. And he wrote an op-ed about Gord's passing that included that line as well. And it's just a beautiful line. And I sort of.
Track 1:
[1:08:19] Think of myself with my work that way. I sleep three hours a night just because that's how my body works. And I'm up till one in the morning and then I get up at 5.30. But I also love that forgetting and forgetting are really just a great sound in the song that can be interpreted in any possible way. Yes, I love that part of it. And as I mentioned earlier, this was one of the songs that I know I had heard before. And honestly, until I just recently had either read or heard that it was a hip song or that it was used on a couple of hip shows, I feel 100% positive that one of the shows that I saw, they played this. I haven't gone back and look at all the set list yet, but I feel pretty confident of that. So yeah. But just love the musicality of the song. I mean, that's the only thing I would add is just the musicality is insane. I have created this little thing that I've called Gord's Annunciation Era, where he's got a section of his career with a hip where he absolutely nails every letter in every word. And think of the lonely end of the rink, and it's a very hard – and this song is a great example of that. You know he says every letter in every word in every phrase and it's just a it's very distinct this this section of maybe eight or ten years of his career whether it's with the hip or solo.
Track 1:
[1:09:46] And I just love how he really makes his body be an instrument with words. And also the line, he says, weird undercurrent, we're undercurrent. And again, another reference to water in a way, but just thought that was a neat little turn of phrase there. Yeah, he's so good at that. And he changes just little tiny tweaks throughout this album in many different songs with words and lyrics and how he, it sounds the same on first two or three listens. And then you realize, oh no, this is a completely different set of words. Christmastime in Toronto, he did that too on the last album. And at the very end of this song, I love how he's singing over and over. Night is forgetting and then forgetting. And then there's one time when they totally phrase it differently. There's pauses.
Track 1:
[1:10:37] Do you know what I mean? I mean, the very last line, I think it is just a neat little, I love songs that have just one little quirk like that. Yes, yes, absolutely. You know what? It really goes back to, I'll be leaving you or I'll be leaving you tonight. I mean, right from the beginning, right? It's just a really cool trick that he's always done. Well, another, one of the other tricks that he's famous for is invoking his children and lullabying them. The next song, Moon Show Your Lashes, to me is just the process of writing some of these lullabies and things about his children. That's what it means to me. Mr. St. Louis, how about you? I took it as his battle with insomnia, you know, which is also a common theme throughout his career.
Track 1:
[1:11:25] And yes, I definitely picked up on the thing. Like, you know, there's a, there's a book that my wife and I love called go the fuck to sleep, you know, talking about your kids, like just give us a break, man. And tonight, in fact, before we recorded, my daughter was taking a bath and she's trying to speak Spanish and she's yelling it and asking my wife questions in the other room in Spanish. And I walked in and Linda looks up at me and whispers, she needs to shut the fuck up. You know, just those moments of give it a rest, kid. But I think that it could be interpreted either way that like, yeah, he's talking about his kids. Like just, okay, relax. We get it. moon slow your lashes.
Track 1:
[1:12:09] But, you know, I think, The way that I took it was more of Gord by the lamp with a notepad trying to come up with the next song and wondering, you know, there's the line, what must he think? And no more, I think he thinks. And kind of judging himself or his work before it's even completed and just not being able to reconcile that. For what it's worth, I love the lyrics in this song. I friggin' hate the tune. I hate this song.
Track 1:
[1:12:39] It's so annoying. And I don't know what it is about it. And it's such an earworm. And it's the one I can't get out of my head. I can't stand the song. Get out of here. Wow. Actually just blown away by what Justin said, because I absolutely love the tune. Me too. And I think it's that 2010s, as you mentioned, you know, like there's such a massive influence from all of them individually as artists, but obviously Death Cab and that influence, but I think what they were listening to at the time. And so I mentioned that I really liked this album. So, you know, there's, there's no real duds on it for me. So, I mean, there's little things of course that I could critique, but to me, this particular album and, and, and even this song like this, this one's really up there. For me you know i'm still trying to decide what's going to be my favorite song from this and it's the first time that i didn't know instantaneously i particularly i enjoyed you know again just how it made me feel it gave me that that just that cool this is where we're at in this this time in music like it was it was it had it has some heavy lyrics but it it's i mean not crazy heavy but it was an upbeat song, I think, overall. So I appreciated it. So there was a story, Gord, in one of the interviews online I found.
