Shows
White Women Wake UpBelieve First: Trusting Lived Experience Over Comfort BiasIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle step into the awkward pause that follows the question, “Are you sure?” They dissect why white women often doubt a friend’s painful account, tracing the habit to quick-fire heuristics. Proximity bias trusts stories that sound like our own. Authority bias treats doctors, pastors, and headlines as default truth. Comfort bias protects the worldview we already like. The hosts introduce philosopher Miranda Fricker’s idea of epistemic injustice to show how these reflexes silence Black, disabled, and trans voices in courts, hospitals, and boardrooms. Through personal confessions—including Karen’s admission of writing off a friend...2025-07-2536 min
White Women Wake UpEcho Chamber Check: Algorithms, Bias, and Your FeedIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle dive into the hidden power of echo chambers on social media. They compare their own TikTok feeds to reveal how algorithms quietly reinforce race, age, and ideology, even when we think we are curating diverse voices. The hosts unpack how recommendation systems favor anger, diet culture, and other triggers that keep users scrolling, and how that constant reinforcement shapes beliefs, voting habits, and personal relationships. Moving beyond abstract ethics, they examine the real-life impact on white women’s perspective and explore small, practical steps for breaking free: auditing who you follow, intentionally adding di...2025-07-1833 min
White Women Wake UpDecolonizing Daily HabitsIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle move beyond theory to confront how a colonial mindset shows up in choices. They define the colonial mindset as believing resources exist for our claiming, elevating Western norms, and embedding hierarchies of power that erase other histories. Recognizing that giving away property overnight is unrealistic, they explore smaller on-ramps: widening whose stories they consume, questioning scarcity scripts, and sharing space and goods more generously. Examples surface from dismantling dams on the Klamath River to community land trusts that keep neighborhoods in local hands, illustrating how power can be redistributed without waiting for perfect...2025-07-1132 min
White Women Wake UpWhen the Majority Feels Marginalized: Unpacking Reverse DiscriminationIn Episode 31, Jonelle and Karen zero in on the surge of reverse discrimination claims and why they differ fundamentally from racism. They start by defining racism as prejudice backed by systemic power—something only the dominant group can wield—and contrast it with discrimination, which any individual or group can experience. Drawing on a recent Supreme Court ruling under Title VII that lets any employee allege unfair treatment without extra proof, they explore how white-majority workers now invoke reverse discrimination when diversity gains seem to threaten their opportunities. Through examples—from pizza-party scarcity experi...2025-07-0435 min
White Women Wake UpMoving Beyond Me: The Language of IndividualismAfter a brief conversation about how cultural backgrounds influence trauma responses, Karen and Jonelle dive into the concept of individualism as a defining feature of American society. They explore how an overemphasis on personal autonomy—evidenced by the United States scoring 91 on Hofstede’s individualism index—can foster colorblindness, political polarization, and a disconnect from collective wellbeing. Using examples from pandemic-era community efforts, public policy debates and marketing’s shift from mass consumerism to algorithmic personalization, they reveal how hyper-individual appeals shape our beliefs and behaviors. Through candid personal anecdotes and research insights, the hosts challenge listeners to identify moments...2025-06-2732 min
White Women Wake UpTriggered or Traumatized? Cultural Clashes, Friendship Friction, and the Cost of Centering OurselvesIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle explore the emotional terrain of being triggered and the deeper layers of trauma shaped by culture, history, and identity. Prompted by a listener's question, they unpack how cultural norms influence what wounds us and how we react. From parking disputes with neighbors to friendship breakdowns and unintentional exclusion, they reflect on how centering our perspective can deepen division rather than build understanding. They also discuss inherited behaviors, shame spirals, and the unspoken trauma many white women carry, while highlighting how a “traveler’s mindset” can help us move through discomfort with curiosity instead of def...2025-06-2032 min
