Copywriter and book strategist, Bryna Haynes is our guest for the 122nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Bryna helps “change makers” make their change with books that start movements. And she would know. She’s the author of The Art of Inspiration, a best-selling book about writing inspirational books. Here’s a look at we talk about in this interview:
• how she went from hair stylist to freelance copywriter
• how she found out that being a good writer isn’t enough to keep a business afloat
• her writing process and how she finished her book
• how to connect to influencers who can help boost your business
• how to know what ideas to pursue (and how guiding values help)
• what you need before you make a pivot
• all the different kinds of copy she worked on and how finding clarity helped her find a new niche
• what pivoting has looked like in her business and where she’s headed
• how we make quantum leaps in our businesses (and what that really means)
• using your “reticular activating system” to change your behavior
• the importance of “big” dreams and how to achieve them
Ready to get this episode in your earbuds? Click the play button below or download it to your favorite podcast app. And, as always, you can scroll down for a full transcript.
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Linda Joy
Lisa Tener
Bryna’s website
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Intro: Content (for now)
Outro: Gravity
Full Transcript:
Rob: This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Club Underground.
Kira: It's our new membership designed for you, to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently.
Rob: For more information or to sign up go to thecopywriterunderground.com.
Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast.
Rob: You're invited to join the club for episode 122 as we chat with author and book strategist Bryna Haynes about writing books that start movements, making a big pivot in your career, what quantum physics has to do with goal achievement, and putting yourself out there.
Kira: Bryna, welcome.
Rob: Hey Bryna.
Bryna: So happy to be here. Hi Kira. Hi Rob.
Kira: Bryna and I are working together currently, and as we've sat down and talked through Bryna's past and what she's working on and events she's planning this spring, I was just like, ‘We have to get you on the show.’ Because everything that you're teaching and talking about and thinking would really help the copywriter community. I'm really excited to dive deeper into what you teach today. Let's start with your story. How did you end up where you're sitting today, and what are you focused on today?
Bryna: Well I'll give you the short version. When I was about 26 I was working as a hairdresser, master stylist, color expert in Providence. I loved that career because it taught me how to talk to people. Prior to that I was really, really shy, and not a very good communicator. I really learned a lot about relationships in that job. But I was also very bored. I felt like it was time to return to my dream of writing as a career.
With no prior experience, I don't have an English degree, I didn't have any idea what I was doing, I quit my lucrative salon job and dove into the world of freelance writing. I quickly found that just being a good writer is not enough to keep a writing business afloat. I had to really do a lot of learning in a very short period of time. It was really the best move I could have made, because it was totally sink or swim. I didn't have any way to go back. I didn't have any way to make excuses for not doing the work and learning what I needed to learn. I also happened to make some really fortuitous connections.
One of them with the boutique publisher I still work with today, and one of them with a book coach who immediately put me on her referral list for editing clients. Between the two of them I really fell into, without planning it or even thinking that I would go in that direction, I really fell into the world of personal development, self-help, inspirational books. That's where I've been working for over 10 years.
That's kind of the short version of the story. But it's been a really incredible journey in that I got to meld two of my biggest passions, writing and personal development, and really work with some amazing influencers in the industry. Work on an individual level with women who are out to change the world, and doing a damn good job of it.
Rob: Bryna, there's a ton of stuff there that we can talk about. Before we get into all of the inspiration and the cool change that you’re making, can we maybe talk about just process for a minute or two? Specifically the process of writing a book. I know there are a lot of people who are copywriters who want to write books. But they get started, or it's hard. Tell us about your writing process and how you actually got it done.
Bryna: Absolutely. I developed a process that I have applied to my own work, to my clients' work over the years. It's really just a process of clarity. In order to tackle something as big as a book, you really have to know not only what it's about, but why you're doing it. Not only why you're doing it personally. Like, ‘Oh, I want to write a book to share my ideas’. But why you're doing it in terms of serving your audience. What is your reader actually going to get out of this? What is the point you want people to take away? You have to get so clear on that that you can come back to it over and over and over through the process.
It's really like writing shorter form copy, and also different. Because with a book you have so many opportunities to explore your concept in depth. I think that's where people get really tripped up. They follow these tangents down various rabbit holes, and they lose sight of the core purpose of their book. I find when I'm editing, when I'm coaching people around their books, it's really about bringing people back to that core why. What are we teaching people and why are we teaching it? How do we bring this whole crazy discussion back around so that we get back to the point? If you can do that in every part of a book, if you can do that in every chapter, your book will make sense. It will have a trajectory. It will have a solid outcome. As opposed to just being a giant mishmash of information that people may or may not get something out of.
Kira: Gotcha. Okay, so before we talk about what's happening now, I do want to dive into your past. Your time as a hair stylist. What surprised you the most about people and human nature from that time, and working so intimately with humans?
Bryna: I think I really learned that we're really, we're more the same than we are different. I know we hear that a lot. People say that a lot. But it really is true. We really do want the same things. I kind of in my career there put a short, a little bit of a spin of personal development on it. I wasn't just making art on people's heads, although that was fun. It was really about helping people to show up as their best selves.
I think that when I was ready to make a transition, it was because I felt like I wasn't able to go deep enough with people in the capacity that I was in. I was able to give them a surface level experience of showing up as their best selves. But really, deep down I've always wanted more there. I've wanted more for myself. I've wanted more for the people I care about. But really, we're just all after the same things. We really want to feel valued and valuable. We really want to have connections with other people. We really want to feel good about the way we're walking through the world and what we're creating. Sometimes that gets distorted and we lose sight of it, or we're doing it in a way that's not in full integrity. Or we're not really connected to those aspects of ourselves. But in the end we all really do want those same things.
Kira: You mentioned during your writing career that you connected to a coach who referred you to a bunch of clients. You connected to these influencers, it sounds like early on. That really catches my attention because that's a struggle for so many of us. It's, how do we connect to those influencers who are going to send us great leads? Do you have any advice to copywriters who might be struggling with that?
Bryna: Absolutely. The first is, always follow your instincts. Because even though someone appears to be exactly what you want, until you really meet them and connect with them you don't really know if it's an energetic fit. Be willing to go and do things that are a little bit out of the ordinary.
I met both of those amazing women, their names are, Linda Joy, is the publisher and Lisa Tenor is the name of the book coach I used to work with. I met both of them through a meeting of the Holistic Chamber of Commerce in a little town in Rhode Island. Lisa happened to be there I believe because she was presenting. It's so long ago, I'm having trouble remembering the exact details. But that's where I connected with them. I went because I was a guest of a friend who was a member of that chamber. Not because I necessarily had any interest at that point in being involved in that world. Because it was a lot of healers and massage therapists and coaches. I had no idea at that point in my life what a coach even was, let alone what they did.
I just went as Dave's guest, and I ended up connecting with these amazing people. If you have an intuitive hit to go somewhere or do something, even if it doesn't make sense at first, follow that.