Track 1:
[1:14:01] Talks about a radio essay he was listening to by, by someone named Neil McDonald. And he was talking about a woman who would go up to a place called high level Alberta. So when they, when he says high level in the, in the book, in, in, in the song, I had noticed in the booklet, it was capitalized. So it actually is a place up in Northern Alberta. And this woman would go up to um, Northern Alberta and, um, make, make some money. You can probably imagine how she's making her money and, and she would do this in order to support her kids. And, uh, and then when she got back to her kids, I just want to want to hold and smell. And another crazy example of how Gord writes these like incredibly upbeat, like you hear it and you fall in love with it because it makes you feel good, but it's dark AF.
Track 1:
[1:14:52] It's just got some real, real, real just black undertones in some of it, but the music just keeps you going. And that line that says, when, not if, after, when I get out of high level, when, not if. Yeah. And forget the, in the bridge, I think it is the forget the hawks, jaguars, the knife lickers and creeps. And yeah, it just really changed my perspective of the song and and yeah that that juxtaposition between the the sort of cute music and the dark lyrics some some more themes of um you know burgundy the color burgundy dance dance so again dance is the the one earlier that i was forgetting when i was talking about themes so themes on this album water you've got day and night you've got color and you've got dance and this song has a couple of those things in it and and to me it was like you know the things we do for our family oh like i like i said i i really love the story in the song and the lyrics and trying to figure out what i think i thought but just the tune i can't do it i don't know why man i'm sorry i'm i'm i'm not totally crazy about this song uh it's not my lead i'm actually we passed by my my least favorite without me saying but but to me um The Hard Canadian is the weak link on this album. To me, it's just a... Oh, wow. Yeah, it's just... I think it's the chord progression has just so been done before. Yeah, I'm not in love with it either. And that's the one song that I was familiar with on this album. This song, I wasn't too much of a fan of at first, but I do really like it now. It has grown on me, especially I think hearing that story. Well, are we ready to jump into Retrace?
Track 1:
[1:20:11] This song, my note, it just says vocally amazing. That's the note I have.
Track 1:
[1:20:18] I'm sure there's an amazing meaning behind the whole song. I really don't care. I just want to hear Gord sing the main line. I retrace my steps. And it just puts me in this amazing, wonderful, just warm place like we talked about in the beginning. And even Gord in some of his interviews talked about how the process and these songs were company to him. And that's what I felt with this retrace, this tune. And again, another great pairing from harmonies and also great build. And also, as we'd mentioned before, where that whole theory of every four bars coming up with something new, the retrace song, it definitely had additions and installations to create this. I just, yeah, maybe I'm dating myself, but I don't know if you guys are familiar with the band, the Smithereens.
Track 1:
[1:21:17] Kind of had a Smithereens vibe to it. Had a Lou Reed vibe to it. I know that there's a connection with Lou Reed that comes from both Gord and I think Kevin Hearn, who's done some keyboard work and will do some. So I have really loved the diversity of this album. And on this particular song, it was kind of Twin Peaks. It's just got that ethereal feel to it. So Justin, what was your thought? This one sounded more like Coke Machine Glow than anything else on this record to me. Yeah.
Track 1:
[1:21:54] Like you said, I don't know what Gord intended with his lyrics in this, but for me, it was the walk of shame after a night out at the bars and going through the snowy basketball court trying to find my car, you know? And I did that a lot, and I ran into some friends once on Church Street in Burlington, and I was clearly wearing last night's clothes, and the guy's like, what are you doing, buddy? And he fed me breakfast, and it was like, I'm retracing my steps, man, you know? But this song also made me think, and I guess, I don't know if it was something that was bouncing around Gord's mind when he wrote this, but it made me think about what's coming forth in The Secret Path. Is this a precursor to Chaney Wenjack, or had he done research, or had he known about that article yet? I mean, I'm sure he had, but I don't know. Chaney Wenjack sort of came into my mind and I haven't heard The Secret Path and I don't know if this fits the theme and it certainly doesn't fit the Walk of Shame theme that I was just talking about. But with everything that Gord does, you can interpret it several ways and that's just one thing that came to my mind. So this is the first song in section four. I kind of missed the start. So section three, just to rewind a little bit, was Yellow Days. So that's the first song in section three and in the booklet, it actually has the, uh, the quote from.
