Shows
Between The PagesBETWEEN THE SCREENS: The Ultimatimum: Queer Love (with @seriously.shelbs)Between The Pages is BACK for a fun new miniseries dissecting some of our favorite TV shows through the lens of gender, sexuality, sex, and power. We're excited to welcome Shelby Graves (@seriously.shelbs), a fellow public health nerd and reality TV enthusiast, to unpack the mess and (maybe?) magical moments of Netflix's The Ultimatum: Queer Love, the first Netflix reality dating show to feature an all-queer cast. We break down gender roles seen on the show, how the producers deal with (or don't deal with) gender presentation and pronouns, what to think about "Fingergate" (u...2023-11-1446 minBetween The Pages36. Halloween Spectacular! Hallmark Romances & Blood Play (with Kristen Coates)It's sPoOoOoky season and we've got a Halloween episode! Caitlin talks with unofficial BTP romance consultant Kristen Coates about all things Halloween romances (can they be done?? what's the difference between Halloween and paranormal romance?). Caitlin and Kristen also loosely discuss The Ex Hex by Erin Sterling for BTP October Book Club (very cute but needs more boning). 'Tis the season for humans and ghosts to have sex, we're just saying._________________________Show NotesThe Immortals After Dark series by Kresley ColeA Heart of Blood & Ashes by Milla VanePayback's A Witch by...2021-10-2846 minBetween The Pages35. 101 Kinky Things Even You Can Do (with Kate Sloan)We're excited to welcome Kate Sloan (@Girly_Juice) back to the show to celebrate the release of her brand-new book 101 Kinky Things Even You Can Do! Kate and Caitlin talk about using kink throughout Kate's writing process, what she hopes the impact of 101 Kinky Things is (in more ways than one), and ways to use the book to introduce kink to your partner. _________________________Show NotesBuy Kate's book at 101kinkythings.comKate's podcasts The Dildorks and Question BoxKate's blog Girly JuiceFollow Kate on Twitter (@Girly_Juice) or Instagram (@Girly_Juice)_________________________You ca...2021-10-2127 minBetween The Pages34. Purity Culture Dropouts with Erica SmithSuch a pleasure to have Erica Smith (@ericasmith.sex.ed) on the show to talk all about her work helping people heal from purity culture through her Purity Culture Dropout program! Erica and Caitlin talk about how she supports queer folks healing from purity culture, how to think about casual sex & dating, and the benefits and pitfalls of Instagram._________________________Show NotesSign up for the Purity Culture Dropout Program The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der KolkSex, God, and The Conservative Church and Shameless Parenting by Dr. Tina Shermer-Sellers Book recs: Ace by...2021-10-1446 minBetween The Pages33. AUTHOR INTERVIEW - Margot WoodWhat a delight to have Margot Wood on the podcast this week talking about her new book Fresh, a "raunch com" retelling of Emma by Jane Austen set in freshman year of college. The main character Elliot is ADHD, bisexual, and utterly hilarious. Margot and Caitlin talk about how a letter to her sister ultimately became Fresh, queer and neurodiverse representation in books, and all the ups, downs, and laughs that encompass sex in college. _________________________Show NotesNeurodiverse queer rep books: Meet Cute Diary Emery Lee, The Extraordinaries & Fl...2021-10-0751 minBetween The Pages32. BOOK CLUB: Come As You Are (with Cassandra @feministsexed)It's book club day! We are diving into one of the most recommended powerhouse texts in the sexuality space: Come As You Are by Dr. Emily Nagoski. Here with Caitlin to discuss is Cassandra Corrado, a superstar sex educator who uses Nagoski's work in her own practice. We break down "accelerators" and "brakes" that impact sex, the importance of context, and ways to expand the work to be as inclusive as possible of trans and nonbinary people. _________________________Show NotesScarleteen websiteYou Deserve Good Sex YouTube seriesBetween The Pages The Monster Under The Bed episodeCassandra's w...2021-09-301h 05Between The Pages31. Fan Fiction Extravaganza (with my BFF Lucy)*CW discussions of Harry Potter, JK Rowling, transphobia in this episode*Calling all current/former internet kids! This week we're diving into fan fiction - the tropes, the "ships," and the queer love we all deserve to see but have to write into our favorite fandoms! Here to talk about it with Caitlin is self-proclaimed fan fiction expert Lucy (aka Caitlin's former roomie and BFF) and she gives you all the tips, tricks, and recs. There's even a little fan fic terminology game that stumps Caitlin but not as much as she thought it would! 