In this episode of The Inspire Podcast, Bart sits down with Alex Draper, founder and CEO of DX Learning, to tackle a critical issue in the workplace: toxic leadership. Alex starts with a simple truth—bad leadership is toxic and has negative impacts. So why does it persist when no one sets out to be a bad leader?
Alex explains that most toxic leadership isn’t intentional—it’s unintentional, and it stems from a lack of self-awareness and training. He discusses how leaders need to provide Clarity, Autonomy, Relationships, and Equity (his CARE model) and shares how to begin fostering CARE-driven leadership through data gathering, practical steps, and clear ways to measure progress.
Alex’s insights are essential at a time when employees are demanding more from their leaders—and when the opportunity exists to lead in a way that truly inspires. If you're a leader looking to create a healthier workplace culture and drive better results, this episode is for you.
Learn more about Alex at https://www.dx-learning.com/ and https://alex-draper.com
Connect with Alex on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-draper/
Show notes:
1:00 Introducing Alex Draper
1:32 What does DX Learning do?
1:56 Purpose is to wipe out toxicity in the workplace
2:55 How to get leaders to behave in positive ways
4:05 How to go into a company knowing that your specialty is toxic workplaces
4:21 Some people are truly toxic and try to cause stress
5:00 There are narcissists out there
6:00 There's no flawless team or human
6:19 Toxicity exists in every team
7:32 What are the signs of a toxic leader or culture
8:23 Levels of silence indicate a problem
8:56 Ideas and challenging the status quo - is that happening?
9:36 Lagging indicators: retention issues
10:39 What is a typical engagement like?
10:56 Engineering mindset - data!
11:59 What data should we gather?
12:28 70% of variance in employee engagement is down to the managers
12:41 If the team has an issue, it's more than likely the leadership does
12:51 Bottom up approach is not the right approach!
13:15 How to gather the data?
13:28 4 dimensions of high performing leadership/teams
14:54 How "Equity" fits in
16:48 Cognitive dissonance - gaps
17:07 Bart asks for an example of a gap dissonance between leaders and employees
19:21 Advice on collecting "listening data"
21:02 How can leaders provide more clarity?
21:49 Example of a leader working on clarity
24:18 The projection bias
24:48 Heuristics - brain shortcuts -cause issues
25:44 Example of 'autonomy' problem
26:01 Psychological safety = Autonomy
31:46 The "Equity" piece
33:05 Equity is the lagging indicator
33:34 How do you measure equity?
33:43 Fairness orientation
34:23 Equity is the output of the three controllables
34:53 Re-measure!
35:07 What should the measurement frequency be?
35:31 90 days for teams
36:32 Teams are always adapting
37:19 Change is the one consistent
38:22 How do you feel about the state of leadership in 2025 and onwards?
39:56 AI and how it will fit in the mix — emotional intelligence as the distinguishing factor
40:21 Where can people go to find out more?
40:48 Thank Yous
41:35 Show outro
