What happens when everyone agrees something needs to change, but the software you rolled out to fix it isn't actually fixing anything?
In Part 2, Emma Marks and Audrey Damman get real about what happened after they got consensus to roll out Asana to their team at WRI. Spoiler: getting everyone to agree was just the beginning. This is where they learned that culture eats software for breakfast—and that the real work of internal change happens after the design phase is "done."
This continues our conversation from Part 1, where we explored how Emma and Audrey designed their Asana rollout. They had consensus. They had a vision. They had a plan. But implementation is where internal change projects get tested, and where Emma and Audrey discovered their biggest blind spot: they'd invested heavily in designing the system, but hadn't invested enough in the culture needed to make that system work.
The big twist? Getting consensus was actually the easy part. Emma and Audrey thought they had it figured out after the design phase, but implementation revealed some hard truths about what it actually takes to change how a team works—and what role software actually plays in that equation (hint: it's smaller than you think).
They also discovered some surprising things about what you actually need to make internal change happen. Spoiler: it's not what most people think, and it might make your job a lot easier.
My Favorite Quotes of the Episode:
"Software is not a proxy or replacement for good habits around project design and project management... If you don't have a project kickoff for every internal project where everyone is co-designing a timeline and roles, then the thing that you're putting into the software system is ultimately kind of meaningless." - Emma Marks
"Don't wait until it's perfect because you can spend forever trying to design the perfect process... Give it the appropriate amount of thought and then just roll it out and start testing it." - Emma Marks
"If you believe in your vision... you need one person, or maybe two... and you can make a change." - Audrey Damman
Episode Breakdown
00:00 - 01:48 - Introduction and recap: consensus achieved, now what?
01:49 - 05:32 - From office hours to micro trainings: what worked and what didn't
05:33 - 07:57 - The after-action review and addressing uneven adoption
07:57 - 09:23 - Why vision matters for iterative design and onboarding new team members
09:24 - 13:53 - How their M&E framework evolved (and why flexibility matters)
13:53 - 17:14 - The big realization: culture eats software for breakfast
17:15 - 20:55 - Internal projects vs external: unique challenges and timelines
21:02 - 26:50 - Don't wait for perfect; you don't need leadership buy-in to start
26:50 - End - Final reflections and the importance of working with people who inspire you