Track 1:
[1:23:17] The third verse of the east wind so no i do not love you hate the word that private tyranny inside a public sound so that third section which which i didn't mention so section two to me is like the breakup section three to me is rediscovering the simple things in life in section four here to me it's like amends like this is like the beginning where he's being introspective in the song and he's like realizing things in himself and i'm not saying at all that this is like autobiographical about gourd i'm just saying this is the story that i'm telling myself as i'm going through this, um because i definitely think there's something to the the roman numerals in the booklet the the section one two three four and this is where repair is beginning and and continues in the next song um there is a quote at the start of this song from someone named saul bello has anyone heard of saul bello canadian american writer i'm on the google machine right now yeah so it's just love is gratitude for being.
Track 1:
[1:24:18] So I forgot to look him up, but if anybody knows who that is, give us an email at discoveringdowneyatgmail.com, I believe. I want to say that what stuck out to me again was the harmony in the chorus. Julie, what I love about her singing is that she's not singing in what we call parallel motion, where she's just going up and down with Gord. She's actually sometimes moving with him, sometimes moving the opposite direction, sometimes staying on the same note when he changes, sometimes changing notes when he stays the same. And so she's very inventive with her harmonies. And I think looking at the videos of the bathhouse session.
Track 1:
[1:24:58] What I was thinking is like, you've got a fairly large band here, a lot of members. And the thing, the advantage to that, I think, is that when you're playing in a band like this, you don't have to worry about playing the entire song. You can actually, you know, just come in when needed. Like Dr. P does on the piano or the organ, he just sneaks in when he needs to. Dale does the same thing. He's not constantly playing through the whole song. Kind of like Steeplechase and Who By Wrote and that trio. I can't remember the other one, but yeah yeah just two beats of an instrument yeah and and i think by having those extra members.
Track 1:
[1:25:33] It gives each person a little bit of a chance to really perfect their parts like like you could see in those videos they would play the same song over and over and over again and you could see the song being like you know the arrangement being changed or people adjusting their parts on the fly and i just think it really allowed them to be picky about their part their parts and really And so I think she really benefited from that freedom of that extra time. They obviously had a great chemistry or I'm being assumptive because like there is no drama video anywhere. There's no, there's no angry. And like, even when you're looking at those bathhouse sessions, like some of the things that are being discussed, you can't hear it's in his headsets. And you just never see any one of them like just vehemently disagreeing with this is how it's going to go they're just like oh hey what about if we do this oh we do two here we do three here and you you felt a cohesiveness and i felt like that came through and in the recording it reminded me so much of the band that i've had with my buddies in high school and then for a few years after where we would just get a cassette tape and a recorder and just go for hours and.
Track 1:
[1:26:46] Write the song five times you know and and it wouldn't be the same song from beginning to end but it was never like yeah god you suck at that can you please do something different it was i like that maybe emphasis you know whatever and yeah that really did come through there was one of those videos at the bathhouse where gourd they they were like all right let's do it one more time gourd's like okay because it felt like he yes i think he in his mind had his part down but somebody in the in the background was like was that f minor or is that you know what are we doing and And I think that he was like, okay, let's get this right. We're like, we all need to do it right. And I'll just do what I'm doing because I know I've got that. He knew the song needed it. He did it one more time, even though he had just, he's like, he said, that's very astute. I recall that breath as well. That's, uh, that was, yeah. But it wasn't like a protest. It was like, oh God, we've done this for an hour. Yeah. Move on. But I get it. I struggle that in when I do band rehearsals, like songs that I've played 100 times before, you know, 200 times before, like, you don't realize sometimes it's we have a new drummer sitting in or a new bass player sitting in and they kind of need to know those, the dynamics of it. And you're just like, okay, let's play it again.
Track 1:
[1:27:59] Well, let's keep this moving along here and jump back to our friend Craig to talk about Broadcast. Yeah this song is is probably my favorite i just absolutely love it and i i want to talk about this in in sort of two sections so i want to talk about the lyrics first and then a little bit about the music so i love the lyrics probably more than any other song on this album and it's just a simple story and it's just you know the couple on the lake and in this case the great lakes and And watching these Lakers, as he calls them, the big container ships, dropping off things, picking up things. And I love how the story kind of progresses. He adds a little bit more detail and he's just painting such a beautiful picture. And coming again back to the painting theme and the colors. There's so many colors mentioned in this song. And the title broadcast just reminds me, it's like this TV show. It's like they're just watching night after night this same scene unfold and he's picking up on little details every night. To me, this is a song, I mentioned last song, that I think this is like the amends section. And this is the song where there's actually a moment in the lyrics where the spark is lit again.
