The 12 Days of Christmas is such a popular song, but Katie has a bone to pick with the retail industry. The 12 Days of Christmas are not a countdown to Christmas. They are the days from Christmas to Epiphany.
Join us as we explore the various celebrations and memorials that make up this extended holy week, as well as the secular traditions attached to them.
All this and more....
Support us at Patreon and Spreadshirt
Join the Community on Discord
Learn more great religion facts on Facebook and Instagram
Learn more on our official website
Be sure to check out Blackbird Farm and Apothecary on Facebook and Instagram.
[00:00:11] Katie Dooley: Happy new year, Preston.
[00:00:13] Preston Meyer: What now?
[00:00:15] Katie Dooley: Happy new year, Preston?
[00:00:17] Preston Meyer: What a new year already. Wow! Where has the time gone?
[00:00:24] Katie Dooley: I mean.
[00:00:24] Preston Meyer: This is the third year of the Holy Watermelon Podcast.
[00:00:27] Katie Dooley: Yes. Not three years worth of episodes, but we have touched three years with our great content.
[00:00:36] Preston Meyer: Right? I'm pretty proud of us.
[00:00:38] Katie Dooley: Happy New Year, everyone, and thank you for listening to.
[00:00:43] Preston Meyer: Without our audience, this wouldn't even be possible.
[00:00:47] Katie Dooley: Oh. I was going to say thank you for listening to.
[00:00:52] Preston Meyer: The Holy Watermelon Podcast.
[00:00:56] Katie Dooley: That's the soft open I wanted. Thank you.
[00:00:58] Preston Meyer: I'm with you now.
[00:01:00] Katie Dooley: I know you are. This is something that I get so [assionate about.
[00:01:09] Preston Meyer: This is your pet peeve.
[00:01:10] Katie Dooley: It is. And I'm not even a Christian. Today we're talking about the 12 Days of Christmas, and I've also included Epiphany in this as well, because why not? Why wouldn't you?
[00:01:26] Preston Meyer: Part of the 12 Days of Christmas, kind of.
[00:01:29] Katie Dooley: Yes. I mean, when else? We may as well lump them all together. But one of my biggest pet peeves is we see this in retail. Always is, you either see the 12 Days of Christmas as the first 12 days of December, or the 12 days leading up to Christmas, both are incorrect. None of those are the 12 days of Christmas. The 12 days of Christmas are the 12 days after Christmas.
[00:02:00] Preston Meyer: Um, yeah. It's kind of weird to see how much this mistake is made.
[00:02:06] Katie Dooley: I hope next year, all of you. Next December, when all of you see this, you just shake your fist at it. Because now you know, now you're a little bit better because, you know the 12 Days of Christmas.
[00:02:19] Preston Meyer: Yeah, this episode isn't late. This episode is right on time.
[00:02:22] Katie Dooley: Perfectly on time. Y'all wondering why we're still covering Christmas in the New Year.
[00:02:30] Preston Meyer: There's a lot of people who haven't celebrated Christmas yet the entire Eastern Orthodox tradition celebrates Christmas after the 12 days of Christmas have ended.
[00:02:44] Katie Dooley: Yes, you might hear, depending on where you are in the world. We're in Alberta, but if you're anywhere sort of western Canada, you might hear the term Ukrainian Christmas, because generally we...
[00:02:55] Preston Meyer: Have a huge Ukrainian population.
[00:02:56] Katie Dooley: We have a huge Ukrainian population here. But generally. If you're Ukrainian, you are part of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and they celebrate Christmas on January 6th,
[00:03:06] Preston Meyer: Seventh,
[00:03:07] Katie Dooley: Seventh. I've seen I saw both dates in my research.
[00:03:10] Preston Meyer: So really I've never seen anybody put Ukrainian Christmas on the sixth. That's epiphany.
[00:03:17] Katie Dooley: Oh. All right.
[00:03:19] Preston Meyer: And Orthodox Christmas is the day after the Western epiphany.
[00:03:24] Katie Dooley: Yes. We're going to get into all these calendars.
[00:03:28] Preston Meyer: Things get confusing, but we're going to help straighten that out.
[00:03:30] Katie Dooley: And I actually, for the longest time, just thought Epiphany and Ukrainian Christmas were the same thing, but it's actually a calendar difference. But we'll get there.
[00:03:38] Preston Meyer: Yeah so what are the 12 days of Christmas? Is it just the countdown or is it?
[00:03:44] Katie Dooley: It's that horrible song, which I have some notes on that too.
[00:03:49] Preston Meyer: We'll get to that.
[00:03:50] Katie Dooley: So they're so again, they're the 12 days following Christmas, ending on the sixth with the day after being epiphany. And every day of the 12 days is actually a saint's day. So you could really party hard if you wanted to.
[00:04:02] Preston Meyer: I mean, every day is a saint's day.
[00:04:04] Katie Dooley: Every day is a saint's day, but you could just have feast days after feast days. I need to be Catholic. I'd get a lot of time off work if I wanted.
[00:04:15] Preston Meyer: I mean, there's different tiers of sainted feast days, and there's there's memorials for minor saints that they're never going to be counted as holidays. And then they kind of spectrum range up to the actual, this is a real holiday that you should be taking time off work for.
[00:04:35] Katie Dooley: So of course, day number one, December 25th. What who do we celebrate on that day? Preston?
[00:04:41] Preston Meyer: Oh, good old saint Jesus.
[00:04:43] Katie Dooley: Oh, Saint Jesus. Do we call him Saint Jesus?
[00:04:45] Preston Meyer: Oh, he's the Holy Messiah. Okay. Holy and saint are actually synonymous.
[00:04:49] Katie Dooley: I just like that. Saint Jesus sounds like a rapper.
[00:04:54] Preston Meyer: A little bit. Yeah, Christmas is all about Jesus. We talked about this before. That's not the day he was born, but it's the day that we celebrate it.
[00:05:07] Katie Dooley: Day number two is the 26th or Boxing Day if you are Canadian or British.
[00:05:15] Preston Meyer: Yeah, Boxing Day is not a worldwide thing. I just learned by looking at my calendar. Nunavut celebrates Boxing Day a couple of days after the rest.
[00:05:27] Katie Dooley: I think I've seen that.
[00:05:27] Preston Meyer: Yeah, that's so weird. I don't know how that decision was made.
