Shows
FINE is a 4-Letter WordNice is Not Kind with Allie JonesGrowing up in Iowa, Allie Jones was immersed in a culture of “Iowa nice,” a brand of politeness defined by being helpful, agreeable, and perpetually pleasant. So not surprisingly, niceness became a core value for Allie, one that was reinforced by her community, but also complicated by its shadow: the tendency to avoid hard conversations and uncomfortable truths in favor of small talk and surface-level connections.Early in her career as a third-grade teacher, she poured herself into her students, striving to live up to the expectations of hard work and service. But as she recounts, supportive word...
2026-01-2943 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordConfidence Isn't an Amazon Delivery with Meshell BakerRaised with strong faith values across multiple religious traditions, Meshell Baker discovered early on that the best people she encountered weren't defined by their specific beliefs, but by how consistently they practiced core principles of love, kindness, and service. In the beginning of her career, Meshell was exposed to diverse spiritual communities while selling Yellow Pages advertising in the most racially diverse county in America. Her experience would later become the foundation for everything she built. After a period of incarceration that stemmed from personal trauma and lost confidence, Meshell threw herself into rebuilding through corporate success. S...
2025-12-0442 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWine Is Not a Lifestyle Thanksgiving SoloHoliday solo episode today. On what might be a controversial topic, but what the hell. LFG! It’s no secret that this girl loves shopping. I inherited this love from my grandmothers. The small state I grew up in has at least 12 major shopping malls. It’s a challenge right now to not get sucked into all the Black Friday sales. Although my favorite protein powder is 30% off and I can’t guarantee some new leggings won’t end up in my shopping cart. All this to say it’s no surprise that when my two bestie...
2025-11-2714 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Weight He Finally Put Down with Christopher ByloneChristopher Bylone grew up on a New Jersey family farm where no one was above mucking stalls, and lending a hand wasn’t optional. His grandfather, decades ahead of his time, taught him that inclusion wasn’t a corporate policy; it was just what decent people did.Those lessons stuck. They carried Christopher from agriculture to analytics to becoming a respected voice in diversity, equity, and inclusion. When his company’s diversity metrics stalled, he spoke up, “We have no strategy.” That bold truth redirected his entire career toward DEI leadership. He went on to build a team from...
2025-11-2042 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Bully in the Mirror with Massimo BackusFine is a 4-Letter Word is all about those moments when “fine” is just the mask we wear before life gives us a loud wake-up call.For Massimo Backus, that wake-up call came wrapped in a leadership 360 evaluation that painted a picture he didn’t recognize. The team he thought he was inspiring and supporting saw someone defensive, unsafe to approach, even a bully. Gut punch, right?Raised by creative, supportive parents who met in a woodworking class over a three-legged chair, Massimo learned the values of creativity, acceptance, and generosity that would later guide his un...
2025-11-0643 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWhen Silence Speaks Louder Than Words with Karen BrownHey high achiever, what if the only way to save your life… was to finally stop doing all the things and learn how to be?In this powerful and deeply honest episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, we sit down with Karen Brown, a global leader, poet, and mentor who has lived and worked in nearly 90 countries—and once wore her “busyness” like a badge of honor. I know you can relate to that. Raised in Jamaica on the values of personal identity, learning, and service, Karen built her life around helping others. But when dec...
2025-10-0951 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordValuing Yourself Equally with Others In Friendships: A Special Episode With LoriBy the time you see this episode, I’ll be in Tanzania, petting lions and riding zebras.(Ok, I KNOW, that’s not likely to happen, but I wish it could!)This week marks a lot of milestones.It’s the one-year anniversary of my father’s passing, and part of my reason for visiting Tanzania is to honor his memory and express gratitude for making sure he left behind the funding I’d need for the trip.It’s also the 200th episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word – and as I was doing...
2025-08-2112 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordFighting A Bear In The Cave with Eddie SandIf the self-help industry was actually effective, the world would be full of people in perfect health with boundless wealth, always succeeding at everything they set out to do. They'd have perfect relationships, be surrounded by nothing but love and harmony, and know the definition of paradise!The first time things seem a little off, you'd just buy one book, read it, and voila! You'd never need another book because the stars would align like some freaking celestial rapture put at your service personally. Alas, that's not the case.Eddie Sand started reading one of...
2025-06-1952 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordShow Up, Smile, And Support with Kevin SchniedersSome people are just born with it. Whether it’s the intelligence you need to thrive, personality traits that make you likable – or your dad owning the company you grow up to become “Chief Servant Leader” of – we all have something going for us.Throughout the 192 (and counting) episodes of Fine Is a 4-Letter Word, I’ve covered stories of pain, struggle, perseverance, and salvation. One of my guests even went to prison for a murder she did not commit!Kevin Schnieders is one of those guys who, when you first meet him, strikes you...
2025-06-1250 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordKnow Who's In Your Entourage with Margaret RogersTime and again, as you go through nearly 200 episodes of Fine Is a 4-Letter Word, you'll find stories from guests who found themselves disconnected from what's supposed to be a connected world.Your circle of close friends you see all the time - your "besties"? Go back two years and tell me how many of them are the same people.Your avid following on social media who hang on your every post? Delete your account and I bet maybe two of them even try to reach out somewhere else.Sometimes being disconnected is...
2025-06-0545 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWhen Closure Is Actually A New Opening with Jill ValdezHave you been moving through life feeling like there’s something else out there?You can’t put your finger on it. Even though nothing outwardly seems off, there’s more to the story than you’ve been told or that you can see. Something’s not adding up, but how do you make 2+2=4?For Jill Valdez, this crept up on her in a hundred small ways. Although she went through some experiences that were far less traumatic for her than they are for others – there was always something else behind door #1.Born to an 18-yea...
