Nick McGowan (00:00.799)

Hello and welcome to the mindset and self mastery show. I’m your host, Nick McGowan. Today on the show I have Sherry Bucky Brown. Sherry, how are you doing today?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (00:12.582)

I’m doing well, how are you?

Nick McGowan (00:14.323)

I’m good, I’m glad that you’re here. I’m excited to get into the conversation. There’s a lot that we’re gonna be able to talk about and I’m excited for you to share about the new book that just came out and everything that’s kind of gone around all of that. So I’m gonna stop talking now so that you can let us know, what do you do for a living? And what do people not know about you that’s maybe a little odd or bizarre?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (00:38.978)

Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. So I am a Life coach. I’m a new author. I am a budding speaker and I also am a corporate leader and Something that I feel It’s probably would surprise people because when they see me they probably wouldn’t Think this about me, but I can I have a PhD in cursing

which I’m sure you can relate to. So when you said that, I was like, oh, that’s very interesting. It’s funny that a quick story was when my mom was still alive. She had bought my sister a recorder for her Christmas present. And so they had gone to a Christmas party. And so we decided to take the recorder out. And just, you know, kids are going to be kids. And we were just like, OK, let’s record ourselves.

Nick McGowan (01:12.88)

I do, yeah.

Nick McGowan (01:26.016)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (01:38.09)

So we recorded ourselves and then I decided, you know what, this is boring. Let me just, I went into a tirade of cursing and I just went off. So then I’m, you know, being a kid, my mom gets home and I’m like, mom, look, listen to what we did. We recorded this thing. So I knew it was coming time for my tirade. I said, that’s all, that’s, you know, that’s all. She was like, no, let me listen to the rest of it. So I literally shrunk probably.

Nick McGowan (02:01.877)

Oh no.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (02:07.674)

inches and I really don’t remember what happened I just know I think I blacked out because I was caught so red-handed I was like okay but anyway that goes on so I’m still that way till today you just I don’t let it come out too much

Nick McGowan (02:16.245)

Duh.

Nick McGowan (02:24.216)

I’m sure there are specific friends or family members you have that you can literally shoot the shit with and you kind of go back and forth. Do you uh, I’m still I’m still cracking up about just the PhD of it. Like, not only did you do it, but you have a doctorate in fucking cursing.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (02:33.08)

Yes.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (02:40.371)

I don’t know. Yes. It just rolls out. I don’t know where it comes from. It’s like, I mean it just rolls. And I’m like, wow, really? I’m never gonna go to heaven.

Nick McGowan (02:53.016)

I Oh, oh god, if that’s the only thing that stops us. I don’t think that’s it. And I’ve had conversations with people before they’re like, you know, Jesus didn’t curse. I’m like, to hell. He didn’t curse. Are you kidding me that man sat in the side of a temple braided a whip methodically and then went fucking crazy. Of course he cursed. Are you kidding me? What did he do? Please leave? Please, please grab your things and gently walk out. Fuck out of here. That’s not what happened.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (02:55.266)

I’m sorry.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (02:59.534)

I’m gonna go to bed.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (03:05.008)

Right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (03:12.534)

Yeah, exactly.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (03:20.566)

Yes. That’s too funny.

Nick McGowan (03:20.567)

No way. Yeah. Oh, well, so now that I know that you have a doctorate in cursing, it’s interesting because I used to blame I’m from originally from Philadelphia, and I would blame the Northeast, you know, people like, Oh my god, why do you have so much energy? And why do you curse too much? I’m like, why do you not fucking curse enough? And like, you have some passion with things, I would just blame the Northeast. But really, I think a lot of it.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (03:29.836)

I’m sorry.

Nick McGowan (03:49.635)

isn’t just that. I think there’s some trauma to it. You know, there’s people that have traumatic experiences and they don’t know how to handle things or they don’t know how to say things. And I remember somebody said to me years ago, they’re like, you know, you can use different words. Like, yeah, you absolutely can. But I’m also intelligent enough to be able to fucking use the right word when you need to. But do you think that you hold back a bit now? Like,

even in a conversation like this where you can freely do it, granted, it is going to be on the internet and it is going to get out to thousands and ultimately someday millions of people. Um, do you feel like you hold that back because you should look and be a certain way or is it something different?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (04:35.05)

No, I think when it comes out mostly is when I’m frustrated, you know, or, you know, someone maybe pokes the bear, I get frustrated and then I go in, then I go into that little spill like, oh my God, so, and then it just kind of rolls out. But yeah, typically on a day to day basis, I don’t let it come out. But if I get frustrated or, yeah, it comes freely.