[00:05:33] Katie Dooley: And I, wrongly assumed that Boxing Day was a big deal in the States because I looked to them as this isn't particularly, but as more consumerist than we are with, you know, Black Friday. It was a big thing down there before it became a big thing up here. And I was talking to a friend and I was like, yeah, Boxing Day and Boxing Day sales. And she's like, what are you talking about? I couldn't believe it. Um, so yeah, if you're one of our American listeners, we have a huge shopping day, post-Christmas called Boxing Day. And, uh, now it's not as big as Black Friday, but it used to be just as big as Black Friday, where we'd have crazy sales and people would line up and nobody would get stabbed because we we're Canadian, eh, but yeah.
[00:06:18] Preston Meyer: Right. We're too polite. I remember when I was growing up, there was always this joke that Ukrainian Christmas comes after Boxing Day because they're smarter than the rest of us and do all their Christmas shopping when there's the sales. I like it.
[00:06:32] Katie Dooley: I have a point to make towards that, but when we get to Ukrainian Christmas, we'll chat. Boxing day, in addition to a great shopping day, is also Saint Stephen's Day.
[00:06:43] Preston Meyer: Do you remember who Saint Stephen is?
[00:06:44] Katie Dooley: No, you tell me.
[00:06:45] Preston Meyer: So he's the first Christian martyr that we get described in the book of the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament. He was stoned to death. And so the people who made him a canonized saint thought it would be apropriate, maybe with a little bit sense of irony, to make him the patron saint of stonemasons.
[00:07:08] Katie Dooley: No, I don't like.
[00:07:11] Preston Meyer: It's kind of rude, right?
[00:07:13] Katie Dooley: And I don't mean to go on a tangent, but it's kind of like the Christian thing to do. And this is one thing where I really like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is like, you don't put this torture device on a pedestal, whereas most Christians are like, yeah, a cross. I'm like, that's literally.
[00:07:31] Preston Meyer: What art of Jesus' story makes you think he likes cross?
[00:07:33] Katie Dooley: Yeah. That's like being like, I like this gun.
[00:07:37] Preston Meyer: Right?
[00:07:38] Katie Dooley: So yeah, I get it in their weird, twisted sense of humor um, but I'm also like.
[00:07:44] Preston Meyer: No, I think it's a little bit of the whole, bless them that curse you business. That's part of Christian...
[00:07:51] Katie Dooley: Taking back your power.
[00:07:52] Preston Meyer: A little bit. Okay. So being a patron saint of people who work with rocks, blessing those people who are conveniently close to rocks who may occasionally throw them.
[00:08:02] Katie Dooley: Okay. I'm also curious about your point that you wrote here about the Good King Wenceslas story, one of my favorite carols.
[00:08:11] Preston Meyer: I didn't write that. I don't even know that song. What? Yeah, you wrote that?
[00:08:16] Katie Dooley: I was just trying to pass the conversation back to you.
[00:08:19] Preston Meyer: Unfortunately, I have no, I don't know the song. I don't know the story. This is all on you.
[00:08:24] Katie Dooley: What? I'm not gonna sing because.
[00:08:28] Preston Meyer: I'd never heard the song sung until I moved down to the States for a couple of years.
[00:08:33] Katie Dooley: Wow. It's one of my favorite carols, and I've loved it since I was a kid. Also, I feel like I've mentioned this in a podcast before. Random fact about me not: a Christian. We celebrate Christmas, as you know, as in a secular way. Love religious Christmas carols. Love them. I hate secular carols. I Saw Three Ships, slaps. Good King Wenceslas, banging. Hark, the herald angel, chefs kiss.
[00:09:01] Preston Meyer: I Saw Shree Ships, I heard it on the Barenaked Ladies Barenaked for the Holidays Christmas album. Holiday album. It's not just Christmas. Half the tracks are Hanukkah, but that's that was my only context for years. And then I heard somebody sing it once in church when I was living down in the States. Apparently they just have a lot more Christmas carols down there than we don't ever pay attention to up here.
[00:09:28] Katie Dooley: I feel like our our radio probably tries to lean more secular anyway. Probably so. Good King Wenceslas looked out on the feast of Stephen, when the snow lay round about, deep and crisp and even.
[00:09:42] Preston Meyer: I get you.
[00:09:43] Katie Dooley: Brightly shone the moon that night. Though the frost was cruel. When a poor man came in sight. Gathering winter fuel. So he's like a land baron. And he teaches his page to give back to the poor.
[00:09:59] Preston Meyer: Nice.
[00:10:00] Katie Dooley: So they, like, get this this poor man food and and wood.
[00:10:04] Preston Meyer: I feel on good. Half of the Christmas tradition is scaring rich people into being a little bit more generous to the poor.
[00:10:11] Katie Dooley: Yeah, so now that makes more. That first line makes more sense to me on the feast of Stephen. I never actually know what that meant.
[00:10:18] Preston Meyer: Now is the song older than Charles Dickens.
[00:10:21] Katie Dooley: Um, if I had to guess, and I'm pulling out my phone right now, I'd guess there's probably about the same vintage.
[00:10:28] Preston Meyer: Okay. It just from what I caught of all of that and will probably not retain it feels kind of that sort of era.
[00:10:39] Katie Dooley: Oh, they're actually older. Uh oh. Wait, the first song. Hold on. The tune comes from the 13th century.
[00:10:48] Preston Meyer: Okay. Reusing tunes is a pretty.
[00:10:51] Katie Dooley: 1853 English hymn writer wrote the Wenceslas lyrics.
[00:10:56] Preston Meyer: Okay, so it kind of recently.
[00:10:58] Katie Dooley: Yeah, it's one of my faves.
[00:11:00] Preston Meyer: Okay, cool. Well, now we know.
[00:11:02] Katie Dooley: I feel like it's taking us a long time to get through these 12 days.
[00:11:06] Preston Meyer: Uh, we're we're, uh, on day two.
[00:11:08] Katie Dooley: Day two. Uh, day three.
[00:11:10] Preston Meyer: There's there's another saint that I want to look.
[00:11:13] Katie Dooley: Oh, sure. Yes, please.
[00:11:14] Preston Meyer: Because we're talking about all these saints being celebrated. So there's also the feast of Saint Dionysius or Dennis. He was the pope from 259 to 268 CE. And they decided we're going to make him a saint, because he really fought to defend the principles of the Trinity. I don't think it's really that interesting beyond that though, to be honest.