Track 1:
[1:29:22] And I just want to read that part. So he's talking about the Lakers. If the great Lakers light is, if it's showing green, it's dropping off something.
Track 1:
[1:29:31] If it's showing red, coming from the right, out of the west, into the night, on the working lake, moving with the wind, it's picking up something. And then he goes on to say, our beautiful dew, our hearts open wide, just you, just me and you, 14 inside. And that's that moment. Yeah, the 14 inside is just like, we've all been there, right? We know that feeling he's able to capture with those two words. And I know in one of the bathhouse videos, he actually did even explain that to someone who asked about the lyric. And I felt so proud of myself because that was kind of my reading of it already. And I love not only that, but the red and green.
Track 1:
[1:30:09] So earlier in the song, the apples wash ashore. And what color is their apples? They're red and green. What color is the blinking lights on these Lakers? And then also in the song, I feel like the relationship is going from red to green, right? It's going like a stoplight. There's been this tension through the whole album with this couple. And now all of a sudden the light's green. And then musically, really interesting. I had to count it out a little bit, but it's in 11-8. So the first three lines of each verse are in 11-8 and then it switches to a 6-8. So you've got what that means is like a 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2, 1-2-3. So you've got that, you know, he's kind of dropping out an eighth note at the end of each line, line, which just gives it that kind of odd feel. You can't just like nod your head to it until you get to that fourth line. And then it just sits into that nice groove. And just again, the playing on the song, the layering of instruments, especially at the end, the guitar is beautiful.
Track 1:
[1:31:15] This song, that jam out session is what I'll call it. Because I dig the jam bands. As you guys know, I love Grateful Dead and Almond Brothers and Government Mule. I very much got that feeling. And then honestly, I'll go out on a limb here, but I closed my eyes at one point and felt like I could see the pig flying and it was a Pink Floyd tune. It had that rhythm. It had that big sound. You just felt so much space. And then they would take the space. They would leave the space. So again, as a guy that really digs the jam side of it. And then also like when you think of the hip and one of the reasons why I fell in love with them is, you know, it was never the same show every night. I think I mentioned once in one of our text exchanges, because we're talking about Pearl Jam. And it's like, it reminded me of Pearl Jam to the extent of it was like a new set list every night, so much energy. And we saw on one of the interviews about the parallels between Gordon and Eddie doing solo stuff. So, I mean, that to me resonated with me. And I particularly loved that, that they just went out on the limb.
Track 1:
[1:32:25] Most of the other songs are real good, sharp three to four minute here's for the radio. But this one had the, okay, if you're going to be along for the ride, you need to be committed because this is not your typical radio song. Like we've got a little jam out section in the back. So I appreciate it. They went out on. And this is the song that on the bathhouse videos, you can see them rehearsing over and over again. And it's a, there's a really cool moment where it's actually Dave Clark, the drummer who suggests the, uh, the, the four shots at the end. So they're in six, eight time. And then there's a, um, four beats over six. And so it's a very unique. So dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Yeah. It's just a great, just breaks it up a bit. And you can see Gord's just like so focused on his lyrics. He's just tweaking little words here and there. and he's if you know it takes some patience if you want to watch this video it's not like you know it's not jam-packed with action but it's it's worth the time if you're not it's not your typical documentary style it's someone with a camera in the room yeah that's what i loved about it i actually didn't even watch those videos i listened to them as i was working part of my job is to install graphics on vehicles and i was wrapping an oil truck and just put my phone over there and listening to it over and over and over again and just yeah it's just a lovely lovely tune and i love that that four over the, that that part is like okay this song is really something it's i love counting.
Track 1:
[1:33:51] Because I was a big Yes fan and a big Soundgarden fan, and there's nothing normal about any of their songs. And it's just really, really cool to have something different that's not in 4-4 for something that Gord's doing. And I have to ask you guys, did you, I kind of hinted at this on the text, but is there something this reminded you guys of? Anybody?
Track 1:
[1:34:12] Tend. First time that I heard it. And I love that and was kind of wondering like- Very similar melody. Was that intentional? And I kind of feel that it was intentional, but it was a bridging moment for me.