2021-09-2340 minBetween The Pages30. How To Fight Better - Bachelorette Style (with Ariella Serur) Who would have thought that The Bachelor franchise could continue to teach us life lessons? Anyone who watched this past season of The Bachelorette remembers Katie and Greg's painful, relationship-ending fight - there was so much that could have been done better, and here to break it down with Caitlin is Ariella Serur @queerdatingcoach. Ariella gives concrete strategies on how to fight better, including keeping the spotlight on the Hurt Person, noticing your emotions, and apologizing with specifics.This conversation actually made Caitlin feel better about that terrible fight - listen even if you're not a Bachelor wa...2021-09-1646 min
Everything is Public HealthSexual Health is Public Health - The Problem with Abstinence Only Sex Ed: Part 2Abstinence only not only doesn't work in its state goal of promoting abstinence, it also has other consequences beyond sex education. In part 1, we defined what abstinence only sex ed is and what cunning strategy its proponents are using to keep the abstinence only curriculum going, in this episode we will discuss the current policy landscape of sex ed in America and what consequences teaching abstinence only sex ed have. Featuring special guest: Caitlin Viccora!Check out Caitlin's Podcast! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/between-the-pages/id1521858696https://www.instagram.com/betweenthepagespod/?hl=en...2021-07-2929 min
Everything is Public HealthSexual Health is Public Health - The Problem with Abstinence Only Sex Ed: Part 1Sex ed is one of those awkward experiences that we don't think about much after it happens. But a proper sex education is important to help the teens and young adults prevent STIs, unexpected pregnancies, and understand their bodily functions. For many of us it was a comprehensive experience, but for a sizable fraction their experience was much more limited or an abstinence only curriculum. In other words, the focus was on preventing sex altogether instead of providing the information to reduce risks. What is the history and origin of abstinence only sex ed? What health impact does it h...2021-07-2224 minBetween The Pages29. BOOK CLUB: The Intimacy Experiment (with Katie @kikiareyoureading)It's book club day and we are gushing about The Intimacy Experiment by Rosie Danan! This episode contains spoilers. Caitlin welcomes Katie @kikiareyoureading to the show, a fellow romance reader and a connoisseur of Disney erotica (don't knock it until you try it). Katie and Caitlin dive into The Intimacy Experiment, including our love for Naomi, the sex scenes, and emotional steam (this book is 5 out of 5 on emotional steam!). _________________________Show NotesKatie's recs: Katee Robert's Wicked Villain series (Disney erotica), Him by Sarina Bowen and Elle KennedyFollow Katie on Instagram @kikiareyoureading_________________________2021-05-2034 minBetween The Pages28. AUTHOR INTERVIEW - Rosie Danan Returns!Between The Pages is thrilled to welcome Rosie Danan back to the podcast to discuss her newest book The Intimacy Experiment! Caitlin and Rosie talk about Rosie’s process in exploring the themes of identity, religion, and intimacy beyond sex throughout the Intimacy Experiment, sex work as a form of reclaiming agency (despite what stigma has society believe), and the ways romance is making room for multiple identities and stories. _________________________Show NotesRosie's debut novel The RoommateJewish romance authors mentioned: Rachael Lynn Solomon, Felicia GrossmanSign up for Rosie's newsletter on her website ro...2021-05-1339 minBetween The Pages27. BOOK CLUB: Kink (with Kate Sloan)*CW: Rape fantasy, nonconsensual role play 11:58-13:46*It's book club day! Caitlin is delighted to welcome Kate Sloan to the show to talk all about Kink: Stories edited by R.O. Kwon and Garth Greenwell. Caitlin and Kate talk about Kate's forthcoming book 101 Kinky Things Even You Can Do, how kink shows up in Kate's life outside of the bedroom, and their favorite stories from Kink (the book!). Slight spoiler for one story in Kink at 23:57. _________________________Show NotesHey Epiphora's sex blogDangerous Lilly's sex blogReal Life by Brandon TaylorBrandon Taylor's forthcoming...2021-04-2949 