Nick McGowan (04:44.874)

No.

Nick McGowan (04:58.891)

Okay. So now I’m getting a little bit more of a picture. So tell me if I’m wrong. You kind of curse like a cartoon. Like you get real frustrated and you’re like, Oh, fucking damn it. So sorry. Just

Sherry Buckley-Brown (05:09.514)

Uh, no, not like that. I, it comes, it comes out. My friend’s like, Sherry, can you teach me how to do that? And I’m like, no, I can’t. It’s just natural. Yeah. My friend’s like, can you teach me how to use it?

Nick McGowan (05:19.683)

I mean somebody want you to teach them. Are they gonna use it? Like you know Sherry taught me this I can put 12 curse words in a nine-word sentence

Sherry Buckley-Brown (05:26.85)

So yeah, exactly, that’s how it comes out really quickly. And they’re like, oh my gosh, she can curse like that? That’s professional.

Nick McGowan (05:38.341)

It is, yeah. Well, you have a doctorate, so it makes sense. So let’s think about as a life coach and as a coach, you and I both know that there are different conversations you have to have with people where sometimes you kind of have to poke that bear or put a little salt in the wound in a sense in a nice way without re-triggering somebody or driving them back into a trauma. But do you find that has allowed you to have

Sherry Buckley-Brown (05:46.338)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (06:04.003)

more open conversations with clients or even prospective clients to be able to work with you.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (06:11.134)

So what I feel is because see I come from I was born in the Midwest I was born in Wisconsin Dairy State and my parents moved there to make a better life for their family and I’m a I’m a I’m the baby of five and so I feel like because of all the Traumatic events that has happened in my life that the empathy I think that I have for

Nick McGowan (06:26.784)

Hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (06:38.954)

people has led me to this coaching. I was natural at it. I’ve been in corporate America, I’ve been a manager and people would just always come to me and ask me, let me run something past you or what do you think about this? And so I was just freely giving information out. And sometimes in your life, because of situations, you have to make a living. And so I ended up in IT and I knew IT would allow me to make a living, right? A good living, a decent living.

But was it my passion? The people part was more in line with my passion and the money was because I needed to survive. I needed to, you know, my sister passed at 40 and I took her two boys in, one was 12 and the other one was, they were 11 years apart, so 21. So I knew I had to make a living. I myself personally wasn’t able to have kids. And so I took them in. I was a single.

Nick McGowan (07:15.252)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (07:39.274)

person, I was trying to climb the corporate ladder, and it was just a big change in my life that, you know, that’s just one of the things like, you know, I lost my mom at 12 too, so it’s really ironic how my nephew’s path and my path crossed. And so I’m saying all that to say the empathy in me I think lends itself well to me being a coach.

Nick McGowan (07:59.435)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (08:09.018)

and me being, what’s the word, patient with my clients and understanding kind of what trauma does to people and they can’t move forward. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (08:24.831)

Yeah, that’s powerful stuff. You know, it’s interesting. I like to call the shit out where I can. You know, there were a lot of people that became coaches during the pandemic and they were like, well, I don’t know what else to do. I guess I’ll become a coach. Then there were a lot of people that became coaches because they were like, well, I need to do something differently. I feel it within me to better serve and help people and guide people.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (08:34.239)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (08:54.111)

And it’s interesting because I’ve had conversations with people where like, there’s like the, uh, the doctorate in a sense that you need to have the systems and understand the things like you need to understand what trauma is, you need to be trauma informed, and if not, you’re just kind of talking potentially a good game. Um, but I really feel like there needs to also be the experiential side of it. Like you need to understand the trauma within yourself and have done the work within yourself to be able to help anybody. And a great thing for any coach is.

