Shows
Slow Train to HeckBonus Episode: The Divorced Virgin ProjectCheck out a special bonus episode of Slow Train to Heck where I interview Mindy, the creator of The Divorced Virgin Project, about her experience growing up in purity culture and how leaving it motivated her to create this resource for others who are trying to figure out how to deal with the fallout of purity culture in their own lives.The Divorced Virgin Project brings together dedicated psychotherapists and specialists, including divorce coaches, financial advisors, sex educators, and more, providing accessible content to help victims of purity culture to heal.Check out The Divorced...
2024-04-2632 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 43 (Finale): The Story You ToldWelcome to the finale of a podcast about people, sharing their stories of deconstruction and leaving behind toxic religious systems... so what happens next? I've got one more story for you.Podcast episode about Hegel's God: https://www.philosophizethis.org/podcast/hegels-godSlow Train To Heck - the Substack: https://slowtraintoheck.substack.comThank you all for listening for the past two years. It has meant the world.
2023-10-1143 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 42: Love Really Does WinIn this final conversation on Slow Train To Heck, Matt and Mandy Ottaway share the story of their lives together: Growing up in evangelicalism, attending Moody Bible Institute, getting into youth ministry in their early 20s... eventually with Matt realizing the restrictive intellectual cage that his ministry position required and Mandy experiencing the burnout of a life dedicated to church ministries while trying to raise their kids. After leaving ministry, they discovered what the world outside of "required belief" was like, and the freedom to be able to "deconstruct", to learn, to grow, and to change.
2023-09-271h 39Slow Train to HeckEpisode 41: The Kid in the BookstoreMatthew Burkholder joins the podcast to share his experience of growing up immersed in purity culture, starting all the way back as a kid in a Christian bookstore surrounded by the key texts of that ideology. We talk about the lasting damage that can be done by teaching children to hate the natural things that make them human, and the subsequent roadblocks that are created that can get in the way of healthy spirituality. We also chat about his journey into academia, as he's now working on his PhD in Theological Studies through Wycliffe College, how that has affected...
2023-09-131h 15Slow Train to HeckEpisode 40: Forced to Betray OurselvesOlivia Grigg shares her experience of Christianity and the spiritual trauma that it caused her, and gives her take on religious trauma as a whole from her perspective as a social worker and counsellor focused on helping people navigate changing beliefs, deconstruction, and that religious trauma. She discusses how many church environments force us to betray ourselves in many ways, from an early age, and normalize the lack of boundaries, portraying that lack of boundaries and submission to church authority as a necessary prerequisite to community. Additionally, she dives into the normalization of physical abuse of children in the...
2023-08-3058 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 39: The Correlation of DysfunctionLaurel talks about the link between dysfunctional families and dysfunctional fundamentalist churches, and how people in abusive situations who are desperate for love are reeled in by the promise of love from leaders who manipulate that desire for the purposes of control.She also shares her own story of growing up in an abusive environment and how she has since found freedom from environments that use fear as a method of control.Content warnings: physical and spiritual abuse of children, mental illness, depressionBooks Laurel mentioned:Bradshaw on The Family (John...
2023-07-121h 35Slow Train to HeckEpisode 38: This Was The Grace Of GodThis week I'm joined by Kevin Wilcox (see his previous appearance on the podcast in Episode 6) to talk about how you might be able to maintain or forge relationships "across the aisle" - is it possible for an evangelical and an exvangelical to be friends, and if so, how? What needs to be considered when entering into a relationship like that? What boundaries need to be established, what considerations need to be taken into account, and most importantly, how can we best love and care for ourselves and other people in the process?We chat about these...
2023-06-211h 48Slow Train to HeckEpisode 37: We're All Having The Same QuestionsThis week I had the pleasure of chatting with Jannah Rulfs, who grew up Pentecostal in Southwestern Ontario and has since left the church. Jannah has a lot of really insightful things to say about the anxiety and fear that Christianity generated in her as a young teenager, the challenges she has with some of what Christianity seems to require of young people in terms of evangelism and certainty, and how she relates to Christianity and Christians now in a positive way.