Track 1:
[1:34:26] And especially since I was such a big fan of that particular album for the hip. So that was one of those great emotional songs and it definitely took me back there. Yeah. I mean, so again, the Bob Rock haters owe him an apology. This isn't Bob writing these songs or telling him what to do. This is Gord writing these songs in this section of his life and his career i mean i i have thought throughout this process that a lot of these songs are just takeoffs from from hip stuff that never got used obviously the lyrics were born out of hip songs or or rants during songs or vice versa that the the rants were born out of pre-existing lyrics that just didn't have a home there are a lot of songs on this record that could have been on we are the same or now for plan a you know which is not a bob rock song or album yeah i mean this is this is the the sound of the Gord had in this time. Yeah. He mentioned the influence that Bob rock had on him, not just as a producer, but just as a person in one of those interviews. And, and we, I think I mentioned it earlier and I just wanted to say it again, because this over the other two albums, there was an abundance of interviews that were specific to the album that we didn't necessarily have for, for the other two, the first two albums. And I love the fact that with those particular interviews, you had the opportunity to really get.
Track 1:
[1:35:48] Insight into you know where where his mindset was and and what was happening and and and the fact that you know you know like we said before the maturity of the band like coming together and then having that opportunity to you know to finally put this out there and and for him to to get that guidance from uh you know again the other people that were that had been a part of this band now i particularly particularly enjoyed and and again broadcast to me just brought it to an end and then the net the last song on the album pinned i just want to say one thing and then justin i want to get your thoughts on it you had mentioned earlier about retrace kind of reminding me of coke machine glow to me pinned reminded me of coke machine glow it was almost like the whole i wanted to go back to it but yeah right here yep no reminiscent of coke yeah i said I said the exact same thing in my notes. Yeah.
Track 1:
[1:36:41] So, I mean, Gord finally got his train song, right? They were trying to record music at work on a train, weren't they? This was on a, I think it was on a Vial Rail. Was that, am I right on that? And the piano part was actually Willow just noodling around at home. Yeah. I mean, this is really kind of, if the project was to end now, it would just put a beautiful little bow on it. I know that that's not the case, but I feel like this one had roots a decade before. Well, in a way, I mean, this does wrap up, as far as I know, the Country of Miracles era. And the line I love when he says, I like dark, but that was like too dark.
Track 1:
[1:37:18] But even and and really like if you saw i believe it was the alan cross interview um so this was on the train after johnny faye's father's funeral oh right oh senior yeah yeah i didn't know and then did you all was it that same interview craig where they had said they even contemplated not putting the song on yeah i think maybe broadcast at first would have been the end of the album and then they just i think he said him and chris walla just decided it just it just worked and i'm i'm really glad they did it is a a beautiful song and and gourd was also making mention of the the people in the background on the on the train he's like english guy and the french guy the guy like on the phone it was he says like um my sales were up yeah and the train whistles and stuff and yeah um yeah and now yeah that that those recordings were left in. And again, to me, the boldness of that's how you finish off your tune, right? The last couple of minutes is this faint recording that you could barely make out of him on a train after a funeral of someone that he, not only he, but as if you listen to that description, like what was he, a heart surgeon? And so he was very well respected within the town and within the medical community. So, you know, to have that pinned on to the end was just amazing.
Track 1:
[1:38:45] So pinned, I want to go back to that.
Track 1:
[1:38:49] That's a reference to Al Purdy's poem on Canadian identity, which I actually really had to dig deep to find. It's a really great poem from the early 60s about how Canada has just never done anything great. And this is Al Purdy's obviously interpretation of what's going on at the time, but that Canada was trying to be the UK or trying to be the US and let them do it first and then we'll assimilate and try to copycat. And we've done nothing great to deserve any recognition and that's our identity. I mean, that feels unfair to me as an American outside observer. It was a really interesting take on it. And when we pinned ourselves to the earth, meaning like we're just going to sit here and not do anything and let all the good things happen, then we'll reverse engineer it for ourselves kind of thing. And there's also in the CD booklet here, so I mentioned the Roman numerals. So there's section one through four. This is actually just listed as epilogue. And there's a quote at the top from Evan S. Connell, an American writer. And it says, this trailing sash was more than decorative. When a sash wearer took a stand in battle, he pinned it to the earth with a lance signifying that he would never retreat. And then the song- Evan S. Connell. I'm sorry. Evan S. Connell was the author of the book-
Track 1:
[1:40:14] In which The Grand Bounce was mentioned. Oh, okay. Where Gord took that from Custer's Men. A real quick note about the timing of this album, the recording of it. So I was looking through my tickets here and I've got a Tragically Hip ticket from August 8th, 2009 in Abbotsford, just about 45 minutes from here. And this is a show that you can find on YouTube, like the entire show. It's some really great things. They do a ton of stuff from We Are The Same. They do the Depression Suite, which I was so happy to see live one time. And anyways, I'm guessing the recording of this album was like the next day or within days of this, because I know they recorded for two weeks in August of 09. And I looked at their tour schedule. They were doing, they actually did a few dates in Vancouver in July, I believe it was, at a smaller theater, but they did like three nights in a row.
