Nick McGowan (00:02.41)

Hello, and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show, I have Paul Rivera. Paul, how you doing today?

Paul Rivera (00:11.975)

I’m doing great, Nick. Thanks so much for having me.

Nick McGowan (00:14.118)

Absolutely, I’m glad that you’re on. I’m excited to have the conversation. I feel like we were just talking about things and at one point I was like, we just need to hit record. And I didn’t say that to you, but I’m thinking like, we’re just gonna have a great conversation. So let’s get this started then. Why don’t you tell us what do you do for a living and what’s one thing that most people don’t know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Paul Rivera (00:25.327)

I thought the same. This is great.

Paul Rivera (00:34.558)

Okay. Um, so I am the vice president, co-founder of B act change. Um, that’s what I do for a living. We, we like to tell people that we’re in the business of impacting lives, you know, so, um, we work primarily with individuals, with small businesses, uh, with NGOs internationally, um, helping them find their mission, their vision, their purpose, how to align their actions to it and how to remain resilient when life gets tough. So that’s, that’s what we do. That’s our

That’s our passion and that’s, but it’s the, I think it’s the greatest thing I’ve done in my career. I think we’ll talk more about my career as we move on a little bit, but this, that’s what we’re doing right now. As for something people don’t know. So a lot of people who know me know that I was a lifeguard in a, in a past life. Uh, I’m from Los Angeles originally. Um, what people don’t know is that I have almost 350 registered rescues. Um,

And it’s interesting because, you know, not, not everything that’s, that’s a rescue, technically speaking is, you know, Baywatch and go out and swim out and all of that. You know, none, you know what I mean? Most, I would say most of them are actually, uh, you know, small kids that are on the shore who shouldn’t have been there. You just kind of yank them up and take them, but a good somewhere between a third and, and a half of them are actual things where you’ve, where you’ve gone out and had to pull somebody out, you know, and that’s, that’s pretty

Nick McGowan (01:36.962)

Yeah, sharks coming out of nowhere.

Paul Rivera (01:58.262)

amazing in a lot of ways because, um, you know, I’ve always been someone who wanted to be, uh, useful being useful was really important to me and, and being, um, somebody, somebody who’s good in a crisis kind of a thing, you know, and that was, that was really good early training for me in that, in that regard. And, um, you know, it’s, it’s really different, you know, you, you.

You don’t get to meet a lot of people who’ve had that kind of opportunity to say, there are a bunch of people out in the world who are walking around now because of what I did, you know, and that’s, it’s a nice feeling. It’s a, it’s a good thing.

Nick McGowan (02:36.354)

Yeah, that’s an awesome thing to say. I got to be honest with you, there are certain times where I’m a bit jealous of my dad and brother who are both firefighters, where they have that sort of stuff. Like they’ve told me different stories, almost just like, just passing by like, oh, by the way, somebody drove drunk into like the second story of a house, I had to pull them out before the car exploded. Like, do you want another piece of chicken? I’m like, what the fuck? Like, let’s go back to that. Like,

Paul Rivera (03:00.13)

Hahaha.

Nick McGowan (03:03.47)

Last night I did something totally different that was with me and like some client or something. I didn’t save anybody’s life or we didn’t deliver any babies. And there are people that can’t say that stuff at all. So I’m glad that you hold some pride with that.

Paul Rivera (03:11.266)

For sure.

Paul Rivera (03:16.638)

You know, it’s one of those things that’s followed me through my life though, you know what I mean? Because there’s that part of it. And then there’s similar to what you say. Like my dad’s a mechanic. And my dad always came home every day from work, like really satisfied in a lot of ways, because he knew exactly what he accomplished that day. You know what I mean? Like things were broken and now they work because of what I did, you know? And me in that past life, you know, there were people who were in trouble and they needed help.

Nick McGowan (03:36.323)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (03:45.354)

and they’re okay now because of what I did, you know? And the thing is that my career has gone a totally different direction, you know? I’m a, I have a PhD in economics. I do all these other things, but the tangibility of the value of what you did is harder, you know what I mean? Even in the coaching business, you know that you’re working with people, you know you’re changing their lives, but you don’t see the immediacy of it, you know? And it’s tough. It’s one of those things that I find it.

Nick McGowan (04:03.588)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (04:09.89)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (04:13.502)

I find it hard. Like I was actually a professor, a college professor for a long time. And, you know, it was one of the things that I struggled with the most at that time was really feeling that I was doing something valuable. Like, what did I do today? You know, I went, I talked to some people, I did some stuff and did it really mean anything? I don’t know. You know, it’s kind of, it’s interesting. It’s definitely a mindset that’s been ingrained in me throughout my life of wanting to feel

Nick McGowan (04:33.89)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (04:42.83)

that what I’m doing is really making a difference, you know?

