Shows
The Church LobbyEp 121: Six Big Shifts In How People Volunteer—And How To Respond, with Laurie GrahamKarl Vaters talks to Laurie Graham about some of the big ways volunteerism has changed, and how we, as church leaders, can respond to these trends.Laurie runs smallchurchministry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches.This is Laurie’s second time on the podcast (the last time she was known as Laurie Acker), and in this conversation she and Karl talk about how church volunteerism has been affected by people’s changing schedules, their desire for deeper meaning, the need to restore their trust, and...
2026-02-0550 minThe Church LobbyEp 120: Experiencing Scripture Like Dallas Willard, with Dave RipperKarl Vaters talks through some helpful guidelines with Dave Ripper about how to read, meditate, and teach from the Bible in a richer, deeper way.Dave is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multicongregational church in southern New Hampshire, focused on spiritual formation, and is the author of Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard.Karl and Dave explore who Dallas Willard was, and what his way of reading the Bible can do for us, including:Willard’s four steps on how to read the BibleA fi...
2026-01-2247 minThe Church LobbyEp 119: Pushing Back Against The Lie Of Fast Church Growth, with Jeff HoglenHave you ever gone to a church growth conference and been told “all healthy things grow?”Karl Vaters talks with Jeff Hoglen about what’s happening behind that idea, and why it can be a problem for a lot of pastors and churches. The conversation is based on an article Jeff wrote, called “The Church Growth Lie No One Talks About.”Karl and Jeff talk about what that lie is, why we keep believing it, and what to do, instead.They also discuss alternative ways to look at church health and growth, including:How grow...
2026-01-0835 minThe Church LobbyEp 118: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters, with Brad EdwardsKarl Vaters talks with Brad Edwards about the shift that’s happened over the last decade or so in how people perceive institutions, especially the institutional church.In this conversation they talk about how the rise of radical individualism has replaced once-trusted institutions, why a distrust in institutions is problematic, and why institutions—especially the church—still matter.Brad is a church planter and pastor of The Table Church in Lafayette, CO. He’s also the author of, The Reason for Church: Why the Body of Christ Still Matters in an Age of Anxiety, Division, and Radical...
2025-12-181h 08The Church LobbyEp 117: The Growing Problem of Gambling Addiction in the Church, with Dr. Donald LichiDo you know how to spot if someone in your congregation has a gambling problem? Once it’s been spotted or confessed, do you know what to do?Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Don Lichi about one of the fastest-growing addictions in the world, including:How is gambling defined?Why does it have such a strong grip on some people?Who is most likely to be addicted?How to get helpAnd moreDonald Lichi is vice president emeritus of Emerge Counseling Ministries, and author of the article, Is Gambling a Problem in th...
2025-12-0450 minThe Church LobbyEp 116: How Your Church Can Help People Recover from Grief, with Jeff ForreyKarl Vaters talks with Dr. Jeff Forrey about grief, recovery, and how your church can help people, both inside and outside the congregation, deal with grief in healthy ways.Grief has no rules, but there are healthy ways through it. And churches—small churches especially—are uniquely suited to provide real comfort for people in these difficult seasons of loss.Karl and Jeff talk about some important principles, including:Why do we need help with grief?What kind of damage can we experience if we don’t deal with grief properly?What's a typical time f...
2025-11-2045 minThe Church LobbyEp 115: Church, Parachurch, and Missio Dei, with Dr. Angie WardIn recent decades, parachurch organizations have carved out an important space in church life and ministry.Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Angie Ward about why it’s important for ministers to take a closer look at what the church is, what parachurch organizations bring to the mix, and how we can move forward more missionally, even as the emphasis on institutions diminishes.Dr. Ward is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She’s also the author of Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missi...
2025-11-0646 minThe Church LobbyEp 114: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon, with Austin CartyIf you’re a preaching pastor, you know what it means to feel the burden and the joy of preparing and preaching a sermon every Sunday. No matter how many years we’ve done it, we can always use a little more help to do it better.Karl Vaters talks with Austin Carty about the craft of writing and delivering a weekly sermon, based on Austin’s latest book, Some of the Words Are Theirs: The Art of Writing and Living a Sermon. Austin is the pastor of Boulevard Baptist Church, a small congregation in Anderson, SC.Kar...
2025-10-231h 06The Church LobbyEp 113: What I Found on the Other Side of Church Growth, with Paul DazetWhat happens when all the church growth principles that were working in your church, suddenly stop working when you need them the most?Karl Vaters interviews Paul Dazet about what happened to him, as the pastor of a fast-growing church shortly after he was diagnosed with cancer. Over 100 members left, saying things like “I just can’t handle being sad at church,” and “It used to be so energetic. Your illness changed the whole vibe.” Paul’s illness and the shaved head that went with it were seen as a show of weakness, need, and vulnerability that many people...
2025-10-0942 minThe Church LobbyEp 112: Making Room for Loss and Grief In Life and Ministry, with Leanne FriesenKarl Vaters interviews Leanne Friesen about grief. Specifically, how pastors, family members, and other caring people can help give people the room to process their grief when they go through a profound loss. Karl and Leanne also talk about how to process those feelings ourselves.Leanne is a former pastor and is the author of Grieving Room: Making Space for All the Hard Things after Death and Loss. She talks with wisdom and compassion about the difficult, but important principles she learned as she went through the death of her sister more than a decade ago....
2025-09-2550 minThe Church LobbyEp 111: Using AI To Find Great Sermon Illustrations, with Darrell StetlerKarl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about a new AI program Darrell has created, called Sermon Illustrator.After a short introduction to what AI is, and some of the advantages and dangers of using it, they narrow in on this tool that helps pastors with a very specific task – finding illustrations (stories, metaphors, historical events, and so on) that can give your well-prepared sermon a story, a photo, a video, or another illustration that will help your content connect in a memorable way.Podcast Links:Sermon IllustratorGet the AI Training Course ($27 offer for podcast lis...
2025-09-1148 minThe Church LobbyEp 110: Healthy Goal-setting and Helping The Big Church Feel Small, with Luke SimmonsKarl Vaters talks with Luke Simmons, the pastor of Ironwood Church in Mesa, AZ. Recently, Luke and his church elders decided to pursue a very ambitious goal with the aim of helping their large, growing congregation feel smaller and more connected.As a big-church pastor, Luke is not a typical Church Lobby guest, but he and Karl follow each other on X (formerly Twitter) and when Luke posted about this plan it inspired a lot of questions and curiosity. The plan is for the members of their elder team to have one-on-one meetings with 1,000 church members over coff...
2025-08-2847 minThe Church LobbyEp 109: The Future is Bivocational, with Andrew HamiltonOver the last few months, several of our podcasts have been about bivo/covocationality, side hustles for pastors, and so on. And more are on the way.Why? Because the future of the church is bivocational. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks to Andrew Hamilton about the content from his book, The Future is Bivocational: Shaping Christian Leaders for a Post-Christian World, including the theological foundation for bivocational ministry, how work isn’t a sinful result of the fall, but an element of God’s creative design for us, and the value of covocational ministry for the pastor...