minBetween The Pages26. Solo Spotlight: It's A Soft World After All & An UpdateIt's just Caitlin for the first time in what feels like forever, and she's doing a deep dive into self-care as we move through the pandemic / re-entry. How do we get used to hard pants again? What if I'm a little anxious about being more social? What does sustainable community care look like? And a quick update on the podcast - we're going on hiatus for the summer! Follow the pod on IG for any updates on what Season 3 looks like this fall. _________________________You can find all book recommendations mentioned on the podcast on Bookshop.o...2021-04-2219 minBetween The Pages25. Political Wellness Education with Melissa Fabello*CW: discussions of eating disorders, medical fatphobia and weight stigma 20:45-37:02*What a joy to have political wellness educator, fierce femme, and professional Instagram Boomeranger Melissa Fabello on the show! Melissa and Caitlin talk about wellness education work on Instagram, Melissa's brilliant consulting work (Caitlin is a former client!), and her research into how women with anorexia experience sexuality and sensuality. _________________________Show NotesBy Appetite: Sex, Touch, and Desire in Women with AnorexiaMelissa's consulting servicesWhat We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat by Aubrey GordonMaintenance Phase podcast...2021-04-151h 11Between The Pages24. Brazenlee Shadee (with Brazen Babe Reviews Podcast)Get ready for a laugh-filled episode! Caitlin welcomes Sharonda Isadora and Taima from the Brazen Babe Review podcast to talk all about Black romance novels, the importance of nuanced stories of Black love, and some of their steamiest recommendations. _________________________Show NotesBooks mentionedTonight and Forever by Brenda JacksonEquivalent Exchange by Christina C. JonesThe Cask by Danielle Allen (full series)The Gift by Rilzy Adams (Falling Like a Johnson series)Birthday Shot by Rilzy AdamsThe Time Shared by Endiya CarterHis Weekend Special by Endiya CarterHeld In Contempt by Eva SherieShift Change by...2021-04-0848 minBetween The Pages23. BOOK CLUB: Sex, Teens, and Everything In Between (with Campbell Keyser)*CW: consent, sexual violence, sexual harassment*It's book club discussion day! Caitlin has her wonderful IRL friend Campbell on to chat all about Sex, Teens, and Everything In Between by Shafia Zaloom. Caitlin and Campbell talk about how "The Talk" should really be "the talks" with your kids, how technology/sexting plays a role in young people's lives (especially during COVID), and the importance of understanding consent. This book is a great resource for parents, or even if you're a supportive adult in a young person's life. _________________________Between The Pages now ha...2021-03-2553 minBetween The PagesBONUS EPISODE: Bachelor Reckoning (with @katiesbookwrecks)Bonus episode! Caitlin talks with Katie from @katiesbookwrecks about this trashfire of a season of The Bachelor, including the franchise's history of white-washing and pandering to white conservative viewers. Caitlin and Katie recap a bit of Matt James' season and both grapple with the decision of whether or not to keep watching and supporting the franchise._________________________Show NotesChelsea Vaughn's Women Tell All episode of Here To Make Friends podcastFollow Katie on Instagram @katiesbookwrecks_________________________Between The Pages now has a Patreon (!!!) Sign up here at...2021-03-2240 minBetween The Pages22. Steamy Lit (with Mel Gill @thesteamboxco)Things are getting steamy this week - we have the wonderful Mel Gill (@thesteamboxco) on the show! Mel is the founder of Steamy Lit and creator of The Steam Box, a new book subscription box service that highlights women romance authors of color and non-binary/genderqueer authors and encourages embracing sexuality and self-love (so obviously right up the alley of Between The Pages!). Mel talks to Caitlin about creating The Steam Box, what's included, how she's working to showcase authors of color and LGBTQ+ authors, and destigmatizing romance and self-love._________________________Show NotesSteamy Lit web...2021-03-1832 minBetween The Pages21. Queer Dating Coach (with Ariella Serur)Super excited to have Queer Dating Coach extraordinaire Ariella Serur on the show! Ariella (@queerdatingcoach) is helping kind queer folks date better, and she shares her knowledge with us, including: how she became a dating coach, common pitfalls of dating, and