Nick McGowan (04:47.182)

Big time, well, I think everybody wants that, even if they don’t really talk about it. And I think if they’re not talking about it, there’s trauma. There’s something that’s blocking them from wanting to talk about it. You brought up the vision, the mission, and helping people with their purpose. And that just strikes all the chords with me. I mean, that’s what we’re all about. And what you’re talking about, even though it’s different than being a lifeguard,

Paul Rivera (04:53.356)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (05:07.851)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (05:15.574)

and being able to have that tangible, like I saved this child from being eaten by a shark or like just fallen face first into the sand and not being able to breathe or whatever. Like you, you physically did that and you could check that off and be like, this is what I did today. There are things that are a little bit more intangible as you’re saying, but I think that they have much deeper roots to them if we really start to break them down and figure that out.

Paul Rivera (05:42.326)

I think so too.

Nick McGowan (05:42.402)

And it’s really not as different as what you were doing before. You’ve just done it in a different way.

Paul Rivera (05:45.394)

If you’re, I think you’re absolutely right. One of the things that, um, my, my wife and I always talk about is that I’ve, I’ve spent a lot of my adult life actually feeling like I was, um, like I was a frustrated doctor. Like I should have been a doctor. And I talked to, I used to talk about all the time that, man, I wish I’d gone to med school. And you know, there were lots of reasons why I didn’t most of them my own fault. But as you look back, you know, when, if you talk to, if you talk to five

Nick McGowan (05:59.717)

Hmm.

Paul Rivera (06:13.878)

five, 10 different doctors, they’ll all give you different reasons why they wanted to become a doctor. You know, some of them love the science of it. Some of them love the, um, the money, some of them, you know, and, and for me it was very much the same idea of I wanted to help people, you know, and I wanted to help people. And, and I’ve come to understand that the characteristics of what a doctor does are actually not that different from what I did as a lifeguard. And it’s not that different from what I do now.

Nick McGowan (06:24.332)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Rivera (06:40.778)

You know, and it really brought me a lot of peace because it was something that I struggled with for so long going, man, I took the wrong fucking path in my life. And and only to realize, you know what? Actually, I didn’t. I’ve helped tons of people. I’m still doing that work. And it’s and it’s still that same kind of impact that I’ve always wanted to have, which is which is great.

Nick McGowan (07:03.03)

Yeah, the power of perspective, right? You know, being able to look at it and go, huh, oh yeah, I’m sure that was one of those moments, like as soon as it happened, you were just like, I feel 40 pounds lighter. Like, yeah, that just makes a ton of sense. Life is good now. You know, let’s actually think about those people that are unsure of what their purpose is or what they’re here to do, and they’re just frustrated. They have no idea what the hell is going on. I’m sure you probably have people that have at least an idea like, hey, I wanna do this.

Paul Rivera (07:13.531)

Exactly.

Nick McGowan (07:32.918)

And I want to kind of work from here or I’ve been doing this thing for a while. Likewise with us at Choose Your Calling, we have people that are like, I think I want to do this thing and then, but there are still people that are like, I don’t know what the fuck I’m supposed to do or why the fuck I’m here. But I know that I’m not supposed to remove myself from the planet. And there’s something inside of me. You went along that journey trying to figure out like, what is it and then being able to step back, you know, hindsight being 2020, you can look and see the thread.

even if you’re like, oh man, I got really frustrated a lot of those times, because I had no idea that it was still the same thread. What advice do you give somebody that’s trying to figure out what that thread is for them and trying to differentiate between like, what their purpose is or what their passion is, or just what’s a fucking hobby?

Nick McGowan (08:26.49)

Hmm

Paul Rivera (08:28.292)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (08:46.326)

gone astray, you know, and I can tell you with great certainty that I have yet to meet or work with anyone for whom that’s true. Really, you know, people, people have, I fundamentally believe that everyone has a purpose. Everyone has a reason why they’re here, has something unique to contribute and that try as you might, that is going to leak out in your life. You will find ways, you know, maybe imperfect, maybe not the way that it should have happened.

Nick McGowan (08:54.682)

Hmm.

Paul Rivera (09:15.126)

but it doesn’t mean that it’s not happening. You know, so for one, I would encourage anyone who’s out there going, you know, really lost, I don’t know what the fuck is going on kind of a thing. To one, be gentle with yourself, you know, because that part of you, it’s part of you. It’s not something you can erase. So it’s finding its ways and all we’re trying to do is find the way to sort of unleash it, untap it, you know, so that it can actually.

come to fruition and flourish. And then the second part is, man, I don’t know, I don’t know about second part. There’s just so many aspects to it. One thing is, for example, that it’s not something that you do alone. We talk a lot about, it’s my individual purpose, but I function in society and I function in a community, and you need to build that community of supporters. I’m Latino, I’m first generation American.

Nick McGowan (09:55.012)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Rivera (10:13.174)

Um, and I come from a very traditional kind of background where this kind of conversation is not the conversations that we have, you know, this idea of, of vulnerability. In fact, in this sort of, in my sort of machista culture, just the concept of vulnerability itself is something that’s looked down upon, you know? And so for me, a big part of why I do this work, why we work with these clients, why we wrote this book, um, is really about starting to change that conversation that.