2025-05-2246 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordChange Is Great (When It Happens To Others) with Suzanne HopsonWhat if… one of your core values that should be empowering turned out to be something that held you back?It’s meant to build confidence to try things. But it becomes a sort of low-key vicious cycle that subconsciously holds you back and curbs your ability to change.That silent boomerang would be ironic for a professional change agent, but that same boomerang has been both catalyst and inhibitor of Suzanne Hopson’s story.Growing up, Suzanne was taught, to quote her exact words as she said them in the conversation you’re about...
2025-05-1544 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordIt's My World with Heather WyattSo, you think you have it all.A great career, a nice apartment, an 800 credit score. You're officially a grown-up with the adult job. The world looks at you and says, "wow, everything's going your way". It seems like everything's fine. What else could you ask for?But it's not fine. You look around and know something's missing. Maybe you mutter some four-letter words - "fine" is a 4-letter word, after all.Something's telling you there's a lot more out there. Maybe your grown-up life is stopping you from actually growing into the...
2025-05-0842 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Beatles Changed My Life with Flip BrownHave you ever found yourself spending a crazy amount of time and energy trying to figure out why things happen in life? Wondering what you did to attract it? Desperately seeking answers right now, and coming up frustrated when you can't make sense of it.But what if the whole plan is like a puzzle that doesn't form a picture until you've been given most of the pieces and taken the time to make them fit? You'll look back one day and see how it all comes together.You could say Flip Brown has gone...
2025-05-0147 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordPermission to Pause - Why Rest Isn’t Weak: A Special Episode with LoriWe’ve been conditioned to believe that rest is optional—like guacamole on your burrito. You can have it, but you’ll have to pay extra.Let’s zoom out for a second and look at where this belief came from.The hustle mindset didn’t just show up one day because Gary Vee started yelling about it. It’s deeply rooted in industrial-age values—when your productivity on the factory line was literally tied to your worth and your wages. The more you produced, the more valuable you were. Full stop.Then came th...
2025-04-1027 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordEverybody Has A Story with Steve FalesIn his 2023 report "Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation", the US Surgeon General at the time, Dr. Vivek Murthy, declared loneliness and social isolation a public health epidemic.Aside from feelings of ennui and lacking support structure, loneliness can trigger or increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, dementia, stroke, depression, anxiety, and even premature death!So, while he doesn’t quite come out and say it, and he might not have been thinking exactly along those terms when I spoke with him, Steve Fales might have had a brush with death.Steve grew up...
2025-04-0345 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordSilence The Imposter with Gary FreyPerfectionism is something that gets beat into a lot of us. Sometimes literally, as you’ll find out from my guest.Imposter syndrome goes hand-in-hand with perfectionism. You see, when you’re programmed to hold yourself to extremely high standards, nothing you do seems like it’s good enough. You’re not enough. And what if someone finds out?Now imagine you got ripped off by not one – but two – business partners, and lost all your savings more than once. On top of that, you never graduated college, yet held down job after job that req...
2025-03-2752 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWho's On Your Board of Directors? with Suresh BhagchandaniDo you sometimes feel like you’re mailing it in?Sure, you’re achieving your goals, hitting your numbers, and getting boxes checked on your to-do list. On paper, you’re a success.But it still feels empty, like something’s missing and you’re not really succeeding.How do you know for sure? Who’s there to help you figure it out? And what example are you setting for those who see you as a role model, even if you don’t know they look up to you?These are questions Sure...
2025-03-2046 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word36 Years in Prison for a Crime She Didn’t Commit with Judy HendersonBattered Woman Syndrome is a commonly misunderstood condition that results from domestic or intimate partner violence.Maybe you’ve known someone in such a situation. Or you’ve at least heard stories about it. And you’ve probably thought, Why do you stay there and take it? Why don’t you leave? There are support networks and shelters who can take you in, why not just go?And wondered, What drives you to try to “fix” the situation and have understanding for your abuser? Why do you act like you owe them a f**king thing?
2025-03-131h 06
FINE is a 4-Letter WordHell In The Hallway with Kristy BusijaDoes it sometimes feel like no good deed goes unpunished?What if I told you that no scandal, setback, or stumbling block goes unrewarded, if you’re willing to take the time to solve the puzzle?As a puzzle-solver programmed to challenge the status quo, ask questions, and lean into her natural curiosity, Kristy Busija (BYOO-SEE-YA) learned both of these lessons when she got fired for doing the right thing.Growing up, Kristy’s parents instilled classic values – have a good work ethic, act with integrity, abide by the Golden Rule, and catch more f...
2025-03-0641 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWhat’s the Price of Doing the Right Thing with Idy MarcusSituations involving stalking can be a gray area.Does the person mean well but are just awkward in their approach? Are you reading too much into it? Let’s not jump to conclusions and end up smearing an innocent person. We should give the benefit of a doubt until we have our facts straight.All of these are very natural impulses, rooted in solid values that generally speaking serve us well. And they could have cost Idy Marcus dearly.Idy was raised in a very loving home by parents who married and started th...
2025-02-2757 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordLove Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It: A Special Episode with LoriTomorrow, February 14th, is Valentine’s Day.For some, it’s a joyous celebration of our connection with our spouse, companion, partner, and loved one.For others, it raises questions about why we need a holiday to mark something that’s central to our life and our True North.And there are those for whom it’s a source of grief or pain for various reasons – lack of a life partner, hurt over losing a life partner, or disillusionment over not having found a life partner.But you know what we don’t talk...
2025-02-1320 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordYou’re Not A Tree - You Can Move Anytime with Tabatha JonesAlways finish what you start.Don’t give up a good thing; you’re good at it and make a lot of money at it.The voice in your head is always right.All this sounds like good advice, yes?But what if one day you found out you had been slowly dying of this advice? I mean, literally, your health was deteriorating and you were wasting away?Tabatha Jones had an intuition for years that something was wrong, based on the challenges she started to face getting out of b...
2025-02-0645 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordYou Don’t Need A Permission Slip to Be Yourself with Shari BegunIn our society, we don’t know how to talk about a lot of super important things. We don’t learn, because we’re not taught. And that’s due to longstanding beliefs that we’re supposed to handle things a certain way.Think about what happens if your spouse or life partner dies. You’re expected to have a period of enforced mourning. You look weird at best, or heartless at worst, if you keep going to work rather than take bereavement leave. Heaven forbid you take a vacation or something. They say it’s supposed to be funerals...
