Listen

Description

• I’m wanting something from art, which I think is much deeper, is a re-imagination of what it means to be human. I feel like we've instrumentalized and trivialized art and actually lost its capacity to expand our thesis of how we imagine ourselves and the world around us. I asked that question because the economy that we've created around art may have actually distorted its capacity to disturb us and to challenge our imagination of selves, which I think is probably at the root of the crisis that we face, a much deeper structural challenge of pretty much how we imagine ourselves and how we imagine our relationship with the world and every route.  - Indy Johar, March 20, 2024, conscient podcast e163

On March 20, 2024 I had the privilege and pleasure of hosting a conversation on ‘how art can help defeat defeatism’ with colleagues from the Transition Innovation Group, an inclusive and generative space for active consideration of societal transition, co-hosted by Michelle Baldwin and Taryn Lucas with the transformation team at Community Foundation of Canada.

This group of social innovators meets every two weeks on Zoom and is dedicated to collectively reimagining an equitable and integrated view of the infrastructures needed for long-term societal transition for future generations. In other words, making the world a better place.

I’ve been part of the group since its early days and we often speak about the transformative power of art and culture : art as a form of social innovation. So what you’re about to hear is a 50 minute conversation between 20 or so participants from this group. 

You might know some of them. Present at this session were (and I hope I've not forgotten anyone) : Abdul Walid Azizi, Arlene Macdonald, Barbara Leckie, Carly Goodman, Cheryll Case, Emily Mercy, Graham Singh, Ian Prinsloo, Indy Johar, Jo Reynolds, Joanne Kviring, Laura Cozzi, Lesley Southwick-Trask, Louise Adongo, Malobi Elueme, Michelle Baldwin, Nishan Chelvachandran, Shannon Litzenberger, Stephen Huddart, Taryn Lucas and myself as facilitator (along with Michelle Baldwin who gave a hand when my computer stopped working for a few moments and I continued on my iphone).

You’ll hear responses to four questions : 

• Is writer Rebecca Solnit right in saying that ‘fighting defeatism is also climate work’?
• How can art and culture help those who are ‘frightened by the ecological crisis’?
• How has art helped you personally overcome difficult moments in your social innovation work and what artworks do you recommend to your peers?
• How can social innovation projects and institutions better integrate artists and cultural workers in their work?

Note: Abdul Walid Azizi's response was inaudible in the recording therefore he wrote a similar statement that I have added as a voiceover in this recording. Thanks to Walid for doing this. I appreciate his point about 'viewing art as both a language of representation and a collective memory of society underlines its importance in strengthening the relationship between the individual and society. However, in our society, which is increasingly dominated by material and monetary values, art seems to be on the verge of being sidelined. Nevertheless, one way to keep the arts alive is by incorporating them into different societal initiatives.'

As you’ll hear many interesting and unresolved issues were raised at this session such as : 

• The notion of permanency with art and how that relates to defeatism and our sense of time constructs and legacy.
• How do we rebuild the permission space for deeply philosophical art that challenges the core of our being ? 
• Will we recognize art when it shows up that reframes mindsets and how do we measure success ? 
• Life is art. It changes without breaking and allows us to break open and break in and break through without breaking us.
• What is it that we expect an artist or artists to do? What is the result of their work? And if they do that, are we willing to pay them?
• I think there's something really important in this conversation where we move beyond the idea of transaction based payment for art. I don't think art is a transaction and it operates across and beyond transactions to an economy of care and entanglements.

I suspect that we’ll have another session on art and social innovation again soon. As usual, I invite comments on any conscient podcast social media or to me claude@conscient.ca.

Some of the links shared in the chat during the episode include :

• Ben Von Wong (artist referred to in this conversation)
• Bolder, faster, together: Perspectives on societal transition (co-ordinated by the Transition Innovation Group)
• Catalyst Community Finance (explainer on social finance)
• e160 shannon litzenberger - a culture of collective thriving (podcast interview)
• Indigenous Data Sovereignty & Indigenous Futures (featuring Jonathan Dewar, Sofia Locklear, and Jason Lewis Hosted by: Joanna Redden)
• Mysteries, Yes (a poem by Mary Oliver that was read during the session)
• REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH, DEMOCRATIZE POWER & SHIFT ECONOMIC CONTROL(an introduction to  Resonance 2nd Edition, a Just Transition guide for philanthropic transformation)
• State of Emergence: Why we need artists right now(an arts policy essay by Shannon Litzenberger)
• We can’t afford to be climate dommers by Rebecca Solnit

*

END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

Hey conscient listeners, 

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). 

It’s my way to give back.

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I Ipublish free ‘a calm presence' Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.

Your feedback is always welcome at claude@conscient.ca and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads,BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube andSubstack.

Share what you like, etc

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. 

Claude Schryer

Latest update on July 8, 2025