White Women Wake UpBeyond Nice: White Female Friendships and the Cost of CompetitionIn this deeply personal episode, Karen and Jonelle explore how colonial patterns have shaped white female friendships, often embedding competition, scarcity, and passive aggression into our closest relationships. They unpack the inherited values of "niceness" and the need to compete, reflecting on how these patterns undermine authentic connection. Drawing from personal stories, recent research, and generational insight, the conversation reveals how internalized systems of power and comparison show up in everyday interactions. From the loneliness of mismatched life stages to the legacy of centering ourselves in conversations, this episode challenges listeners to rethink friendship through the lens of truth-telling...2025-06-1334 min
White Women Wake UpColonization, Scarcity, and the Stories We TellIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle go deep on the colonial mindset—not just as history, but as a living framework that still shapes white imagination, entitlement, and fear. Inspired by the books Decolonizing Therapy by Dr. Jennifer Mullan and Louder Than the Lies by Ellie Yang Camp, Karen shares how unlearning colonization has cracked open her own views on land, ownership, capitalism, and scarcity. Together, they unpack how discovery narratives erase Indigenous presence, how Columbus Day still distorts national memory, and how white women can move beyond land acknowledgments to reparative action. They as...2025-06-0633 min
White Women Wake UpBurning the Myths: Plantations, Patriotism, and the Cost of ErasureIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle tackle the uneasy allure of Southern plantations after a fire destroyed Louisiana’s lucrative Nottaway plantation resort. They ask why a venue built on slavery is still marketed as picture-perfect while weddings at Auschwitz are unimaginable. Their conversation traces the post-Civil War propaganda that turned forced-labor camps into symbols of elegance, from Gone with the Wind to today’s billion-dollar bridal circuit. They unpack the difference between patriotism and nationalism, question whether church and state can ever be separate, and expose how white naivety shields comfort by erasing brutality. The hosts debate if prof...2025-05-3034 min
White Women Wake UpGod & Government: White Women Confront Christian NationalismIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle unpack the viral images of an all‑white evangelical worship service held in the West Wing—juxtaposed with the same‑day arrest of Black pastors praying in the Capitol rotunda—and ask what these moments reveal about white Christian nationalism. Drawing on their own faith journeys, they explore why so many white women see church‑run government as “values‑based” leadership, how U.S. history warned against that fusion, and why countries that entwine religion and state so often curtail education, civil liberties, and women’s rights. The hosts challenge li...2025-05-2333 min
White Women Wake UpDandyism & Discomfort: When Met‑Gala Glam Confronts White Women’s ComfortThis White Women Wake Up episode centers around the 2025 Met Gala’s “Superfine Tailoring” celebration of Black dandyism. Jonelle and Karen trace the style’s lineage from enslaved ingenuity and Harlem Renaissance flair to modern designers reclaiming sharp suits and vivid prints, applauding scholar‑curator Dr. Monica Miller while questioning whether Vogue’s celebrity spectacle can honor context or only repackage resistance as trend. They probe how white women’s drive for perfect optics—clothing, productivity, niceness—masks discomfort and maintains racial ignorance. Fashion becomes a mirror: when does admiration become appropriation, and how can we slow down enough to credit labor, p...2025-05-1634 min
White Women Wake UpTears, Boundaries, and Toxic Positivity: Unpacking Emotional WhitenessWhat does it mean to be “too much” in a world that tells you to quiet down? In this episode, Karen and Jonelle wrestle with emotional regulation, not as a healthy coping skill, but as a tool shaped by white supremacy culture. They explore how white norms have defined what counts as “appropriate” emotion, from the weaponization of white women’s tears to the silencing of grief, passion, and neurodiverse expression. Through personal stories—from navigating neurodiversity in their family to cultural experiences of communal mourning—they expose how “calm” often means “comfortable for whiteness.” The episode also dives into toxic positivity...2025-05-0935 min
White Women Wake UpYour Body Isn’t Broken: How White Supremacy Taught Us to Hate OurselvesIn this raw and emotional episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle tackle the hidden biases white women carry about their own bodies—and the deep roots of those biases in white supremacy and patriarchy. From public apologies around ableism to unflinching reflections on internalized fatphobia, they unpack the inherited cycles of shame around body image, thinness ideals, and health stigma. Sharing personal stories about family systems, medical bias, and eating disorders, they highlight how these internalized standards disconnect us not only from ourselves but also from others. This conversation challenges listeners to recognize that overcoming bias re...2025-05-0231 min