[00:11:42] Katie Dooley: Yeah so we'll just give it to Saint Stephen. Day three! We're up to December 27th is Saint John the Evangelist Day. Um, it is also shared with Saint Fabiola.
[00:11:53] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Fabiola's just one of those special saints. She got married a couple of times, was widowed a couple of times, and then she's like, you know what? I'm gonna become a Christian now. And studied under Saint Jerome of Bible fame.
[00:12:08] Katie Dooley: December 28th. Day four is the feast of the Holy Innocents.
[00:12:12] Preston Meyer: Now, we talked about these innocents a little while ago.
[00:12:15] Katie Dooley: In our last episode. Yep,
[00:12:16] Preston Meyer: Who were supposed to have been killed by King Herod, and that may or may not have happened, but this whole day is actually blocked off. No other Saints get this day. It's just for these kids that may or may not have been killed by King Herod.
[00:12:33] Katie Dooley: Oh, it's like Gretzky's 99 jersey is blocked. Can't be 99 again.
[00:12:37] Preston Meyer: It has been retired. Yep.
[00:12:41] Katie Dooley: December 29th, day five is Saint Thomas Becket. Wasn't he one of the bad saints?
[00:12:47] Preston Meyer: He wasn't one that we've done an episode on.
[00:12:50] Katie Dooley: But he's not a great guy, isn't he?
[00:12:52] Preston Meyer: I mean, not great, but better than some.
[00:12:57] Katie Dooley: Okay. It's also shared with Saint Egwin. Tell me a little more about these saints.
[00:13:02] Preston Meyer: So Saint Egwin was Bishop of Worcester way back in the good old days, and not really terribly notable Out of all of the saints that aren't either. A lot of calendars will list Saint Egwin as the saint of the day and completely leave off Saint Felix, who was pope from 269 to 274 CE. Saint Felix is kind of interesting to me. He also really defended the Trinity in the early days of the Catholic Church, but also really fought to get people to believe that Jesus was the incarnation of this phantasmic word Which is really theologically true.
[00:13:46] Katie Dooley: The good word.
[00:13:47] Preston Meyer: Yeah, yeah, it's tricky stuff.
[00:13:51] Katie Dooley: December I was like trying to say day and December at the same time. December 31st day seven, New Years Eve. It is Pope Sylvester the First. And then you also get your regular New Year's traditions around the world celebrated this day, obviously.
[00:14:08] Preston Meyer: There's actually a lot of saints marked on December 31st, mostly minor fellas that barely get what we call that memorial on this day. Like I didn't even put the list together for this one for this.
[00:14:22] Katie Dooley: Too long?
[00:14:23] Preston Meyer: Yeah. It was too onerous of a task.
[00:14:26] Katie Dooley: Everyone wants this day.
[00:14:28] Preston Meyer: Yeah. The end of the year is kind of a weird time for that, I guess.
[00:14:32] Katie Dooley: Now we're into the new year, January 1st, day eight. This is Mary, mother of Jesus.
[00:14:39] Preston Meyer: Yeah, and they didn't block this day off for other saints. Even though Mary has a really special place in the Christian canon of saints. So we have Saint Vincent Maria Strambi, who was a Passionist priest only about 200 years ago.
[00:14:56] Katie Dooley: What does that mean?
[00:14:58] Preston Meyer: So the Passionist order is a special group that's just really into the suffering of Jesus.
[00:15:05] Katie Dooley: I was going to say this sounds extreme and mean.
[00:15:09] Preston Meyer: They're not super extreme,
[00:15:11] Katie Dooley: But they put a lot of... They put a lot of stock in the passion a lot.
[00:15:17] Preston Meyer: I mean, that's that's the that's the name.
[00:15:19] Katie Dooley: Day nine, January 2nd is Saint Basil the Great and Saint Gregory Nazianzus.
[00:15:27] Preston Meyer: Not Nazi-anus?
[00:15:31] Katie Dooley: Well, what do you say it like that! Now I can't unsee that.
[00:15:35] Preston Meyer: Ah, what a time in history where we can look at these names and make them seem so much more silly.
[00:15:44] Katie Dooley: Saint Gregory, who had no problem with his name in the fourth century. But now.
[00:15:49] Preston Meyer: Right. Basil and Greg, they were two great important fourth-century Christian thinkers who were also best friends.
[00:15:59] Katie Dooley: Like us!
[00:16:01] Preston Meyer: Right.
[00:16:01] Katie Dooley: I mean, I'm not a great Christian thinker. You are, but we're best friends.
[00:16:06] Preston Meyer: Yeah. And so they're honored together sharing this day.
[00:16:10] Katie Dooley: What would be our Saint day? Our launch our launch day?
[00:16:15] Preston Meyer: October 4th.
[00:16:15] Katie Dooley: I got way too sentimental. Day 10th January third is the feast of the Holy name of Jesus. Tell me more about this one, Preston.
[00:16:29] Preston Meyer: Uh, so.
[00:16:29] Katie Dooley: This sounds very theological.
[00:16:31] Preston Meyer: It's meant to commemorate the day that Jesus was officially named in the temple in Jerusalem when he had been circumcised. The problem I have with this is we're looking at day ten. Christmas being day one. But according to the law, he would have been eight days old when he was circumcised.
[00:16:54] Katie Dooley: You're supposed to be circumcised eight days in, is what you're saying. Okay.
[00:16:57] Preston Meyer: Yeah. But we're on day ten.
[00:17:02] Katie Dooley: What if there was a Sunday in there and you're not allowed to do any work? Would it get bumped?
[00:17:07] Preston Meyer: I don't know if moyles count this as work that gets bumped, but maybe. I doubt it though.
[00:17:14] Katie Dooley: We should call a moyle.
[00:17:16] Preston Meyer: I guess so. But I mean, even in the text of Luke chapter two, it says that he was named in circumcised eight days after he was born. It's actually pretty explicit about that. So, even though even if it would have been bumped traditionally. The text we have here says it wasn't. But we know that Luke was also probably not right about...
[00:17:42] Katie Dooley: A lot of things.
[00:17:43] Preston Meyer: The Census?
[00:17:45] Katie Dooley: Yeah, he had a lot of trouble with dates.
[00:17:48] Preston Meyer: A little bit. He had some issues with historical facts, and Luke wasn't actually a Jew himself, so.
[00:17:55] Katie Dooley: He might not have...