2023-06-071h 18Slow Train to HeckEpisode 36: The System Is BrokenAlexandra and John share their experiences growing up Christian and the fear-based narratives they lived within. Eventually, they entered the mission field, living in China for some time, and eventually worked for Christian nonprofits. What they saw in these arenas further confirmed what they had grown up experiencing of Christianity - the system is broken. The way Christianity said Christians would act was not at all how the Christians in their lives were acting - even worse than "the world" in many cases - and this caused them to question whether the church really had a role to play...
2023-05-241h 43Slow Train to HeckEpisode 35: Hope Is Very PunkCassy shares her story and talks about her mental illness and sexual assault, and processing these heavy things while also processing her faith deconstruction. Cassy is an incredibly strong person who has come through a lot of really hard things, and I hope her strength inspires you as much as it did me.Please take note of the content warnings below and mentioned in the opening, as this episode digs into a few things in detail.Content warnings: sexual assault, mental illness, self-harm, suicide, eating disorders, trichotillomania, homophobiaCassy's essay "Should You Report...
2023-05-102h 09Slow Train to HeckEpisode 34: The EndgameThe Slow Train is back, and with it comes David Hayward, a.k.a. the Naked Pastor. David is a former pastor who has since become an artist, creating amazing paintings and cartoons that challenge aspects of religious environments in ways that provoke conversations - in fact he's recently released a collection of cartoons called Flip it Like This which you can check out right now and put it on your coffee table if you want to spark some conversations of your own. He's also an author, having written 10 books including one of my favourites, Til Doubt Do Us...
2023-04-2658 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 33: The Best Tag Team EverWalter Schultz hops on the Slow Train to Heck to share his story of being required to attend church as a child, the confusion that caused him when presented with two wildly opposed worldviews between Sunday School and public school, and how his relationship with his mother was what ultimately helped him escape that world and leave it behind.Content warnings: spousal abuse, generational trauma, residential schools/church abuse, the holocaust
2022-11-301h 31Slow Train to HeckEpisode 32: A Paper Wall of Fire and FlamesThis week Marie Wall shares her story of joining, living in, and ultimately Escaping the Church of God fundamentalist Christian cult in Aylmer, Ontario. She shares her harrowing experience of being slowly worn down by the church until she joined, then being brainwashed to believe that there was no hope for her outside their walls. After a deep descent into depression, she was able to escape and has never been happier. Content warnings: significant spiritual and religious abuse, physical abuse of children, depression, suicideIf you're struggling with suicidal thoughts, please call for help. Canada's s...
2022-11-1648 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 31: A Skewed Definition Of LoveJake Kroeker chats with us this week about his time at Trinity Bible Chapel, a fundamentalist evangelical church in the Waterloo Region of Ontario that has been increasingly positioning itself at the forefront of a growing Christian Nationalist movement among evangelical churches here in Canada. Jake talks about what motivates people who adhere to Trinity and churches like it, what his path out of that environment was, and how we can interact with people who hold those beliefs without further fanning the flames of their extremism.Content warnings: homophobic and transphobic slurs are referenced, as used by l...
2022-11-021h 04Slow Train to HeckEpisode 30: There Are No Wrong Notes [Part Two]We rejoin Luke Williams this week as he shares the remainder of his story, detailing the changes in his life after he left Christianity. Luke covers a whole bunch of life experiences and viewpoints, including exploring polyamorous relationships and cannabis and other drugs; working with the homeless, and organizing conventions; inconsistencies in the Bible and the human influence on its creation; and how his personal politics and views of society and people have been influenced by leaving Christianity. Content warnings: drug useLuke provided some show notes as well, which are as follows:
2022-10-192h 04Slow Train to HeckEpisode 29: There Are No Wrong Notes [Part One]Luke Williams joins the Slow Train to Heck to share his journey through and out of Christianity. Luke has lived through many different experiences in his life, and the message of suffering, and the expectation of suffering both now and in the future, was a strong one. However, Luke was able to move beyond that message and share his story with us now.I'm a big believer in people being able to share all of themselves and their whole story, and Luke and I realized that his story needed two parts to be told in full. This...