White Women Wake UpMy Body Is Always PoliticalWhat does it mean to move through the world in a body that’s always political? In this episode, Karen and Jonelle unpack a powerful statement from a Black speaker—“My body is always political”—and explore the privilege of not having to think about how our bodies are judged, policed, or made into symbols. From airport observations to experiences shaped by body size, sexual orientation, racial identity, and physical ability, the conversation dives deep into how systems assign value and meaning to our existence. They confront the discomfort of being white women who’ve been taught to avoid “politics” and...2025-04-2533 min
White Women Wake UpProtest or Rally? Performative or Powerful?In this raw and revealing episode, Karen and Jonelle unpack their differing views of protest, rally, or march. They explore how white women often confuse symbolic gestures with real action, and why language matters when organizing for justice. From the power of the 3.5% rule in civil resistance to the emotional toll of corporate boycotts, the episode dives deep into what it means to show up for change. The duo reflects on white women’s proximity to power, how that can reinforce the patriarchy, and why discomfort is a necessary part of growth. It’s a candid conversation about getting hone...2025-04-1833 min
White Women Wake UpSexism, Solidarity, and the White Woman’s Blind SpotIn this powerful and deeply reflective episode, Karen and Jonelle explore how white women’s proximity to white male power—shaped by sexism—impacts their ability to build genuine solidarity with women of color. What starts as a conversation about problematic idioms quickly evolves into a vulnerable unpacking of how white women are socialized to play the game of white male approval—often unconsciously. They examine how this alignment distances them from the lived realities of Black and brown women, whose challenges are compounded by both racism and sexism. Through honest dialogue, they confront the uncomfortable truth: white feminism has ofte...2025-04-1135 min
White Women Wake UpUnpacking Language: The Hidden Bias in Everyday IdiomsIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle dive into the unconscious bias embedded in common idioms. Building on previous discussions about colorblindness and cultural gatekeeping, they explore how phrases like "black and white thinking," "ghetto," and "Indian giver" carry deep racial and historical implications. The conversation unpacks how these terms reinforce harmful narratives, often without our awareness. They also discuss the importance of shifting our language to be more inclusive and thoughtful. Through personal stories, surprising discoveries, and candid dialogue, this episode challenges listeners to examine the words they use and embrace more mindful communication...2025-04-0433 min
White Women Wake UpCultural Fit or White Gatekeeping? Unpacking the BiasIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, we dive into the concept of “cultural fit” in hiring and its potential to serve as a form of white gatekeeping. We explore how the idea of cultural fit often excludes diverse candidates by reinforcing a narrow, homogeneous understanding of workplace culture. Karen and Jonelle discuss the biases inherent in these practices, the barriers they create for marginalized groups, and how white women can play a key role in challenging these norms. Tune in as we unpack the subtle yet powerful ways bias shapes hiring decisions and the importance of fostering incl...2025-03-2831 min
White Women Wake UpBeyond Colorblindness: Why Erasing Race Erases the Full StoryIn this powerful episode of White Women Wake Up, co-hosts Jonelle and Karen welcome Dr. Raedene Copeland, a brand strategist and leadership expert, to unpack the complexities of racial colorblindness. Together, we explore how the well-intended idea of "not seeing color" actually erases identity, maintains systemic inequities, and hinders meaningful conversations about race. As a naturalized U.S. citizen, Dr. Copeland challenges the myth of neutrality in race relations. We discuss the historical roots of colorblindness, its role in reinforcing power structures, and why embracing racial differences is key to genuine equity and understanding.Call to...2025-03-2136 min
White Women Wake UpBreaking the Discomfort Cycle: From Defensiveness to ActionIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle delve into the "Discomfort Cycle" — a recurring pattern of defensiveness, shame, anger, and apathy that often emerges when confronting issues of race, sexism, ableism, and more. They explore personal stories of defensiveness in tough conversations, how white women in particular can struggle with discomfort, and the toll it takes. Karen and Jonelle break down how these cycles can spiral into exhaustion and apathy but also share how moving toward action can be a pathway to breaking the cycle. They discuss strategies for navigating difficult conversations and overcoming the ur...2025-03-1433 min