what she does to create an inclusive space online and in her coaching practice. _________________________Show NotesSubscribe to Queer Dating Coach newsletterThe Body Is Not An ApologyAriella's sexuality-related book recommendations: The Body Is Not An Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor, The Ethical Slut by Janet W. Hardy and Dossie Easton, The S...2021-03-1140 minBetween The Pages20. Sex Education, Moving Through Grief, and Disability Justice (with Bianca Laureano)*CW: discussions of grief, loss of a parent and friend, anxiety, depression starting at 29:16; mention of suicidal ideation at 39:54*This week's guest is truly a legend in the field of sex education: Bianca Laureano, award-wining educator, curriculum writer, facilitator, and sexologist! Caitlin and Bianca discuss the importance of educators and providers unlearning oppressive language and thought processes, including racial justice and centering students of color in sex ed, tuning into erotic power when moving through grief and mourning, and Bianca's work on the Netflix film Crip Camp and the accompanying disability justice curriculum.___________________________________________________________________________...2021-03-0455 minBetween The Pages19. BOOK CLUB: Ace (with Kati Kostyk @shelfmadewoman)February book club! Caitlin welcomes Kati Kostyk @shelfmadewoman to talk about Ace by Angela Chen. Caitlin and Kati talk about Kati's podcast Shelf Made Women, anticipated 2021 releases, and then dive deep into their mutual love for Ace. Kati shares their experience as an ace person and how compulsory sexuality harms us all._________________________________Show Notes2021 releases: The Natural Mother of the Child: A Memoir of Nonbinary Parenthood by Krys Malcolm Belc, We Play Ourselves by Jen SilvermanKati's recommendations: Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski, Burnout by Emily & Amelia Nagoski_______________________________2021-02-2545 minBetween The Pages18. Love & Relationships (with Caitlin's partner Danny)It's a deep dive episode into all things love and relationships with Caitlin's wonderful partner, Danny! Danny and Caitlin talk about how we met, the weirdest things about living together (especially in a pandemic), and answer some listener questions about gender roles, marriage, and resolving conflict. You can find all book recommendations mentioned on the podcast on Bookshop.org here (and if you shop through the affiliate link, Caitlin gets a little commission!)Remember to rate, review, and subscribe to help the pod grow!You can follow the podcast @betweenthepagespod on Instagram and C...2021-02-1857 minBetween The Pages17. AUTHOR INTERVIEW - Angela Chen (Ace)In honor of BTP's February book club pick Ace: What Asexuality Reveals About Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex, Caitlin is so excited to welcome author Angela Chen to the podcast! Caitlin and Angela discuss asexuality as an identity, asexuality and disability, and the nuances of romantic and platonic love. Show NotesAngela's sexuality-related book recommendation: Come As You Are by Emily NagoskiFollow Angela on Twitter @chengelaYou can find all book recommendations mentioned on the podcast on Bookshop.org here (and if you s...2021-02-1130 minBetween The Pages16. What's My Body Doing with Eva BloomBetween The Pages is delighted to welcome Eva Bloom (@whatsmybodydoing), queer sex educator and self-proclaimed sexuality research nerd, to the podcast for a super fun discussion! Eva talks about common questions she gets on her Youtube channel, compassionate casual sex, and sex during COVID. Show NotesFollow Eva on Instagram @whatsmybodydoingCheck out What's My Body Doing on YouTubeBuy Eva's e-book "A Compassionate Guide to Sexuality and COVID-19"Sign up for Eva's sex research newsletterHoney Play Box's Ultimate Guide to Vibrators videoHow to F*ck Like a H...2021-02-0436 minBetween The Pages15. BOOK CLUB: Group (with Regan Devlin)It's BTP's January Book Club episode! Caitlin chats with Regan Devin about Group by Christie Tate. Regan works for a literary scout and shares changes to the publishing industry due to COVID and some 2021 releases that she's excited about. Then Caitlin and Regan talk about why Regan thought Group would be a good fit for the podcast, working through relationships in your 20s, and their favorite, most visceral moments from Group. Follow Regan @regandevlin or @bookweedsRemember to rate, review & subscribe!Follow BTP on