Shows
The Legal BurnoutsEpisode 29. Goodbye (For Now)This will be our final episode (for now).Between busy schedules and Kate moving in a different career direction, she and Rhia made the difficult decision to let the podcast go. They discuss the decision in detail in the episode, but it wasn't one that was made lightly. We’ve absolutely loved highlighting your stories, speaking with our amazing guests, and helping people feel less alone in their burnout journeys! But making an independent podcast is a lot of work that sadly isn't sustainable for us at this point.When we made the decision, we di...
2025-02-201h 20
Legal Talk Network - Law News and Legal TopicsStress, Burnout, and the Legal Profession: It’s OK To Talk About ItLegal burnout. It’s a real thing. Let’s talk about it. On the podcast “The Legal Burnouts,” guests Kate Bridal and Josey Hoff have opened up about burnout. Both worked in law, Bridal as an attorney and Hoff as a paralegal. One day they realized they’d had enough. They were burned out. They know what they’re talking about, and they know what many in the legal profession are going through. Burnout is real. It’s an emotionally grinding field with physically grueling time demands. If you’re feeling the stress, understand what your body is telling you. U...
2024-10-0338 min
The Paralegal VoiceStress, Burnout, and the Legal Profession: It’s OK To Talk About ItLegal burnout. It’s a real thing. Let’s talk about it. On the podcast “The Legal Burnouts,” guests Kate Bridal and Josey Hoff have opened up about burnout. Both worked in law, Bridal as an attorney and Hoff as a paralegal. One day they realized they’d had enough. They were burned out. They know what they’re talking about, and they know what many in the legal profession are going through. Burnout is real. It’s an emotionally grinding field with physically grueling time demands. If you’re feeling the stress, understand what your body is telling you. U...
2024-10-0336 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 28. Pivots and Recovery With Reshma Saujani, Founder of Girls Who Code and Moms FirstWe’re ending Season 2 with a bang!In this episode, Kate and Rhia are joined by Reshma Saujani, leading activist and the founder of Girls Who Code and Moms First, formerly Marshall Plan for Moms. Reshma has spent more than a decade building movements to fight for women and girls’ economic empowerment, most recently advocating for policies to support moms impacted by the pandemic. She is also the author of the international bestseller Brave, Not Perfect, and her influential TED talk, “Teac...
2024-06-2030 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 27. Farewell Josey and Career ClarityIt’s Josey’s last episode as co-host of The Legal Burnouts, so Kate and Rhia bid her a fond farewell and learn more about why she’s leaving and her next steps.Josey opens up about her current burnout, which stems mainly from physical injuries she sustained over a year ago. Josey didn’t address the injuries at the time they happened due to a combination of existing, unaddressed burnout and her impulse to overwork. However, she recently took the brave step to request leave, to give herself...
2024-06-1259 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 26. Creating Your Own Spaces With Faridat ArogundadeThis week, Kate and Rhia are joined by Rhia’s law school classmate Faridat Arogundade, a former Biglaw attorney who has created her own high-quality, plus-sized fashion line, Ìfẹ́mi. Faridat honestly and insightfully discusses her experience as a plus-sized Black woman in Biglaw and society in general. In her 8 years as a Biglaw attorney, Faridat experienced discrimination based on size, race, and culture. From not getting cold-called because of her name, to being short-change...
2024-06-051h 15The Legal BurnoutsEpisode 26. Changing Lanes With Kyle KellyIn Kate and Josey’s final guest interview together, they talk with the man who inspired them to start The Legal Burnouts, Kyle Kelly. Kyle, a former digital forensics professional, worked at tiny companies like Salesforce and Coinbase before deciding to break off and create his own legal technology. He is now the CEO and founder of Zubu, the world’s first native genAI legal holds solution.Kyle opens up about the challenges he’s faced in entrepreneurship: Pivoting away from an idea he’d had fo...
2024-05-2242 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 25. Pregnancy, Parenting, and Entrepreneurship With Megan SeneseThis week, Rhia and Kate speak to Megan Senese, cofounder of Stage, a women-owned legal marketing and business development firm that offers- among many other services- a free program to support working parents before and after parental leave. This program, called Courderoy, was partially inspired by Megan’s previous experience hiding her pregnancy from her firm for SIX MONTHS. Though nobody told Megan she had to hide her pregnancy, there were plenty of cultural indicators that she s...
