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Most HR functions are running the same playbook: deploy the engagement survey, launch the action plan, wait for the scores to move. And they don't. Or they do, but the business outcomes don't follow. 

That's because we've confused a symptom for a disease. Engagement is the fever. Lack of clarity is the infection. And no amount of recognition platforms, wellness apps, or pulse surveys is going to fix a workforce that doesn't know what winning looks like.

This episode is about what actually works — not as theory, but as proven operating practice. Tony Sarsam is a four-time CEO who has delivered results in every case by building what he calls a people-first culture. Not soft. Not HR-adjacent. A performance culture with people as the engine. Jackson and Scott sit down with Tony to pull apart exactly how he does it, what it really means to declare "people first," and what CHROs can start doing this week — even without CEO buy-in.

If you've ever sat in a room where "people are our greatest asset" got a standing ovation right before a round of layoffs, this conversation is for you.

What You'll Learn

• Why engagement is a lagging indicator of clarity and investment — not a driver of performance — and why optimizing for it directly is one of HR's most costly mistakes
• What "people first" actually means as a declarative operating system — and specifically what it is not
• How to build a statement of identity with a signature strength, and why at least 10% of the org must be involved in crafting it
• How to pressure-test your KPIs using the 15-second cashier rule: if a frontline associate can't grasp it in 15 seconds, it's not the right goal
• What it looks like when the CEO functions as chief culture officer — and how people strategy leads the board agenda instead of trailing it
• How to handle the high-performer culture killer, and why strong ratings for them are one of the most corrosive decisions a leader can make

Key Quotes

"Engagement isn't the disease. Lack of clarity is the disease. Engagement is the fever."

"If it takes me more than 15 seconds to explain to a cashier what that goal means, we failed."

"I wouldn't say people are our greatest asset. But after creating a people-first culture, I'd say: these people are our greatest asset."

"What interests my boss, fascinates me."

Sources for Statistics Cited

• Global engagement fell to 21% — Gallup State of the Global Workplace: 2025
• $438B in lost productivity — Gallup State of the Global Workplace: 2025
• 51% less turnover in engaged organizations — Gallup: Employee Engagement vs. Satisfaction
• 23% higher profitability in engaged organizations — Gallup: Employee Engagement vs. Satisfaction
• 46% of employees clear on expectations, down from 56% in 2020 — Gallup: U.S. Engagement Sinks to 10-Year Low

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Coaching is where it closes fastest — Jackson has developed CHROs from both sides of the table, as their leader and as their coach. The CHRO Ascent Academy, Private Coaching, Mandate Protocol, CHRO Chronicles, and the best-selling Substack are there too. 

All at mytalentsherpa.com.

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In private equity: Propulsion AI surfaces workforce risk before the close and translates strategy into individual accountability after it. Before AI automation -  drive outcome clarity with digital teammates to do the work fast and at scale. 

All at getpropulsion.ai.

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CHRO podcast, CEO Podcast, Business, Management

CHRO strategy, HR strategy, talent management, leadership development, talent management podcast, human capital strategy, mandate clarity, peacetime wartime leadership, talent hat framework, leadership pipeline, senior leadership, people strategy