Nick McGowan (10:21.493)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Rivera (10:42.122)

Vulnerability means that I am strong enough to show you where I am uncertain, you know, and, and really starting to change that conversation. So part of, part of finding yourself and finding the places where, where you can go and flourish is finding the people that are going to help you in that journey, you know, the people that are going to support you. So, you know, and it’s not that you have to have a whole crowd of cheerleaders, but you gotta, you gotta find the people that are going to support you.

and then the champions that are going to be there with you, you know, the ones that are going to, I was just telling somebody the other day, you know, the person, there are people who are happy for you when you win. And then there’s the people that when you say, you know what, I have this. Hair brained idea up my ass, and they’re the ones who say, yes, that is genius. That is a hundred percent you, you have it in you. The ones who like believe in you more than you believe in yourself. Those, those people are golden, you know.

Nick McGowan (11:30.572)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Rivera (11:39.514)

And a lot of the work that we end up doing is showing people that there’s community out there for them that they didn’t even know. For us as entrepreneurs in this journey, we didn’t really have people in our circles that were familiar with that. And we found, of all things, a great, really supportive entrepreneurial community online in Australia. So

We’re on the time, we’re all the time now chatting with, with people in Australia, bouncing ideas off and, and it’s just the, so invigorating really to have people who, uh, who connect with you that way, you know, and, and it’s something that, that really gives you not just motivation, but gives you that resilience to keep going because you see that there are ups and downs, there are, there are times when you kind of want to quit, but you know, when you, when you have that accountability with folks, it really keeps, it really keeps, um,

keeps you going. It’s really nice. How do I say? Thinking about my upbringing where none of that was really possible. I don’t want to get ahead in the conversation a little bit but one of the things that has been really impactful in my life in a really strange kind of way.

Nick McGowan (12:57.382)

Carry on.

Paul Rivera (13:07.242)

Um, has been the separation of my parents, which sounds super cliche except, except for the fact that it happened just a few years ago. So, so I’m, you know, I’m, I’m going to be 52 in a couple of months. You know what I mean? So I’m not, it’s not one of those things where I was scarred by my parents’ divorce in my teenage years or anything like that. And it’s not that it was that it, that it’s scarring really, you know, it’s one of those things that

my sister and I talk about how it’s something that probably should have happened in the mid 80s. So it’s something that’s been a long time coming. But once it finally happened, there was so much information that came out, things that we didn’t know before, conversations that we were kind of forced to have. And we realized that our whole upbringing, my sister and I realized that our whole upbringing was based on…

Nick McGowan (13:40.336)

Hmm.

Paul Rivera (14:03.45)

the importance of maintaining a facade. That that the most important thing was the illusion of happiness. Forget happiness. The illusion of happiness is what was most important. And so as we go back and we’re sort of reanalyzing everything in our childhood, you know, we talk a lot about my sister and I talk a lot about how we never felt comfortable confiding in our parents necessarily when we had struggles and.

Uh, and it all makes sense now, right? Because it was about everything was about, you have to cover up that struggle. You don’t talk about that. Um, which means then it translates to a lack of authenticity. You know, that, that what’s accepted and what’s normal is this lack of authenticity. Um, and I really liked, uh, when I, when, when I got, when I sort of found your show that it’s called the self mastery show, um, because, because I.

Nick McGowan (14:43.527)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Rivera (15:00.466)

I focus now so much on this concept of authenticity, right? Because this has been my quest since then. Like, once you realize that so much of your foundation as a person, as a child, was based on this idea of being inauthentic, I kind of have no choice but to go the other way, right? I have to go deep on this now. And so this idea of authenticity fascinates me and I love it because the root.

of the word authenticity or authentic is an ancient Greek word which means master of oneself. So the person who is most authentic is the one who has mastered themselves, has really delved into the knowledge of them and who they are and what their purpose is and how they’re going to live their life. And they understand that the true authenticity comes from having your actions reflect what you feel inside. You know, and so that’s been a huge quest for me.

It’s been something that’s so different from my upbringing. You know, and so sort of thinking about like people who are out there and are, and are struggling and are lost, you know, they’re just because you were weighed down with something in your past that, that has prevented you from, from having the kind of growth and having the kind of self-knowledge that, that you wish you had, it doesn’t mean that that’s not possible for you. You know, it’s, it’s something that

It takes it takes time, it takes effort, it takes a willingness to talk about things that you’ve never talked about before, and many of them really painful. Um, but I can tell you that it’s completely worth the journey because there’s the piece that comes with that afterwards, you know, the piece that, that you are acting, then you are behaving and you are as your, as your true self and, and moving towards the thing that really fulfills you, you know, and there’s, there’s nothing like that.

Nick McGowan (16:52.73)

Yeah. You’d mentioned earlier about how some people, um, and I’m sure a lot of people won’t just outright say this, but they’re afraid to ask those questions because what if what I’m doing that I’ve been doing in my career for 20 years, 30 years, whatever it’s been that it’s all wrong. And I’m afraid to ask these questions, but as you talked about earlier, once you start asking those questions, you might end up in an entrepreneurial community in Australia. Like.