Track 1:
[1:41:07] And so he had very little time off where they must've been rehearsing in, you know, maybe June, July, I think I read. And then yeah they went out played a couple more shows and then this was the last show for about three weeks then they went out again so he was really busy at this time just fully immersed in in music great great stuff yeah great stuff overall everybody i think i have a better sense of this record than i did going into it i know that i enjoyed this record but i didn't dig as deeply as you did, nor have I watched the bathhouse videos. So I'm really looking forward to wrapping this up and watching those now that I know how pertinent they are. So does this record stay in your rotation or will this be something that you'll pull out for sentimental reasons in the future? Justin, I think I know where you're going.
Track 1:
[1:42:01] No, there have been a lot of songs that have grown on me. I really did not retrace when it started, when this process started with this album, but I really do enjoy it a lot now. I think I will revisit this, not right away.
Track 1:
[1:42:16] And I also think that part of the reason why I've been so reluctant to grab onto this one is because I got so burned out on listening to the previous two records. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I was just so excited for them. And I listened to each one, I'm guessing north of 40 times. It was like, oh God, I need to take a break. And that sort of derailed my process with this one. And my personal life was incredibly busy at that point too when we had this stretch of time for this album. But the influence that I've imagined into my head that Gord has on other artists from this era, one of them being Alt-J. And I don't know if Alt-J has ever even heard of the Tragically Hip or Gord Downie, but they came on the scene shortly after this record came out and their interludes in their first album, An Awesome Wave, really remind me of some of the things that Gord has done with his solo stuff. And like I said, I've invented that in my head. I don't know if they are aware of each other, but this album certainly has a place in in that section of music that's in my life and and i i don't hate the album i'm just not sure what i think of it right now that's fair greg yeah this definitely will stay in in rotation for me along with the other two i i'm.
Track 1:
[1:43:35] So thankful for this for this journey really like i feel almost silly not diving into these albums earlier uh being such a huge hip fan um but at the same time i'm glad to do it this way because it really forces you to to just keep listening when you when you don't really want to right like i i felt that you know i did i was the same as justin i put it on the second that we started the last or that we stopped recording the last episode and i was like i'm not sure i can, you know i i was getting burnt out like like he said and i felt the best thing to do was kind of force yourself to listen to it a few times put it away for a little while you know listen to some other stuff and then come back to it and i think having those few days away from it when i was on my trip um really helped and when i when i came back to it just it was familiar and i was you know, starting to dig more into the lyrics. And, um, and again, I feel like there's this story being told like a five, you know, four or five part story of, you know, of moving these maybe relationship issues and then finding peace and then finally amends.
Track 1:
[1:44:45] And I just think it's a great, great album. And if this is the last thing we hear from the country of miracles, which I'm pretty sure it is, what a, what a three album run. I mean, uh, I would love to sit down with some of the members of that band and just, just pick their brain about stories from the time. And so I'm sorry to pre interrupt you, Kirk, but JD suggested, you know, when we all talk in the group chat that, um, when we started this album, we're kind of, you and I, Craig, we're both struggling with it at the beginning. And JD suggested that make a playlist of these first three albums and just put it on shuffle. And that really worked. And they all three of these albums really complement each other well when you do it that way. And that's what got me back into like, okay, I can feel this. I can start to listen to this thing. Oh, that sounds similar to whatever. And it really kind of.
Track 1:
[1:45:37] Yeah, it refreshed me. And I had to take several days off after the first couple of listens, but it's really, it is coming around. I just, I need more time with it to really love it. I got, I think I got lucky because I did enjoy the first two albums and obviously very excited as you guys are about this project and especially getting to know you guys and just like having that, wow, man, there's so many similarities. How crazy is that, that we just came together and, and this particular thing. So it's been a cool journey in that regard and i've been traveling a lot with work and personally as well and you know i've got older kids as i'd mentioned before and so just trying to spend as much time with them before they're you know doing their college things and and moving off and all that stuff so i didn't listen to it right away as i'd mentioned and i had some other things going on so when i did listen to it i had that reset i had that brain reset and it really really helped me to to absorb this. And I think because as you know, we made fun of me and like the not having the drumsticks, like it was all brushes on that first album. Like to me, I can appreciate a just, you know, get that album out there, but I love the production of this. I loved being able to hear everything. It's a great sounding album. I love the tightness.
