Host: Will Hart, dean of school, PRmoment Leaders
Featuring:
- Victoria Usher, CEO and founder, GingerMay
- David Phillips, co-founder and CEO, Pangolin
This is a special one-off edition of the podcast, hosted by Will Hart who heads up the PRmoment Leaders programme. Joining Will are Victoria Usher and David Phillips, both founders of successful independent agencies operating for over 10 years and specialising in separate sectors (respectively, GingerMay in b2b and Pangolin in consumer). Both are also on PRmoment Leaders as it approaches the second anniversary in May.
The discussion began with Victoria and David reflecting on what they know about leadership today that they did not know when starting their agencies. They also explored their key relationships within their businesses, David’s with his co-founder Will Cookson and Victoria with her team lead now by Amy Lawrence. They discussed the key attributes required of agency leaders, including decisiveness especially when pivots are required of the business.
They also explored how their time is most effectively used, including the split between current operations, client revenue and future-focused business strategy. Other key topics covered included how to properly delegate and empower your agency teams and the critical importance of getting hiring right.
The podcast concluded with Victoria and David sharing their thoughts on what they’re enjoying most and taking away from their participation in the PRmoment Leaders programme.
DETAILS
- Welcome and Context: The discussion was framed as a special one-off edition of the PR Moment podcast, with Will Hart hosting because May marks two years of the PR Moment Leaders program, providing a timely opportunity to reflect on leadership. Victoria Usher is the founder and CEO of Ginger May, a B2B specialist agency started in 2010 with 35 employees, and David Phillips is the co-founder of Pangolin PR, established around 12 to 13 years ago, with approximately 25 employees.
- Reflecting on Early Leadership Knowledge: When asked about what they know about leadership today that they did not know when starting their agencies, Victoria stated she initially knew nothing about leadership and that the reality differs vastly from the initial fantasy. She likened running an agency to having children, emphasizing that it is a constant, difficult job with a multitude of decisions. David concurred, describing his journey as a steep learning curve since leaving his roles at Freud's as junior account directors.
- The Co-Founder Relationship: David detailed the evolution of his working relationship with co-founder Will Cookson, noting that while they are close friends outside of work, they maintain a necessary professional distance during the intense work week. They find that their personalities complement each other, enabling them to quickly reach decisions without major disagreements, attributing this success to mutual respect. Will observed that many successful independent PR agencies are co-founded, acknowledging Victoria's "extreme bravery" in founding Ginger May alone.
- Challenges of Being a Solo Founder: Victoria admitted that the benefit of a partner is discussing nuanced business issues, as she previously had to manage problems alone, which was a "visceral" experience when your livelihood is on the line. She confirmed the difficulty of solo-founding and advised others to adopt David’s' co-founder model. Having a trusted managing director, Amy Lawrence, has since provided a partner in crime, marking a significant turning point for the business.
- Leadership Decisiveness: Will suggested that decisiveness is often sought and respected in leadership roles because agency professionals are commonly criticized for being poor at making quick decisions. David confirmed that quick