2024-05-0854 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 23. Infertility with Emily PetrichContent warning: This episode contains discussions of infertility and miscarriage. In honor of National Infertility Awareness Week, Kate and Rhia are joined by fertility activist (and aspiring cyborg) Emily Petrich, who went from suffering through infertility in silence, to speaking out about her experience on social media, to becoming an activist in the infertility community. Infertility is taxing on your mental, emotional, and physical health, and comes with many stressors that ca...
2024-04-2437 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 22. Crossover Episode With The Newfangled LawyerThis week, in a very special episode, The Newfangled Lawyer (Patrick Patino) crosses over with The Legal Burnouts (Kate Bridal and Rhia Batchelder) to talk baked potatoes, burnout, and how to make the law a kinder profession. Patrick, Kate, and Rhia discuss unleashing themselves on social media, whether it’s possible to practice law in a way that aligns with your values, how to cure-ify (curate and diversify) your LinkedIn feed, and why it’s important to break the illusion of perfection....
2024-04-171h 02The Legal BurnoutsEpisode 21. The Enneagram With Enneagram AshtonJosey and Kate’s dreams come true when they get to nerd out over the Enneagram with none other than Enneagram Ashton!Ashton Whitmoyer-Ober is a community psychologist, certified Enneagram educator, author, and Enneagram Type 2. She walks Kate (Type 3) and Josey (Type 5) through each Enneagram type and how burnout may manifest for them. The Enneagram can be a great tool to get to know yourself, your habits, and your motivations so you can operate in an anti-burnout way. It can also help y...
2024-04-1041 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 20. Triggers and Glimmers With Paula LiubKate and Rhia are joined by Paula Liub, an anti-burnout coach specifically for neurodivergent and highly sensitive women. Paula talks about grappling with burnout as a neurodivergent woman, her struggle to get a diagnosis, and how she came to her work promoting neurodivergent wellness. Paula uses a unique blend of science-backed and mindfulness techniques to help prevent, manage, and heal from burnout. Her mission is wellness for all neurodivergent people, but she focuses on women ...
2024-03-2748 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 19. Nonlegal Lawyers With ex judicataKate and Rhia chat with Neil Handwerker and Kimberly Fine, founders of ex judicata, the only employment site specifically designed to help lawyers find nonlegal jobs. Lawyers are told that their law degrees will open all sorts of doors for them, but they often feel stuck and struggle to find suitable alternative careers.Kim and Neil saw this gap and wanted to help attorneys apply their degrees and experience to nonlegal work. From their attorney-specific career diagnostic to a tool that helps...
2024-03-2036 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 18. DEI Layoffs and That Alabama IVF DecisionThis episode was originally supposed to be a discussion of recent DEI team layoffs, then a lighthearted career clarity session between Rhia and Kate. But when recording happened… that wasn’t the vibe.Instead of the career clarity portion, Josey, Kate, and Rhia grappled with their feelings around the recent IFV decision in Alabama. In what is maybe our most vulnerable episode yet, you’ll hear tears, laughter, and some much-needed venting. Plus, they manage to tie the issue back to why DEI is c...
2024-03-1336 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 17. Unlearning Toxic Perfectionism With Coach Jordana ConfinoThis week, Kate and Rhia are joined by Career Coach and recovering perfectionist, Jordana Confino. Jordana shares her high achiever origin story, from chasing achievement in high school, to law school at Yale, to a series of career choices that kept burning her out. She then shares how she used science-backed, positive psychology to go from debilitating anxiety to thriving in a career where she helps others get out from under the thumb of their “inner drill sergeant.” If you feel li...
2024-02-2855 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 16. Trans Rights, Elections, and Job Hunts, Oh My! With Vanessa JoyThis episode contains references to genocide, violence, and self-harm. Listener discretion is advised. On their first guest episode together, Kate and Rhia interview Vanessa Joy, champion of equality and communication, Host/Executive Producer of the Transcending Humanity podcast, and former political candidate (who also happens to be transgender).Vanessa talks about her leadership philosophy and the exhaustion that comes with job hunting while trans, then gets into her disqualifica...