2025-08-141h 02The Church LobbyEp 108: Creating an Environment for Discipleship to Thrive and Multiply, with Bryan Sims*ATTENTION NEEDED* Help us get to Malaysia by going to KarlVaters.com/supportAnything you can give will be appreciated.Karl Vaters interviews Bryan Sims about creating an environment for discipleship to thrive, from his book, Creating Space: Cultivating Environments for Disciples of Jesus to Thrive and Multiply (co-written with Craig Robertson).In the first half of the book, and of our conversation, we talk about the importance of creating PSDs (Passionate Spiritual Disciples) and how the church needs to get better at creating space for it to happen among our church members.
2025-07-311h 07The Church LobbyEp 107: Optimizing Your Church Website for Three Key Types of Visitors, with Derek MaxsonKarl Vaters interviews Derek Maxson about some simple ways to make sure your church website is reaching the three kinds of people who are most likely to use it.Derek runs Spiffy.Church, an online ministry that specializes in helping smaller churches get the most from their websites, using limited time and resources.Derek and Karl talk about how to optimize your church website by making it simple and affordable, and how to use it to help three types of people.Insiders (your church members and regulars)Shoppers (those looking for a new church h...
2025-07-1746 minThe Church LobbyEp 106: Segregation, Affinity Spaces, and How the Gospel Defeats Racism, with Mika EdmondsonKarl Vaters interviews Mike Edmondson about the hot-button topics of racial segregation in the American church, why affinity spaces matter, and how the gospel defeats racism – even the racism that has sometimes been promoted within the institutional church.Mika speaks with experience, wisdom, directness, and grace, generating more light than heat.Some of what Mika and Karl talk about includes:What is segregation?What is “Hereditary Heathenism?”Why did historically black churches begin?What are “Affinity Spaces” and why do they matter?How can we think and act more biblically about issues of race?And more...
2025-07-031h 05The Church LobbyEp 105: Recovering from Sexually Related Trauma, with Rachel BrenRachel Bren is a survivor of sexually related trauma, and now she serves with SRTServices.org, which helps people recover from their trauma, and can help you and your church. She’s also the co-host of the Grace & Grenades podcast.Karl Vaters interviews Rachel about what sexual related trauma is, how the church can help those dealing with it, some mistakes to avoid, and more.Links:SRTServices.orgGrace & GrenadesOur church introduction videoBrene Brown video on sympathy vs. empathyThe Allender Center PodcastThe Place We Find Ourselves PodcastGrace & Grenades PodcastYou can reach Rachel by email at rachel@sr...
2025-06-2046 minThe Church LobbyEp 104: What Is the Minimum for a Church to be Viable? with Sam PetersKarl Vaters interviews Sam Peters about the microchurch model, and more specifically, what are the minimum aspects that need to be in place for a church to be a church?If you’re serving a small church that’s considering if you have a viable path forward, the microchurch model is worth considering, and Sam offers some help for thinking about it in fresh, new ways.Sam Peters is a church consultant, and the author of several books, including Small Church, Big Opportunity; BIG Faith: Six Key Factors that Grow Your Faith in God, & Rebuilding Stronger: Na...
2025-06-0554 minThe Church LobbyEp 103: Helping Small Churches Win Guests, with Desmond BarrettKarl Vaters interviews Desmond Barrett about how small churches can do a better job at reaching, welcoming, and keeping guests.Desmond is the author of Helping Small Churches Win Guests: Preparing to Increase Attendance, which is a short, but very practical book that pastors will find great benefit in.Karl and Desmond talk about:How to reimagine the church facility from the parking lot to the pewWhy sharing updates about facility improvements is attractive to guestsWhy so many pastors and church leaders resist doing what needs to be doneWhy “we just need to attract youn...
2025-05-221h 01The Church LobbyEp 102: Five Trends In Technology and the Church, with Brad HillKarl Vaters interviews Brad Hill about some of the latest findings concerning the church and technology.Brad is the Chief Solutions Officer at Gloo, an organization that came out of nowhere a few years ago, and now seems to be everywhere.After clarifying Karl’s curiosity about who/what Gloo actually is, they talk about some of the important findings from a recent study Gloo conducted with Barna.If you’re not an early adopter of technology, this can help you navigate the fast-changing landscape without getting bogged down in details.The fiv...
2025-05-0850 minThe Church LobbyEp 101: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, with Eric HokeEric Hoke is known as the “I Help Pastors Get Jobs” Guy.Karl Vaters talks with Eric about how to build long-term sustainable ministry, reduce financial stress, and create value in the marketplace by becoming an intentionally covocational pastor.Eric’s new book, Market Street Pastor: Ministry Sustainability without Money Stress, addresses many of the issues involved in making the shift toward covocational ministry.This conversation covers the subjects of:The mindset shift that most pastors must take to start down this roadThe value pastors bring to the marketplaceFinding your marketable skills through...
2025-04-2448 minThe Church LobbyEp 100: The Pastor, the Bible, and Growing Up In a Pastor’s Home (with Albert Vaters)For Episode 100, Karl Vaters has a very special conversation with his father, Albert Vaters, about the pastor’s relationship with God’s Word, the Bible.In addition to each of them spending 40 years as pastors (over 80 years of combined pastoral ministry!), they were also both raised as preacher’s kids, so they can speak from multiple perspectives about life in a pastor’s home.In this conversation, Karl and Albert talk about:What it was like to be raised with a positive experience in a pastor’s homeHow to give the Bible a central place in o...
2025-04-1047 minThe Church LobbyEp 099: Russ Taff, on Childhood Trauma, Church Hurt, Alcoholism, Fame, Redemption, and His New AlbumKarl Vaters talks with Russ Taff. One of the great voices of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) in the 1970s-90s, Russ won five Grammys, 13 Dove Awards, and was inducted into the Gospel Music Hall of Fame three times (with the Imperials, the Gaither Vocal Band, and as a solo artist).He also spent decades struggling with alcoholism, church hurt, and shame, stemming from the severe trauma he experienced in the pastor's house of his childhood.This interview is raw. It’s real, and it’s very emotional.In addition to talking through his testimon...
2025-03-272h 05The Church LobbyEp 95: The Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit, with Sean NemecekA clergy sabbatical is not a luxury for the few, it’s an essential element in recalibrating your ministry and reestablishing healthy habits for ministry longevity.Sabbaticals are having a moment right now. With the accelerated pace of life and ministry, we’re recognizing their value in a fresh, new way.Sean Nemecek and the team at Pastor In Residence Ministries have been working with pastors for years, helping them get the most out of a sabbatical. And now they’ve put it all in one place with the Clergy Sabbatical Toolkit,, a practical guide that wi...
2025-01-3049 minThe Church LobbyEp 94: Using Storytelling Techniques to Make Your Message Stick, with Payton MinzenmayerHave you ever noticed that people don’t pay attention to sermons the way they used to? It may not be the fault of shorter attention spans (not exclusively, anyway). There’s a lot more happening — and we, as pastors and communicators can do something about it.Karl Vaters talks with Payton Minzenmayer. He's a pastor, and the founder of ChristianStoryLab.com, a new website that offers great ideas to make our writing and speaking more engaging by using the aspects of story — just like Jesus did.Some of what they talk about includes: GamificationThe Open...
