What does it mean to commit to transformation when we can't know exactly how to get there? In the second conversation of Lead Embodied: Wisdom for Leading Through Uncertainty, Rhodes Perry sits down with Casey Tonnelly, queer, neurodiverse, non-binary facilitator, educator, and author of Striving for Antiracism, to explore what lifelong transformation asks of us when certainty isn't possible.
Drawing from their deeply personal and candid book, Casey shares what they've learned about confronting inherited conditioning, moving beyond binary thinking, staying present with discomfort, and practicing accountability when we inevitably get things wrong. Together, Rhodes and Casey explore how these lessons can help leaders cultivate greater agency, curiosity, and capacity in moments of uncertainty.
Why Commitment Belongs in Leadership
Transformation doesn't require certainty. It requires a willingness to stay engaged, remain open to learning, and keep choosing what matters. In this conversation, we explore how:
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Striving Creates Space for Growth. Antiracism is not a destination we arrive at, but an ongoing practice of reflection, learning, and transformation.
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Discomfort Can Become a Teacher. Fear, shame, guilt, and grief can make us want to retreat. Staying present with these experiences can create more room for awareness and choice.
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Accountability Builds Trust. Getting it wrong is inevitable. Learning how to acknowledge harm, make meaningful amends, and keep going is part of building more authentic relationships.
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Commitment Without Certainty. How do we remain committed to meaningful change when we can't guarantee that we'll always know the right thing to do?
Show Notes & Resources
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📚 Read Casey's Book. Explore Striving for Antiracism, Casey Tonnelly's deeply personal exploration of racial conditioning, reflection, accountability, and lifelong transformation: www.beyondthinkingwithcasey.com/
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🌱 Explore Lead Embodied. Learn more about Rhodes' forthcoming book and the Lead Embodied approach to navigating uncertainty with greater presence, authenticity, and ease: www.rhodesperry.com/leadembodied
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🎓 Join the Lead Embodied Course. Experience the practices and principles of Lead Embodied through a six-week journey designed for leaders navigating change, uncertainty, and growth. www.rhodesperry.com/leadembodiedpath
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✉️ Stay Connected with Rhodes. Subscribe to the Rhodes Perry Leads newsletter for reflections, practices, and invitations to lead embodied, build belonging, and transform what's possible: www.rhodesperry.com/subscribe
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🎙️ Follow the Imagine Belonging Podcast. Continue the conversation and explore upcoming episodes in the Lead Embodied: Wisdom for Leading Through Uncertainty author series. Thank You for Growing the #BelongingMovement! www.rhodesperry.com/podcast
Thank You for Growing the #BelongingMovement!