2024-02-1442 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 15. Welcome Back, Barbie!We’re baaaaack! In the Season 2 premiere Kate, Josey, and new cohost Rhia Batchelder nerd out about crosswords, logic games, and puzzles. Then they dive into that Jo Koy comment at the Golden Globes, Barbie’s Oscar snubs, and how those events reflect the burnout crisis among women.**At the time of this recording, we hadn’t seen the news about the snubs of The Color Purple. We’ll be addressing that in a later episode, closer to the Oscars. If you're interested in purchasing the book Rhia ...
2024-02-0745 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 14. Bonus Episode: Kate and Josey Play the Newlywed GameWe know we said we were done, but we couldn’t end a season with 13 episodes. It’s too spooky. So in honor of Halloween, Kate and Josey got together in Seattle for a special bonus episode.Dressed as best friends Keeley and Rebecca from Ted Lasso, Kate and Josey were quizzed by Kate’s real-life best friend Larkin Harrington (AKA Ted) on how well they know each other after doing a season of the podcast.In this episode, you'll learn all sorts of things about Kate and Josey, like:How many tat...
2023-11-0330 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 13. Season 1 Wrap Up With Josey and KateIn the final episode of the first season, Kate and Josey take a deeper dive into their most recent, shared burnout experience, including how constant change is a recipe for quick and severe burnout, and how hopping to something "easier" from the legal field can make you feel unentitled to burn out.They also discuss what they’ve learned this season, address things they wish they'd addressed in earlier episodes, and shout out some folks who made this season possible.We want to thank every singl...
2023-10-1150 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 12. Unspoken Rules With Chloe DiazWARNING: This episode contains discussions of, and references to, sexual assault and abortion. Listener discretion is advised.On our final guest episode of the season, we’re joined by Chloe Diaz, who gets real about all the unspoken rules law school and the legal profession are riddled with. Chloe opens up about her difficult experience as a first-gen law student, and how clear it became that the legal space was designed to exclude her. From how you eat to how you dress, these rules are ...
2023-10-0441 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 11. The Episode That Almost Wasn't With Henry Nelson-CaseThis week, Henry Nelson-Case, aka That Corporate Lawyer, discusses his burnout experience on what he calls “the most unhinged podcast I’ve been on.”This episode set the record for longest recording time of any yet at over 2 ½ hours. But because Henry, Kate, and Josey got on too well and couldn’t stop laughing, they only got 45 minutes of serious content. The rest, which contains tales of Henry and Josey’s dating lives, many references to Xanax, and a lot of howling laughter, will remain...
2023-09-2742 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 10. Being Kind to Yourself With Anti-Burnout Coach Rhia BatchelderIn the most universally applicable episode yet, anti-burnout coach and former Biglaw attorney Rhia Batchelder joins Kate and Josey to talk about her journey from working in New York firms to building her own business. Rhia gives a ton of actionable tips on how to prevent and recover from burnout, as well as advice for companies on how to build anti-burnout cultures.On top of all that, Rhia, Kate, and Josey nerd out about the Enneagram, analyze that challenging moment when men realize that not...
2023-09-2054 min
Thinking LSATLegal Burnout (Ep. 420)Kate Bridal and Josey Hoff, hosts of The Legal Burnouts podcast, join Ben and Nathan to discuss why burnout is such a common problem for legal professionals. They advise future lawyers on how to plan for a healthy, sustainable career.
Follow Kate @bridalpartyof5 on Instagram and TikTok, and follow Josey @jh_thelegalburnouts on Instagram.
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1:47 - Legal Burnout - Josey and Kate share their stories...
2023-09-181h 14The Legal BurnoutsEpisode 9. Law School Burnout With Rilee HarrisonRilee Harrison, lead attorney and head of marketing at Cain Law, sits down with Josey and Kate to share how he burned out during his first semester of law school. He also discusses how that experience with burnout affected his ability to pass the bar on the first try.Rilee discusses how the entire law school process, from having to get a potentially irrelevant undergrad degree to taking the bar exam, is a recipe for burnout. While discussing his experiences, he shares how he developed h...
