Why do we keep choosing partners who hurt us? In this episode, mental health advocate and author Petrona Joseph joins Leslie to unpack trauma bonds, unsafe love, and the abandonment wound that drives the loop.
▶ WORK WITH LESLIE
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▶ ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Petrona Joseph spent years pushing through panic attacks, depression, and a 17-year on-and-off relationship she now recognizes as a trauma bond. In this conversation she shares the moment her anxiety stopped her on a bridge in rush hour, why she resisted antidepressants for a decade, and how a primary caregiver's absence early in life shaped the unsafe partners she kept choosing as an adult.
Leslie and Petrona dig into the neuroscience of trauma bonds (why they feel exactly like love), what "closing the loop" of a childhood wound actually looks like in adult relationships, and why most men in their 40s, 50s, and 60s still don't have a single safe person to talk to. This one is for anyone who has watched themselves return — over and over — to a person who keeps hurting them, and is starting to wonder if it's something deeper than love.
▶ WHAT YOU'LL LEARN
Why trauma bonds get mistaken for love — and the biological reason the pull is so strong
How an abandonment wound from childhood shapes who you're attracted to as an adult
The difference between an unsafe person and someone who is just imperfect
What it looked like for Petrona to finally accept a depression diagnosis after years of resistance
Why "experiential" mental health advocacy matters alongside clinical expertise
The state of men's mental health and why most men have no safe people
▶ ABOUT THE GUEST
Petrona Joseph is an award-winning Communications Strategist, Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award recipient, and MHFA-certified Mental Health Workshop Facilitator. A trilingual Concordia University graduate in Linguistics, she is the author of Stigmatized: Demystifying Mental Health Illness and the upcoming Unsafe Love: Healing From Trauma Bonds, Betrayal, and Unsafe Attachment. Through Above Healing and Wellness, she has reached over 10,000 people across North America with workshops on resilience and early intervention.
Timestamp:
00:00 Welcome Petrona Joseph
02:10 Thinking in French and growing up multilingual
05:05 From Trinidad to Grenada, New York, and Montreal
08:20 Ambition, law school, and ignoring mental health
13:30 Luxury cars, PR, TV, and finding a new path
19:45 Becoming “the annoying best friend” in PR
22:00 Anxiety attacks and the beginning of advocacy
30:10 The bridge panic attack that changed everything
36:20 Accepting medication and getting support
43:00 Healing is not a one-time fix
49:30 When anxiety affects everyday life
56:00 Going public about panic attacks
1:02:00 Writing about depression and mental health
1:08:00 Unsafe Love and trauma bonds
1:15:30 Why trauma bonds feel like love
1:24:00 Childhood wounds and repeating patterns
1:33:30 Attachment, abandonment, and trying to close the loop
1:43:00 When relationships become a place for healing
1:56:00 What secure love and repair can look like
2:10:00 Building psychologically safe relationships and cultures
2:18:30 Becoming a safe person after unsafe patterns
2:28:00 Mental health crisis support and men’s mental health
2:40:00 Why men need safe spaces too
2:52:00 Petrona’s books and where to find her
2:57:00 Closing reflections and goodbye
Follow Petrona on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iampetronajoseph
▶ CONNECT WITH LESLIE
Website: https://theloomlife.com
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Personal site: https://leslieellenmathews.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.loom.life
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@leslieellenmathews
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#TraumaBonds #UnsafeLove #MentalHealthPodcast #DivorceRecovery #AbandonmentWound #AvoidantAttachment #PullingThreads