You can just be a step ahead to be able to help somebody that’s right behind you. You don’t need to be the Tony Robbins or, you know, somebody who’s done this for 40, 50 years to be able to help somebody. And you can do it as simply as just having conversations with somebody that’s, um, a team member or somebody that you manage, like you’d said it in corporate jobs. Um, but to, to be able to have those experiences that shapes the way that you

Sherry Buckley-Brown (09:27.894)

grade.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (09:46.498)

Right.

Nick McGowan (09:52.667)

that you help those people, but it can also shape the way that you project onto people and it’s on us as the coach to not project and be like, Oh, well, when that happened to me, this is what I did, this is exactly what you should do. But you can have that empathy and that understanding. It’s interesting you bring up patience though, because you know what it’s like to have gone through certain things to be able to be patient, where it can be kind of impatient at times if you’re like, I don’t get it. I don’t know why this is so

Sherry Buckley-Brown (10:04.012)

Right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (10:08.707)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (10:15.522)

Right.

Nick McGowan (10:20.735)

heavy for you, it doesn’t feel like it should be, because then you’re just basically projecting. But let’s talk about the trauma that you had. You lost your mom, and then you lost your sister. I mean, I’m 39. I’ll be 40 in five and a half months, or five months or so. I couldn’t imagine what that would feel like for my siblings to lose me. I couldn’t imagine what it would be like for me to lose them, and they’re younger than I am.

but for you to be able to lose somebody and then be able to have her kids that are now yours and to have that similarity with both of them, if not one specifically, that’s gotta be an interesting dynamic and talk a bit about that.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (11:06.014)

Yeah, yeah, I would, I would agree. I think, um, so it’s funny. So people ask me why now, why the book now? And I say it’s time. Like I had to really sit in all of the things that happened to me from the time that I turned 12, which was a turning point, because I lost my mom to domestic violence and I was 12. The kids got split. Um, I was the baby. So…

Nick McGowan (11:15.499)

Hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (11:33.654)

Two stayed in Wisconsin, the other three went to go live with my grandmother, which I was one of those in Mississippi. That was another whole experience. Mississippi, my grandmother, you know, who was older, who took in three broken kids. And then along the way, along life’s way, you know, I lost my sister at 40 from a heart attack. I lost my grandmother. I lost two brothers from cancer. I’m a two-time breast cancer survivor. So all of that.

has led me to where I’m at today, which like I said, it’s mindset, like it is huge when timing is everything, first of all, you can say all you want and until you can mentally and emotionally be able to move forward, then the person will not move forward. And so in coaching, you have to recognize, somebody could pay you,

Nick McGowan (12:23.415)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (12:29.046)

whatever the amount of money it is that you charge. But if they’re, and then they can waste it, right? They’re not ready because they either won’t do the work or they’re not ready mentally to move themselves forward. And you have to be prepared for that as a coach because it happens and it can happen. And then, you know, you may be the third person that they’ve seen, even from a counseling perspective or therapy, it just takes time and everybody gets to it at a certain, there’s no…

Nick McGowan (12:51.197)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (12:58.434)

no number, no year that you get to it. It’s just when you have decided that you’re sick and tired of being sick and tired of living the same way. And what’s really funny is it could fake you out. Like you think you have healed, you think you have dealt with all of the trauma that has presented itself in your life and then something could trigger you again and you just have to be prepared to recognize it for what it is.

My phrase on trauma is this. I said trauma is, trauma leaves a cemetery of bones walking around in a person’s life and they think they have healed. And it affects them over the years, throughout the generations, over and over again until they’ve decided that they wanna heal or they need to heal. Not even want to, but they need to heal.

Nick McGowan (13:40.936)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (13:52.872)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (13:56.687)

It’s a wild thing to think of those bones that we carry and those ghosts in a sense and how trauma, I love that you can think you’ve done the work but trauma’s like, not fully. There’s depth to it, even different types of ways to go about it. There are people that they don’t wanna have therapy. They don’t wanna do talk therapy at all.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (14:00.553)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (14:10.658)

All right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (14:19.841)

Right.

