You don’t have to be fearless to be brave.
In this episode of XO Conversations, Dr. Rishma Walji sits down with Michelle “Mace” Curran, former U.S. Air Force Thunderbird fighter pilot and author of The Flip Side, to explore how courage really works — in the air and in life.
From blacking out mid-flight at nine times the force of gravity to performing in front of millions as one of the few women fighter pilots in the world, Michelle’s story is about more than speed and precision. It’s about what happens after the fear hits — and how to move anyway.
Together, they dive into:
✈️ What fighter jets taught her about failure and control
💭 How to separate self-worth from performance
🪞 Why courage isn’t the absence of fear — it’s the pause before reaction
🌱 How to build confidence through recovery, not perfection
💡 The real meaning of starting before you’re ready
Whether you’re standing at the edge of a big decision or simply craving more confidence in everyday life, this conversation will remind you that bravery starts with one small, honest step.
🎧 Listen if you’re ready to:
Overcome self-doubt and imposter feelings
Reframe failure as feedback
Build courage in uncertainty
Learn from one of the few women fighter pilots in the world
Watch on YouTube:
Learn more: macecurran.com
More Resources: livingxo.com/resources
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