[00:17:57] Preston Meyer: There could be some errors here, but the fact that we have in the canon of Scripture. This tradition that it was eight days later. And yet the liturgical calendar says, uh, traditionally we're going to say it's on the eighth day of Christmas. It just feels weird. Oh, well, that's my thoughts on that.
[00:18:24] Katie Dooley: But there's also a couple others. So even Jesus shares his day with some people.
[00:18:28] Preston Meyer: Well, Jesus gets so many days he's gonna have to share a couple of them.
[00:18:31] Katie Dooley: That's fair. So there's, uh, Pope Anterous
[00:18:36] Preston Meyer: Telesphorus.
[00:18:37] Katie Dooley: Telesphorus. So there's a couple popes. Anteros, Telesphorus. There's a couple saints, Saint Giuseppe, Maria Tomasi and Saint Genevieve the Virgin as well, that are all done on this day.
[00:18:51] Preston Meyer: Out of all of these, and as you noticed, Jesus shares this feast day with a bunch of people. The one that I think is kind of interesting is Telesphorus, he was the Pope from 126 to 137 CE, and he's the dude responsible for the midnight Christmas mass. Just kind of a nifty thing. He's also the dude who decided and made it officially the tradition of the church moving forward and affects us all today. Easter must be celebrated on Sunday. Which makes some good sense, but he's the dude who made the decision. All right. Day 11. We're getting real close to the end.
[00:19:30] Katie Dooley: January 4th.
[00:19:31] Preston Meyer: The fourth day of January is the feast day of Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, the first American saint. I thought that was kind of cool. She lived in the 18th and 19th centuries. She shares this feast day with Saint Angela of Foligno, Italy, who was around in the 13th century. And I thought she was actually more interesting than Elizabeth Seton. She had all kinds of visions, and she wrote them in great detail for the church. And thanks to all of her mystical revelations, she was titled Mistress of Theologians.
[00:20:07] Katie Dooley: Not an appropriate name now.
[00:20:08] Preston Meyer: Yeah, the that word is...
[00:20:10] Katie Dooley: That didn't age that didn't age well.
[00:20:14] Preston Meyer: But I thought it was interesting.
[00:20:15] Katie Dooley: Well, you know, and day 12 is January 5th, epiphany Eve. It is Saint John Neumann. Isn't that an actor?
[00:20:26] Preston Meyer: Maybe, I don't know.
[00:20:29] Katie Dooley: And he was the first bishop in America. So these last couple saint days are Americans.
[00:20:34] Preston Meyer: A little bit, yeah.
[00:20:35] Katie Dooley: And then, of course, he serves it with an old person as well, Saint Edward the Confessor. And some people also celebrate Saint Simeon Stylites.
[00:20:45] Preston Meyer: He lived on a small platform on top of a pillar for 37 years.
[00:20:49] Katie Dooley: Wow.
[00:20:49] Preston Meyer: That's that's a miracle on its own. So I did some googling on this Edward the Confessor thing because I pulled up all of these. I looked them all up on the actual Vatican website, and then some of them they did. I had to look up other sources for some of these articles as well, after I found them on the Vatican website, because they changed the names on the Vatican website.
[00:21:12] Katie Dooley: Weird.
[00:21:13] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Like Saint Giuseppe Maria on the Vatican website. They called him Joseph Mary. I feel weird about that. He was an Italian fella.
[00:21:23] Katie Dooley: You don't need to anglicize it for us, right?
[00:21:26] Preston Meyer: We get it. We know Giuseppe means Joseph, but his name is Giuseppe. Saint Edward the Confessor was the king of the English, not the King of England, but the King of the English from 1043 to 1066. And he really fought hard to defend the Christian faith in what would become England. He's the last King Edward before King Edward the first of England.
[00:21:53] Katie Dooley: Okay.
[00:21:53] Preston Meyer: Yeah. It's not confusing at all.
[00:21:55] Katie Dooley: No, I'm following.
[00:21:57] Preston Meyer: The Anglo-Saxons have three Edward's. They didn't get numbered. And then when it became England officially, then Edward started getting numbered. But if you want to mess with anybody when you talk about our most recent King Edward, add three to his number.
[00:22:15] Katie Dooley: So I love... This is like one of those other things that like ties into people not knowing what the 12 Days of Christmas are. And just like one of those nerdy facts that I get really excited about Shakespeare's 12th Night is about the 12th day of Christmas.
[00:22:33] Preston Meyer: No way!
[00:22:34] Katie Dooley: Yes. So Twelfth Night, that's what it's referring to is this last day in the series of events. It is. It's a very popular British tradition. We don't see it much over here in North America, and I really didn't see any records of it anywhere else.
[00:22:49] Preston Meyer: That's a great time to party before epiphany.
[00:22:51] Katie Dooley: Yeah and Twelfth Night is like, much like the play is a very rowdy celebration. Or if you're not a Twelfth Night fan, if you're not a Shakespeare fan, She's the Man with Amanda Bynes is based off of Twelfth Night. Twelfth Night with soccer. And, you know, in both instances there's cross-dressing. And so that was a popular tradition. Men would dress up as women. Women would dress up as men. Role reversal is like a big part of this. So even the rich would feed the poor and serve the poor, not just, you know, take a basket to the food bank. They would actually serve the poor. Yeah. So it's, uh. It's. I've always wanted to have a Twelfth Night party, but it's always, like, too close to Christmas, you know? You're just, like, done by then. I know, yeah, it's only 12 days. I know, but, like, you're so done, it's like I'm not ready for another party. But I've always wanted to have, like, a rowdy Twelfth Night party. Sure. Do you like nightmares, Preston?
[00:23:57] Preston Meyer: Uh, I like weird dreams. I don't know if anybody likes nightmares.
[00:24:02] Katie Dooley: So if anyone wants nightmare fuel. One of the traditions of Twelfth Night or is the Twelfth Night cake or the King cake. And there's also a version of this for Mardi Gras. So if you do Google King cake, you'll probably be in North America and get Mardi Gras cakes.
[00:24:22] Preston Meyer: I'm already thinking of a pie with crows in it, but that's not a cake.
[00:24:25] Katie Dooley: So like historically they'd put like a bean or a pea in the cake and you'd eat the cake and whoever got the bean or the pea would win money or a prize.
[00:24:35] Preston Meyer: That doesn't sound terrible.
[00:24:36] Katie Dooley: Yes, but now you people put people put like the little plastic babies in the King cake. So there's just like this little face, like peeking out of the cake at you. And it is actually, uh, I'm gonna show you some.