2022-10-052h 00Slow Train to HeckEpisode 28: On The LandAndrew Benson is a freelance writer, entrepreneur, pastor, and hiking enthusiast, who has worked in ministry all over Canada. Andrew and I have a great chat in this episode about what deconstruction looks like as a pastor, what deconstruction means to him, how interacting with people of other beliefs and cultures has impacted the way he sees things now, and what it might look like to hold things gently after redefining our beliefs.
2022-09-211h 12Slow Train to HeckEpisode 27: The World As We Know It Has EndedCarly Butler is an indigenous woman who was born in the US, but now lives in British Columbia. Carly grew up in a Christian environment characterized by fear: Fear of government, fear of persecution, and most of all, the fear of the apocalypse. That fear drove her mother to take her to Canada to escape the coming tribulation, and things progressed from there. Carly's life is an amazing story of resilience in the face of overwhelming trauma, and I'm really honoured that she's chosen to share it with us!Content warnings: acute religious trauma, apocalypse fear, Covid...
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REVcoveryTaking the slow train to heck with Josiah MahonThis week we interview Josiah Mahon host of the "Slow Train to Heck" podcast! Josiah faced a choice that many of us in REVcovery have had to face; do I tell the truth or do I stay silent? He chose the former and as many of us know the consequences were wide-ranging and unpredictable. Fortunately Josiah was able to find a path forward and for that we are very grateful because he is a truly delightful human being and his story is one that we are very exited to share.Welcome to the REVcovery Room!...
2022-09-061h 02Slow Train to HeckEpisode 26: Didn't Fit The MoldAmanda joins us this week to talk about her exit from the church and how she never fit the mold the church wants her to. She also shares her experiences as a mom of autistic children, and the challenges of being part of a church community who expected her kids to act a certain way - and how her and her kids' experience of Christianity caused her to feel like a failed Christian, and how the framework of evangelicalism had a negative impact on her mental health. Content warnings: ableism in the church, particularly prejudice against autistic p...
2022-08-241h 12Slow Train to HeckEpisode 25: Searching For SarahRev. Sarah Heath, author, designer, pastor, life coach, and host of great podcasts like Revcovery, joins us on the Slow Train to Heck this week. Sarah grew up in Ontario working at Christian camp where she discovered her own innate leadership skills which would eventually translate to her being a great leader in church ministry. When she moved to the Bible Belt in the USA, she encountered a different version of Christianity than the one she was used to in Canada. Sarah shares her story of navigating American Christianity while moving up in the ministry world as a "professional C...
2022-08-101h 24Slow Train to HeckEpisode 24: Externalizing IndoctrinationZac Schraeder is a psychotherapist based in Toronto with a focus on helping folks process religious trauma - and particularly those of the LGBTQ2S+ community who grew up in the church, as they often receive so many deeply damaging messages from the religious communities of their childhood that have long-lasting effects. Zac joins the podcast this week to talk about the effects of that religious indoctrination, including his own experience of it growing up queer within the Catholic Church, and how we can work to process that messaging by realizing that those messages about ourselves came from outside...