2025-01-3045 min
THE BOLT PodcastThe Power of Gratitude and Connection: Building Stronger Entrepreneurs and Corporate Cultures with Lori SaitzWhat if the smallest changes in your life could lead to the most significant transformations? Our special guest, Lori Saitz, shares her inspiring journey from being a shy child to becoming a pioneering leader in internal corporate podcasts. Uncover the power of small steps and the courage to break free from perfectionism as Lori recounts her pivotal college experience that set her on a path of self-assuredness and leadership. Lori's insights on gratitude as a tool for fostering positivity and development are particularly poignant, illustrating how cultivating a positive mindset can transform challenges into opportunities for growth....
2025-01-2855 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordI Gave The Reaper The Finger 6 Times with Keith McNallyBefore we begin, let me alert you that the content of this episode includes conversation about mental health struggles and suicide, which can be distressing for some people. Don’t worry, we don’t go into too much detail, but if you are uncomfortable about that kind of thing, you may want to avoid this episode. Imagine it’s 3:00 AM, and your life is coming apart at the seams.You don’t know how you can keep going, and maybe you’re not sure you want to. Even if you believe this will pass if only you c...
2025-01-2356 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordLessons From My Grandfathers with Frank Favaro“Life is short” is one of those cliches that gets thrown around with the idea that you should let things roll off your shoulders or not spend time analyzing the past.The truth is, though, that life is longer than you realize because...A person lives on in the memories of those who knew them, are familiar with their stories, and share these stories so that other people may know them too.Frank Favaro’s grandfathers both died in 2004 when Frank was 27, but they are very much alive for him due not only to the...
2025-01-1644 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordFear Is A 4-Letter Word, Too with Katie Carty TierneyIn the written description of my podcast, Fine Is a 4-Letter Word, I begin by asking:“Wasn’t it just a couple years ago you were sitting on the beach at spring break in Ft. Lauderdale – listening to the Pet Shop Boys, U2, and Def Leppard - with your entire life ahead of you? Now you’re looking back 30-plus years and wondering what the hell happened.”Basically, I’ve just described what used to be called the mid-life crisis. I started the show shortly after I’d embarked on some major mid-stream changes and was hearing si...
2025-01-0941 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordSlamming My Hand In The Door Changed My Life with Susan Jackson LeeRemember that time you slammed your hand in the door? I heard you screaming obscenities for days. And depending on how it happened, it might have stung for a minute or caused you pain for a week.But imagine your hand didn’t heal. Instead, it revealed you were slowly being ambushed by a silent killer. Act One to a new story you never saw coming.This is Susan Jackson Lee’s story, and it ends on a cliffhanger.Susan grew up in a military family as the only daughter in a family full...
2025-01-0243 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordGoodbye 2024. Here’s To a Transformational 2025: A Special Episode with Lori2024 has been quite a year.I spent most of the year as a nomad, traveling throughout the Southeast United States moving from town to town, housesitting for a lot of awesome cats (and a few awesome dogs). It was an amazing adventure that led me to see lots of new places, meet people in real life I’d only known online, and discover a few things about myself along the journey.But as I moved around, I lived with uncertainty. Tonight I would be in this one house, but where would I be to...
2024-12-2627 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordNot Lost in Translation with Robin AyoubGrowing up in the United States, I was fortunate to not know what it’s like to go through a day with bombs falling around me and my dad fighting in the war. For Robin Ayoub, this was his daily reality, and as he would eventually discover, getting away from it was how he found his way home.Imagine being eleven years old and given 24 hours to learn how to operate a knitting machine because your family's survival depends on it. Then picture yourself going door-to-door every weekend, selling the sweaters you made, knowing you can't come ho...
2024-12-1944 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordYour Power Is In Your Vulnerability with Lilah JonesCan you feel the sense of dread just thinking about that time in your life when something went horribly wrong and everything you had planned was totally shot to hell?And what’s worse? The fear of criticism and rebuke from those you count on to be part of your support network or their well-intentioned comments that don’t do a damned thing to help and actually make you feel worse?Lilah Jones faced these questions when she got ripped off for thousands of dollars and almost lost her new house just when she had it i...
2024-12-0543 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordA Powerful New Perspective on Gratitude: A Special Episode with LoriWhen I was a kid, I remember having Thanksgiving with my grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins. As an adult, there have been years where my husband and I spent Thanksgiving with just my mom or with a small group of friends. In the most recent past years, before last year, it’s been having dinner with just one or two friends. My point is, not everyone has a big dinner to go to - and that’s ok. You’re not “less than” if you don’t. And at the same tim...
2024-11-2823 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordYou Can’t Buy Back Time with Todd BertschWhen it feels like success and fulfillment continue to elude you even when you think you’re doing all the right things and making the right moves, it can be a real mindf*ck.What’s holding you back? What’s the block? Why is it always one step forward, two steps back?Todd Bertsch wrestled with this question for years.He grew up in the 1970s and 1980s in a lower middle-class family where they didn’t really discuss their values or have a lot of those poignant teaching moments you saw in the p...
2024-11-2148 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordYou’re Not Alone with Scott HackmanAs humans, we’re designed for interdependence – we cannot go it alone. We’re designed to be part of networks and complement each other’s journeys. The title of this episode is one of the reasons I started this podcast – to help listeners know they’re not alone in their feelings and life journey. But what happens when, due to your levels of sensitivity and empathy, you become so much in service to the feelings and needs of others that not only does it hold you back, but it holds others back?Scott Hackman, growing up as a high...
