Kira and Rob join each other as guests on the 240th episode of The Copywriter Club podcast. After hosting the show and being business partners for almost 5 years, they discuss tips and tools others can use to create more growth and avoid pitfalls along the way.
Here’s how it breaks down:
The 6 Mistakes Rob and Kira have made during their copywriting careers.
Why being part of a community will skyrocket your career and build your skillset.
How to be a problem solver for your clients, so they don’t have to guess and search for a solution.
What Rob was doing before The Copywriter Club.
Why this simple word will give you more power and create higher quality work.
The value of testimonials and why they’ll grow your business.
Being unaligned and the results it can bring.
How to overcome comparisonitis when it keeps knocking at your door.
Unveiling your unique mechanism and x-factor, so you can tap into your full-potential.
How to successfully pull off a virtual event and create real community online.
Building a team and focusing on the buckets that propel the business forward.
Motivation and getting things done with a positive attitude.
Why it’s vital to make time for things you love outside of your business.
A better way to look at your business that will make all the difference in your sustainability and impact.
Trends and patterns in the copywriting space that you should avoid.
Books and podcasts
Listen in on the podcast below or check out the transcript and give it a read.
The people and stuff we mentioned on the show:
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Books and things we're into right now:
21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari
The Highly Sensitive Person by Elaine N. Aron
Run to Win by Stephanie Schriock
The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett
You Get What You Pitch For by Anthony Sullivan
The Catalyst by Jonah Berger
A History of the World in 10 and a Half Chapters by Julian Barnes
The Road Less Stupid by Keith J. Cunningham
Frank Morgan Radio
The Smartless podcast
The Tim Ferriss Show
Full Transcript:
Kira: Hi, Rob.
Rob: Hey, Kira. We were just saying that we should have written an intro for this episode, since we write those after we record. Now, our process is all changed and we're just recording now this interview to go live next week actually. So I don't know if we're going to have time to do an intro or not.
Kira: We don't. Yeah. We're anti shoulds, right? All the things you should do, let's just not do it. We don't... No more shoulds for us. So there is no intro. It's just us, the two of us today. This is episode 240, right?
Rob: Yeah. Episode 240 and every 10th episode or so we like to just jump on and just chat about different stuff, go guest free and this is all our stuff. If you don't like that, you can skip to the next episode or listen to last week's episode or stay tuned and you get a full dose of Kira and Rob.
Kira: Yes. This is just us wild and free. So we are going to ask each other questions and just kind of interview each other because even though we talk frequently, we don't always ask each other questions about business ideas, what else we're doing so I think Rob and I just need more quality time together. We have a lot of time together, maybe we need more quality time together.
Rob: There you go. Yeah. Finding out more. I mean, we've only been doing this for four years, right? So trying to understand who the other person is with I think-
Kira: Who are you? Who is this person? So let's kick it off with the first question. Rob, what are some mistakes that you've made in your copywriting business? I guess this could really be any mistake. It's all fair game. But I was just thinking, I think frequently about mistakes I've made with projects with clients previously. I don't know why they just kind of pop in to my mind at different times and every time I think about it, I'm like, oh, we should talk about that. We should share the stuff that doesn't go as well or what we look back on and wish we could change. Because so often we talk about everything that is going well or all the things that we've done well, but let's focus on some of those mistakes.
Rob: Yeah. Let's talk about all the things we do wrong. And we're mostly talking about our own personal businesses here, the things that we do working one-on-one with clients. And as I was thinking about this earlier, there are a couple of things that come up, I think, for a lot of the copywriters that we talk to in the think tank when we're coaching or even in the accelerator, the underground, these kinds of things, I've made the exact same mistakes that they do. And I think I've mentioned this one in particular several times, but the number one mistake that I made especially when I went out and started freelancing, was trying to do it all on my own, going alone, not having a network of support. That doesn't mean that my family wasn't behind me or that I didn't know other people in business, but I hadn't really lined up a community that I could bounce questions off of, ask questions about, say, invoices or proposals or pitching or any of that kind of stuff.
And I think that slowed my progress as I launched my own business as a freelancer. I can remember back in my agency days, which was a long time ago and we're working with freelancers and freelancers would come into the office and I think, man, how are they making this work? How are they getting this stuff done? How are they pitching their clients? And just having had even five or six people that I can bounce those kinds of questions off of I think would've made it a lot easier. So that's number one. Number two, I think when I launched my own business, I didn't realize how powerful it is to be able to identify a problem or a pain that my client is having to go right at that. And so my first few pitches to clients I went out and I basically get an appointment to go sit down with them using my network whatever, to get it into the conference room with them and then I just say, "Hey, what are your copywriting needs?"
And I'd let them figure out how I could help them instead of the other way around. And I think it's much more powerful when you can come in and say, "Hey, you need help with this kind of content. I can put together a strategy. I can deliver this for you, X, Y, and Z." Or, "I noticed on your homepage you're not collecting emails. I can put together this kind of a lead funnel for you." Or whatever the problems are, I think I could have done a lot better on that. And then number three, biggest mistakes that I've made, and I still make this mistake, is I don't charge enough. And not necessarily being aware of how much value a client gets from the work that we do, I think that just holds us all back and I still want to win the business.
And so when I know that I'm sending out a proposal or whatever, oftentimes I'll still cut down my prices below what I think I really should be charging them because I want to make sure that I get the business, right? So those are maybe the three biggest mistakes as I look back. They're not necessarily specific to a particular client, but really specific to the kind of business that we all run. How about you?
Kira: Well, just wondering, when did you start your freelance business? So when you're talking about, I didn't have a network, what year was that?
Rob: Yes. So I mean, I freelanced the whole time that I've worked, right? So I've always had kind of a backup job or I've had my own company or whatever. And so I was always doing freelancing through there. I launched my own business in 2016 really hardcore going out only doing copywriting only, that kind of stuff. And again, I had my own company from 2014 through 2016, so I was freelancing at that time, but I also had the SAS company that I had that was bringing in revenue. Once I sold that off and I was all in, that was about 2016.
Kira: Cool. I want to circle back. So it would be cool to talk about if you're comfortable with it today selling your SAS company at some point, and just the steps it takes, because I'm really interested in that. So I'm going to-
Rob: And I probably did it all wrong. If we talked about it, you'd be like, oh, Rob, you could have had so much more money or I don't know. So let's talk about some of the mistakes you've made-
Kira: That would be cool.
Rob: ... that made you raise this question.
Kira: Yeah. So I think for me, when I look back, it was almost not knowing that I could really say no and not knowing that saying no when you're growing fast is actually a really smart way to grow in a smarter way. So not even just about burnout, but just like about doing quality work and really building strong relationships with clients, when I look back, I just kind of said yes to everything and I didn't even think it was an option to say no. I think it was just like not in my mindset or head just that you should probably say no and not stack everything. I almost was like, I think this is just how it's supposed to be, this is just how it's supposed to feel. So when I look back, I can think of specific clients where I think the quality of work was always good.
Like I don't look back and ever say, wow, I really failed that project or I didn't put in enough effort into that project, but I do look back and I feel like there are certain projects where I worked with junior copywriters on them, I always did, and maybe it wasn't as good as it could have been if I would have given it more of my attention rather than spreading myself so thin across so many projects at one time. And so that was like when I was working on eight projects at a time and I just look back and I'm like, what were you thinking?
And so I can think of a couple of specific ones where, again,