2023-09-1336 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 8. Boundaries With Kyle Robisch and Marissa KhetanKyle Robisch, partner at Bradley Arant Boult Cummings, and Marissa Khetan, portfolio manager at Equal Justice Works, join Kate and Josey to talk all things boundaries. (Fun fact: Marissa and Kate also used to work together as attorneys at the same legal aid organization!)This episode is relevant to anyone who is wondering how to set effective boundaries for themselves or for their employees. With perspectives from both the public interest sector and the private bar, Marissa and Kyle shar...
2023-09-0653 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 7. Overcome Burnout by Overcoming Your Ego With Bob SimonTrial attorney, entrepreneur, and podcast host Robert Simon sits down with Kate and Josey to talk about how letting go of his ego allowed him to overcome burnout and continue practicing law. Bob discusses the importance of delegation, intentionality, and finding a good mentor, and he and Josey debate the practicality of contingency fees vs the billable hour for attorneys who may be struggling financially.This episode also includes talk about celebrity look-alikes, some light accent work, and ...
2023-08-2339 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 6. Management Methods with Ashley HerdGood management is key to preventing burnout in the legal field, but most people aren't trained to be managers. Many attorneys who manage others are already overwhelmed by demanding clients and workloads, making learning proper management the furthest thing from their minds. If this applies to you, you're in luck! This week, Ashley Herd, CEO and founder of Manager Method, shares the quick versions of some of her in-depth lessons around management with Kate and Josey, and talks about how ...
2023-08-1647 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 5. 31 Flavors of Burnout With Matt MargolisMatt Margolis, famed TikToker and Head of Community and Legal at Lawtrades, joins Josey and Kate to discuss how burnout followed him through his career in firms, government, and in-house, until he learned to control the external and internal factors that lead to it. With his trademark humor and enthusiasm, Matt compares burnout to ice cream, talks like a pirate, and patiently waits out interruptions from Kate's landscapers and industrial jackhammers.This episode teaches about the telltale sym...
2023-08-0939 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 4. Bar Exam With Liz GilIn honor of bar exam week, bar exam abolitionist Liz Gil gets real with Kate and Josey about the inequities of the exam, and the "breathtaking pushback" she experienced when advocating for change during the 2020 Barpocalypse. Liz, Kate, and Josey attempt to unpack why already licensed attorneys are so determined to keep the bar exam in place: Is it burnout and bitterness from a highly stressful exam that scarred them, a desire to keep the profession exclusive, or something else altogether?Jos...
2023-07-2647 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 3. The Burdens of Race Work and the Power of Self-Advocacy With CJ DonaldCorporate attorney CJ Donald sits down with Kate and Josey to share his story of burnout, which stemmed from both the burden of race work- the extra, often unpaid work of mentoring and recruiting that is placed on Black associates- and from working at an unsustainable pace, doing work he had outgrown. This is a can't-miss episode with practical advice on how to overcome burnout by advocating for yourself and your career, as well as an honest conversation about how firms can increase diversity...
2023-07-1946 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 2. Living Authentically at Work With Tom StephensonIn our first guest episode, Tom Stephenson, VP of Community and Legal Operations at Legal.io and host of the Dear Legal Ops podcast, shares why he chose to leave a decade-long career as a firm paralegal for a career in legal ops, and how learning to live authentically helped him overcome burnout. Learn how Tom has navigated his identity as a member of the LGBTQ+ community at work, and created a role for himself that allows him to embrace his most authentic self. The views and opinions ex...
2023-07-1242 minThe Legal BurnoutsEpisode 1. Josey and Kate's StoriesKate and Josey share their stories of burning out in traditional law, and discuss some aspects of the legal industry that may cause burnout to be such a widespread issue in the profession. They also realize they don't actually know each other that well yet: Stay tuned to see whether their friendship continues or blossoms into hate.(Sound quality improves in subsequent episodes. Thanks for bearing with us while we learn.) The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the h...
2023-07-0554 min