But you had to go through all those things to get there. Likewise with our own journeys. Now authenticity in some ways is sort of a buzzy word. You know, like people like to be real authentic. But it’s similar, I think, in the sense of like, people really wanna be able to be them, but a lot of times they’re not really sure of who the fuck them is. They don’t know who they or what they mean or what they want or how to do things because there are things that are

really historical trauma, like your parents, the facade of that. And a lot of people grew up with that. That’s almost like put dirt on it, get back fucking the game. It’s like, no, I need to process through this stuff. We need to heal this. We need to get out of our bodies instead of just latching onto it. So when people talk about being authentic, I think sometimes we look at the things that are surfacey and just live there. Instead of going, all right, well, why do I really like this? What?

Paul Rivera (18:04.096)

Exactly.

Nick McGowan (18:20.866)

does this really do for me? And tying our purpose into it. I’m really glad that you brought up that your purpose isn’t just a solo mission. Because even if it feels like it’s all about you, it’s got to be about contribution. It just, I don’t see how it can’t. To put it simple enough, like it has to have contribution in it. But we also need to look in ourselves to understand what I see this as an authentically me thing. But is it?

Is it selfish? Is it part of your purpose? Is there contribution in it? And how do you go with that? So I’d like to go a little further with this. When we talk about authenticity, uh, of how a lot of people kind of just stop at the service level and now I think you and I’ve probably done. I don’t know miles upon miles of deeper work when it comes to that. If not like Marianna’s trench sort of work. Uh, but trying to figure out like, how do we.

actually undo all the nonsense, find out who we are, and fucking break ourselves as we go through it. We joked a little bit about sitting in like the deep end of things and like being in the dark and working through that stuff. Let’s talk about authenticity because are you in alignment with me on that or you totally opposite? Because either way it’ll lead to a good episode.

Paul Rivera (19:38.482)

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No, I think I think we’re very much on the same page on that. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:49.182)

So when we think about authenticity and for the people that are listening to the episode that they’re like, yeah I want to be authentically me I think there’s a purpose in what you’re doing with whatever your hobbies are and sometimes it’s okay to be able to look at those things that are Outside of that like I’ve brought up on the show before that. I Got a divorce almost two and a half years ago. And after that I’d ask myself the questions What were some of the things that I pushed to the side that I thought weren’t right to be in a marriage? Or I needed to be an adult about things or whatever

Some of that, or one of the things was sports cards, getting back to sports cards and memorabilia. And as I unpacked that even more, I understood that it wasn’t as much about the cards themselves as it’s the pieces of art, it’s the treasures that you find, and it’s also the meditation that I go through when I go through and organize or soar and all that sort of stuff. And it just opens up so much. And I think that’s where some people will get to that authenticity. They’re like, I like this thing. Here’s where I stay.

and they don’t go deeper into it. And that’s really where our growth comes from. I believe that’s where our growth comes from because if you just stay on the surface of that, it’s just a bunch of fucking buzzword salad at that.

Paul Rivera (20:56.466)

Yeah. I mean, I think I couldn’t agree with you more for, for me, a big part of it was realizing, going, going through some exercises to realize what my personal values are. So that was really, really critical for me, you know? So I, I went through some, through a good amount of work to realize that, for example, the most important thing for me, like by far the most important thing is growth and, and growth on multiple levels, right? Growth, emotional growth, spiritual growth.

Nick McGowan (21:08.193)

Mmm.

Paul Rivera (21:26.47)

Um, intellectual growth. Um, and then, and then after that, basically this idea of it came up, the word came up diversity and it’s not diversity necessarily as in the DEIA kind of thing, but I’m somebody who, who really values, uh, different experiences. You know? And so this, I mean, and anybody who knows me, this makes anybody who’s friends with me and is listening to the show is definitely going, yes, that sounds like Paul, right?

Nick McGowan (21:55.007)

the

Paul Rivera (21:56.134)

I love to cook, I’m a black belt in jujitsu, I’ve traveled over a hundred countries, all kinds of things. And like, I really need that stimulation from diversity. And then love is really important for me, not just in the sense of being loved, but having someone to whom I can give love. And things like that. So those are some of my core values, growth, diversity, love.

And for me, starting from that place gives me a filter for understanding what it is that I want to do and how it is that I should proceed. And that helps me tremendously with remaining authentic to myself. I was divorced before as well. And there were a lot of things that I realized.

Um, I could have done differently, not that the outcome would have been any different of the marriage, but I could have done differently, you know? And a lot of it comes down to my lack of authenticity. I was, I was, you know, this was many years ago at this point. And I was, I was not somebody who had done all of that work at that point. Um, and I, I realized that so many of the choices that I made were for what I thought was her benefit or for the benefit of our relationship, but it

by definition was at my own sacrifice. And there comes a point where that’s not sustainable anymore, right? Because you’ve given up of yourself. You’ve relinquished a part of your own self, your own being, your own authenticity. And that hurts, that takes a toll, whether or not you realize it in the moment. So for me, having that core, that centering of the values for me, any decision that I make, I understand that

whether it is something that is aligned to those values, something that speaks to me on the inside and is therefore something that I’m doing authentically for myself, you know? And that’s a hugely important thing, you know, because I would say that, you know, the work I do now, it’s probably the hardest working that I’ve ever done. You know, like…

Paul Rivera (24:17.598)

I’ve done a PhD, I was a professor, I was a diplomat overseas representing the US government, all kinds of things like that. But I think this is probably the toughest job that I’ve had. But I love it. Why? Because it pushes me to grow. It’s growth, right? It’s pushing me out of my comfort zone. It’s…

Every day is different. You know, some, some days I get to do something cool, like talk to you. Other days I’m working on marketing. I’m working on tech. I’m doing other days. We’re working with clients. So every day is different. And that’s hugely important to me. It’s something that my, that my wife and I do together. And so the, for me that, that’s part of the love piece, you know, so all of this really brings together my, my values and that’s hugely important to me. So even though I know that I’m busting my butt, I feel better inside than I’ve ever felt in my life.