[00:24:50] Preston Meyer: Is this a celebration of King Herod?
[00:24:52] Katie Dooley: No. The king Jesus.
[00:24:55] Preston Meyer: Um, if you're eating babies. Because let's be real, if you're putting a baby in a cake, there is a risk of you eating this baby. It sounds more of a celebration of King Herod than Jesus. And we're going to have to share this photo that Katie's pulling.
[00:25:11] Katie Dooley: There's several terrifying photos, like this one with the back end of a baby just hanging out of your cake, or this one where the baby looks like he's suffocating.
[00:25:20] Preston Meyer: Let it be noted that in many countries, what we're talking about here is a crime.
[00:25:26] Katie Dooley: Here's this one that.
[00:25:28] Preston Meyer: You can't be putting toys in food. There's a reason that America missed out on Kinder Surprise for so long.
[00:25:34] Katie Dooley: I think it's still not allowed there.
[00:25:36] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Because you can't be putting food in or toys in food.
[00:25:42] Katie Dooley: Or food in toys for that matter. It's not a great idea.
[00:25:44] Preston Meyer: I mean, food and toys is a different rule.
[00:25:48] Katie Dooley: Look at this one. It's little butt hanging out.
[00:25:51] Preston Meyer: All right. Yeah. Discord, if you want to see these pictures. In fact, speaking of Discord.
[00:25:58] Katie Dooley: Ooh. Mid-episode. Advertisement I love it.
[00:26:03] Preston Meyer: We are doing a giveaway and Discord is the only place to find this one. And we're really happy to be working with Blackbird Farm and Apothecary for this additional contest. We're putting up a Peace be With You cutting board that Katie lovingly designed and I think is just fantastic. And our friends at Blackbird Farm and Apothecary actually put it on wood for us, and we're looking forward to sharing it with one lucky listener.
[00:26:35] Katie Dooley: One lucky Discord member.
[00:26:37] Preston Meyer: Yes, you must be on Discord to obtain this prize.
[00:26:41] Katie Dooley: Winner will be announced on January 7th.
[00:26:44] Preston Meyer: May the odds ever be in your favor.
[00:26:46] Katie Dooley: Oh, I love that. So yes, that's Twelfth Night. That's a great party. If you want another reason to celebrate. And it ties directly in with this string of days from the 25th all the way to the seventh.
[00:27:02] Preston Meyer: Absolutely. So epiphany is January 6th. Sometimes it's called Three Kings Day because, according to Matthew chapter two, a handful of kings or a king and his buddies. We don't know how many kings, but the traditional number is three because of the gifts. We've talked about this in our previous episode. This is supposed to be the day that traditionally they showed up to visit Mary and baby Jesus and baby Jesus' Stepdad.
[00:27:32] Katie Dooley: Oh poor Joseph.
[00:27:35] Preston Meyer: Joseph doesn't get nearly enough credit.
[00:27:37] Katie Dooley: For raising another man's baby!
[00:27:40] Preston Meyer: Right? The guy's a champ. Because of the gifts that these kings the Magi brought to Jesus. Sometimes epiphany is called Little Christmas because of this story, and sometimes people will commemorate it by giving additional gifts, and sometimes they're perfectly satisfied with the big Christmas they had only two weeks ago. What I thought was really nifty, and I hadn't heard this before until I actually did some looking into it. There are some people who add to this tradition the title of the Day of Lights because of the light that was the shining star that the Magi followed to find the baby Jesus in the first place, which kind of ties it all into that Festival of Lights theme that we had going at the end of last year.
[00:28:30] Katie Dooley: Yeah, just all of the religions have their Festival of Lights, right now, or at least in the last 4 to 6 weeks.
[00:28:38] Preston Meyer: Yeah. So it's kind of cool a little continuity for us. And as you know, I like words. Epiphany means manifestation or appearance. So the title for this feast day refers to Jesus first appearance to the Gentiles. Of course, in reality, these Gentile magi appeared to Jesus.
[00:29:03] Katie Dooley: Yes, Jesus wasn't going anywhere.
[00:29:05] Preston Meyer: No, he was not exactly walking about according to most traditions.
[00:29:11] Katie Dooley: Homunculus.
[00:29:12] Preston Meyer: Right? There's the homunculus tradition where Jesus was walking and talking immediately after he was born. I feel weird about that. But if that's what you believe, that's what you believe.
[00:29:23] Katie Dooley: Now is this one of those words like I can say, oh, I've had an epiphany. I've learned something about myself or life. Do we get the word epiphany from Christianity, or was it, you know, or they apply the word.
[00:29:39] Preston Meyer: The Greek word is used for anything appearing to you. A realization counts as a manifestation of thought. So it's completely independent from the Christian tradition, but not different from it.
[00:29:56] Katie Dooley: So if you... Okay you've had Christmas. We've now had 12 bonus days of Christmas. What if I want to keep partying Preston?
[00:30:07] Preston Meyer: Wow. Then it's a great time to switch over to the Julian calendar and start all over. Because January 7th on the Gregorian calendar is December 25th on the Julian calendar. So you can have your Russian or Ukrainian, whatever your Orthodox Christmas, the day after Epiphany.
[00:30:27] Katie Dooley: And then do you say the 12 days of Christmas again?
[00:30:29] Preston Meyer: Absolutely! The Orthodox tradition has the 12 days of Christmas, just like the Catholic tradition. And epiphany falls on January 19th.
[00:30:38] Katie Dooley: Nice. So I was actually confused by this for a long time. I think I mentioned it earlier in the episode that I thought that they just celebrated Christmas on Epiphany, but it's different. It's an entirely different calendar, like we talked about both the Jewish and Muslim and Hindu solar, sorry, lunar calendars. There's the Julian calendar, which is what the Orthodox Church follows. So it's totally different. And then I just included this little anecdote because I think it's cute. But my mom was raised Ukrainian Orthodox. She was raised to Ukrainian immigrants. And so growing up they had Canadian Christmas on December 25th. And that would be like the presents and Santa and secular day. She grew up poor, so there weren't a lot of presents, but that was, you know, that day. And then they had Ukrainian Christmas, which is when the priests came and you went to church, and it was very solemn and theological. And so that's how they did it as Ukrainian immigrants. And I thought that was a cute story.
[00:31:38] Preston Meyer: Yeah it's nice. Yeah. It took quite a long time to get everybody to convert from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar. A lot of Europe, Western Europe made the change a couple hundred years ago. And then basically at the end of the First World War, the Soviet bloc said, oh yeah, we're going to make the switch.