2022-07-271h 17Slow Train to HeckEpisode 23: Living In The QuestionThis week Jax shares her story and asks the question "Who is Jax?" Growing up in a conservative Christian environment, and having her personality and everything deemed to be of the "self" suppressed and replaced by Christian dogma, Jax is now working through the process of figuring out who she is outside of that environment. She also talks about the "Christian agenda" - where the religion will not be satisfied until everything and everyone else conforms to itself.Content warning: homophobia, white Christian colonialism, Christian abuse of indigenous populations
2022-07-131h 09Slow Train to HeckEpisode 22: Now I Get To LiveJeremiah Chapman shares his story of coming to accept his sexual orientation this week on the podcast, and details his experiences growing up in a Charismatic Christian community where his sexuality was unacceptable, and drastic measures were taken to try to suppress it. This led to some seriously traumatic experiences that shaped how Jeremiah grew up and moved through life, but he's now able to share his story of how he's working through that, has come to a place of acceptance of his sexuality despite his upbringing, and how now he gets to live.Content warnings: homophobia...
2022-06-291h 26Slow Train to HeckEpisode 21: You Don't Need The Church For ThatThis week, Angela Keeley joins us to chat about her experiences of growing up in small-town Ontario as a Catholic, and how she found freedom in exploring her spirituality on her own without the box the Church built around her. She also talks about discovering her own privilege growing up in that environment as a white, cis-presenting woman despite the narrative of oppression she had lived in, how she worked through the misogyny inherent in that environment, how she unlearned her religious indoctrination and is still working through the nonlinear process of deconstruction, and the new spiritual practices she's...
2022-06-1557 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 20: The Church's Problem With TruthJeremiah Pacey joins the podcast to talk about his experience growing up in evangelicalism, going through seminary, and eventually becoming an evangelical pastor. Today, he has left that environment, is fully LGBTQ2S+ affirming, and now leads a "love directed learning community" called The Banquet in Brantford, Ontario - but on his path to get there he encountered church abuse and religious trauma, not just to the evangelical communities he was a part of, but to himself and his family as well. Jeremiah's story is intense but important to hear, especially for those currently in ministry.Content...
2022-06-012h 01Slow Train to HeckEpisode 19: People Just Made It UpSarah Lussier joins the podcast to share her story of growing up as a missionary kid and how her experiences in missions impacted her deconstruction and eventual departure from Christianity, and how hard it was to come to the realization that the life she was living was a myth. She also digs into her thoughts on how and why people have mystical experiences and how religious trauma affects people in different ways.Sarah's Bandcamp: https://sarahlu.bandcamp.com/Books Sarah references and has found helpful:- Leaving the Fold - A guide for...
2022-05-181h 28Slow Train to HeckEpisode 18: The Troublemaker Has Left The BuildingRebecca Price joins us this week to talk about her deconstruction story - growing up in the church and eventually being the victim of an abusive relationship, which resulted in her questioning what she believed about God and what the church had taught her about who God was. Rebecca explains through her own experiences how church teaching about "the consequences of sin" causes victims in abusive situations to feel like they deserve what's happening to them and amplifies the harm that's already happening. Content warnings: abusive relationships, spiritual gaslighting, victim blaming
2022-05-041h 11Slow Train to HeckEpisode 17: To Feel The Wind On My FaceThis week, Leslie Skolly shares her deconstruction story, which was impacted by her time at Liberty University. She endured a number of painful things there which were reinforced and perpetuated by the evangelical and purity culture infusing that community. Leslie' story is so important for all of us to hear and I'm honoured to be given the opportunity to share it with you.Content warnings: purity culture, rape culture, sexual/physical/verbal/spiritual abuse, gaslighting, victim blaming
2022-04-201h 26Slow Train to HeckEpisode 16: You're Not Broken, You're BeautifulNatalie Van Osch joins the Slow Train to Heck to tell her story of growing up as a trans woman in a rural Catholic community in Ontario where her whole life was wrapped up in the Church, and her journey out of that environment and finding the freedom to explore her own identity. Content Warnings: transphobia, LGBTQ2S+ discrimination, depression, suicide
2022-04-061h 08Slow Train to HeckEpisode 15: Into The WildernessIt's the first Slow Train to Heck of spring! In the spring spirit of new life and growth, we're talking with Fiona Stevenson this week about her own growth through her journey with spirituality. Seasonal metaphors aside, Fiona has a great story detailing the twists and turns of her path through Christianity - growing up as an atheist, converting to Christianity in the form of Catholicism, leaving the Catholic church, then later returning as a true "catholic" in the sense of the universal catholic church. Fiona also has a lot of great encouragement for those of us in the...
