The pop star took an extremely nonlinear path to No. 1, and continues to push the boundaries of online behavior. Guest: Lakin Starling.
Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.
