In this episode, Dr. Bryan Pilkington speaks to Dr. Frederic W. Hafferty, professor of medical education at the Mayo Clinic, in Rochester, Minnesota. He is the author of “Into the Valley: Death and the Socialization of Medical Students” (Yale University Press); “The Changing Medical Profession: An International Perspective” (Oxford University Press), with John McKinlay; “Sociology and Complexity Science: A New Field of Inquiry” (Springer) with Brian Castellani, “The Hidden Curriculum in Health Professions Education” (Dartmouth College Press) with Joseph O’Donnell, “Understanding Professionalism” (Lange) with Wendy Levinson, Katherine Lucy, and Shiphra Ginsburg and “Place and Health as Complex Systems: A Case study and Empirical Test “ (Springer) with Brian Castellani, Rajeev Rajaram, J. Galen Buckwalter and Michael Ball.