White Women Wake UpWhitesplaining and the Super Bowl: A Conversation About EntitlementIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle dive into a conversation sparked by the 2025 Super Bowl performance by Kendrick Lamar. What initially seemed like an exciting cultural moment for all turned into a reflection on white entitlement and the subtle ways white people, even progressive ones, can overstep in conversations about marginalized communities. As they unpack their reactions to the performance, Karen and Jonelle explore the importance of recognizing when something is not for you and the pitfalls of “whitesplaining” – the tendency for white people to over-explain or take ownership of narratives that aren’t theirs...2025-03-0731 min
White Women Wake UpDEI Backlash: Unpacking White ExhaustionIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle tackle the growing backlash against Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives. They explore how DEI has been weaponized, why diversity remains a scary concept for many, and the irony of the term "white exhaustion." The conversation dives into the frustration some white allies feel due to a perceived lack of progress post-2020 and how this ties into broader societal patterns of privilege and disengagement. They also examine corporate DEI efforts, the resistance from leadership, and how CEOs view DEI as a double-edged sword. Ultimately, the episode challenges listeners...2025-02-2832 min
White Women Wake UpThe One-Third Rule: Moving Beyond Performative AllyshipIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle explore the "one-third rule," a practice used by Tina Tchen, Michelle Obama’s former chief of staff. This rule emphasizes ensuring that at least one-third of decision-making spaces are occupied by women and people of color to create meaningful representation. They discuss how corporate culture often resists these efforts and how DEI initiatives are being demonized and dismantled.Karen shares her personal experiences of intentionally expanding her professional circles beyond white colleagues to foster authentic diversity. They unpack the challenges of performative activism versus genuine inclusion and the need to create sp...2025-02-2130 min
White Women Wake UpFrom Norm to Noticing: Unpacking White Culture’s InfluenceIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle dive deep into the concept of white culture, its historical roots, and how it continues to shape societal norms and policies. They discuss the origins of the term "Caucasian," tracing it back to a pseudoscientific study in the 1800s. They also explore how race was constructed in the U.S. after Bacon’s Rebellion in the 1670s. They reflect on how white culture is often invisible to those who benefit from it and how assumptions about normalcy and superiority can be embedded in everyday life. The conversation highlights th...2025-02-1428 min
White Women Wake UpFrom Awareness to Action: Challenging Our Own NarrativesIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, Karen and Jonelle dive into the complexities of authentic allyship. They share personal stories of confronting privilege—one involving the pitfalls of colorblindness in a multicultural workplace and another about shifting deep-seated biases in personal relationships. Through these reflections, they ask tough questions: Are their efforts performative, or are they truly dismantling privilege and oppression?Acknowledging their privilege as white women, they emphasize the need for self-examination, meaningful action, and amplifying marginalized voices. This raw, vulnerable conversation reminds listeners that growth is messy but necessary for real change....2025-02-0728 min
White Women Wake UpBias and the Power of PerceptionIn this episode, Karen and Jonelle explore the shifting public perception of the Menendez brothers’ case and use it as a springboard to discuss societal biases. They examine why certain conversations, like those about sexual abuse, have progressed while discussions around race, gender identity, and privilege continue to face resistance. The co-hosts delve into the roles of white women in shaping these narratives, the comfort found in victimhood versus accountability, and the dangers of diluting intersectional issues. This candid conversation challenges listeners to confront their biases and to reflect on how personal experiences shape collective perceptions.Ac...2025-01-3123 min
White Women Wake UpBreaking the Comparison Trap: Listening with Intention and AwarenessIn this episode of White Women Wake Up co-hosts Jonelle and Karen explore the pitfalls of comparison. They examine how comparisons can diminish others' lived experiences, particularly when privilege or cultural bias shapes the lens of understanding. They acknowledge that comparisons often stem from well-meaning intentions, like fostering empathy, but can unintentionally shut down meaningful conversations.The discussion delves into cultural habits, particularly inherited tendencies among white individuals, to center personal perspectives over others’ realities. This, they suggest, may stem from ingrained privilege rather than overt white supremacy, emphasizing the importance of recognizing these dynamics without defensiveness....2025-01-2428 min