2025-01-1649 minThe Church LobbyEp 93: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul JonesAccording to John’s vision in Revelation 7:9, heaven will be filled with people who are still recognized by their ethnicity (every nation, tribe, people, and language). So, if we want the church here and now to reflect that, Sunday mornings must stop being the most segregated time of the week.That’s the premise of Karl Vaters’ conversation with Jamaal Williams and Timothy Paul Jones, the co-authors of In Church as It Is in Heaven: Cultivating a Multiethnic Kingdom Culture, which Karl named as one of his best nonfiction books of the year for 2024.Jamaal and Tim...
2025-01-021h 00The Church LobbyEp 92: How Christianity Became The Air We All Breathe, with Glen ScrivenerThe crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus changed everything. Not just for eternity, but for the world here and now.According to Glen Scrivener, the author of The Air We Breathe, How We All Came to Believe In Freedom, Kindness, Progress, and Equality, most of what we now consider to be self-evident human values were not so evident or common before Jesus.In this conversation, Karl and Glen talk about:How so many principles that most people consider universal, are actually the result of the Christian worldviewWhy this goes unnoticed by people, Christians and non-Christians a...
2024-12-1945 minThe Church LobbyEp 91: The Prophetic Voice of Deconstruction, with Scot McKnightKarl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about what we can learn from those who are deconstructing their faith.This conversation is based on the content of Scot’s new book (co-written with Tommy Preson Phillips), Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ.This is a challenging book and a challenging conversation, especially if you are to the right of center theologically and politically (like Scot and Karl). But I encourage you not to write it off for those reasons.Scot makes the case, through personal observation and thorough stat...
2024-12-0544 minThe Church LobbyEp 90: How Bible Reading Can Jumpstart Your Church’s Discipleship, with Matt LucasKarl Vaters interviews Matt Lucas about starting your congregation on the road to spiritual maturity through increasing their Bible reading. Specifically, how reading the Bible at least four times a week is so powerful, it's been called "The Power of Four."Matt is the CEO of Our Daily Bread (known for their quarterly devotionals) and The Center for Bible Engagement.Karl and Matt talk about:What is The Power of Four?Why does reading the Bible 4+ times a week make such a difference in spiritual maturity?The importance of reading and hearing the Bible...
2024-11-2151 minThe Church LobbyEp 89: Vibrant Ministry After Retirement Age, with Lisa NorthwayRetirement isn’t what it used to be. In the U.S. military, retirement is mandatory at 62 years of age, but U.S. Army Garrison Chaplain (MAJ) Lisa A. Northway is an exception to that. Lisa, who’s currently stationed in Fort Sill, OK, has been called the “Grandma Moses” of the Army Chaplaincy. She recently received permission to extend her chaplaincy for a few more years.In this podcast, Karl Vaters talks with Lisa about how to have vibrant ministry past retirement age, includingThe value of long-term experience in today’s ministry environmentHow to pace yours...
2024-11-0750 minThe Church LobbyEp 088: The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church’s Vocation, with Allen T. StantonSmall churches aren’t a problem to fix, they’re a unique part of the body of Christ that has gifts we need to embrace.Karl Vaters talks with Allen T. Stanton about the importance of embracing what’s right about small churches, not in spite of being small, but because they’re small, in a conversation based on the content of Allen's book, The Gift of Small: Embracing Your Church’s Vocation.Some of the subjects they cover include:A new take on the “all growth is good growth” assumption, based on the fact that we li...
2024-10-2446 minThe Church LobbyEp 087: Covocational Pastoring: What It Is, And Why You Should Consider It (with Jon Sanders)Working a side hustle is no longer the exception for pastors, it’s the norm. Embracing it might answer a lot of your (and your church’s) needs.Karl Vaters talks with Jon Sanders about the rise in covocational pastoring and why it’s something more pastors, especially small-church pastors, should take seriously. Jon is the co-host of the EntrePastors Podcast and the co-founder of EntrePastors.com (with Les Hughes).The culture around us is shifting. The idea that someone entering the workplace will get a single full-time job to pay the bills is a rarity...
2024-10-1046 minThe Church LobbyEp 086: Vibrant Ministry From A Traditional Building In A Difficult City, with Tim WalkerWhy would a young church planter choose to do ministry in the poorest neighborhood of a city in crisis?Many churches are fleeing the inner cities. Grand old church buildings with deep histories sit empty. But Tim Walker and Restored Church are facing these realities head-on in Wilkes-Barre PA.Karl Vaters talks with Tim about subjects like:Their church’s Hub for Movement strategyTheir decision to do ministry in the poorest part of townMinistry in a deeply post-Christian contextHonoring history, while moving into the future from a legacy church buildingTheir plan to plant a microchur...
2024-09-261h 00The Church LobbyEp 085: The Necessity of Being Offended by Jesus, with Chase ReplogleKarl Vaters talks with Chase Replogle about one of the most controversial, but unavoidable topics today—living with offense without being offended. This material comes from his just-released book, A Sharp Compassion: 7 Hard Words to Heal Our Insecurities and Free Us from Offense.Karl and Chase talk about why offense is a necessary part of life, how to use it well, and deal with it properly.Subjects include:How Jesus intentionally used offensive words in strategic situations to bring about desired resultsThe importance of discipleshipHow the absence of close relationships makes us more offendableHow chur...
2024-09-1245 minThe Church LobbyEp 084: How To Do A Great Trunk-or-Treat At Your Church, with Darrell StetlerIn September and October over 1.2 million people will search online for “Trunk-or-Treat near me.” Here’s how to be one of the churches they find.Karl Vaters talks with Darrell Stetler about practical steps to help churches of any size put on a high-quality, gospel-centered Trunk-or-Treat event. Darrell is a small-church pastor in Oklahoma City and he has created a free 23-page guide called Trunk-orTreat Planning for Churches: A Step-by-step Guide.Karl and Darrell talk about:The benefits of having a church Trunk-or-TreatPicking a themeWho it’s designed to reachWhen to start planningRecruiting volunteersHow to gather...
2024-08-2947 minThe Church LobbyEp 083: Flyover Church: Jesus' Ministry in Rural Places, with Brad RothKarl Vaters talks with Brad Roth about the content from his new book, Flyover Church: How Jesus’ Ministry in Rural Places Is Good News Everywhere, for which Karl wrote the foreword.Topics include:How the rural church is different from the city and suburban church, not just in scale, but in typeHow metrics are very different in the rural churchThe lure of strategyThe radically different pace of rural ministryAnd moreBrad is also the author of The Hunger Inside: How the Meal Jesus Gave Transforms Lives, and God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of...
2024-08-1545 minThe Church LobbyEp 082: Pastoring Difficult People, with Craig T. OwensSometimes pastors are our own worst enemy, so we need to recognize that God chose us for this work.There’s probably not a single pastor (at least not a long-term pastor) who can’t relate to the title of Craig T Owens’ latest book, When Sheep Bite: Help for Shepherd Leaders Who May Have Felt the Painful Bites.In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Craig about what those bites mean, where they come from and what to do about them. Then they spend the bulk of the episode covering the chapters that make up the m...