2022-03-231h 03Slow Train to HeckEpisode 14: The Church Outside Of ChurchJoin TJ and I as we sit down and talk through his own deconstruction of the concepts of church community, cliques, and church politics - and how difficult it can be in church environments to create truly deep connections. Content warning: depression
2022-03-091h 05Slow Train to HeckEpisode 13: Deconstructing RelationshipThis week it's our first couple interview! I chat with Courtney & Ben about their stories - Courtney is an ex-fundamentalist Christian who has deconstructed her faith and along with that, the monogamous relationship model that is often ingrained into that culture. Ben immigrated to Canada from China and is himself deconstructing his experience of traditional Chinese culture, and we discuss the interesting parallels between that and Courtney's own deconstruction.On top of that, we also talk a lot about sexuality, homeschooling, purity culture and the affects of purity culture on marriages, pornography, and dismantling dichotomous thinking.
2022-02-232h 28Slow Train to HeckEpisode 12: It's Okay To Be HumanThis week, Ray shares her story of exiting fundamentalist Christianity and learning to accept herself as a human. We talk about the constant striving for perfection that evangelicalism encourages, the importance of learning to have compassion for our younger, fundamentalist selves, and moving beyond our past rejection of our own "flesh" and embracing our whole selves through deconstruction.Ray's Book Recommendations: The Dance of the Dissident Daughter - Sue Monk Kidd10 Lies The Church Tells Women: J. Lee GradyContent warnings: misogyny, divorce, depression
2022-02-0958 minSlow Train to HeckEpisode 11: Grace, Hope, and Wide Open SpacesThis week I sit down with Deb Walters, a spiritual director and Enneagram facilitator, and chat about her path out of a narrow and isolating Christianity and into a more loving and open Christianity. Among other things, we discuss the pull of Christian supremacy, the dangers of certainty, parenting through deconstruction and giving kids space to follow their own path, the importance of safe spaces for questions, and we even get a bit meta about the "why" of the podcast. Books Deb references:"The Holy Thursday Revolution" by Beatrice Bruteau"The Universal Christ" by Richard R...
2022-01-261h 09Slow Train to HeckEpisode 10: When The World Was Black And WhiteWe're back for 2022, and we're kicking it off with a really great story from Kelsey Garcia, an advanced care paramedic. She shares her journey from a conservative evangelical Christian working at Christian camps, to her work on the front lines of health care witnessing the reality of death and discovering how often, reality doesn't exactly line up with the picture the church paints of the way the world is. Content warnings for this episode: homophobia, addiction, fatal medical situations, death, residential schoolsCheck out the song Kelsey mentioned - The Fence (Matthew Shepard's Song), by P...
2022-01-121h 00Slow Train to HeckEpisode 9: "Better Than Nothing" Is Not Good EnoughJoin Taylor and I as she details her experiences as a Christian missionary and unpacks the ethical issues that are rampant in that arena. We dig into the inherent Western white Christian supremacist side of missions, the inherent attitude of colonization that's wrapped up in it, the manipulative and abusive side of it, and how when women raise red flags about what's going on, they simply are not believed.Content Warnings: child trafficking, poverty, power abuse, sexual abuse, church abuse, misogynyThe book Taylor mentioned is "Well: Healing our Beautiful, Broken World from a Hospital...
2021-12-151h 25Slow Train to HeckEpisode 8: What All The Love Songs Are AboutOn this episode, Laura Drapeau shares her story of growing up in Western Canada as an evangelical Christian, and having her worldview altered as she encountered other cultures, started asking questions, and discovered her own sexuality as she met her wife in Bible College. She tells such an impactful story of how her view of the LGTBQ2S+ community was shaped by what she heard from the pulpit on Sunday mornings, and how through lived experience, came to realize that what she had been taught couldn't be further from the truth.Just a content warning ahead of...