Nick McGowan (14:26.459)

And that is the thing that stops them from looking at the other forms of therapies, TBT, processing therapy, like deep subconscious therapy, and being able to do all of it. Some of it really works well. Like some people, it’s like they can talk and they’re great and they go through it. Maybe they’ll start to be re-triggered and be able to process through it a bit just through talking. Other people need acupressure and processing and…

Sherry Buckley-Brown (14:37.151)

Yes.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (14:49.358)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (14:53.763)

all the things I subscribe to as much of it as possible. I have an acupressure session coming up next week. I meet with my mental health coach bi-weekly and still go through deep processing with somebody who I think is fantastic but is basically a sadist because she will not let me off the phone without going deep and deep and deep and deep and making sure that the shit is out of your cells. And that’s a big part of it. There’s the semantics of it that I think a lot of people really miss.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (14:57.291)

Right.

Right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (15:17.751)

right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (15:21.026)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Nick McGowan (15:23.511)

Talk to us about that, about being able to, not intellectually understanding that, all right, I’m better now, I feel better, but to be able to get it out of our skin, out of our cells, and out of our own bones.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (15:36.458)

Yeah, I think you have to like, do you ever really heal? I feel the hole that’s in your heart will always be there. But for me, like now mine has a cobweb over it where I had to really put it, I had to put my emotions and my thoughts in place and say to myself, first of all, I had to stop blaming myself for what happened because I was a kid, I had no control over, you know, what happened. And the other part is,

I had to ask myself over and over and over. I mean, I was angry at God. I was angry at the world. I was pissed. For years, I was pissed. I mean, it took me forever to get married because I was like, nobody will ever, ever hurt me like that. Not a man, for sure, will ever hurt me like that again. And I met good guys along the way and I just used excuses like, oh, I’m not ready. You know, like, you know, it’s…

Nick McGowan (16:21.867)

Wow.

Nick McGowan (16:29.728)

Hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (16:32.99)

It’s weird, like I said, it manifests itself in so many ways over the years. But I had to ask myself, is it serving me for where I’m at right now and what my mom and my sister want me to stay in this place for the rest of my life? And would I serve them better by being able to share my story with the world, impact maybe somebody? If my book, I said to my…

Nick McGowan (16:49.256)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (17:01.722)

you know when I wrote this book is like if it touches one person’s life then my job has been done or if it encourages anyone to know that life is not getting nobody told you when you were born into this world that you’re going to guarantee to be happy it’s just not gonna it’s not nobody guaranteed you that but what do you do with it like you’re going to be faced with challenges every if you’re living you’re going to be faced with challenges so what do you do with it though do you stay

Nick McGowan (17:25.502)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (17:28.094)

in that same spot year after year after year, or make little baby steps and then go backwards and then make a couple more steps. And if you’re making steps, I still say that those are steps, but you have to add on to those steps. You can’t keep going back into that hole and hovering or using what happened to you forever as an excuse, you never forget it. It’s a part of who you are. It’s a part of your armor, but you have to know that time goes on, you can’t get it back.

Nick McGowan (17:51.972)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (17:58.198)

And do I want to spend the rest of my life miserable? Or do I want to live the best life that I have for how many ever minutes, years, whatever that looks like, do I want to be happy? And my answer to myself was, yeah. And if anyone comes in my way with like negativity, I just am like, I had to work to get here. So I can’t like let you take me.

in this negative space that’s not really serving me any purpose in my life anymore. I had to forgive myself. I had to forgive my mom. I literally had to just forgive my dad because apparently he was going through whatever he was going through. And back then, there was no counseling that was provided for, at least not to our family, which was unfortunate. So when you don’t even get the counseling, it takes you even that much longer.

Nick McGowan (18:31.167)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (18:55.074)

to heal, you know? And I feel like when my brothers passed, they hadn’t healed because they carried so much guilt. Like I said, it’s, you know, trauma is generational and it impacts you in different, in your health, it impacts you in your career, in your personal lives, how you show up in the world, all of that. It’s unfortunate.