2024-08-0155 minThe Church LobbyShould Your Church Consider the Microchurch Model?, with Frank WoodenKarl Vaters talks with Frank Wooden about Microchurches. Frank has been a church planter for decades, but is now concentrating on the Microchurch model as a valid, healthy alternative in a changing cultural landscape.Karl and Frank talk about:What Microchurch isWhy it’s so appealing right nowSome cautions to be aware ofThree reasons the Microchurch model can work for a church of any sizeHow the Microchurch model might be the answer for many churches in crisisAnd more Links:KC UndergroundTampa UndergroundThe Discovery Bible Study MethodClayton Christensenfwooden@socalnetwork.org...
2024-07-1849 minThe Church LobbyPractical Ideas that Work In Small Churches, with Laurie AckerKarl Vaters talks with Laurie Acker about the changing face of small church ministry, especially as it relates to recruiting, training, and relying on the volunteers who are so essential in helping small churches survive and thrive in a changing world.Laurie runs SmallChurchMinistry.com, an online ministry that provides resources and support for volunteers and ministry leaders in smaller churches. Ministries like this are so important because they help provide practical help for the volunteers who do small-church ministry without any prior training.Links from this episode:Website: https://smallchurchministry.com/Instagram: https://www.inst...
2024-07-0433 minThe Church LobbyChurch Collaboration and Killing Consumerism in a Post-Christian Context, with Dan NicholsPastoring in a post-Christian context is different. The more counter-cultural our faith becomes, the more important it is to understand that Christian consumerism is deadly and church cooperation is essential.Karl Vaters talks with Dan Nichols about these subjects, including:Negotiating a cultural shift in a longstanding churchPartnering with other churchesBridging the big/small church divideAnd moreDan Nichols is the pastor of Grace Christian Fellowship in Cortland NY, and the founder of Northeast Collaborative.Links:Northeast CollaborativeThe Bible ProjectGotQuestions.orgBless AppSoulariumSean McDowell YouTubeConstable's NotesEverandBonus ContentKa...
2024-06-2049 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing The Church (pt 9): The Danger of Idolizing Outcomes, with Mike RubinoKarl Vaters talks with Mike Rubino about his First Reaction to the first chapter of De-sizing the Church, The Danger of Idolizing Outcomes.Karl and Mike look at:The difference between a church that is trending or transformingThe biggest mistakes churches make regarding metricsWhy “idolatry” is not too strong a term for how many churches and pastors approach size, growth, and outcomesAnd more.When we’re obsessed with doing something that Jesus never told us to do we’re always in danger of it becoming an idol. And the weight of that is more than we c...
2024-05-3019 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing the Church (pt 6): Reframing Ministry Success to Reach the Misfits and the Marginalized, with Dave GibbonsWhat happens when a pastor sets out, not to minister to people who look like him, but to purposely reach people who look as different from his current congregation as possible?That’s what Dave Gibbons, the founding pastor of Newsong Church in Orange County, CA did. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with him about the planting of Newsong, the challenges Dave faced when he decided to guide them to look more like the diverse county they were ministering in.Dave talks honestly and vulnerably about how the Holy Spirit challenged him to reach ou...
2024-05-1138 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing the Church (pt 5): Forming a Goodness Culture In the Local Church, with Scot McKnightMeritocracy has become embedded in the American church. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about why this is dangerous, how to notice the warning signs of a toxic church culture, the problems with being or following a narcissistic leader, and more.Scot McKnight is the co-author (with Laura Barringer) of A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing.Karl's new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next is now available wherever you buy books, either...
2024-05-0239 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing the Church (pt 4): Unintended Consequences of the Church Growth Movement, with Bob SmietanaKarl Vaters interviews Bob Smietana, a columnist for Religion News Service, and the author of Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters.Bob and Karl discuss some of unintended consequences of the Church Growth Movement from Bob's unique vantage point. They also delve into the dangers of bigness and what we can do about it.Then they discuss Smietana’s fascinating article, “There’s a Reason Every Hit Worship Song Sounds the Same,” and what it says about the current church culture.LinksReorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the A...
2024-04-2544 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing the Church (pt 3): What Eugene Peterson Is Still Teaching Us About Pastoral Ministry, with Winn CollierIf small church pastors have a modern patron saint, Eugene Peterson might be it.In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Peterson’s biographer, Winn Collier about the places where Winn’s book, A Burning in My Bones: The Authorized Biography of Eugene H. Peterson, Translator of The Message, overlaps with Karl's book, De-sizing the Church.They talk about how Winn was entrusted to write Peterson’s authorized bio, why people (especially pastors) are still so fascinated by Peterson’s writings, his life, and the way he pastored. Then they narrow in on how Peterson accuratel...
2024-04-1838 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing the Church (pt 2): Why Christian Celebrity Culture Guarantees Moral Failure, with Katelyn BeatyOne of the biggest dangers of our obsession with church size is the rise of the Christian celebrity culture. Katelyn Beaty is the author of Celebrities for Jesus: How Personas, Platforms, and Profits Are Hurting the Church.Katelyn defines celebrity as “social power without proximity.” In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Katelyn about what that means, why it’s a problem, and why we in the church are so susceptible to the lure of celebrity.There’s also great hope for those who have been led astray by Christian celebrity culture, whether you’re the one fo...
2024-04-1140 min
The Church LobbyDe-Sizing the Church (pt 1): How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, with Karl VatersWe have an unhealthy relationship with bigness in the church. Especially in the American church. And it’s killing us. The rate of church closures, departing members, and pastoral burnout is growing exponentially.This is the first episode of a series of podcasts based on Karl Vaters’ new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next. Karl talks about how we became so obsessed with bigness in the church, why it’s dangerous, and what we can do to change course.Look for upcoming De-sizing the Church episod...
2024-04-0436 minThe Church LobbyThe Small Church Worship Advantage, with Teresa StewartHave you ever felt like your church is “less than” because you don’t have a worship experience with the talented musicians you’ve seen in larger churches? According to Teresa Stewart, not only is that not needed for an excellent worship experience, but the small church actually has advantages that are not always available to our big-church friends.In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Teresa Stewart about some of those advantages, including:The Happy Birthday EffectSeeing and adjusting our aesthetic cuesStone Soup planningThe value of small-church symbolsHow to ask better questions about our worship experien...
2024-03-2149 minThe Church LobbyBrain Science, Christian Connection, and Character Development, with Michel Hendricks.Our brains are the most important, but least understood part of our body. In this episode, Karl Vaters interviews Michel Hendricks about the fascinating place where faith and brain science intersect.Michel is the co-author (with Jim Wilder) of The Other Half of Church: Christian Community, Brain Science, and Overcoming Spiritual Stagnation, which Karl listed as one of his top ten books in 2023.If a conversation about brain science sounds intimidating, it’s not. Both the book and this conversation put the cookies on a low shelf for all of us.Michel is the...
