Does a marriage really require a blank check of forgiveness? Pastor Roy's answer starts with a no and ends with a yes, and he explains exactly how both can be true.
In this episode of The Making Love Podcast, Tish and Pastor Roy take on forgiveness as it actually plays out at home, from a soup and half a sandwich that did not count as lunch to hurts that are much heavier to carry. They start with the small stuff, the socks on the floor and the clothes not folded right, because small offenses that never get forgiven pile up until everything makes you upset. Pastor Roy points to the small foxes that spoil the vine.
Then they get to what forgiveness is and is not. Pastor Roy describes it as an internal release of the connection an injury creates, not a verdict of not guilty and not pretending nothing happened. Tish shares how she came to forgive after the physical and emotional abuse of her first marriage, and how she knew it had finally taken hold: the name could be said and it had zero effect on her. Pastor Roy is clear that forgiving is not the same as staying in the same place. If someone refuses to do better, you have to rethink whether you forgive together or forgive separate. If someone is trying and learning, you give grace, because you never punish a learner.
The conversation turns practical. Why do couples drag up the last argument? Pastor Roy says it starts with the wrong framework: when you feel the need to win, you go looking for weapons, and in marriage there is no way to win a fight. Tish adds that it is not only about forgiving, it is the speed with which we decide to do it. Listen for Pastor Roy's hay bale analogy about why holding feelings in the middle becomes a fire hazard in a marriage, and his honest take on needing to downshift while Tish goes from drag to reverse. They close with what to do after years of unforgiveness: ask whether holding on is helping or hurting, start with willingness, and pray for help to release it.
Your turn: share your own story of forgiveness in the comments. Tish and Pastor Roy want to hear from the Making Love community. If this episode spoke to you, send it to someone who means the world to you.
0:02 Welcome and the big question: does marriage require a blank check of forgiveness?
2:52 What forgiveness really is, and why it does not mean pretending you were never hurt.
5:16 Tish shares her experience of forgiving after abuse in her first marriage and how she recognized she had released it.
8:42 Forgiving together or forgiving separately when someone refuses to change.
10:42 Why couples bring up old arguments and why trying to win a fight hurts the marriage.
17:01 Pastor Roy's hay bale analogy shows how unresolved resentment becomes a fire hazard in a marriage.
20:26 Where to begin after years of unforgiveness: willingness, honest reflection, and prayer.
Tish and Pastor Roy Times have been making love and making it last for more than three decades.
They met at Joy Center in El Paso, Texas, dated for two whirlwind weeks, got engaged, and married four months later. Thirty-plus years, three grown sons, and two-and-a-half grand-babies, they're still each other's favorite people.
Roy serves as the local pastor of Joy Center Phoenix, shepherding his community with the same steadiness he brought to a 13-year career as a government contractor and many years in sales and technology.
Tish is an ordained minister of nearly 20 years and the CEO of Tish Times Sales Agency, where she helps high-achieving women build companies that scale beyond them. Together they bring the head and the heart strategy and Scripture, candor and compassion to every conversation.
On the Making Love Podcast, Tish and Roy pull back the curtain on what it really takes to build a marriage rooted in friendship, faith, and purpose. They're not interested in the filtered, picture-perfect version. They're here for the real thing the laughter, the growth, the hard conversations, and the practical, faith-filled tools that help love get better every day.
They live in Phoenix, Arizona, where you'll most likely find them loving Jesus, chasing good coffee, and out on a hiking trail together.