2024-11-1449 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordGlass Ceilings and Sticky Floors with Erica Anderson RooneyIn a world where women are told to have it all, do it all, and be it all, the reality they face while actually trying to do these things is far more complex. The pay gap looms large – over the span of a career, it takes 132 years to close – while the confidence gap, the leadership gap, and the broken rung in the corporate ladder persist.Erica Anderson Rooney has faced all these challenges intimately, personally, and head-on as she’s climbed the ranks to the C-suite while raising a family. But wait – there’s more.Erica...
2024-11-0743 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Silver Lyming of Falling Ill with Anne DesjardinsImagine you’re less than 30 years old, and so tired you’re afraid to drive because you might fall asleep at the wheel and cause an accident.Picture the frustration of seeing doctor after doctor after doctor, only to be told you’re not sick, just depressed.Then, after getting so many wrong answers, you conclude you have a brain tumor, because that seems to be the only possibility left.And while all this is going on, you’re also in a toxic relationship that, as part of the final scene, has you seeking...
2024-10-3148 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordUnderstanding Fears and Their Roots with Constantin MorunFear often holds you back, even if it doesn’t make sense to be afraid. You can have everything you ever wanted – a fantastic career, creature comforts, money to afford anything you need, plus “f*ck-you money” in the bank that gives you the freedom to not have to do anything you don’t want to.And even with all that, you can still have an empty, nagging sense like you don’t really have anything at all.This has been Constantin Morun’s journey.Born in Romania, at the tail end of a vicio...
2024-10-2445 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThis Won’t Last Forever with Helen FanucciYou know the saying: your network is your net worth.You can intentionally engineer the results by curating your circle of influence over time, keeping in touch, and being on the alert for subtle connections the casual observer might miss.And then you might unintentionally end up on a flight with the CEO of your former employer, take your chance on grabbing the seat next to him in first class, and seize the opportunity to create networking connections that help him close a major deal.Helen Fanucci took both approaches and had been...
2024-10-1743 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordDo Hard Things with Gabe LulloWhen you work in sales, you of course want to build trust with your prospects and make them feel like you have their best interests at heart and aren’t simply selling them something just to earn a commission. Resilience, adaptability, and continuous learning are as important to your success as empathy, patience, and effective communication.Then there’s the question of whether you enjoy sales and believe in what you’re selling, or if it’s just a job and you’re doing the best you can to be decent at it. These, and other sent...
2024-10-1042 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordIf It’s Meant For You, It Will Find You with Brian FinkLiving through the pandemic changed all of our lives, in one way or another.For some, it was coming to a realization that you didn’t feel like your business or your career was your true calling, in which case it’s possible you may have encountered someone like today’s guest during your journey toward finding something more aligned with your life’s purpose.For others, it’s finding out that although you had a bunch of superficial or virtual interactions every day, you essentially felt alone. And maybe the friend or mentor you needed was...
2024-09-2650 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordPursuing Passion and Finding Work-Life Integration with Rick HerrmannDo you think you’ve got it made?Today’s situation is remarkable for the sheer amount of disruption, rapid change, and even chaos that seems to spin faster and faster with each passing moment.Just in the past few years, the world has been turned upside down, stood back up, spun around, and sent into the rapids by a pandemic that has become endemic, political and social upheaval that might leave you feeling like nothing would really surprise you at this point, predictions becoming fact in weeks rather than years, and much more that few...
2024-09-1942 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe More You Say No, The More You Grow with Michelle CharpentierSelf-reliance. Determination and grit. Treating others the way you want to be treated.These are some of the most noble traits our society says we can possibly have, attributing people who exude them as being the product of a good upbringing and the kind of person we should aspire to be.These are also the traits than can bite you in the ass and f*ck everything up when they come back at you like a boomerang and whack you upside the head just when you think you’ve done it all right and everything’s fi...
2024-09-1244 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordPain To Purpose: The Power of Drumming with Dori StaehleImagine going about your day, following your routine, when out of the blue something comes along and knocks you to the ground, ending the life you’ve known up until that moment.In the movies, things can go into slow motion, or you hear the “needle scratch” that ends the background music as everything comes to a shuttering halt and you fall to the ground.This was the moment Dori Staehle (pronounced STAY-LEE) got beat like a drum in a bicycle accident – and as she was soon to discover, drumming was going to be the next ste...
2024-09-0547 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordLiving and Thriving on the Autism Spectrum with Daniel Keith AustinWhat do Anthony Hopkins, Dan Aykroyd, Courtney Love, Daryl Hannah, Jerry Seinfeld, Albert Einstein, Heather Kuzmich, Elon Musk, Lionel Messi, Eminem, and Satoshi Tajiri have in common?Celebrity? Creativity? Fame? Fortune? Yes, all of them have these things to varying degrees. Each and every one of them also has (or in Einstein’s case, had) autism.So does author, actor, autism advocate, and animal rights activist Daniel Keith Austin, creator of the children’s book series, Chelsea’s New Journey. I was especially interested in hosting Daniel on the...
2024-08-2935 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordNot Coming Out... But Going To with Kevin O’ConnorAs a Gen-Xer, I remember when the prevalent view about being gay was that it was something you’d be afraid for people to find out about. It’s also been our generation that started to change that. We’ve come a long way in the past couple decades, but it can still be a frightening prospect if your family and community are predominantly heteronormative.With the stigma surrounding homosexuality that prevailed in the last century, can you blame someone for being afraid to come out, even if everyone they privately confided in has been comple...
2024-08-0848 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordTrying Not to Die with Deb KrierWhile it's difficult to track how many people with cancer do not seek treatment, the National Cancer Data Base (NCDB) conducted a study a few years ago that indicated about 9.2% of patients receive no first course of treatment.This could be for many reasons, including fear or disbelief in traditional or corporate medicine, alternative treatments that stay off the statistics, or they just say “fuck it” and decide to enjoy the time they have left the best they can.But what if you’re diagnosed with cancer and seeing an oncologist just doesn’t fit into you...