[00:32:00] Katie Dooley: That not... Wow, yeah, that's recent.
[00:32:05] Preston Meyer: I mean, it's only 100 years ago.
[00:32:06] Katie Dooley: Yeah.
[00:32:07] Preston Meyer: And so that's kind of interesting. If you look, I'm sure you noticed in junior high going through the Russian Revolution in history, there was two dates for pretty much everything. Yeah, that's because they were in the middle of that era where they needed to acknowledge both calendars.
[00:32:24] Katie Dooley: Interesting.
[00:32:25] Preston Meyer: Yeah.
[00:32:26] Katie Dooley: That's. Man. Yeah. So my Gito would have was born in the late 1800s. So in Ukraine. So he would have been born now I wonder if his birth dates even tight. Because he would have been born on born under the Julian calendar. Wow.
[00:32:43] Preston Meyer: And England would have been like, bro, you're two weeks off. And so what's weird to me...
[00:32:50] Katie Dooley: Bro, you're two weeks off!
[00:32:53] Preston Meyer: What's weird to me is that when everybody was finally on the same page using the Gregorian calendar instead of the Julian calendar, and by everybody I mean countries ruled by Christians, because that's the subject of discussion here. When that's change was really accepted by all of the Christian nations, a whole bunch out east, that the Orthodox groups never adjusted their liturgical calendar. It would have made a lot of sense to just skip two weeks of holidays. You know, pick a time in the year when you've got two weeks that you are fine dispensing with one time, and then their calendar could have lined up with the rest of us, and Christmas and Easter would have been at the same time, and everything would have been hunky dory. But they're like, no, we're not skipping any feast days for any saints at all. We're not changing our liturgical calendar. And so now they're off by two weeks from the rest of us.
[00:33:58] Katie Dooley: And then you get these confusing Ukrainian Christmases. Even though I'm only one generation removed, I had no idea.
[00:34:09] Preston Meyer: I feel like an awful lot of people don't know. An awful lot of people, even growing up, I went to a Ukrainian school, and a lot of people didn't realize why Christmas was two weeks off. It was just Ukrainian Christmas is a different Christmas two weeks later, that's the deal.
[00:34:26] Katie Dooley: Like, I literally thought they were like, no epiphanies, the important one, because that's when we realized Jesus was around. But it's not that at all and now you know that too.
[00:34:39] Preston Meyer: Yeah, so hopefully that helped anybody who wasn't familiar with the calendar change and the huge ramifications that that has had on the whole planet.
[00:34:47] Katie Dooley: I literally think we'll have to do an episode just on calendars, because we bring them up so often, maybe a bonus episode because it's not really religious, but it's important back information.
[00:34:59] Preston Meyer: Sure. Okay, let's do it.
[00:35:02] Katie Dooley: Now. I think we would be remiss to do an episode on the 12 Days of Christmas.
[00:35:08] Preston Meyer: And not address the song.
[00:35:09] Katie Dooley: And not address that song. I remember in elementary school we would be like in rows by grades. And I don't know if it's just like to burn off energy, but like every there were like grade ones would be an odd row and grade twos would be even grade threes would be odd. And you'd have to. Shut up. And so then you'd have to like, stand up and sit down on the odd numbers or on the evening numbers.
[00:35:36] Preston Meyer: Oh, that sounds like the worst parody of mass. Stand up. Kneel. Stand up. Sit.
[00:35:40] Katie Dooley: Well. I think it was just like to make us burn off steam, but, like, so by the time you hit 12, it was like chaos and just I can't imagine the teachers enjoyed it, but...
[00:35:54] Preston Meyer: I mean just to make everybody do it. Somebody must have thought it was a good enough idea. But you might be right that maybe they didn't enjoy it as much as felt a little bit of satisfaction.
[00:36:05] Katie Dooley: The song itself is basically a secular song.
[00:36:11] Preston Meyer: Yeah.
[00:36:12] Katie Dooley: There was an internet theory bopping around that it was a hidden code to pass around the tenets of Christianity when they weren't allowed to. But the song's not actually old enough for this, and a historian, William Studwell, said "This was not originally a Catholic song. No matter what you hear on the internet. Neutral reference books say this is nonsense. If there was such a catechism device, a secret code, it was derived from the original secular song. It's a derivation," a derivation derivative I'm reading. "It's a derivative, not the source." So as fun as that little piece of information is, it wasn't originally intended that way, but you can actually find what people have written into the song symbolically. The partridge in a pear tree is our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
[00:37:13] Preston Meyer: Which sounds like a really. It feels a little gross to me.
[00:37:16] Katie Dooley: What about it?
[00:37:17] Preston Meyer: Well, of all of the great things that one can ascribe to Jesus at the Christmas season.
[00:37:25] Katie Dooley: The lion. The lamb, him.
[00:37:27] Preston Meyer: Hanging from a tree like a partridge in a pear tree is not the...
[00:37:33] Katie Dooley: Wait is the partridge dead?
[00:37:36] Preston Meyer: I would hope not for the sake of the song.
[00:37:38] Katie Dooley: I thought it was just a bird sitting in a tree.
[00:37:40] Preston Meyer: Right.
[00:37:41] Preston Meyer: But if you're saying that the bird in the tree is Jesus, the tree is the cross.
[00:37:45] Katie Dooley: Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.
[00:37:47] Preston Meyer: Definitely. For sure. I mean, I get how somebody would have fit that in there and felt like this is an okay thing to share with the world, I get that. But it's Christmas, not Easter, and that feels icky.
[00:38:01] Katie Dooley: Fair. The two turtle doves are the old and the New Testament. Again, this is all "supposedly".
[00:38:07] Preston Meyer: Right. Somebody did put some serious thought into making these parallels. And there's a functionality to it, a purpose for it.
[00:38:16] Katie Dooley: Just I'm going to just put "supposedly" in front of every sentence guys, because I'm not going to. Three French hens, and this one is interesting to me because you could have done a lot of things and they didn't pick what I thought they did. So it's the three virtues of faith, hope and charity. Not the three Magi, not the Trinity.
[00:38:37] Preston Meyer: Well, I could see more likely the Magi than the Trinity for the three French hens than France generally being counted as a Gentile nation. I actually would have been really cool. But the three theological virtues. They're all right.