Track 1:
[1:46:55] And I actually wanted to ask you guys, and I know you haven't all watched it, but the bathhouse sessions, that one through six series, like it sounded so much like the recording, but it was such a non traditional way of recording. Like typically you, you do that track, which is maybe that's what they're doing is just their live client, a click track thing. And then they go back and did that. Or did they just record because they had mics such that they, they were trying to get everything. And when you listen to those videos, it sounds a lot. I think they were recording. I think those were maybe warmup track, like, because they were still writing, they were, you know, they were still crafting the songs. But they sounded pretty close to, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how they recorded.
Track 1:
[1:47:41] So I appreciated that it was, and I think Craig, you mentioned like it was a really busy time. They had just played over in Vancouver and, you know, and then now the other part that I liked about this too is they're at a familiar place. Like they're at the bathhouse. And I felt like I learned more about Gord Downie on this album than I did on the other ones. I felt like you got to open, like, here I am. My body of work with the hip is what it is. But I also want to have this part of my life, and I think he's representing himself very well. So what is your MVP track then, Kirk? Okay.
Track 1:
[1:48:17] Like I mentioned earlier, the first two albums I knew right away, which ones were my favorite. I have gone through every song on the album as my favorite in the last two days in various different listenings. I mean, like not even a remote exaggeration. It's just there's every song has such a great story. And I could embrace each story, I think, in a manner quicker than I did with the first two albums. But I'm going to go over Moon Over Glenora. That that's going to be my MVP. Yeah. I, I just, I hear that song. And again, I know there's a little, there's some dark tones to it, but hearing it like Pascal submarine, which I think was my MVP on the last one. I loved it. I love the way it made me feel. Yeah. How about you, Justin? Well, moon over Glenora and the East wind were my two leaders right off the bat. And like I said, the glenora song i you know i'm ready to propose to julie doran like she's just such a great musician and um and then after seeing some of the live uh performances you know she's she kind of makes the band you know gourd is gourd and the rest of the band are great but without that sound um that she provides it's it's not it doesn't work and she played that tour with a broken ankle apparently yeah yeah unbelievable wow yeah did not know that so she's she's dave grohl yeah Babe girl is her.
Track 1:
[1:49:46] My MVP. Yeah, there you go. That's right. That's right. She did it first. My MVP is actually the dance and its disappearance. I just really love it. I love the theme of it. It's a great song, you know, musically, but I do love the lyrics and just the theme of the thing that Gord has held onto through his career. You know, use it up. Craig?
Track 1:
[1:50:08] Yeah, I'm going to have to go with broadcast. It's my favorite song lyrically, like I mentioned before. We knew that yeah wait a minute what yeah like I said solid choice the comparisons to pretend were what first.
Track 1:
[1:50:26] First you know caught my ear that familiarity but it was the digging into it and and just, having the lyrics just sort of hit me you know a little bit at a time like i didn't really, take them in right away and and just that discovery that sense of discovery was so awesome really close runner up to the east wind like that is such a good song and i have a feeling feeling when we're done this whole thing and we make a playlist mine's going to be lacking that energetic song, so I may regret this choice, because I think I've chosen all three slower songs so far. It's been a great time.
Track 1:
[1:51:03] This has been a lot of fun, and I want to thank Justin, Kirk, and Craig, for stepping up and really digging into this record, even though Justin said from the go it wasn't something, it was a bit of a slog for him, to be honest. And Craig had trouble starting up. Kirk, like me, liked it almost from the go. I probably didn't like it as much as you did from the go, but again, I had that experience where I put it away and then listening to it for this project, it's like, wow, I think this is the best of the three. I really, really like this record. Thanks for tuning in and listening to us. Make sure to buy your tickets for the event. take a look at discovering downy.com we've got some more information there and last but not least pick up your shit.
Track 2:
[1:51:59] Thanks for listening to discovering downy to find out more about the show and its host visit discovering downy.com you can email us at discovering downy at gmail.com and hey we're social check us out at gourd down.