Nick McGowan (19:10.923)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:23.835)

It is but it’s part of what we have, you know, like even Even saying you shouldn’t expect that you’re going to be happy And just that everything’s just gonna constantly work out you still need to have that That back and forth there needs to be the good and the bad and all of that and I do believe that we should be happy you should be but they’re still suffering and Just like Victor Frankl said in the man search for meaning there’s meaning

Sherry Buckley-Brown (19:25.739)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (19:47.35)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (19:53.435)

in suffering and it’s what we do with them. I find that there are people that sometimes get afraid of doing the work because of really the fear of the unknown. They don’t know what it’s going to take to be able to do it but they’re also comfortable with the fucking animal and monster that they have and they don’t know how to break away from that shame or that guilt or the trauma and especially if it’s either historic or generational trauma.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (19:54.57)

Yeah. Right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (20:06.815)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (20:20.735)

That shit just keeps adding and adding and adding and adding and adding and adding. And then you have systemic issues that just make it even worse or pull things away like counselors or anything like that for you to be able to heal that. And be able to work through that stuff. That can be really difficult, but something that has stood out to me as you’ve been talking is that shame, that shame that’s there, where if it’s guilt or if it just shame on you, like you had that shame of like, well, no, I don’t want

Sherry Buckley-Brown (20:35.798)

care.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (20:43.298)

Thank you.

Nick McGowan (20:48.903)

And no man will hurt me like this, but I could, I could imagine that maybe some of that was also, I don’t want to be hurt like this. And maybe I don’t deserve this. And people will wear that as a badge of honor or their shield. And just say, no, this, this is just how I am. Instead of saying like, no, I’m just fucking hurting. And I really need some help. And I need to get this shit cleaned out, cleared out. We can’t drive anybody to

Sherry Buckley-Brown (20:50.71)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (20:56.038)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (21:06.702)

That’s right.

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (21:13.774)

Right.

Nick McGowan (21:16.459)

do that, make that decision, they have to do that. But do you believe that you can catalyze that for somebody to kind of like spur them along, kind of semi-trigger them without pushing them totally into the well?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (21:30.042)

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think you have to, if you’re going to do this role as a coach, I think you have to be prepared for those tough conversations because, you know, why spend your money if you’re not going to get any results from it, right? So you have to have those tough conversations with your client, which I’m very comfortable with doing. And I think for me, because what I’ve gone through, I can push the envelope probably a little bit harder because they can’t say, well,

Nick McGowan (21:38.271)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (21:58.058)

what do you know? You’ve never been through anything before. And I will be like, well, let me whip out how many, let me tell you how many things I’ve gone through. So yeah, I feel like when you’ve walked in trauma’s footsteps and you can, you can really, I don’t know if getting rough is the word I want to use. I just would hold people accountable and hold them accountable for their actions and really ask them if they want to, are they ready right now?

Nick McGowan (22:00.491)

You’re like, let me tell you a couple things.

Nick McGowan (22:27.349)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (22:28.054)

Um, yeah. And so, yeah, I think, you know, like I said, a badge of honor, like all the trauma that I’ve gone through is, is something that I’m not like, you know, parading around, but I also know that I’ve been through some shit. And so, um, I can sit here and say, I could have chosen another path because it’s all about decisions. It’s about, you know, how do you want to show up and do you, are you.

Nick McGowan (22:41.811)

Hmm. Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (22:56.254)

are you sick and tired of this crap? And do you wanna move forward? And how is it working for you? How has this been working for you all these years? So yeah, I think you have to get really, I think you have to get, and the other part too is I think you have to find out what works for your client. Like that one thing that is holding them back where it throws them to alcohol or not wanting to get up in the morning or.

Nick McGowan (23:05.927)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (23:14.409)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (23:23.758)

using it as an excuse. I think if you can hone in and try and find out what that one thing is that they feel like they can’t move forward with, then that’s that will maybe at least move the needle and help you know them understand you know why they do what they do. Yeah.

Nick McGowan (23:40.287)

Yeah. That’s a good, good point too. Um, not all your clients are going to be the same. And for the person who’s on the client side, um, not all coaches are going to be the same and, and work with people the same and everybody’s different. I mean, you bring in personality types, uh, their upbringing, history, uh, even their energetics and how they interact with different things. So if you talk to them that way or kind of treat them the same way that you treated somebody else, it’s.

probably not going to work. So it’s a matter of being able to figure that stuff out. I do find it interesting how a lot of people that are at that precipice where they can make the changes, they can do the work, they’re self aware enough to see it. But they have had years and years and years of kind of traumatic workouts where they’ve just added to the callus. So the callus is just thick. And the fucking story that they tell themselves is what they believe to be true.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (24:37.174)

Right.