2024-02-2347 minThe Church LobbyThe Value of Pastoral Longevity (Gary Garcia interviews Karl Vaters)This is the first of two very special episodes that we’re doing in back-to-back weeks, instead of our usual bi-weekly schedule.In January 2024, Karl and Shelley Vaters were honored by their home church as they ended 31 years on the pastoral staff—25 years as lead pastor, six years as teaching pastor. This, and the next episode of The Church Lobby are taken from that Sunday service.This episode features an on-stage interview in which Gary Garcia (the current lead pastor), asks Karl about their time at Cornerstone. It’s a helpful look at the value of longevity for...
2024-02-0118 minThe Church LobbyWhy Reading Matters for Ministry, with Austin CartyPastors need to read, not just for information, but for formation.Austin Carty and Karl Vaters cover topics like:The importance of reading many types of books, not just works of theology and leadershipHow reading helps us become more mature, wise, and caringHow reading the Bible with a sense of wonder helps embed its truths into our livesHow important it is to take reading seriously, not a luxury, or as something I squeeze in around ministry, but as an essential aspect of growing in life, faith, and ministry Links from this episode:Ministry In A...
2023-12-1450 minThe Church LobbyHow Just Showing Up Can Change Everything, with Drew DyckJust showing up in people’s lives is such an important aspect of life and ministry.Karl Vaters talks with Drew Dyck about why this is so important, as outlined in Drew’s new book, Just Show Up: How Small Acts of Faithfulness Change Everything (A Guide for Exhausted Christians).Including:The value of our physical presence in pastoral ministryThe importance of quantity vs quality timeHow showing up is not the end game, it’s the onramp for healthy life and ministryLinks from this episode:Pocket AppWebsite: https://www.drewdyck.com/Fac...
2023-12-0143 minThe Church LobbyThe Power of Prayer In Church Revitalization, with Lavern E. “Bud” BrownThere are so many books about how to turn a lifeless church around. Most concentrate on the pastor’s role. But what about the role of the congregation members? In small churches, this is especially important.Karl Vaters talks with Bud Brown about how to help the congregation become agents of life and hope in a dying church through the power of prayer, from the content of the book, Lifeless to New Life: Biblical prayers to resurrect the lifeless church.The importance of praying the evangelistic prayers of the New TestamentPreparing the soil to receive a fre...
2023-11-0254 minThe Church LobbyHow to Turn Board Meetings Into God Meetings, with Dave BeckwithIn a recent survey, 80 percent of respondents said "yes" to the question, “since serving on a church board, do you feel your spiritual life has declined?” Why is this happening, and what can be done about it?In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Dave Beckwith about How to Turn Your Board Meetings Into God Meetings, includingHow our current corporate style of board meetings isn’t just unbiblical, it’s causing great harm to boards, pastors and the churches they serveHow to shift to a more biblical modelHow to choose church leaders in a more biblical w...
2023-10-1939 minThe Church LobbyYou're Pastoring More People Than You Think, with Chad BrooksWith people attending church less frequently now, you average Sunday attendance represents a smaller percent of your regulars than ever befofe. And it affects how we pastor them and what they expect of the church in ways we may not realize.Karl Vaters talks about this with Chad Brooks, a co-vocational pastor, blogger at RevChadBrooks.com, and the host of the Productive Pastor podcast, about:Why church size matters— but not in the way you think it doesHow to determine how many people you’re actually pastoring, since it’s changed a lot in the last couple...
2023-10-0538 minThe Church LobbyWhat I Learned By Taking A SabbaticalIn this solo episode, Karl Vaters shares 22 lessons he learned on his recent sabbatical that will help you if you’re considering one yourself. Including:How long it should beHow to prepare for itWhat to expect, emotionally and mentallyHow to fade in and fade out of it slowlyand more BONUS MATERIAL How We Found Great Churches On Our SabbaticalIn the supplement to this episode, Karl Vaters dives a little deeper into his experiences attending other churches on sabbatical, including:Go with a friend you trustCheck out different Christian trad...
2023-09-2131 minThe Church Lobby10 Surprising Stats That Prove Church Size Matters, with Brady ShearerKarl Vaters talks with Brady Shearer, summarizing a report about church trends and church size.Karl and Brady talk about those stats and what they mean for small church ministry, including:How stats don’t tell you a church’s story, but they can help you see things you might not otherwise pay attention toGood news about racial, age and ethnic diversity in churches over the last 20 yearsPlus, Brady uses his technical skills from his work with Pro Church Tools, to help churches navigate the biggest time of change in the last 500 years, incl...
2023-09-081h 01The Church LobbyThe Secret Power of Kindness, with Greg AtkinsonKarl Vaters talks with Greg Atkinson, the author of several books, including The Secret Power of Kindness: 10 Keys to Unlocking Your Capacity to Change the World. Greg is probably most well-known as one of the leading church experts on hospitality and First Impressions.In this conversation, Greg talks about his brave choice to end the cycle of abuse he inherited from his family and choose kindness instead. Plus, he answers several important questions, likeWhat is kindness?Why is kindness so powerful?Practical ways to become a kinder personLinks from this Episode:The...
2023-08-2453 minThe Church LobbyThe Power of Forgiveness, with Dr. Bruce & Toni HebelForgiveness may be the most desired, but among the least understood virtues found in scripture, and in life. Karl Vaters talks with Dr. Bruce & Toni Hebel, co-authors of Forgiving Forward: Unleashing the Forgiveness Revolution. In this episode we talk about The Power of Forgiveness, including a lot of ideas that may feel counterintuitive to you, so lean in and hear the biblical foundation they’re building on. It may even reframe this entire issue for you.They also provide answers to questions such as:Why is forgiveness so hard to do?What are some of t...
2023-08-0448 min
The Church LobbyUnlock Your Bible, with Dianne FinkeldeKarl Vaters interviews Dianne Finkelde, the author of several books, including Unlock Your Bible: The How-to Study Guide for Everyday Christians.Karl and Dianne talk about, not just the importance of reading the Bible, but how to read it in a way that the everyday person can understand it, appreciate it, and do what it says, including:Letting the Bible explain the BibleHearing God as he speaks to us through its pagesHow to remember what we readGoing deeper with character studies, word studies and moreLinks From This Episode:Unlock Your Bible: T...
2023-07-1532 minThe Church LobbyHow To Plan A SabbaticalIf you've never taken a sabbatical or wondered why they matter, this podcast is a great introduction to it.In this solo podcast, Karl Vaters talks about:Why sabbaticals matter for pastorsAn important lesson on time management from the life of the Apostle PaulWhy Karl is taking his sabbatical nowThe sabbatical template he will followHow to get the most out of a sabbatical Links:PastorSoul.comThe DREAM GuideBonus Chat Karl talks about the DREAM acronym he will be using on his sabbatical:Disengage from ministry and reengage...
2023-06-2323 min
The Church LobbyYouTube Strategy for Churches, with Sallie GuilloryKarl Vaters interviews Sallie Guillory, the author of YouTube Strategy for Churches: A practical guide for your church to reach more people through YouTube.Karl and Sallie talk about some extremely practical ideas to use the world’s biggest video platform and second largest search engine to help people find your content, including:How to get more mileage out of the content you’re already creatingCreating videos that answer the questions people are actually askingHow to create short videos from longer presentationsWhy simple and helpful is more important than having high production valuesAnd more...