2024-08-0144 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Power of Meditation and A Major Milestone: A Special Episode with LoriFirst of all, I’d like to take a moment to acknowledge and celebrate all the work that’s gone into getting to this milestone of 150 episodes of Fine is a 4-Letter Word.In past solos, I’ve talked about courage, doing what others won’t do, energy, and making decisions.If you’re not familiar with what I do outside of this show, I work with business leaders and corporate teams, giving them tools and techniques so they can be more focused, resilient, and collaborative so they can manage the distractions in their heads that keep...
2024-07-2525 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordFailing Doesn’t Make You A Failure with Christina Robinson RaceIn almost all of my episodes on Fine is a 4-Letter Word, I deal in varying degrees with the circles of life.In two of the themes I explore with my guests – the values and beliefs they were raised with, and the moment in their life when they realized or found out that everything wasn’t “fine” – we see how these themes come together. And see where some of the conscious as well as the subconscious imprints either trigger the latter and/or blaze the trail for self-discovery, self-improvement, and self-actualization.For the first time, I have a r...
2024-07-1848 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordSomeday Is Not a Day On the Calendar with Noemi BeresYour life is a collage of all the experiences you have, people you meet, and what you learn along the way.Like many collages, even if they begin with a concept or a plan, as you bring them together they may take directions you hadn’t anticipated and show you things even more interesting than what you originally expected.This was the case for Noemi Beres, whose professional work owning and managing a podcast booking agency involves helping people tell their stories and connecting them to hosts who provide the canvas for their verbal collage....
2024-07-1141 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordGratitude is The Foundation of Confidence with Tara LaFon GoochHaving compassion for people is generally considered a good thing and a sign that you’re a decent and kind person who makes an effort to make the world a better place by being part of it.Raised in a religious household, Tara LaFon Gooch learned the value of love and kindness towards others. However, she struggled to extend that same love and compassion to herself.She came from a home with an abusive, toxic father who disappeared from the picture just when she was beginning to discover the meaning of life from an adult pe...
2024-07-0346 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordFabulous In 15, Starting At 50 with Kim RahirPicture yourself living what seems like a regular life as a parent and entrepreneur, where everything seems uneventful and you have every reason to expect the rest of your life to follow a pretty straightforward path. You know, everything’s FINE.Then, one day you go to pick up your kids from school and all of a sudden you’re seeing double.Next thing you know, your life has been turned completely upside-down, your legs are numb and you’re sitting in a wheelchair.In what version of reality could you picture yourself becomi...
2024-06-2745 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordElevate Your Financial Frequency with Susan GlusicaHere’s a challenge for you: ask your social media followers if they believe money can buy happiness or bring it up at your next social gathering and watch people fight it out.Some say you can; some say you can’t; others say that money cannot buy happiness like getting a box of happiness at the store, but it solves problems and greases the wheels that make happiness possible and attainable.But what if you’ve been looking at it in the completely wrong way?Growing up the daughter of a German immigr...
2024-06-2042 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe F*ck Yes Formula for Energizing Your Life: A Special Episode with LoriToday’s solo episode is about ENERGY! When you look it up, Energy is defined as the capacity or ability to do work. I’d expand it to include the capacity or ability to have fun too. If you have no energy, you’re not going to be getting any work done or having any fun. “Fine” is not fun – it’s a 4-Letter Word!Tune in now as we cover three key areas:1) Figuring out your values and why they matter2) Finding your energetic home and what’...
2024-05-3023 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordRegenerating Joy with Brad ChandlerFrom the very first episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, where my guest revealed that she did not even know what emotions were until she was in middle age because she was punished as a child for having them, I’ve been sharing stories of what happens from the inside out.My mission and drive for this podcast is to give you hope, help you find your passion and purpose, and dare you to see the life that’s waiting for you, so you’ll never hear - or say - the word “fine” in the same way a...
2024-05-2345 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordReplacing Fine with F*ck Off! with P.J. RoscoeChildren who are told to be “seen, but not heard” learn early on that their thoughts, feelings, and words don’t matter.Then as adults, they continue to silence themselves even when they do speak by hiding and suppressing their true thoughts and feelings.Growing up in a small Welsh village, P.J. Roscoe learned early on to know her place, don’t have an opinion, don’t question or challenge anything, and generally stay completely out of the way. It was such a small village that as P.J. says, you could fart on on...
2024-05-1645 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordAre You a Fiction Writer of Your Own Story? with Lana McAraFamily trauma and drama flow through generations and can take on a form of fiction around “family unity,” “handed down traditions,” and “that’s the way it is” that sweep the suffering under the rug. But two things can happen.Either you’ll find yourself in pain from stepping on the lumps of dirt under the rug, or the rug will slip and slide due to the dirt making it less sticky to the floor – either way, you could fall when you least expect it.This need to create narratives could be part of why Lana McAra became...
2024-05-0952 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWisdom from Grandpa Owl with Philip LowerIn the United States, more than 64 million men identify themselves as fathers.Yet, 7 million American dads are absent from the lives of their minor children, and 17.4 million children live in fatherless homes!Philip Lower, technically, grew up as one of these statistics.His biological father took his own life when Phil was five years old, leaving him with the question: "Why did Daddy have to leave me?"Five years later his mother met and married a wonderful man who became Phil's stepfather. But, it wasn't until until he was 25 that Phil...
2024-05-0254 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Truth Always Comes Out with Stephany AnnImagine you start with a sense of purpose, aligned with your goals, accustomed to your family supporting you in living your authentic life, and successfully practicing the art of the possible.Then, all of a sudden, it gets taken away.Stephany Ann was raised in a supportive family environment that embraced individuality and encouraged her to pursue her passions. When she was 18, her mother released her to do what she intended to do.For five years, she lived the nomad life, backpacking worldwide. Then she returned to the United States for college but...
2024-04-2552 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordWhen The Shepherd Must Find His Own Way with Matthew BrackettWhen you go out to find yourself, the journey can take you places you didn’t imagine you’d ever go.Maybe it will take you to a different town, or even a different country.But once you get there, it’s possible you’ll discover you really need to go somewhere else. Kind of like in the book The Alchemist.Matthew Brackett felt the calling to go into seminary life from an early age, and it seemed to align with the values he was raised with.Growing up as the 10th of 13...