You know, and that’s, there’s no substitute for that.

Nick McGowan (25:12.346)

That right there is how you know you’re living your purpose. Like even when shit’s tough and you’re like, fuck, this sucks or this hurts or this, that, or like this is a lot. If you still feel that movement and that power along with you, and there’s even a sense of peace that’s back there, it may be quiet at times, because you’re like, there’s a lot going on right now. That’s still there and still moving you along. That’s huge.

Paul Rivera (25:15.616)

Exactly.

Nick McGowan (25:39.83)

I want the listeners to take note of that because this is an actual live example of living your purpose and that’s how that shit feels. It’s not always the easiest fucking thing and it’s not every day that you wake up and you jump out of bed and you’re like, we’re ready to tear apart the world. Let’s do these things because you still have stuff and there’s humans involved in especially as a business owner where you’re like, fuck is this project done? Is this done? Is that person? Do we have this other thing? What am I having for dinner? Like at least maybe that’s my stuff. But

Paul Rivera (25:47.088)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (25:55.765)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (26:05.494)

I know that you just you just you just mirrored my day throw in the two kids and getting them to school and all of that and it’s just crazy shit every day.

Nick McGowan (26:12.419)

Yeah, well, shit, sans children on this side, but I mean, yeah, God bless you for that. But that that’s a great way to look at things with the, the values that you have, I think of principles, principles values almost the exact same. And it’s what we look at, it’s like the lenses that we get to look at these things through. But if you don’t know what those are, you don’t know what to look through. And I

Paul Rivera (26:17.07)

I’m gonna go to bed.

Nick McGowan (26:38.51)

I had a client maybe two years ago at this point, a coaching client that got really frustrated with me, which that’s when you know you’re doing good work. And they’re like, fuck you. God damn it. You’re right. No. And like, I haven’t said anything, you know what I mean? I’m like, I posed one question and they went off. But they were like, I don’t know what my fucking values are. And every time I think about it, I just think it’s bullshit. It’s like good. Now we can talk about that. Let’s figure out what the values are and what the principles are.

Paul Rivera (26:47.946)

I’m sorry.

Paul Rivera (27:02.611)

Exactly.

Nick McGowan (27:05.678)

And being able to work with that client specifically on that, like, I think they got two of their main values and like that 40 pounds kind of lifted off them. They’re like, oh, well, shit. This is why these other things have made me feel these different ways. This is why I was triggered in these different ways by my coworker or whatever. So being able to understand what those values are can be huge. But I do want to call out that I think some people are just like, ah, fucking buzzwords. Values and principles and all that shit. So.

what would you suggest that somebody starts with? If they’re either in that mindset or they’re like, look, I’ve tried with values and principles, but I still have these other things. Now it might be trauma, it might be codependency, there might be a slew of things that are subconsciously eating at them. But if they can pinpoint at least a couple of values, what are some of the core ones that you’ve seen with clients that you work with that we as humans can all kind of latch onto?

Paul Rivera (27:59.958)

You know, I completely agree with you on the idea that a lot of people see these things as very buzzwordy and as you work with clients, they tend to give you buzzwordy things. So for example, I will tell you that I think that the most common one that I have heard is family. People tell me

Nick McGowan (28:23.937)

Hmm.

Paul Rivera (28:29.354)

It’s not that I think that they’re lying to me or anything like that, but I do think that family is too big. So whenever somebody says that, it leads to much deeper questioning about, you know, what is it about family? Is it comfort? Is it support? Is it love? Is it actually something else? Right? So there’s a lot of that. For the people who…

Nick McGowan (28:40.033)

Mm-hmm.

Paul Rivera (28:59.522)

are doubters that maybe not naysayers, but at least doubters, you know, I, um, I go backwards and I, and I go sort of positive and I think about what are the things that you’d love to do. If you’ve mentioned like hobbies and passions a couple of times, um, I go to that a little bit because sometimes that it’s a different entry entryway to it. And I’ll give you my example. I love to play the guitar.

I sound like absolute shit on the guitar. I first picked up a guitar when I was about 10 years old, so it’s been decades and I sound like garbage, okay? However, I love it, I love doing it. And so if I said that I love playing the guitar, people would understand that, but that’s not really what I mean, right? It’s not that I’m making beautiful art on this guitar. What I am doing,

Nick McGowan (29:53.72)

Hmm.