Nick McGowan (24:37.915)

And it’s interesting because I’ve had conversation recently and somebody that was on the podcast recently about how there’s a deep fear that a lot of people are really afraid to even talk about of, well, if I start to do the work, what if everything has to change? What if everything I’ve done up till this point was all wrong? And what if my entire life needs to change? And it could be easy for us to go, yeah, what if? Like, you’re right, that that’s a thing. And

Sherry Buckley-Brown (25:01.006)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (25:05.091)

You have probably been through stuff like that. I mean, even as a kid, you went through stuff where life changed drastically and you do those and you can see, look, historically I can get through this stuff. Um, but it’s gotta be super difficult to be able to go through that. So you don’t have to get into the details at all from when you were a kid. But how did that affect your relationships? Uh, and how does that.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (25:11.083)

Yeah. Yes.

Nick McGowan (25:33.263)

how does that affect your life now that you’re able to look back and go, these are the things that I do kind of on the daily to be able to make sure that I’ve got my head on right and I’ve got my heart right. And that I’m in the right spot where I’m able to actually move in a, on a growth path instead of falling back in a bad ways. Like you’d said about, you know, hopping back into drinking or addictions and things of that sort, cause you’re just looking for something you can fucking control and be able to say, I know that I can get the thing out of this or it’ll make me feel such a way.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (25:54.058)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (26:00.502)

Right. Yeah. I mean, so for me, I guess I. So when my mom passed, I literally that was my you know, she was my she was my. I don’t know. I was a I was a mama’s baby and I didn’t understand the book is called Who Will Take Care of Me Now? And that’s because that’s the first thing that came in my mind when my mom passed. But just all of the chaos and changes that happen along the way. I for whatever reason, I kept finding

I wanted to prove a point that I’m still going to survive and everybody don’t have, they don’t have that, right? I mean, some people just fold and some people just are like, I don’t want to deal with it. I’d rather, you know, just close it out. And I don’t know what it was in me that just kept saying, and even when I would get knocked down, I would just kept saying like, I got to figure out a way. Maybe because I was the baby of the family. And maybe, you know, some people said maybe it didn’t impact you as much, but it did. It impacted me.

just as much as it did my older brother, you know, my siblings in the middle. It just impacted me in a different way. So to answer your question, I think…

Sherry Buckley-Brown (27:10.673)

Aye.

decided like, I don’t know, it’s like, I tried to find the humor in things now. I try not to take everything so freaking serious in my life. But I, for years, like I said, I just got here. I really kind of just got to this point where I was like, I don’t care what people think about me, you know, putting this book out, I, I am at a point where I am living my best life. I, I’ve started that, you know, 10 years ago. And then of course I would have my moments, but the deep sitting in the

and the healing took like me, you know, I would go into like meditation. I’ve had people do readings for me. One time I just ran away from everyone. I packed a bag and I went to get a cabin in Oklahoma for like five days, secluded myself all by myself. I was like, I had enough of the world.

Nick McGowan (27:44.299)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (28:12.534)

trauma manifests itself in me. One of the traits was I was a giver. I wanted everybody to be happy. I wanted to protect everybody. And then people started to just come to me for everything. I was such a giver and I was like… and so I was giving all of me and I wasn’t pouring back into myself and then I looked up and I had an empty cup and I was wondering why is everybody else so happy and I’m over here miserable and I just ran away. I was like

And the first night that I was there, that’s when I started my book, and I was like, I’m gonna go there, I’m gonna write, I’m gonna porn to myself, I’m gonna veg, I’m gonna watch movies. And the first night that I got to the place, and I was terrified. I had a gun, a bat, some spray mace. Yeah, I had everything. I was like, okay, so if anybody comes in here, I’m…

gonna go down fighting. So, but the first night I was there, I literally was on the porch and I cried the entire night that I was there just purging and releasing and going back over my life. And I think a lot of women kind of give up a lot and men too probably, but a lot of women, we give so much and then we find our cups empty. And so you just have to, so again,