2023-06-0948 min
The Church LobbyPost-Pandemic Trends In Small Church Ministry, with Dale SellersKarl Vaters interviews Dale Sellers of the 95 Network, which provides resources for the 95 percent of churches that are not large.In this conversation, Dale and Karl talk about some of the important issues facing small churches as we come out of the pandemic and look ahead to 5-10 years of fallout, including:The need for rest and soul care for pastorsWhy the expected wave of pastoral resignations hasn’t happenedWhat to do instead of chasing absent membersThe importance of accurately defining your congregation’s current realityLinks:95 NetworkStalled: Hope and Help for Pastors Who...
2023-05-1839 min
The Church LobbyTeam Leadership: Lessons from the Apostle Paul, with Ryan LokkesmoeKarl Vaters interviews Ryan Lokkesmoe, a church-planter and the author of a new book, Paul and His Team: What the Early Church Can Teach Us About Leadership and Influence.Karl and Ryan talk about what we can learn from the way Paul worked with his ministry team, and how those lessons translate to ministry today. Including:How Paul dealt with conflict, not seeing people as enemies to be defeated, but as people God loves and who can be redeemed just as he was redeemed.Paul’s Kingdom Diplomacy as seen in a very helpful, eye-opening walk thr...
2023-04-2049 min
The Church LobbyMinistry in Today’s Rural Church, with Brad RothKarl Vaters interviews Brad Roth, a Mennonite pastor in rural Kansas, a blogger at DoxologyProject.com, and the author of God's Country: Faith, Hope, and the Future of the Rural Church.Brad and Karl talk about four concepts from his book:The importance of Rural churchAcediaThe importance of PlaceA New Way to Measure GrowthThey also have an important conversation about replacing the typical metrics of demographics and attendance with what Brad calls “getting weird” as we assess church health and growth. Specifically, Brad raises the idea of using “rule” rather than metrics as our base...
2023-03-2348 min
The Church LobbyChurch Metrics that Really Matter, with Craig T. OwensKarl Vaters interviews Craig T. Owens, a pastor, author, co-host of the podcast “The Craig and Greg Show”, and a blogger at CraigTOwens.com.In this conversation, Karl and Craig talk about the subjects addressed in his recent book, Shepherd Leadership: The Metrics that Really Matter.Some of the important subjects include:Using biblical metrics for pastoral ministryThe tendency to lead based in confidence or humilityThe essential nature of sabbath in a life of ministryThe relationship of wisdom to shepherdingThe importance of overcoming guilt as a motivator for decisions in ministry There...
2023-03-1052 min
The Church LobbyMinistry as a Solo Pastor, with Gary L. McIntoshAn interview with Gary L. McIntosh about the principles in his new book, The Solo Pastor: Understanding and Overcoming the Challenges of Leading a Church Alone.In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Dr. McIntosh about:The relentlessness of being a solo pastorHow influence works in the solo-pastor churchWhat expectations people have of the solo pastorOur connectedness to the congregationThe great hopefulness of solo-pastoringTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
2023-02-0948 min
The Church LobbyHow Excellence Looks Different In Small Churches, with Erik ReedKarl Vaters interviews Erik Reed, a pastor in Nashville TN. This conversation is, surprisingly, based on a Twitter thread Erik wrote about how excellence in smaller churches looks different than it does in bigger churches.Karl and Erik talk aboutThe dangers of small churches trying to imitate larger churchesThe attractiveness of authenticityThe importance of investing our time and resources wiselyExamples of what small-church excellence actually looks likeInstead of pushing for the technical “wow” factor, we need to remember that people who come to a smaller church are looking for us to do the...
2023-01-2640 min
The Church LobbyPolycentric Leadership: Church as a Discipleship Movement, with Dan White Jr.Karl Vaters interviews Dan White Jr.. the coauthor (with JR Woodward) of The Church as Movement: Starting and Sustaining Missional-Incarnational Communities.They talk about why we need a complete rethinking of how we do church, from the current, popular ways of seeing it as an institution or a series of programs, to seeing it as the movement Jesus intended it to be.Specifically, Dan builds the case for a new type of leadership he calls Polycentric Leadership.To get there, Dan and Karl discuss the primary elements of:The Church as MovementThe im...
2023-01-121h 03
The Church LobbyA Discipleship Strategy Small Churches Can Actually Follow, with Darrell StetlerKarl Vaters interviews Darrell Stetler, a small-church pastor, father of seven, and creator of NewStart discipleship curriculum, written with the needs and strengths of small churches in mind.In this conversation, Darrell and Karl talk about the importance of discipleship in the life of the church – and as a central role in our calling as pastors.Some key topics include:The importance of helping people create discipleship habits, not just filling their heads with informationMaking sure to see discipleship as a whole, not broken into individualized piecesThe essential role that mentoring plays in discipleship – espe...
2022-12-0651 min
The Church LobbySeculosity: Ministry In The Era Of Secular Religion, with David ZahlKarl Vaters interviews David Zahl, author of Seculosity: How Career, Parenting, Technology, Food, Politics, and Romance Became Our New Religion and What to Do about It.In this episode, Karl and David have a wide-ranging conversation about how the religious landscape has changed in our culture, but not in the ways you may have thought. According to David, we haven’t become less religious, but the objects of our worship and the rituals and rules around that worship have changed from vertical to horizontal.If you are a church leader, this episode will help you get...
2022-11-1458 min
The Church LobbyWhy Proximity and Longevity Matter in Pastoral Ministry, with Alan BriggsKarl Vaters interviews Alan Briggs, a pastor, the author of Staying is the New Going, the host of the Right Side Up Leadership podcast and StayForth.com. Karl and Alan talk about why geography matters in church leadership. Especially in an increasingly-mobile and increasingly-electronic world, staying planted where God put you is more important than ever for effective, incarnational ministry. Staying in a church long-term may have its challenges, but they are far outweighed by their advantages – for the church, the pastors, the pastor’s family, and the community they’re called to serve.Some i...
2022-10-2145 min
The Church LobbyShould You Start a Podcast? And Positive Ministry Trends, with Aron UtechtKarl Vaters interviews Aron Utecht, a pastor and the host of the Good Ideas for Churches podcast. Karl and Aron talk about some of the positive trends he’s been seeing in the church and among pastors, including a refocusing on mission rather than an obsession with methods.They also talk about the value of podcasting for pastors and churches, including what question we must answer before we’re ready to ask “should I start a podcast?”Hint: sometimes the answer is “no”. In a lot of situations the best use of our limited time and energy may...
2022-10-0347 min
The Church LobbyTechnology, Ministry, and Keeping People's Attention, with Rick HiemstraKarl Vaters interviews Rick Hiemstra, a former small church pastor, now serving as the Director of Research at the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.Rick and Karl talk about a wide variety of subjects, including the Church Growth Movement, technology and how it has affected the way we approach pastoring.Some helpful insights include:What has people’s attention is what shapes them, and technology has radically altered what has our attentionHow technology has shaped people’s expectation of what to expect from their church and their pastorHow technology subconsciously changed pastors from shepherds to cont...