Paul Rivera (29:58.83)

is it’s very much an exercise in mindfulness for me because it forces me when I’m doing that. I can’t think about anything else. I can’t do anything else. I have to concentrate on this. And it takes all of my mental energy. And that for me is something amazing because I’m someone for whom at any moment in time, I’ve got 1000 thoughts racing through my mind and you know, and for me,

being able to come down and focus on that one thing is beautiful. Right. And so what, so it’s not that I love playing the guitar. I love the peace. I love the mindfulness. I love the calm that it gives me. And so I think that I like to talk to people the same way about the values idea. It’s not that you want family necessarily. You want the comfort. You want the peace. You want the support. You want the love. Right. And so, so taking people through that, not, not so much just about the thing or the.

activity or the word, but the deeper feeling that goes behind that. For me, my experience has been that takes away a good amount of that. That, oh, this is just a catchphrase that I’m that I’m using, you know, and because I’m connecting it to something that that’s much more meaningful to me. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (31:14.126)

It makes sense why people do it too, you know, like think about it if somebody’s like I don’t know what to say But i’ve heard these words so many times on instagram So, uh, here are these fucking words like stop looking at me um But that’s a prime example of Taking something from the surface and going. Okay. Well, what is it? What is it that I like about this? Like I appreciate i’m a musician. I do play guitar I like to think that I do make beautiful music and art from it. So you’re

Paul Rivera (31:16.193)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (31:24.508)

Exactly.

Paul Rivera (31:39.75)

Well…

Nick McGowan (31:42.03)

honesty and vulnerability of like, I love this, but I’m not good. I think if you looked at that, and you thought like, I have to play this thing, and it has to sound good. And that’s that, then you wouldn’t go any further. You would live at that surface instead of going deeper with it and saying, this is for me. And this is something that helps me like when you think about doing things that maybe aren’t directly affected to your, or attached to your purpose.

Paul Rivera (31:55.692)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (32:10.134)

or what you are all about and like your, your meaning in life. Sometimes you need to do things that are outside of that, that helps you just rest a little bit to then be able to do even more or something slightly different. And maybe I’m not saying this the right way, but the thing that keeps coming to mind is like doing the dishes. Some people, they love doing the dishes because it’s something they get to just stay right there, do those things and then process through the other stuff that’s going on.

or play guitar and go, what do I really like about this? Well, I love these things about it. And that gives me some energy to go back into something else. And it’s again, going those deeper layers and deeper levels. Do you have questions that you pose to clients that are not like a catchall, but something for people to be able to start to spur into that for them?

Paul Rivera (33:01.63)

little bit, you know, the thing is that everyone is so different. You know, I do everything I can to not, to not sort of lump everyone together into one, into one thing. I will tell you something that you just said was I thought really interesting though, because perfectionism is real and perfectionism is a huge weight, you know, and as it, as I come across a lot of people who are going through this kind of, this kind of work, so much of, so much of the barriers that they put up for themselves come down to, I’m afraid I’m not going to do it right.

You know, and I think about, and I think, so, I mean, so the guitar thing, right? Like for me, I would be terrified to have to do to perform in front of people in the, on the guitar. I know that it’s something that I wouldn’t necessarily do particularly well. And so the perfectionism in me would override my willingness or really ability to undertake it, right? However, one of the conversations that we have a lot is that.

If that’s the way that you are feeling, then maybe that’s not your purpose. Maybe that’s not your core, you know? Because I mean, it’s also, it’s not the most comfortable thing to be here. I’m being interviewed, I’m looking at myself on the camera, you know? And I know that this is gonna be thrown out to the rest of the world. That’s a kind of discomfort as well. However, I’m here and I’m doing it and I’m loving it because I know that this is aligned with what I wanna do.

with the reason I’m doing it, you know what I mean? So my willingness to sort of take that self doubt and that perfectionism and put it to the side and do the thing anyway, that’s something that should be an indicator for you that that’s meaningful to you, right? That’s something that hits you at the core. So when we talk to people about overcoming a lot of these mental barriers and really starting to master themselves,

a little more, we know there, there are so many things that we talk about, but one of the, one of the questions that, that always comes up is, and it’s a tough one, but it’s asking people what they have overcome in the past and then what are the tools that they used to overcome them. Um, and, and I would say that it’s, it’s tough because people, it’s the same thing, right? You gotta put, this is why we have jobs as coaches because people don’t want to, they, they’re kind of like.

Paul Rivera (35:28.034)

I don’t know how you say in English. They’re kind of like the donkey that’s sitting down and doesn’t want to move, you know what I mean? They’re a little stubborn and you got to push them a little bit. But to get people to talk about what are the things that they’ve struggled with? What have they overcome? And sometimes it’s really heavy stuff. Sometimes it’s sexual abuse. Sometimes it’s emotional abuse. And sometimes it’s other things that aren’t as heavy, but it’s still something that traumatized that person.