2024-04-1842 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordPull The Weeds When They’re Wet with Kris WardWhat is our cultural obsession with busyness? How many businesspeople do you know who wear their exhaustion as a badge of honor? Kris Ward was raised with values she eventually learned she had to overcome – the values of moving fast, getting a lot of stuff done, and working hard. Hard work equals success.But is any of this true?Kris grew up, got married, and started a business. She was determined to succeed and put in a lot of long, hard hours. Her marriage seemed happy, her business seemed to be growing, and al...
2024-04-1139 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordUpdate on My Nomad Life: A Special Episode with LoriMany of our listeners have been asking for an update on my life as a nomad. For those of you who don't know, in October 2023 I gave up my apartment, put most of my belongings into a 5x10 storage unit in North Virginia, and since then have been traveling the country housesitting cats (and some dogs too) through a program called Trusted House Sitters.Over the past six months, I've visited places like West Virginia, Virginia, Kentucky, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Florida, and posted updates on social media as often as I can.
2024-04-0439 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordNobody Gave Me An Instruction Manual with Stephanie O’BrienLeaving things better than you found them and being honest and open are good traits to have and will likely serve you well.The former makes the world, or your little part of it, better because you were part of it, while the latter both shows respect and earns you respect.Stephanie O’Brien was raised with these values. Although her life took an interesting path, they became her true north and steered her through challenges, including a business relationship that ended due to misaligned values.Growing up, she didn’t fit in well...
2024-03-2841 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordSomething From Less Than Nothing with Zack LemearThis week’s guest, Zack Lemear, is a marketing and branding strategist who, on the surface, looks and sounds pretty much like any entrepreneur consultant.It makes sense he’s successful helping businesses with marketing and branding since his ticket in the birth lottery won him a blank slate to create and brand himself. Here on Fine is a 4-Letter Word, you may know my first question of every guest is to ask them what values they were raised with as they were growing up.Zack is probably the first guest to ever say...
2024-03-2155 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordBeyond Safe Spaces with Gregory HalpenHave you considered how much of what you do - even the things that seem to bring you joy - began as coping mechanisms to deal with trauma?Even your talents and your brilliance might be subconscious, or even conscious, reactions to traumatic experiences from your past.Gregory Halpen came from a family background of violence, addiction, and abuse. Yet one of the main core values he felt he was raised with was the importance of creativity, which he learned from his mother.That's just it, though - his mother had developed creativity...
2024-03-1443 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordJust F**king Be Nice – To Yourself with Ely DelaneyAs human beings, we are both programmed and pressured to say everything is “fine”. Someone asks, “how are you?” and you’re supposed to reply “fine, how are you?”Have you noticed that a benign, well-meaning core value many of us are raised with could be reinforcing this and blocking us from improving ourselves?Ely Delaney, whom I met through Success Champions and recently reconnected with when he responded to an ad from our production company looking for guests, is one of these people.His parents raised him with a strong work ethic, em...
2024-03-0743 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordAn Inspired (And Haunted) Road Trip with Tracy St. CroiDo you remember a time when the phone would ring and you had to answer to find out who was calling?How about when you saw that stack of presents with your name on them for Christmas or your birthday – did you have a sixth sense that told you which one was the present you really wanted?Tracy St. Croi was one of those kids back in the 1980s who just knew.Tracy revolted against all the "so-called" values and systems she was raised with growing up in the Midwest, such as bragging ab...
2024-02-2947 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordMotivational Firewood with Steve GamlinAre you someone who uses self-deprecation to get laughs?Steve Gamlin was too until a pivotal moment when his friend Kris figuratively put on a pair of steel toe boots and kicked his ass and woke him up to the dangerous effects of doing that. Steve was raised to believe in the value of hard work. When Steve was 7, his dad bought their house and started remodeling it, one room at a time. All the Gamlin kids pitched in – helping with the remodeling, yardwork, and before Steve was ten years old he was clearing brush an...
2024-02-2246 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordRage Against the Midlife with Kimberly (Kimby) SamsonHave you ever seen those memes that compare the co-stars of “The Firm”, Wilford Brimley looking elderly at age 56 and Tom Cruise looking young at age 56?These memes show us that these days, people are aging much more gracefully, or at least not according to the same timetable they used to.Did the timetable ever make sense to begin with?Is there supposed to be a specific age where we begin to question whether Fine is a 4-Letter Word?Kimberly, or Kimby Samson grew up without a lot of specific values. It w...
2024-02-1544 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordLiving the Beige Life with Sonia GrahamWhen your life story is dominated by trauma resulting from one fucked-up thing after another, it plays a nasty trick on your definition of what’s “fine”.After surviving being killed almost three times before she was two years old, Sonia Graham was adopted into a strict Puerto Rican / Irish Catholic family. Her father was in the Air Force, so while she developed resilience to deal with ever-changing situations, she did NOT learn how to create lasting relationships because she knew whatever friends she made, she would not have for very long.Because of her extens...
2024-02-0843 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Joy Code with Marc ZalmanoffDoes it seem like everyone else is doing great while you’re struggling?And because it seems like you’re the only one who can’t manage and everyone else has their shit together, you’re either afraid or unwilling to talk about it?But what if you then got to have deep, meaningful conversations with other people and discovered they’re going through the same struggles as you?Marc Zalmanoff was raised largely by a single father who didn’t really explain much to him. His father taught him lessons by example – how to be a go...
2024-02-0149 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordFalling Behind Before Getting Ahead with Adam HommeyWhat if it’s never been “fine”?What if it feels like every good thing comes with downfalls and you’re racing to keep up?Adam Hommey was raised with the values of pursuing academic excellence and being selfless to the point where it became a detriment. At the same time he was expected to achieve, he felt denied the opportunity to enjoy his success.It all started in his early childhood. He was almost three years old and had barely spoken a word. It turned out he was deaf. Fortunately, his hearing was rest...