Instagram @betweenthepagespod2021-01-2855 minBetween The Pages14. Sexual Health, Rights, and Justice Priorities with Beirne Roose-Snyder*Content Warning*: Mention and some detail on unsafe abortions from 29:38 to 31:00We have a new presidential administration (!!!), so let’s get INTO IT on all things sexual and reproductive health, rights, and justice with Beirne Roose-Snyder, Director of Public Policy at the Center for Health And Gender Equity (CHANGE). Beirne is a brilliant thinker and strategist on reproductive rights policy, and she and Caitlin discuss everything from the awful rollbacks of human rights under the Trump administration to the priorities of reproductive health and rights for the Biden administration. 2021-01-2148 minBetween The Pages13. The Business of Sex Ed (with Cameron Glover)How do you go about launching your own business as a sex educator? Cameron Glover, Chief Visionary Officer of Successful Sex Ed, is the human to go to for the answer to this question. Caitlin and Cameron talk about Cameron’s work as a business coach for sex educators, how to create inclusive programs, what intentional accessibility means, and where to start if you’re interested in becoming a sex educator.Follow Cameron @thecameronglover on Instagram. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe! Follow the podcast @betweenthepagespod...2021-01-1452 minBetween The Pages12. AUTHOR INTERVIEW - Christy TateWelcome to Season 2 of Between The Pages! Caitlin chats with Christie Tate about her debut memoir Group: How One Therapist And A Circle of Strangers Saved My Life. Christie talks about her experience in group therapy, including learning how to say no, how fighting creates intimacy, and how she went from top of her class in law school and miserable to having intimate relationships, including marriage. Make sure to read Group this month before the BTP book club episode on January 28! Show NotesBig Friendship by Am...2021-01-0748 minBetween The Pages11. Solo Spotlight: All The Soft ThingsWe are doing a Solo Spotlight on alllll the soft things! Caitlin does a round-up of some of her favorite self-care tips and ways to be gentle to yourself during this time. Includes ideas and recommendations for beauty/body, environment, hobbies, community care, and unsexy routine things. Things I mention: The Stripe blog for skincare recommendationsIndie Lee Brightening CleanserOsea Ocean CleanserCocokind Oil To Milk CleanserWeleda Skin Food LightUrsa Major Brighten Up Vitamin C serumCocokind Matcha StickTata Harper Resurfacing MaskLuv ScrubOctavia Gilmore (DMV hairstylist)Kenra hair productsEarring makers: MylaMakes, Marandah Rain earringsDesert Dy...2020-11-1948 minBetween The Pages10. AUTHOR INTERVIEW - Rosie DananI'm thrilled to have Rosie Danan on the show this week! Rosie is the debut author of one of my favorite romances of the year, The Roommate. We chat about the themes tackled in The Roommate, including destigmatizing sex work, centering pleasure, and the importance of understanding our bodies. We also hear more about the sequel The Intimacy Experiment, out in April 2021! 2020-11-0549 minBetween The Pages9. BOOK CLUB: The Monster Under The Bed (with Sarah Brynn Holliday)BOOK CLUB EP! Today we chat about The Monster Under The Bed by JoEllen Notte with writer and sex educator Sarah Brynne Holliday. We talk about the origin story of Sarah's blog Formidable Femme, their work with survivors of trauma, and Sarah's foray into writing smutty fiction. Then we get into The Monster Under The Bed: Sex, Depression, and the Conversations We Aren't Having. This book is the most comprehensive look at the intersection of sex and depression that we've ever read, and we felt so seen and validated by the data and experiences shared. There's also...2020-10-221h 03Between The Pages8. Solo Spotlight on the State of Sex EdIt's just Caitlin on the mic today, and she gives a little state of the union on the state of sex ed in the U.S. We talk about little joys, sexuality news, and some not-great numbers when it comes to sex ed in schools. Caitlin also answers some listener questions on how to have a career in sex education and sex educators to follow on Instagram. Show NotesGuttmacher Institute data on adolescents and sexual health in the U.S.Cameron Glover's resources for sex educators Jaclyn Friedman's podcast UnscrewedSex Educators T...2020-10-0827 minBetween The Pages7. BOOK CLUB: The Miseducation of Cameron Post (with The Bookstagays)IT’S BOOK