Nick McGowan (35:32.855)

Yeah, the stubborn ass. Yeah

Paul Rivera (35:56.714)

And then asking them, okay, how did you move on? How did you pick up and keep going? And what’s what I think is really powerful about that is not well, one is that realization because maybe they haven’t gone done that work before, but a huge part of what, what I craft as that person’s plan is the integration of those tools into their daily life. So it’s this sort of understanding that

Those are the things that you’ve struggled with. Maybe it’s depression, maybe it’s anger issues, maybe it’s authenticity and you struggle with being yourself. All of those things are gonna keep coming back. Just because you’re an adult doesn’t mean they go away. Just because you got a promotion doesn’t mean that they’ve gone away, right? So a big part of it is showing people how it is that we take those resilience tools that they have.

whether or not you know it, you have a resilience toolkit because life kicks you in the ass and you have to find some way to keep going every day, and so you have a toolkit whether you realize it or not. And then it’s intentionally using those resilience tools to sort of recenter and keep you focused on where you’re trying to go. So for me, so what’s interesting, like the guitar thing is really interesting because in the last few months,

for the first time I’ve started doing things like, like breath work. And, you know, I don’t know, I hope your listeners are relatively aware of this thing, but it is an amazing exercise where through your breathing patterns, you connect with yourself and the energy around you in a way that I had never seen before, but the closest I had come to it was playing the guitar.

You know, was that feeling of being centered and focused? But, you know, it was it was imperfect. And there are all these tools now to really get you out into that space. And so for me, that’s become a resilience tool, right? It’s something that has helped me in the past. I’ve integrated it. And in fact, I’ve found a better tool. You know, it’s not just playing the guitar. It’s actually doing this more formal breathwork that has been.

Paul Rivera (38:10.974)

strangely transformational for me. So it’s a, it’s, it’s a lot of that.

Nick McGowan (38:16.486)

Who would have thought breathing properly? Huh. But it’s not. It’s really not. And it’s interesting because, and I’ve said this so much over the past year, the body is so fucking cool and so interesting because, yes, those tools are created, the resilience tools, some of them are often created by trauma. And if you just look at those tools and go well this is what this is, if it’s

Paul Rivera (38:18.871)

Right? It’s so obvious. It’s not at all.

Nick McGowan (38:45.658)

have to work through that because it’s not really a tool as much as your body’s just like, you’re being an asshole to me right now. You need to go look over here. I need to make sure we’re okay and we survive. Being able to work through that tool can be huge, but you’ve consistently said about taking those steps, asking those questions, being able to figure out like maybe is it the guitar? No, but it’s something else and continuing to try those different things, even from a perfectionist.

standpoint. We’re looking at things from perfectionism. I do believe that most if not all of that perfectionism comes from trauma. Because at some point when you were a little kid, somebody said you can’t or they scolded you for doing something and you just took that as truth and became a story and your body went well, fuck it, here we are. This is what we’re going to do. I love that you’ve been able to point that stuff out. So a few main things that you’ve talked about have been not only your principles, your overall values, but being able to go deeper.

and understand that there’s a lot more to what you can do, but you’ve got to ask that initial question. So let’s kind of go back for a quick second. What sort of advice would you give somebody that’s on their path towards self mastery and they’re in that spot where they’re like, I’m afraid to ask these deeper questions because what if my fucking world changes?

Paul Rivera (40:11.028)

Well, okay.

Nick McGowan (40:12.696)

You

Paul Rivera (40:13.518)

Having been in that situation both personally and with clients, I would say if you’re asking me these questions for one, something in your life needs to fucking change. You’re here for a reason if you’re asking these questions. There’s something with your life that’s not working for you right now. I can tell you that at least for me, when I was personally in that situation,

I was a much younger man, but my body, I love that you mentioned that the body, I think the body knows, you know? And I realized that I was, well, it took me a long time, but I realized that I was definitely being an asshole to my body. You know, I was a much younger man than I am now, but my body was tired. My body was messed up, you know? And I know for a fact that changing my own mindset and my own direction,

Nick McGowan (40:49.187)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (41:11.042)

has been not just transformational for me, but I would literally say something life-saving for me. So when I have a client that says to me, I’m afraid that my life is gonna go another way, my first answer is, well, maybe that’s not a bad thing. So let’s talk more about that. But, you know.

Nick McGowan (41:29.018)

Mm-hmm Yeah

Paul Rivera (41:37.262)

I think people also feel very alone. People feel like there’s nobody out there who understands them, especially when you’re in that moment of crisis. A lot of what I do is try to help people see that all of us, not only have we gone through shit, but we’ve gone through shit that actually looks a lot like yours. It doesn’t…

It doesn’t mean that we feel the same and it doesn’t mean that I completely understand, but I can, I can empathize with where you are. Um, and I can tell you with certainty that there is, that there is a way out. It’s possible that way out, that destination out there looks very different from where you are right now. But. You know,

It ends up you end up having a lot of existential type conversations with folks. You know, it’s that it’s that you have one life and it’s yours and one thing that is really, I think, really important, especially when, as I talk to a lot of like Latino immigrant type folks, you have one life, it’s yours and you don’t fucking owe it to anybody else. You know, and it so much of it comes down to later on.

