Season 2 episode 11 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about a model to understand some different positions that exist in conflicts.
'This tool forces you to think about what it would be like for you to be in any of these different roles: having caused harm, having been harmed and having witnessed harm. We often don't want to think about the possibility of ever causing harm.'
Show notes, links
Why this is a useful frame: these different positions have different needs; all of us could occupy any of these positions at any one time.
Some links to things mentioned in the episode:
The Karpman drama triangle
The first Exploring Collective Liberation course
And finally, some perennial resources:
our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford).
See our "What is facilitation?" podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources.
We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!
Transcript
ALI
This is Resist + Renew,
KATHERINE
the UK based podcast about social movements,
SAMI
what we're fighting for, why and how it all happens.
ALI
The hosts of the show are
KATHERINE
Me, Kat.
SAMI
Me, Sami,
ALI
and me, Ali.
SAMI
I'm recording this now, baby!
ALI
Shit, it's a podcast!
SAMI
Okay, so welcome back everybody to the toolbox. So, in this episode, we are going to talk about the different roles that people can play in conflict situation in quite an idealised way. So a person who's harmed, a person who's done some harm, or then a person who's witnessed it.
And this is a way of like thinking about conflict in general, but also like a tool that you can use. So, like always, we're going to think about some pros and cons and like, do a little summary at the end. So, Katherine, what are we talking about?
KATHERINE
So thanks Sami. As you said, it's a sort of triangle of: a person who has done harm, a person who has been harmed, and a bystander. And this is both a frame, so like a way of thinking about conflict in terms of who's playing these different roles, and also a tool to reflect on conflict, either individually or in a group: about what might happen if you are in any of those roles.
So the purpose of the tool is to highlight that there are a range of needs, they're not all going to be the same whatever role you're in. So for example, if you are the person who has witnessed harm, you might need to have someone check in with you. Or you might need to have some time to process what you've seen, or you might need something else.
And then it also highlights the specific needs specific people might have in a group. So if conflict does emerge, you have a bit of a sense as a facilitator, what people in your group might need. Also just want to name that this idea of a triangle in conflict is often used in other scenarios. So the idea of a ‘Drama Triangle’ in maybe more specifically abusive settings, where you have the perpetrator, the rescuer, and the victim roles, is something that this this kind of model is drawing on. So I think, at this point, it'd be really helpful to maybe ground this in an example. So Ali, do you want to talk to us about a time when you've used this tool?
ALI
Sure. So in 2018, R+R ran a course for a weekend. And as it happens, both Katherine and Sami, were participants there. So that's cool.
So the course was called Exploring Collective Liberation. It was kind of all weekend exploring ideas around anti oppression, and specifically around anti racism. And at the beginning of the weekend, we did that whole thing of like saying, kind of, the intention for the space, kind of went into some variation of like, group agreements. And we also wanted to talk about how we would,