[00:38:53] Katie Dooley: Okay. Four calling birds or the four Gospels of Math, Mark, Luke and John. Math. I just said! Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Whoa!
[00:39:06] Katie Dooley: Four calling birds. That makes sense. I'm on board with this one.
[00:39:10] Katie Dooley: Okay. The five golden rings are the first five books of the Old Testament.
[00:39:19] Preston Meyer: I can accept that I don't love it, but I get it.
[00:39:22] Katie Dooley: Okay. Six geese a-laying are the six days of creation before God rested on the seventh day.
[00:39:31] Preston Meyer: Now this one took me some thinking, but I get it. The eggs being associated with an act of creation, so I accept. Okay, I don't love it, but I'm on board.
[00:39:43] Katie Dooley: It felt like they really had to think about that one.
[00:39:45] Preston Meyer: Oh, I'm sure all this took a lot of deep thought. Somebody worked on this for a long time, I think,
[00:39:49] Katie Dooley: Oh, this one i'm gonna need you to elaborate on seven swans a-swimming is the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit. What are the seven gifts of the Holy Spirit? Sorry, off the top of your head.
[00:40:00] Preston Meyer: That depends a lot on your author. Um, we're probably talking about Paul here. Really, he's the one who lists gifts to the spirit in the New Testament as a thing that people refer to pretty often. And the swans, they're like really big doves. I don't know, because when you talk about the Holy Spirit, if you're going to think of a bird, it's usually the dove.
[00:40:25] Katie Dooley: Seven doves a-swimming.
[00:40:30] Preston Meyer: But I don't love that ones.
[00:40:31] Katie Dooley: Okay. Uh, eight maids a-milking are the eight Beatitudes. Beatitudes? I've heard of beatification, but beatitude sounds like.
[00:40:44] Preston Meyer: Blessed are the peacemakers, that kind of thing. I think this is relying entirely on the number and has nothing to do with the maids a-milking.
[00:40:53] Katie Dooley: Are the maids virtuous?
[00:40:55] Preston Meyer: Probably. I mean, at the time this was written, maid simply meant an unmarried woman.
[00:41:02] Katie Dooley: Nine ladies dancing are the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit.
[00:41:06] Preston Meyer: Relying entirely again on numbers. Not a whole lot of creativity here.
[00:41:10] Katie Dooley: Ten Lords a-leaping are the Ten Commandments.
[00:41:14] Preston Meyer: Same thing, numbers.
[00:41:17] Katie Dooley: 11 pipers piping. This one, I understand, is 11 faithful disciples.
[00:41:22] Preston Meyer: Yeah, that one's pretty easy to be on board with.
[00:41:23] Katie Dooley: Because we got rid of Judas.
[00:41:25] Preston Meyer: Yeah.
[00:41:27] Katie Dooley: Judas, no. And 12 drummers drummer. The 12 points of belief in the Apostles Creed.
[00:41:35] Preston Meyer: It's not a stretch. Not a far stretch. It's a little bit of a stretch, but it's not a far stretch. It's all right.
[00:41:42] Katie Dooley: So some fun facts about this song is that remember it's cumulative. So at the end of the 12 days this the recipient has received 364 gifts. Because on the 12th day of Christmas she got 12 drummers, 11 lords, ten. It's cumulative. So by day two she has... Five. Four gifts because she's got two partridges in a pear tree and two turtle doves by the second day.
[00:42:13] Preston Meyer: Yeah. You're right.
[00:42:15] Katie Dooley: So she gets 364 gifts.
[00:42:19] Preston Meyer: Which is almost a whole year.
[00:42:21] Katie Dooley: I know. I feel like there's something very symbolic about all of this.
[00:42:25] Preston Meyer: I honestly, I think it's a coincidence. I would even venture to guess that the person who wrote this song just was looking for a song that builds up on itself and had no intention of the 12th day.
[00:42:38] Katie Dooley: That was one of the theories I read, is that it's really just a children's memory song.
[00:42:42] Preston Meyer: Yeah. I'm on.. That's the boat that I'm on.
[00:42:48] Katie Dooley: And then you can find reports. So people have like totaled what this would cost.
[00:42:54] Preston Meyer: I mean, there's several tiers here that are owning people.
[00:42:58] Katie Dooley: Yes. Several of these are illegal. Um, unless you're just like, paying the drummers for a show and you're paying 12 drummers for...
[00:43:08] Preston Meyer: And an hour's wages for the performance, a lot more affordable than owning a person.
[00:43:13] Katie Dooley: Yeah and you're actually, like, not allowed to own a person in most places.
[00:43:16] Preston Meyer: Well. Today in North America it is illegal.
[00:43:22] Katie Dooley: All right. So the cost and so because the pandemic, the cost of the 12 days of Christmas actually decreased significantly.
[00:43:31] Preston Meyer: Oh yeah. Is it because we're paying people less?
[00:43:36] Katie Dooley: Wow. I mean, there's a lot of variants, but the one that I'm just pulling up straight from Google. According to the 2020 Christmas Price Index by PNC Financial Services Group, the 12 days of Christmas will set you back $16,000. But according to PNC, the cost of Christmas decreased by nearly 60%. So in 2019, the same 364 gifts would have cost you $38,000.
[00:44:06] Preston Meyer: Wow. They didn't give details on which dropped that price the most.
[00:44:11] Katie Dooley: A oh, if you're so. Eight maids a milking, for example, is the federal minimum wage. So they're putting that at $58. So. Wow. Fascinating.
[00:44:24] Preston Meyer: That good, eh?
[00:44:25] Katie Dooley: There's a whole there's a whole Wikipedia thing called the Christmas price index. And it goes back all the way to 1984 to tell you how much Christmas costs.
[00:44:35] Preston Meyer: And we're just talking about these 12.
[00:44:37] Katie Dooley: 12. 364 items.
[00:44:40] Preston Meyer: These 12 listed entries.
[00:44:42] Katie Dooley: Yeah, it dropped massively in 2020. And the only other time we saw a drop was in 2000. Oh no, that's not true. 1995. There was a big recession in the 90s, and then 2002, there was a big. Oh, so this is all from the Wikipedia article. The price of each item is set as follows. The pear tree comes from a nursery in Philadelphia. The partridge, turtledove, French hen. prices are determined by the Cincinnati Zoo. The price of a canary at Petco is used for the calling bird.
[00:45:16] Preston Meyer: Wait wait wait. So we went to a pet store for the canary. But we're asking a zoo how much they value the other birds because.