2022-09-1946 min
The Church LobbyLeveraging the Strengths of Your Small Church, with Ron KlassenKarl Vaters interviews Ron Klassen of the Rural Home Missionary Association (RHMA) about seeing the unique nature of the small church, not as a problem to be solved, but as a strength to leverage, and even to exploit. Here are a few highlights:Small churches have unique ministry gifts that shouldn’t be seen as problems to fix, but as positives to exploit.The relational aspect of small churches is something we need to lean into, not shy away from. It will even make you come across as a better preacher!A lot of small church ministry happens of...
2022-09-0550 min
The Church LobbyTeaching the Bible In Your Context, with Matt WhitmanKarl Vaters interviews Matt Whitman, host of the Ten Minute Bible Hour podcast and YouTube channel.Karl and Matt talk about the intersection of Bible teaching/preaching and pastoral care. This conversation also covers The importance of our online presenceHow to avoid the temptation of living by clicksTaking care not to get stuck wandering down political and theological rabbit trailsWhy teaching about the Bible is as important as teaching from the BibleLinks:The Ten Minute Bible Hour YouTubethetmbh.comMatt Whitman TwitterNo Dumb Questions PodcastDwellGetting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving InHow To T...
2022-08-1556 min
The Church LobbyHow To Find The Right Pastor/Church Fit, with Matt SteenKarl Vaters interviews Matt Steen, a former pastor and church planter, now with Chemistry Staffing, a ministry that helps churches find great staff members (and helps staff members find great churches).The episode is filled with practical advice, includingWhat’s changed in pastoral transition/placement over the last generationHow the pandemic has accelerated pastoral transitionsThe five key principles to look for when looking for a new pastor or churchOf special help will be how Matt describes the difference between “close-fisted” and “open-handed” theological issues, as well as the importance of giving churches time to ge...
2022-08-0853 min
The Church LobbyHow Fixing the World Is Killing the Church, with Dr John C. NugentKarl Vaters interviews John C. Nugent about this subject, which is at the root of some of the biggest challenges pastors are facing today.Dr. Nugent is the author of several books including Endangered Gospel: How Fixing the World Is Killing the Church. He is a professor of Old Testament studies at Great Lakes Christian College, and co-host of the After Class Podcast.John’s approach helps us understand where common misunderstandings about these issues come from so we can address them lovingly and biblically. He also frames these issues according to the entire story-arc of...
2022-07-2551 min
The Church LobbyWhen “Can’t Miss” Church Growth Answers Don't Work, with Cory HartmanKarl Vaters interviews Cory Hartman, co-author of Future Church: Seven Laws of Real Church Growth about what happened when church growth answers didn't work for him or the church he served.His background and experiences will sound familiar to most small church leaders. And this conversation will be very encouraging.In this conversation, Cory and Karl talk about How Cory, a “failed” small church pastor became the co-author of a book about church growth (including an update of what "failure" really means)The essential distinction between what he calls Upper Room and Lower Room churc...
2022-07-1157 min
The Church LobbyEnding Human Trafficking, with Dr. Sandra MorganKarl Vaters interviews Dr. Sandie Morgan, co-author of the new book, Ending Human Trafficking.In this episode we talk about how healthy churches are uniquely positioned to help prevent human trafficking, including:What signs to look for in people who may be vulnerableHow to partner with other agencies and law enforcementHow to set proper policiesWhy we need to pay more attention to labor trafficking, not just sex traffickingHow to find resources in our neighborhoodAnd so much more, including a take on the biblical story of Elisha and the widow (2 Kings 4) that any pastor c...
2022-06-2058 min
The Church LobbyThe Unexpected Origins of the Church Growth Movement, with Dr. Gary McIntoshKarl Vaters interviews Dr. Gary McIntosh about Donald McGavran's role as the pioneer of the church growth movement.But don’t let the term "church growth movement" stop you from listening. Dr. McIntosh tells us that the origins of church growth are far different than what most of us have been taught recently.Some of the misunderstandings he clears up include:That it came from the heart of a missionary, not a pastorThat it was about being cross-cultural, not omni-culturalThat it was focused as much or more on the impact of smaller congregations than the...
2022-06-0649 min
The Church LobbyA Christian's Guide To The Gender Revolution, with Dr. Vince GilKarl Vaters interviews Dr. Vincent E. Gil, the author of A Christian's Guide Through the Gender Revolution: Gender, Cisgender, Transgender, and Intersex (Cascade Publishing, 2021.) .Dr. Gil taught human sexuality and counseled at a conservative Christian college for 38 years. He has been a consultant on sexual issues for church leaders and denominations, and is himself a licensed minister.This is a sensitive subject that often causes division, or gets ignored due to some of the complexity and concerns. In this conversation, Karl and Dr. Gil talk about how to understand the current “gender moment,” and negotiate a bett...
2022-01-261h 06
The Church LobbyHelping Men Become More Intentional Dads, with Jeff HamiltonKarl Vaters and Jeff Hamilton (founder of Dad Academy) talk about the importance of helping men become the dad they want to be by becoming at least as intentional in their parenting as they are in their job.Topics include:Why “Dadding” is so important and so challengingThe importance of having an intentional planThe impact of building a positive culture in your home by creating a more Christ-like value systemLinks:Dadacademy.infoJeff@dadacademy.infoWherebySwitcher StudioInstagram: Dad AcademyFacebook: Dad AcademyTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Finan...
2022-01-1259 min
The Church LobbyBonus: Introducing the Bible-Reading Coach PodcastThe Bible-Reading Coach is a guide to help anyone read through the entire Bible in 52 weeks.It all starts with a weekly podcast, available in both audio and video formats, hosted by pastor and author Karl Vaters, it’s designed to help beginners and longtime Bible readers get more out of your journey through God’s Word by making your reading journey Simple, Understandable, and Rewarding.SIMPLE: A weekly introduction to readings from Genesis to Revelation that helps you know what to look for as you read.UNDERSTANDABLE: Helps you see how this ancient wisdom applies to the...
2021-12-2316 min
The Church LobbyChurch Planting For Everyone, with Peyton JonesKarl Vaters interviews Peyton Jones, a church planter and church planting specialist. He’s written several books, most recently, Church Plantology: The Art and Science of Planting Churches, which is the basis for this conversation.Peyton and Karl talk about a lot of issues regarding church planting, but mostly about how most of our common perceptions of church planting are built on a faulty foundation. Not a church planter? Don’t let that stop you from listening. There’s a lot in this for every church leader.Links from this episode:Church Plantology: The Art...
2021-12-1546 min
The Church LobbyOnline and In-Person Worship, with Jason MooreAn interview with Jason Moore about how to blend online & in-person worship.Jason is the founder of the Both/And seminars which helps churches of all sizes create a better worship experience for both the online audience and the in-person congregation.In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks to Jason about how a church of any size can use online and in-person church to make each a better experience for worshipers. If you’re having a hard time with your online experience, or even if you’re doubtful about its value listen to Jason’s heart, his ex...