Nick McGowan (29:12.686)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (29:40.266)

to talk about how I came along this journey is that it’s been a process. It’s been, you know, a couple of years I’d be okay. And when I lost all these people, it would be like, you know, I lost my mom and then we went to go live with my grandmother in a different state. And then, you know, we had never lived with her before. So that was an adjustment at a different school. And then of course she passed and that was another blow. And then my sister passed suddenly. She had been, you know, with me the week before and then I get this call. So every time I thought I was getting okay,

then I get another blow, like somebody in the family would pass, like that was close to me. And I was like, oh my God, what is it that you’re trying to say to me? So it has taken me to now to be like, you know what? This, all of this, all of this trauma is a part of who you are. But you need to like move forward and be happy and know that they’re cheering you on. I had to make peace within me, within my soul.

within my spirit, within my mindset. And it’s just, I don’t know, it’s different for everybody.

Nick McGowan (30:39.713)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (30:48.479)

Well, it can be different for everybody. I give you that. But I wonder the thing that you were talking about that may be something that people that are listening to this could think, or maybe not even bring it up consciously, but you’ve had this pattern where things get good and then somebody passes, you’re all right. And then somebody passes. You’re telling me right now you’re good. So.

Is that a thought and is that one of those things? And how do you manage that? Knowing that you’re not, your happiness isn’t equivalent to somebody needs to die. But that is part of that shame that can be there, that trauma just kind of spins off. So how do you, how do you deal with that? How do you manage that?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (31:33.363)

Yeah, yeah, and I you know, I’ve thought about it like okay So if somebody else major passes in my life, how will I be able to manage that? And of course you’re gonna hurt right and of course you’re gonna be sad But you know you have to know that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger and all of that is just a part of life I get you have to make peace with like we came we were born and we’re all gonna leave this earth at some point period

Nick McGowan (31:58.838)

Mm-hmm.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (31:59.794)

I’m preparing my family, like if something happens to me, know that I have done my work and I live, I’m on the other side of living my best life. I’ve lived most of my life already. And so I’ve found, I’ve held onto those happy spots for me is where I’ve held onto. And I have a good circle of friends that I’ve built along the way that has always been supportive of me. When I had my book launch, I was just, I kept being in awe about.

So many people came through that hadn’t seen in years. And it just goes to show you how you treat people. It comes back to you twofold. They never forget how you treat them. And I’ve always been that person that tries to treat people right, right? So yeah, to answer your question, I think like, yeah, you hurt. Yeah, you’re gonna be sad if you lose someone else. But I’m gonna know that they would have wanted me to be happy and I will be able to pick up the pieces and whatever it is that I need to help. Like my nephew, for instance.

if I need to help. He has two kids now. So whatever that looks like, I’m so strong now and I feel like, I don’t know, it’s a bull that, a pit bull at this point in my life because I know that I didn’t die. I didn’t fold. I felt it. I walked through it. I got back up. And that’s what I’m trying to, that’s what I want to empower people to do. Like get back up. Stand back up. It’s okay.

Nick McGowan (33:11.339)

Hehehehe

Nick McGowan (33:26.924)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (33:28.762)

Yeah, you’re going to hurt your human, unless you just block out feelings. But you need to feel that pain. You have to feel it. You have to sit in it. You have to know that you’re stronger than you believe.

Nick McGowan (33:36.221)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (33:43.351)

Yeah. It’s like figuring out your own difference between being a sadist and a sociopath. Like you don’t want to block everything off and just be like, well, fuck, I don’t feel anything because you need to feel all of it. And it can be difficult to do that on your own. It can. It’s easier for some people to just be able to sit in the deep end of things. I often think of how my partner handles that. She just sits deep. Like if it was a 40 foot deep end, she’d sit 50 feet and sit there for.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (33:49.383)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (34:03.554)

That’s the easy route.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (34:10.54)

Yeah.