2024-01-2053 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordMidlife Emergence with Jen BerlingoMany of us go through life wondering if we’re really living our authentic lives.Are you doing what you really want to do?Are you being who you really want to be?Even if you’ve created a great life, been fortunate, and haven’t had what you consider an existential crisis, is something just not quite right?Jen Berlingo had what seemed to be a great childhood. As she would discover later, she thought she was happy because early on she embraced being a good girl, a people pleaser, and as...
2024-01-1147 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordHer Year of Exploration with Kathy GoughenourEver go through a part of your life thinking everything is fine, but then experience that moment when your whole world turns upside down?It could be a debilitating health issue.Or maybe finding out just when you achieved what you thought were your dreams, that it wasn’t what you really wanted after all. Or it comes with baggage that you didn't bargain for.But what if things never were “fine” to begin with?Kathy Goughenour was raised as the daughter of two Pentecostal preachers and seemed destined for a life w...
2024-01-0447 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordChange, Control, and Courage: A Special Episode with LoriIn this end-of-year solo episode, I’m talking about change, control, and courage. How do you identify the need for change? What are the signs of dissatisfaction, lack of motivation, and other indicators that signal a need for change in various aspects of your life? I’m inviting you to reflect on where in your own life you may be hesitant to make necessary changes.We’re talking about understanding fear and resistance because they’re a normal part of change. Once you’re aware of what the common fears are – like fear of the unkno...
2023-12-2840 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Truth is a Lie with Sally LotzImagine, for a moment, being a child and knowing something was wrong, but being too young to understand.Now picture yourself in a cult without knowing the word for it.That’s what happened to Sally Lotz.Until she was four years old, things seemed normal. Then her parents divorced, her dad left the picture as he served overseas in the military, and her mother took Sally and her siblings to a new city.Suddenly, everything changed.Instead of having freedom to explore, now all her decisions were made fo...
2023-12-1445 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordOvercoming as an Overachiever with Holly BertoneA lot of us have a story about that time we hit rock bottom.For some of us, we find out there's yet another rock bottom when the floor bursts out from the one we're on.Then another.What happens when you're looking for the safety net, like someone in a freefall, and it doesn't appear?How does it feel when you have values but are physically incapable of living up to them - especially as an overachiever?Holly Bertone was raised to put the values of honesty and...
2023-12-0749 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordBeyond The Grind Life with Tess WittlerMany people believe they have a dream lifestyle – the perfect house, the perfect job or business, the perfect family and social cycle, just everything perfect.Some create checklists or vision boards so they can visualize it and align their thoughts and actions toward having it for themselves.But what if you think you’ve achieved it, but it turns out you’ve veered way off course?Tess Wittler was raised in central Pennsylvania as part of a tight-knit family. Growing up, it was annoying to visit grandparents, uncles and aunts, cousins who were much y...
2023-11-3044 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordNew Reasons (and Ways) to Celebrate Thanksgiving: A Special Episode with LoriIn this very special solo episode, I'm talking about gratitude. But let’s dig into it from a different perspective. We'll be starting with a seemingly random question - are you interested in getting high? Because that’s one of the neurological effects gratitude has on us - no sketchy dealer required. It involves a particular chemical in our brains that makes us feel more gratitude, sleep better, alleviate stress and handle it better, strengthen our immune system so we're healthier, reduce depression and anxiety, and so much more.Reme...
2023-11-2318 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordYou’re Not Just One Thing with Alexandra Clayton and Michal SinnottFirst, shout-out to my previous guest, Aneta Kuzma, for connecting me with Alexandra Clayton and Michal Sinnott, who you’re about to hear from today.Personal wellness means different things to different people.When you get to know someone, you find out there’s a lot of unpacking to do.Alexandra and Michal met in a female filmmaking collaborative alliance, and little did they know the exciting journey it would lead them on.Growing up, they were both raised to appreciate the value of education in different ways. Alexandra’s parents limite...
2023-11-1655 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordFinding Fulfillment Via Travel with Kyle KroegerMany of the stories my guests share here on Fine is a 4-Letter Word involve dramatic downfalls, tumultuous transformations, and earth-turning evolutions.Even if you haven’t really had one of those, I’m willing to bet there’s something going on that’s not fine. Let’s put it to the test.Kyle Kroeger was raised in an entrepreneurial environment with four core values – work hard, do your job and be passionate about it, have your own life and be with your friends, and always ask what else you could be doing.He went to c...
2023-11-0941 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordThe Gift in the Struggle with Dr. David GustitusThe human body is an amazing machine.It has resilience and capabilities most people don't understand.But what happens to the body when we sacrifice too much in service to others?Dr. David Gustitus was raised by parents who divorced when he was very young, but it didn't seem that bad because they were both on the same page about raising him and very involved in his upbringing.He was taught the value of self-sacrifice - that you give and give and give, to the point of having very little regard...
2023-11-0247 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordLearn to Love Your Story with Dr. Natalie MarrI believe humans have an innate desire to do the right thing in all areas of their business and life.But what IS the right thing?And what if it feels wrong to other people when you do it?Dr. Natalie Marr was raised as the middle child of 5 in a culturally Catholic family where she learned two core values: standing up for the little guy and having a powerful work ethic.As a therapist, she ran into imposter syndrome when she went through not one, but two divorces. How could...
2023-10-2644 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordBreaking the Blueprint with Amy PalmerEvents of the past few years have created space for many people to question their concept of how things should be.I speak often of the "sabbatical life" and how taking a step back can help you see things that have been right in front of you all along, but you missed them because everything was moving so fast.The pandemic brought the world as we had known it to a sudden halt.Amy Palmer was one of those who had the fast pace of her life hit a sudden standstill. Raised in...