White Women Wake UpFear, Facts, and Trans Rights: Breaking Down Barriers to UnderstandingIn this episode of 'White Women Wake Up,' co-hosts Karen and Jonelle discuss the relationship between fear and policy, particularly focusing on transgender issues and gender-affirming care for youth. They address the importance of listening to diverse perspectives, the misinformation surrounding gender-affirming care, and the harmful impact of absolutes like those expressed by J.K. Rowling. They emphasize the importance of education, empathy, and understanding, encouraging listeners to explore the personal stories of transgender youth and the benefits of gender-affirming care in reducing mental health challenges and suicide risks.Call to ActionEducate Yourself on...2025-01-1726 min
White Women Wake UpThe Fight for Safe Spaces in EducationIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, hosts Jonelle and Karen explore the complexities surrounding a policy requiring teachers to inform parents if students disclose their gender identity or pronouns at school. This mandate, embedded in a California mental health bill, has sparked debate over balancing student privacy with parental rights. The discussion highlights the unique challenges faced by transgender and nonbinary youth, particularly in households where disclosure might not feel safe. The hosts also examine how this policy intersects with existing protections like Title IX and broader questions about mental health, safety, and trust in educational settings...2025-01-1027 min
White Women Wake UpCancel Culture: Growth or ShutdownToday's discussion centers on the provocative idea that cancel culture may inadvertently reinforce white supremacy. The hosts reflect on how canceling individuals for past mistakes can stifle meaningful dialogue and leads to performative activism rather than fostering change. They emphasize that cancel culture, while sometimes justified, typically lacks nuance, excluding individuals without space for redemption. The hosts argue for creating spaces for transformative conversations rooted in love, empathy, and understanding, encouraging growth and personal development. They critique the tendency of cancel culture to discourage learning and engagement, sharing personal examples of fear and cultural misunderstandings. Ultimately, the episode advocates...2025-01-0330 min
White Women Wake UpUnpacking Triggers: Bridging Perspectives and Fostering GrowthIn this episode of White Women Wake Up, hosts Jonelle and Karen dive into an honest, raw exploration of the words, biases, and perspectives that trigger them as white women navigating conversations about race and privilege. Through personal stories—like Karen's internal judgments and Jonelle's discomfort with differing family views—they unpack the emotional weight of terms like "white women" and "racism," acknowledging their cultural baggage and impact.Acknowledging that their casual tone might be unsettling for marginalized communities, Jonelle and Karen emphasize the necessity of leaning into discomfort as white women committed to growth. They reflect on t...2024-12-2734 min
Commonwealth Club of California PodcastThis Year in Climate: 20242024 set new records for extreme heat around the world in what is already the warmest decade on record. According to the World Meteorological Organization, sea-level rise and ocean heating are accelerating along with the loss of ice from glaciers. We continue to see extreme weather of all kinds wreak havoc on communities across the world. In spite of the growing disruption, countries continue to miss their self-imposed climate targets. And in November, the U.S. re-elected Donald Trump to the presidency, a move that will almost certainly slow the transition to cleaner forms of energy.And yet...2024-12-201h 03
Climate OneThis Year in Climate: 20242024 set new records for extreme heat around the world in what is already the warmest decade on record. According to the World Meteorological Organization, sea-level rise and ocean heating are accelerating along with the loss of ice from glaciers. We continue to see extreme weather of all kinds wreak havoc on communities across the world. In spite of the growing disruption, countries continue to miss their self-imposed climate targets. And in November, the U.S. re-elected Donald Trump to the presidency, a move that will almost certainly slow the transition to cleaner forms of energy.And yet...2024-12-201h 07