[00:45:24] Katie Dooley: They don't think you can get doves and partridges at a pet store.
[00:45:28] Preston Meyer: Well, then check a market in, I don't know, somewhere in the Middle East that probably does.
[00:45:33] Katie Dooley: All right. But you couldn't import that, right? And quarantining the animals because you're not killing them. Right. Yeah.
[00:45:42] Preston Meyer: Fair point, I guess zoo it is.
[00:45:47] Katie Dooley: Bah humbug. Right. Gordon Jewelers sets the price for the golden rings.
[00:45:53] Preston Meyer: Now, are we talking like finger rings or hoops?
[00:45:55] Katie Dooley: So these are finger rings, but they also see that the song might actually refer to ring-necked pheasants as opposed to actual jewelry.
[00:46:06] Preston Meyer: Well, so does this index.
[00:46:09] Katie Dooley: No. They do. They do gold jewelry.
[00:46:12] Preston Meyer: Okay.
[00:46:13] Katie Dooley: The maids are assumed to be unskilled laborers earning the federal minimum wage.
[00:46:19] Preston Meyer: I mean, rude, but fair.
[00:46:20] Katie Dooley: Oh. That's amazing. The Philadelphia Dance Company provides the estimate for the salary of ladies dancing.
[00:46:26] Preston Meyer: How about the lords, a-leaping?
[00:46:27] Katie Dooley: The Philadelphia Ballet estimates the salary for the leaping Lords. Okay. And so this is obviously done in Pennsylvania. The going rate for drummers and pipers is that of the, uh, excuse me, the Pennsylvania Musicians Union.
[00:46:41] Preston Meyer: I.. .As reliable as any other. Are the drummer is the same?
[00:46:47] Katie Dooley: Yes. So drum drummers and pipers are from the Pennsylvania music unions. So my guess is that it was the performers that tanked it in 2020 when they couldn't perform.
[00:46:58] Preston Meyer: I think you're probably right.
[00:46:58] Katie Dooley: That would be my guess.
[00:46:59] Preston Meyer: That makes sense.
[00:47:00] Katie Dooley: Let's see if there's anything.
[00:47:02] Preston Meyer: So they couldn't perform as a group so they could be, um, bought for private events pretty affordably.
[00:47:10] Katie Dooley: So there are some controversies. For example. So the Lords a leaping are ballet dancers. And there's a criticism that they're not real lords. Right. They're male ballet dancers, but there are no lords in the United States. And I imagine that the Lords in England are not fond of leaping.
[00:47:32] Preston Meyer: So I'm I'm comfortable with that.
[00:47:35] Katie Dooley: Yeah. Okay. No, here it is. The 2020 index did not include the nine ladies dancing, ten lords a leaping, 11 pipers piping, 12 drummers drumming. Due to Covid-19 restrictions on live performances.
[00:47:45] Preston Meyer: It fits straight up. Just didn't include them instead of discounting them. That really accounts for a 60% drop.
[00:47:51] Katie Dooley: Wow. I mean, because they're a huge portion of the song, both, there's a lot of them and they're very significant gifts.
[00:48:00] Preston Meyer: Yes.
[00:48:02] Katie Dooley: Wow, I really enjoyed that rabbit hole. That warmed my little Christmas heart.
[00:48:09] Preston Meyer: And now, you know.
[00:48:11] Katie Dooley: So next year, check the price of Christmas and bring it to your family on 12th Night for some ridiculous fun.
[00:48:21] Preston Meyer: Yeah. Not on Christmas. You're early.
[00:48:24] Katie Dooley: Or not anything... Pre-December 25th. That's the only thing you take away from this episode. Now I'm getting on my little soapbox. If the only thing you take away from this episode. Is that the 12 days of Christmas are after Christmas. I'll be happy. I'm way too aggressive about.
[00:48:42] Preston Meyer: It. And this episode was specially requested.
[00:48:45] Katie Dooley: It was. I was like, was it? It was. I brought this up with my mom. We were talking about epiphany and how people get the 12 days of Christmas wrong. And she said you should do an episode on that. And so here we are, mom. And I don't even think I swore.
[00:49:02] Preston Meyer: Honestly, it's not that that's not the kind of thing that jumps out at me. So I think you're.
[00:49:06] Katie Dooley: I know, but that's why we have explicit episodes, because I swear so much.
[00:49:10] Preston Meyer: You don't swear so much. You swear sometimes.
[00:49:12] Katie Dooley: But I do say big ones.
[00:49:14] Preston Meyer: I guess you say the words that are more likely to offend people with sensitive thoughts on language.
[00:49:23] Katie Dooley: I like words, but not the same words as Preston. So please follow us on Discord. Get entered for this great contest by Blackbird Farm and Apothecary. Check out our Patreon and help support us this year. We have big plans and want to expand, and we can only do it with your help. And if the subscription model is not your jam, we have our Spreadshirt is our merch store filled with lots of great, beautifully designed merchandise.
[00:49:57] Preston Meyer: If you saw that cutting board picture and you loved the logo, but you didn't win the contest because we'll announce that soon, you can get it on a t-shirt, a bag, a mug, and we've got loads of other designs too that we're happy to share with you.
[00:50:11] Both Speakers: Peace be with you.
[00:50:37] Katie Dooley: We have a fabulous, another fabulous contest sponsored by Blackbird Farm and Apothecary.
[00:50:44] Preston Meyer: They've been very generous with helping us out a little bit, and we want to return the favor. We're running another contest.
[00:50:54] Katie Dooley: This time we are giving away a Peace be with you Cutting Board. And it's going to be a little different. Last time, we got you to like and share on social media, but we're pushing our Discord this time.
[00:51:08] Preston Meyer: So we want you to get on board Discord and you'll see the rules for the giveaway there.
[00:51:14] Katie Dooley: All you have to do is take a picture, show us that you're following Blackbird Apothecary and Farm on either Facebook or Instagram and post it in our discord to enter.
[00:51:23] Preston Meyer: And what's the prize?
[00:51:25] Katie Dooley: I already said a peace be with you cutting board.
[00:51:27] Preston Meyer: Gotta emphasize that.
[00:51:28] Katie Dooley: A Peace be with you Cutting board! Cut your meat on our fingers. Was that a good ad?
[00:51:37] Preston Meyer: I love it
[00:51:38] Katie Dooley: Thank you so much. Winner will be announced on Discord on January 7th.