2021-12-011h 12Slow Train to HeckEpisode 7: Her Side Of The StoryThis week my wife Hannah steps up to the mic and shares her own story of doubt and deconstruction, how my own deconstruction impacted her, and how we make a marriage work in the middle of huge changes in beliefs. We also share some advice (for whatever our advice is worth) to couples experiencing similar belief changes.
2021-11-171h 32Slow Train to HeckEpisode 6: Malice Towards None, Charity For AllThis week I sit down with my friend Kevin Wilcox, a lawyer and evangelical Christian. Instead of the usual deconstruction conversation, we discuss concerns with the direction evangelicalism is headed in Canada, including comparing and contrasting Canadian evangelicalism with its counterpart in the United States. We also talk about the increasing link between evangelicalism and political conservatism, the lack of self-examination in the church, and what we as individuals can do when we see the evangelical church causing harm. I also talk a bit about my own experiences, including how I feel Christianity taught me to hate, w...
2021-11-031h 56Slow Train to HeckEpisode 5: You Could Just NotJoin Kristin Bennett and I as we chat about her upbringing in an evangelical doomsday cult, and her path out. It's a jam-packed episode - we talk about the process of recognizing that what you grew up in was a cult, rapture anxiety, how Christian supremacy is taught to children, sexual repression, purity culture and rape culture, marriage and divorce, and more!
2021-10-201h 35Slow Train to HeckEpisode 4: It's Okay To Let GoOn this episode I talk with my friend Marty Penner about his conservative Mexican Mennonite upbringing and transitioning from that to Satanism. We also discuss dealing with depression, drumming in a Christian metal band while also deconstructing religion, experiencing unconditional love, how he ended up landing at The Meeting House, and where his faith is at today.Surface 2 Air: https://surfacetoair.band/Canadian Suicide Hotline: (833) 456-4566American Suicide Hotline: (800) 273-8255
2021-10-061h 04Slow Train to HeckEpisode 3: Shine A Light On ItNathan and I discuss his own changing beliefs over time and how to interact with those who use their beliefs to damage others. We also discuss Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, disrupting the power structures and the hidden nature of toxic Christianity in Canada, and Nathan's experiences planting and pastoring a church with the Free Methodists in Sarnia, Ontario. It's a jam-packed episode!Nathan's website and blog: https://www.nathancolquhoun.com/
2021-09-221h 09Slow Train to HeckEpisode 2: Sober at Phil'sJoin me and my friend Emma Morrison as we talk about Calvinism, purity culture, church camp, consent, mental illness, Paulsplaining, and the concept of truth.The book Emma references is Unprotected Texts: The Bible's Surprising Contradictions about Sex and Desire, by Jennifer Wright Knust: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/9749712-unprotected-textsThe poem Emma references is Wild Geese, by Mary Oliver: http://www.phys.unm.edu/~tw/fas/yits/archive/oliver_wildgeese.html
2021-09-081h 41Slow Train to HeckEpisode 1: A More Real Version Of YouIt's the first real episode of Slow Train to Heck! Listen in as I talk with my friend Devon Cornelius about systems of power, Christian workplaces, seminary, issues inherent to religious communities, and what a better way to be in community might look like.
2021-08-251h 04Slow Train to HeckEpisode 0: What Is This ThingWelcome to the Slow Train to Heck, a podcast about personal stories of deconstruction and toxic authoritarian religious systems in Canada. This episode, Josiah talks about what this podcast is, what this podcast isn't, and shares his own deconstruction story.New episodes release every other Wednesday!Other podcasts and creators referenced (not affiliated with Slow Train to Heck but great podcasts to check out):Janice Lagata, God Has Not Given: https://janicelagata.com/god-has-not-given Brady Hardin, The Life After: https://www.thelifeafter.org/
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