as things develop, setting limits and boundaries on the folks who are trying to impose on you and impinge on your own progress. But it’s something that you have to see that your life is yours. Yes, I’m thankful to the people who gave me life, but they gave it to me, it’s mine. And so it’s mine to choose the direction that I take and the path that I take and how I go about it. It doesn’t mean that I’m…

ungrateful and in fact as I’ve said the community piece is really important to me but you have to undertake it in your own way otherwise you’re just counting the days you know so one of the biggest exercises that we like to do with folks is actually we start out with a legacy exercise so having folks think about you know you walked out on the street today you got hit by a bus and you died

Paul Rivera (44:02.718)

And you get to see what’s happening at your funeral and you get to hear everything that’s being said. And you know, your, your haters are probably not going to be there unless you’re like a mafia guy, right? But your haters are probably not going to be there. So they’re going to be painting you in the best light possible. And the question is, what are they going to say? And are you happy with that? You know, um, you know, I think about it. There was a time in my life where

They would have said, you know, he was really smart and he was a good professor and you know, he was a good dad and all of these things. And none of those things are bad. But the question is, how does that sit with you? Is that how you want to be remembered? You know, and so think about so then great, let’s create a let’s do the mental exercise of okay, many years from now when I am remembered, how do I want to be remembered?

You know, and I realized I want to be remembered as I want to be remembered as someone who helped people, somebody who helped people change their lives, somebody who helped people turn it around, see their purpose, somebody who brought communities together, you know, that’s, that’s what I want to say, want to be said at my funeral. And so, you know, there’s, there’s a gap, there’s an eight, there’s an A to B there. And if, if you’re in that, in this situation where you’re not sure what to do, you’re not, you’re afraid to go for it.

Think about that, you know, if you died today, what would they say and how would you feel about that? You know, it’s your life, it’s your opportunity to turn things around and to make that move and that it’s never too late, you know. We’ve worked with clients in their 70s who say, you know, you have transformed my life, you’ve sort of given me back this idea of purpose, you give me a reason to wake up in the morning and peace and joy that they never had, you know. So it’s never too late.

to find that in your life.

Nick McGowan (45:59.386)

What a great way to put that. And I’m glad that you ended it with that because people in their 20s, teens, they go, well, I’m never gonna amount to anything. This is all over. And there are people in their 70s, 80s, and 90s that are making changes. Then it’s on us to be able to do that. I think one of the most powerful, yet difficult fucking things to really sit with is that no one’s gonna come help you.

Paul Rivera (46:10.359)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (46:17.713)

right.

Nick McGowan (46:25.29)

You’ve got to start doing things. You can get help along the way. And there’s a lot of help that’s out there. Shit, two of them are right here. Hey. But there’s a lot. But you have to start making those steps and those choices. It’s just like, you and I both know you can’t help somebody who does not want to be helped. You just can’t. I’ve turned people down where I’m like, you don’t want to pay me money because you’re not going to do the work. Like I would love to be able to help, but you’ve got to want it. You’ve got to be able to be there to do that. And…

Paul Rivera (46:31.818)

Yeah.

Paul Rivera (46:40.842)

Absolutely.

Paul Rivera (46:47.233)

Right.

Nick McGowan (46:53.482)

it’s on that person to be able to do it, but no matter what age. So, man, I appreciate you getting into all the stuff you’ve gotten into. I appreciate you being on today. And before I let you go, where can people find you and where can they connect with you?

Paul Rivera (47:05.262)

Sure. Uh, we’ve got a website, B act change.com. Uh, you can find us also on Instagram. We are, we are B dot act dot change on Instagram. Uh, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. I am Dr. Paul Rivera on, on LinkedIn. Um, we have our book that’s out, it’s called creating your limitless life. So it’s basically, it’s so much of what we’ve talked about, but this idea that, you know, once you, once you find your purpose, you align your actions to it and you create those resilience tools.

that feeling is one of limitlessness, you know, of being able to, to conquer the world, to have that fulfillment that, that you’ve always sought out. And so it’s called creating your limitless life. It’s available on Amazon, on Barnes and Noble, your favorite booksellers. We have worth mentioning, you know, we, we come, I mentioned earlier, I’m Latino. We come from this immigrant experience and books were always sort of a savior for, for us when we couldn’t afford coaches and things like that. And so on.

On Amazon, we’ve purposely priced the Kindle and the accompanying workbook, which is also there at 99 cents. And that’s not a promotional price, that’s the price for the Kindle. So we want that never to be a barrier for anyone who actually wants to seek help. And it’s not one of those books that you need to then sign up with us to get the full package. That is our full package, it’s our full thing. And I encourage people to go out and take a look.

Nick McGowan (48:33.602)

I love that. I appreciate that you do that. Accessibility is a huge thing, especially for the people that need it and they want it and they want to be able to do it. We shouldn’t set things at some crazy high bar, especially with coaches and the nonsense of like, everything should be 10 grand or more. Like it doesn’t fucking have to be, especially to help the fucking people. Paul, this has been awesome, man. I appreciate you being on. Thank you so much for your time.

Paul Rivera (48:47.634)

Exactly. Yeah.

Paul Rivera (48:55.903)

Thank you so much.