2021-12-0150 min
The Church LobbyCurrent Issues in Church Law & Tax, with Matt BranaughKarl Vaters interviews Matt Branaugh about the important subjects of law, tax and finances in the church. Matt is an Attorney at Law and Content Editor for Church Law & Tax.In this conversation, Karl and Matt talk about some of the biggest recent issues in these important areas – you know, the things we hate to deal with, but need to take care of. Thankfully, Matt knows how to talk about them in compelling, clear and applicable ways.This conversation will help you know that you and your church are not alone if you’re faci...
2021-11-1751 min
The Church LobbyThe Small Church In God's Mission, with Bob Roberts Jr.Karl Vaters interviews Bob Roberts Jr., a pastor, author, global strategist and more. Bob has a heart for Jesus, for the Gospel, for all kinds of people, and for the role of the small congregation in fulfilling God’s mission. Karl and Bob have a free-wheeling conversation that touches on many subjects, all of which can help every church and every church leader.Links from this episode:My Promised Land by Ari ShavitArt and Faith: A Theology of Making by Makoto FujimuraGlocal.netMul...
2021-11-0356 min
The Church LobbyPastoral Longevity and Ministry Partnership, with Gary GarciaKarl Vaters and Gary Garcia have worked together at the same church for 29 years. For the first 25 years Karl was the lead pastor. For the last 4 years Gary has been the lead pastor.This is the first of two episodes with them. In the next one they will talk about everything surrounding the pastoral transition, but in this episode they talk aboutHow to stay in ministry long-termHow to stay fresh while in the same churchHow to work together wellAdvice for those wanting to stay strong in ministry for the long haulTo...
2021-10-1341 min
The Church LobbyInterim Pastors, with Tom HarrisKarl Vaters interviews Tom Harris about the important, but underserved topic of Intentional Interim Pastorates. Tom is the co-author of Soaring Between Pastors: 8 Actions to Thrive During a Pastoral Transition. He also serves as the president of IPM: Interim Pastor Ministries.In this conversation, Tom and Karl talk about the importance of interim pastorates, including how an intentional interim can help prepare a church to hit the ground running when they call a new pastor. Links from this episode:InterimPastors.comSoaring Between Pastors To get Bonus Co...
2021-10-0647 min
The Church LobbyLong Term Pastorates, with Rich BrownKarl Vaters interviews Rich Brown on the importance of long-term pastorates.Rich is the author of Extended Stays: A Closer Look at Longer Pastorates. He has served for decades as a pastor and in Christian higher education. Currently he serves with IPM (Interim Pastor Ministries).In this conversation, Karl and Rich talk about why long-term pastorates are good for the church, the pastor, the pastor’s family, and for the community we're called to reach.Including:Some shocking stats about pastoral tenureWhy a series of short-term stays can be problematicHow to make a lo...
2021-09-2941 min
The Church LobbySmall Churches In Denominational Leadership, with Matt HensleeKarl Vaters interviews Matt Henslee about the importance of having small church representation in denominational leadership.In addition to being a small church pastor and authoring/co-authoring several books, Matt has recently been appointed to leadership in his denomination (the Southern Baptist Conference) on both a regional and national level.Karl and Matt talk about how this came happened and how important it is for all church groups, including denominations, to make a place for small church pastors in leadership. Links from this Episode:Jonah Over CoffeeReplanting Rural C...
2021-09-1531 min
The Church LobbyFirst Impressions, with Greg AtkinsonGreg Atkinson is one the world’s leading voices in First Impressions for churches. He also wrote "Secrets of a Secret Shopper: Reaching and Keeping Church Guests" as a guide for small churches.In this conversation, Karl Vaters interviews Greg aboutOnline presenceHow everyone in a small church is on the First Impressions "team”Why small churches may need to work harder on First Impressions than our big church friendsA few tips for small churches to increase their first impression with little or no moneyTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to beco...
2021-07-2947 min
The Church LobbyRecovering & Thriving In the Post-Pandemic Church pt. 2There’s a lot of talk lately about what it will take to recover from what we've all been through over the past two years. And understandably so. It will take years for us to get a grip on what has happened, what’s still happening and how it’s still changing everything.In this two-part series, Karl Vaters shares several lessons about responding, recovering and thriving through a challenging season. This information comes from hundreds of conversations he’s had with small church pastors, denominational leaders and others over the last 18+ months.In this episode...
2021-07-2129 min
The Church LobbyRecovering & Thriving In the Post-Pandemic Church (Pt. 1)There’s a lot of talk lately about what it will take to recover from what we've all been through over the past two years. And understandably so. It will take years for us to get a grip on what has happened, what’s still happening and how it’s still changing everything. In this two-part series, Karl Vaters shares several lessons about responding, recovering and thriving through a challenging season. This information comes from hundreds of conversations he’s had with small church pastors, denominational leaders and others over the last 18+ months. In this e...
2021-07-1532 min
The Church LobbyVideo Ministry Using Devices You Already Own, with Craig Forrest
An interview with Craig Forrest, who’s spent decades shooting and editing film and video for ministries and network TV.Craig is passionate about helping people communicate the message of Jesus in a compelling way. In this interview, Karl Vaters talks with him about video ideas and tips that can be used in any size of church on a limited/nonexistent budget.CraigForrest.com (https://www.craigforrest.com/)MatchstickMedia.org (https://www.matchstickmedia.org/)Six Ways to Sunday podcast (https://soundcloud.com/craig-d-forrest-813372280)For a Transcript of...
2021-07-0737 min
The Church LobbyCan a Pastor Change the Culture of a Small Church?A church’s culture is defined as “the unwritten set of rules that governs everything a church does.” In a big church, the pastor and staff set the culture, but in a small church the culture is set by the long-time regular members and attenders - even if they don't know they’re doing it.In this episode, Karl Vaters walks through the three steps that a small church pastor must use to lead the culture. Show them you understand the cultureShow them what you appreciate about the cultureThen you will get limited permission to participate with them...
2021-06-1627 min
The Church LobbyMaking a Positive Impact on Social Media, w/ Doug BurschKarl Vaters interviews Doug Bursch about his new book, Posting Peace. It's all about how social media is impacting us so much that it even changes how we see ourselves and relate to each other.But Doug also offers hope for how we can be peacemakers and reconcilers in our online behavior.As the first interview of this podcast, Karl introduces the Lightning Round questions, with questions and answers that are both profound and a little bit of fun.Buy Posting Peace (https://www.ivpress.com/posting-peace)To get Bonus Content...
2021-06-071h 01
The Church LobbyCan A Small Church Be An Effective Church?Yes, small churches can be strong, healthy and effective. In this opening episode, Karl Vaters looks at the three main issues that must be in place in order for that to happen.1. Realize you can be effective2. Discover how small churches function differently from big churches3. Understand and use the unique DNA of your small church for God’s gloryTo get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
2021-06-0740 min
The Church LobbyIntroducing Can This Work in a Small ChurchWhy would someone create a podcast called "Can This Work In A Small Church?" Because small churches are different.A lot of what we learn from our big church friends needs to be tweaked for the small church environment. And sometimes they need to be done completely differently.In this episode, Karl Vaters introduces you to what this podcast is about, and what's coming up.To get Bonus Content every week, click here to become a Financial Partner, or here to subscribe to the Free Weekly Newsletter.
2021-05-2104 min