White Women Wake UpThe Myth of Neutral: Race, Gender, and AccountabilityJonelle and Karen discuss the unintentional harm caused by well-meaning actions, particularly microaggressions, which dismiss and invalidate marginalized identities. They explore how white women often perpetuate inequality without realizing it. Karen shares a personal story about a microaggression she committed, highlighting the importance of recognizing and addressing subconscious biases. They also delve into the impact of white feminism, noting how it has historically excluded Black women and other marginalized groups. Finally, they critique Walmart's stance on neutrality in supplier diversity, arguing it masks underlying racism and sexism. The episode concludes with a challenge to listeners to engage in non-judgmental...2024-12-2026 min
White Women Wake UpPerformative Activism vs. Meaningful Change: Lessons from a Sundown TownThis episode delves into the complexities of allyship and systemic racism through the lens of a viral TikTok controversy involving the town of Coleman, Alabama—a historic sundown town. Karen and Jonelle unpack the story of a well-meaning white woman whose offer to "hold hands" with Black visitors at a Christmas market sparked backlash online. They explore the concept of performative actions, the discomfort of receiving criticism, and the importance of listening to marginalized voices. Through reflection, they highlight the need for long-term, community-driven change to dismantle racism and offer practical steps for better allyship.We would lo...2024-12-1329 min
White Women Wake UpStarting the Journey: Learning, Growing, and Waking UpThis episode introduces a space for honest conversations about self-reflection, personal growth, and navigating privilege. We’ll unpack inherited biases, foster accountability, and explore ways to deepen understanding through open dialogue.Here is a summary of this episode:Different Life Perspectives: A millennial and a baby boomer share their unique experiences and lessons learned as they navigate privilege, bias, and personal growth.The Journey of Growth: Focusing on the importance of asking tough questions, leaning into discomfort, and unlearning old patterns to foster both personal and collective growth.Building Connections: Cr...2024-12-0528 min
Major League Eventing PodcastKatie Malensek - Canadian 4* Eventer and VeterinarianKaren and Robby get to know Canadian 4* Eventer, Katie Malensek. Not only does Katie ride at the upper levels and has represented Canada at the Nations Cup in Belgium but she is also a full time veterinarian! Katie and her husband now live at their farm in Florida not far from the beach so he can surf and close to Katie's office. Katie shares her story of staying with Tim and Jonelle Price and the amazing experience she had while there. We hope you enjoy getting to know Katie as much as we did!PC: Liz Crawley2024-05-151h 03
Major League Eventing PodcastMonica Spencer - New Zealand 2022 Pratoni World Equestrian Championships Team Bronze MedalistKaren and Robby get to know New Zealand Eventer, Monica Spencer. Monica shares her experience of growing up in NZ and then being a member of the bronze medalist team along with Tim and Jonelle Price! She tells us the long journey it took to travel to the US and her plans of competing at the Maryland 5* in October.PC: Libby Law PhotographyFollow Monica's journey here:https://www.facebook.com/oakleyeventingPlease support our sponsors:https://cowboymagic.com/https://manentailequine.com/https://exhibitorlabs.com/https://www.triplecrownfeed...2023-08-2331 min
Here:Say StorytellingLove Craptually
In our post-Valentine's love hangover, Here:Say storytellers got into tales of love gone astray... Featuring Betsy Emdin, Brad Lystra, Jonelle Bowers, Heather Hudson, Lisa Rosendahl, and Karen Stein.
2018-03-131h 08
Here:Say StorytellingThat Week...Sometimes we get a whole lot of life in the span of just one week. Performers took the stage on December 20, 2017, to tell true tales of their weeks that were *that* week. Featuring Jonelle Bowers, Matt Soderquist, Jenn Cameron, Heather Schalge, Pauly Hurlbert, and Karen Stein
2018-01-081h 32
Here:Say StorytellingIPR Summer Reruns Episode 2"Summer Reruns" features some of our favorite stories from past Here:Say shows, presented by Interlochen Public Radio at the Upton-Morley Pavilion at the Interlochen Center for the Arts. This show is presented in two parts: Part 2, which aired October 8 on IPR, features Jonelle Bowers, Jeff Smith, Karen Stein, and Kate Botello.
2017-11-1253 min
Here:Say Storytelling2BR/2BAWrite your name on all the food you bought, use all the hot water, leave a stack of dirty dishes in the sink for a week, write a passive-aggressive note, and tie a sock around your doorknob… on January 16, our scheduled performers told true stories about roommates, and it wasn't pretty!
Featuring: Karin Killian, Katie Mae Scripps, Elon Cameron, Jonelle Bowers, Jeff Smith, Karen Stein
2017-11-121h 28
Here:Say StorytellingGold StarIs it true that everyone gets a gold star just for showing up? Performers at the first show of Season 3 in October 2015 told tales about the times they got some sort of gold star.... or didn't....
Featuring: Lesley Tye, Jonelle Bowers, Kathryn Henning Callison, Karen Stein,
Daniel Stewart, Jen Loup, Nancy Baker
2017-11-121h 14