Nick McGowan (34:11.827)

weeks if need be to clear it all out and work it all out. And that can be where coach really comes into play to be able to facilitate that, help through that. Also be a beautiful, accountable partner for that. To not let that person just pull themselves out of the deep end, but also give them space to be able to breathe when they need to do that. And you’ve done that work because you’ve had the traumatic experiences. You’ve had the things that have happened to you. And that’s beautiful that you’ve done that. And

Sherry Buckley-Brown (34:32.942)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (34:41.683)

I’m sure if you look back and you say, well, some of these times didn’t need to be this way. I didn’t need to say this to myself or I didn’t need to act that way, but it is what it is and you’ve done the work and now here you are and you’re able to help people. So along those lines, what sort of advice would you give to somebody that’s on their path towards self mastery?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (35:00.263)

I would… Oh, gee.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (35:05.226)

I would say for me, I kept asking myself why, please, my prayer was please Lord show me what I’m supposed to do with my life when I grow up. And excuse me, I didn’t realize I was already doing it. I was already like helping people by them asking me, let me ask you a question. And the reason why I could answer those questions or they could come to me for advice is because I was giving out like everything that had gone through in my life, I was giving them advice from.

my experiences and they felt comfortable coming to me, which I kept batting away. But I would say, I would tell them, if you understand, being self-aware, I think to me, was huge. Really knowing who you are inside and outside, what makes you you, is a huge part of you being able to maybe move the needle and take the steps necessary.

to move forward and when you and the sad part about People in general is that we’d rather not feel the pain and use some other excuse watching reality shows or Drinking or drugs or whatever your advice is, right? Versus Dealing with the pain. It’s easier. It’s just easier to do It’s like you like it’s like if you had a task list in your task list One of the tasks is you something you hate to do

Nick McGowan (36:17.643)

drinking.

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (36:32.918)

I don’t know what that is, but whatever it is, you’re gonna put that on the list last versus you tackling that one first and getting it out of the way because you have this head block. And it’s the same when people are trying to heal. And I think men are really, I’m sorry, but men are really harder in my opinion because they really don’t want to deal with their emotions. And women go over and beyond using, you know, themselves as whatever to not deal with the pain.

Nick McGowan (36:41.063)

Mm-hmm.

Nick McGowan (36:49.515)

Hehehe

Sherry Buckley-Brown (37:02.678)

I would just say know your why, know your why, know you, know yourself inside and outside, know what triggers you. And then if you mess up, start back over. Or you know, like, or if you have a bad day, then just have that bad day. But you can’t take it into like next week, or you know, a couple days. But like have that bad day, get your cry on, let it out. But then start over again and stop beating yourself up. Because that’s what I was doing. I was beating my, nobody had to beat me up. I was beating my own self up to a pulp.

I was on my own worst critic and I’m like, okay, but then I will go out and motivate everyone else, right? If I lay down in bed at night and look at the ceiling and I’ll be like, oh my God, why are you so sad? You have to know yourself.

Nick McGowan (37:36.914)

Hehehehe

Nick McGowan (37:42.051)

Yeah. Well, you also bring up historical trauma again, and the generational trauma, even the differences between men and women. The men that were supposed to just put dirt on it and get back in the game, and the women that should feel through the things or be subservient in that sort of way. And that’s just systemic bullshit. It just, it shouldn’t be a thing. And that’s why

Sherry Buckley-Brown (37:48.895)

Yeah.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (38:04.607)

It is.

Nick McGowan (38:08.039)

That’s part of the reason why I have the show is to be able to not only talk about that, but bring it to light and be able to make the change within ourselves as we do that and see how those differences can be. I really appreciate you getting into the depth that you’ve gotten into and the work that you’ve done. It’s also a pleasure to meet somebody who has a doctorate in cursing. So thank you for fucking being here. So before I let you go, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you and where can they buy that book?

Sherry Buckley-Brown (38:28.345)

Same.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (38:41.455)

Yeah, so www. And of course I have an author, I have two websites, Sher And then my book is out on Amazon. It’s also on Barnes and Nobles online as well.

Nick McGowan (38:53.231)

Awesome. Again, thank you so much for being here, Sherry. It was a great conversation.

Sherry Buckley-Brown (38:56.674)

Thanks, Nick. Appreciate it.