Description

Episode Summary

In this episode of Terms of Service, Mary Camacho sits down with William McGeveran—Dean of the University of Minnesota Law School and author of a leading privacy law casebook—to explore the evolving landscape of data protection, surveillance, and individual rights. With deep insights into both U.S. and European frameworks, McGeveran breaks down where current laws fall short, why consent alone doesn’t protect privacy, and how legal systems can (and should) evolve to meet the challenges posed by AI, big tech, and systemic data collection.

Key Takeaways

• Most of the world—including the EU—follows a “data protection” model that assumes personal data must be protected on behalf of individuals. This gives people broad rights to know, limit, and contest how their data is collected and used. In contrast, the U.S. lacks a unified data protection framework. Instead, companies are largely free to collect and use personal data unless a specific law prohibits it—prioritizing institutional autonomy over individual rights.
• Consent is an inadequate foundation for privacy protection. Relying on individuals to understand and agree to complex data practices shifts responsibility away from those in power and undermines meaningful control.
• Legal design matters. Structural choices—like creating intentional silos for data—can strengthen protections rather than limit innovation.
• Data breaches are no longer unusual—they’re inevitable. But legal standards still play a critical role in enforcing accountability and incentivizing better security practices.
• Younger generations see privacy not as a personal failure but as a systemic issue. And they're looking for collective, enforceable solutions—not just more terms of service.

Topics Covered / Timestamped Sections

• 01:39 – From Capitol Hill to privacy casebooks: McGeveran’s path into data law.
• 02:48 – The wild west of the early internet and Lessig’s “Code”.
• 04:32 – Silos in surveillance and the importance of intentional data separation.
• 08:00 – Privacy law vs. data protection law: U.S. and EU’s contrasting assumptions.
• 11:04 – Why California's privacy laws are stronger—but still fundamentally U.S. in approach.
• 14:11 – Why it’s not “all over”: What legal protections still matter.
• 17:33 – Aggregation harms and why individuals can’t foresee long-term data consequences.
• 24:03 – How digital-native students view privacy today—and what gives them hope.
• 27:00 – Why privacy policies can’t be read, and how AI can help interpret them.
• 35:30 – GDPR’s global ripple effects and Max Schrems' legal victories.
• 40:00 – Casebooks, case studies, and how law students are shaping future data policy.
• 41:45 – Data breaches, legal gaps, and the human side of cybersecurity.
• 50:35 – AI is both revolutionary and familiar—and requires caution, not panic.

Guest Bio and Links

William McGeveran – William McGeveran was named the twelfth dean of the University of Minnesota Law School in 2024. He originally joined the faculty of Minnesota Law in 2006 and previously served as the interim dean and the associate dean for academic affairs. Dean McGeveran’s research focuses on information law, with particular focus on data privacy and trademark law. His scholarship in trademark law considers the balance between prevention of harmful consumer confusion and protection of valuable speech including parody, commentary, and comparative advertising. McGeveran is also the sole author of a casebook, Privacy and Data Protection Law, used by instructors at dozens of U.S. law schools. Dean McGeveran has been a resident fellow at the University of Minnesota Institute of Advanced Study, a visiting professor at University College Dublin School of Law, and an instructor in the Notre Dame Law School London Programme. He frequently speaks to the media, submits amicus briefs, works with policymakers, and teaches continuing legal education courses in his specialty areas. Dean McGeveran earned a J.D., magna cum laude, from New York University and a B.A., magna cum laude, in political science from Carleton College. While an undergraduate he spent one year as a nonmatriculated visiting student at Worcester College, Oxford. Prior to joining Minnesota Law, he was a resident fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School. He previously clerked for Judge Sandra Lynch on the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit and practiced as an intellectual property litigator at Foley Hoag LLP in Boston. Before law school, Dean McGeveran worked in national politics for seven years, primarily as a senior legislative aide to then-Rep. Charles Schumer.

• Follow William McGeveran on Linkedin 
• Faculty Profile – University of Minnesota Law

Resources Mentioned

• GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) – Europe’s landmark data privacy law
• California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA) – A leading example of enhanced U.S. state-level regulation.
• Max Schrems and NOYB – Strategic litigation challenging EU-U.S. data sharing agreements.
• Carnegie Mellon - The Cost of Reading Privacy Policies Study – Analysis of time required to read all privacy policies.
• Privacy and Data Protection Law (University Casebook Series)

Further Reading / Related Episodes

• Episode 1: "From AI Anxiety to IP Integrity: Navigating Rights in a Tech-Driven World"
• Episode 3: “Empowerment Tech: Unlocking Customer Data for Better Choices and Better Business”

Call to Action

Privacy isn't dead—but it is under pressure. If you're tired of shrugging at every “accept cookies” pop-up, this episode will help you rethink what’s possible through law, accountability, and systemic reform. Listen to Dean William McGeveran on how to reclaim digital dignity.

🎧 Listen now: Episode Link

Credits

Host: Mary Camacho

Guest: William McGeveran

Produced by Terms of Service Podcast

Sound Design: Arthur Vincent and Sonor Lab

Co-Producers: Nicole Klau Ibarra & Mary Camacho