CLUB DAY! Caitlin discusses The Miseducation of Cameron Post by Emily M. Danforth with Alex and Sam from The Bookstagays podcast! We chat about how The Bookstagays came to be, Alex and Sam’s favorite queer books, what we want to see more of in the LGBTQ+ literary world...the gay screaming is real. Then we launch into discussing Cameron Post, which broke our hearts a little in the best way. It’s a coming of age story set in rural Montana in the 90’s, and there’s lots of first love...2020-09-241h 13Between The Pages6. AUTHOR INTERVIEW - Sarah MacLeanBTP is delighted to welcome NYT best-selling author Sarah MacLean to the podcast! Sarah and Caitlin talk about sex in romance novels (including a very important question re: squirting), reading and writing romance to fight the patriarchy, and a listeners' Q&A from Old Town Books Bad Romance Book Club members. Show NotesThe EW “elegantly fuming, utterly intoxicating” articleSarah’s Gracefully Furious merchThe Vagina Bible by Jen GunterSex Ed In RomancePegging Romance Interstitial episode of Fated Mates (Sarah’s podcast)You Had...2020-09-1756 minBetween The Pages5.5. BONUS Romance Recommendation Roundup (Kristen Coates)@kristenlcoates is back! Here’s her amazing romance recommendation round-up: Fake Relationship Trope FavesRed White & Royal Blue by Casey McQuistonLush Money by Angelina M. LopezThe Earl I Ruined by Scarlett PeckhamWhen A Scot Ties The Knot by Tessa DareBest Intro Romances For New ReadersSarah MacLean’s Rules of Scoundrels series A Rogue by Any Other NameOne Good Earl Deserves a LoverNo Good Duke Goes UnpunishedN...2020-09-1036 minBetween The Pages5. Romance Reading (with Kristen Coates)In this episode Caitlin is joined by the wonderful @kristenlcoates to discuss all things romance genre, sexuality, and sexy times! Kristen is a brilliant mind, an avid romance reader, and one of the fearless leaders of the Bad Romance Book Club hosted by Old Town Books in Alexandria VA. Caitlin and Kristen talk about their first romance novels (both by the queen Sarah MacLean, of course), gush about BRBC as the best space for thoughtful conversations about romance and sex jokes, as well as wax poetic about the importance of romance as a genre that is pushing the boundaries...2020-09-0345 minBetween The Pages4. American Hookup (with Aimee Nguyen)Book club ep! Caitlin chats with Aimee Nguyen, brilliant public health professional and photographer, about this month's book club pick: American Hookup by Lisa Wade. They discuss college hookup culture, "catching feelings" and the possibility for empathetic hookups, and the oversexualization of Asian-American women. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe! Follow on Instagram @betweenthepagespod2020-08-2043 minBetween The Pages3. Choice Politics (with Samantha Bauman)Interview ep! Caitlin chats with Samantha Bauman (@feminisam), an electoral politics professional focused on getting women and people supportive of reproductive choice elected. We talk about Sam’s origin story with politics & choice, supporting local candidates (including their amazing campaign ads), and how to actually help the candidates we want in office - spoiler alert: it includes phone banking, so get on it! Show Notes: Wendy Davis’ filibuster to block restrictive abortion bill in TexasSara Gideon’s campaign adCandace Valenzuela’s campaign adBu...2020-08-0642 minBetween The Pages2. Solo Spotlight on Black Sex Educators & BooksSolo ep! Caitlin does a roundup of wonderful Black sex educators to follow, as well as books by Black authors that center sexuality. Shownotes below! SisterSong, what is reproductive justice?Educators: Sex Positive Families | Amaze: the #AskableParent Guide to PornEricka HartSonya Renee TaylorDr. Tracie GilbertBooks: The Body Is Not An Apology by Sonya Renee TaylorReal Life by Brandon TaylorPleasure Activism by adrienne maree brownGet A Life, Chloe Brown by Talia HibbertFollow on Instagram: @betweenthepagespod2020-07-2330 minBetween The Pages1. Boys & Sex (with Jackson Viccora)Welcome to the very first episode of Between The Pages! Our guest today is Jackson Viccora, a brilliant 20-something and (you guessed it) my brother. Jackson serves as our resident "boy guest" as we discuss Peggy Orenstein's book Boys & Sex. We discuss everything from boys and their emotions, porn as sex education, and if there's any salvaging toxic masculinity. CONNECT WITH BTP! Instagram: @betweenthepagespodEmail: betweenthepgspod@gmail.com2020-07-021h 15