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In this episode, Alan is joined by Eric Gilbertsen, and they discuss the importance of branding and marketing in today's business landscape and shed light on the complexities and nuances of branding and marketing in the modern world. They reflect on their partnership and how their initial goals have evolved over time. They delve into the misconceptions about marketing and emphasize the significance of the emotional connection that brands create with consumers. The conversation covers topics such as social consciousness, the impact of political affiliations on brands, and the role of failure and risk management in marketing. They also explore the concept of targeting niche audiences versus pursuing mass appeal and examine the evolution of well-known brands like Apple.

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