2023-10-1943 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordIt Seemed Normal... But It Really Wasn’t with Wendy CockeAs children, without a frame of reference to really compare, however you're raised or whatever you experience seems to be normal.But what if "normal" is not actually what's natural for you?Wendy Cocke was raised in a family that owned a textile business specializing in cut and sew. From an early age, she was involved in business and financial decisions, basically as an equal member of the family. She was taught to think and problem-solve more than she was to memorize and regurgitate. Very different from what many of her classmates experienced.
2023-10-1244 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordLife is Great (Please Send Help) with Jason SeidenAll human beings, like you, are guided by a set of values.But when you stop and think about it, do you really know where those values came from?What's more, will they hold up when the Universe calls your bluff?Jason Seiden's career journey started on third base, right at the height of the dot-com boom. His first job was as an executive producer at RollingStone.com. Through an early career that saw a dizzying rise in his professional profile and a tall stack of achievements, he was fortunate enough to have...
2023-10-0546 min
FINE is a 4-Letter WordTop of Heart with Grant MullerFirst of all, I'd like to give a shout-out to our previous guest, Mike Fisher, for connecting me with Grant Muller, who you're about to hear from today.And what a story you're about to discover!Do you know what it's like to passionately want something - to fall in love with somebody - and not be able to express it because society says it's wrong? To suppress and bury who you really are and what you really feel just to try to fit in and not become a target?Somewhere along the...
2023-09-2847 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S3E13) From Nonprofit to Nomad: How Dan Clouser Found the Courage to Follow His Inner VoiceAre you feeling stuck in a rut and looking for a way to shake things up? Then you won't want to miss this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, where I chat with Dan Clouser, author, adventurer, and all-around inspiration.You'll hear how Dan left his successful nonprofit youth sports organization behind to travel the country in an RV with his wife and golden retriever. We'll explore how he found the courage to follow his inner voice and the importance of taking time for yourself.And that's not all! Dan also hosts his own...
2023-04-0639 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S3E11) From Dead to Thriving: The Healing Power of Breathwork with Leland Holgate Sr.Are you looking for a new way to recharge and reset your mind and body? If so, you don't want to miss my latest episode of "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" featuring Leland Holgate Sr., founder of The Willful Warrior. Leland is a former quadriplegic who turned to breathwork and meditation to heal his body and mind, and now he's sharing his unique approach with others.During our conversation, Leland explained the science behind his breathwork program, and how it can help you alkalize your body, activate healthy genes, and rewire your brain. We also talked about...
2023-03-2354 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E18) Superpowers of HSPs with Cathy SpaasOn today’s episode, my guest is walking, talking, and jumping proof that you can make being sensitive your superpower. Cathy Spaas and I are talking about her career as an elite international showjumper, transforming relationships by working on yourself, and the X-men superpowers that come with being a highly sensitive person. Cathy is a world-class coach to professional performers, artists, and creatives. Through her groundbreaking Claim Your Shine modality she supports these highly sensitive and intuitive people so that they can reach and sustain success in their highly demanding creative industries.In addition, Cathy is...
2022-05-0537 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E16) 6 Elements of Joy With Marissa LevinMy guest this week is Marissa Levin. We’retalking about her spiritual journey, moving from the unconsciousbeliefs that keep you stuck in fine to conscious beliefs that allow you thrive.Why she walked away from the company she spent 17 years building. And how therelationships in your life can help you know yourself better. Marissa’s been an entrepreneur for more than30 years and recently launched Marissa International with a mission of helpingone billion people access their most joyful life. She’s...
2022-04-2138 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E15) Path of Constant Transformation with S.A. GrantMy guest this week is the mastermind behind the brand Boss Uncaged. The one and only S.A. Grant. We’re talking about his lifelong passion for learning and his unconventional approach to building businesses. You’ll hear how he got his start as a marketer, the life-changing event that inspired Boss Uncaged, and what he recommends to kids in school now. S. A. Grant is a recovering workaholic. He’s the Host of Boss Uncaged Podcast, CEO of Serebral360 - A Design & marketing agency - and Brand & Growth Strategist Consultant at SA Grant.com. S. A. ha...
2022-04-1433 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E14) What Does Courage Feel Like?Welcome to the 50th episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word! I was originally hoping to host a big party when I got to episode 50, but honestly, it kind of crept on me really fast and I wasn’t organized enough to plan ahead. So let’s do that for episode 100, ok? It’ll give us all time to prepare and then we can meet up on March 23, 2023.What we can do right now though is celebrate with stickers! I’ve got these fun Fine is a 4-Letter Word stickers and I’m happy to send you one. Just...
2022-04-0712 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E13) Setting Her Own Course with Sabrina VictoriaI am so truly blessed to have the most incredible people show up to tell their stories on this show. Today it’s Sabrina Victoria. She’s sharing about her upbringing as a Jehovah’s Witness and how she got kicked out of that community, what she went through in the abusive relationship she thought would save her, and the lessons she’s learned that have allowed her to create this abundant and thriving life she lives now. No doubt you’ll be astounded at her patience, organization, and courage. She exhibits all three at the highest levels.
2022-03-3143 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E12) The 2% Mentality with Roderick JeffersonThe amazingness of my guests and the insight they bring keeps astounding me. You are in for another fantastic show today with Roderick Jefferson. The first conversation he and I had, I was scribbling notes like a madwoman. Today, you’ll hear us talking about the importance of making someone else’s day a little bit better. The first wake up call that woke him up temporarily and the adjustments he made after that. The other piece of the equation to ROI. How to be a better leader. And so much more. Roderick Jefferson’s list o...
2022-03-2439 min
FINE is a 4-Letter Word(S2E11) Andy Frisella & Ed Mylett Saved My Life with Amanda CatarziToday I’m talking with the one and only Amanda Catarzi. Not to sensationalize, but this is one of those episodes that is going to grab you by the throat and take you on a rollercoaster. Hopefully by the end, it will inspire you take action, and in the takeaways, I’ll tell you how you can. Raised in a cult, a survivor of sex trafficking, and now owner of a content agency, Amanda Catarzi has seen it all. After escaping her trafficker, Amanda dedicated the next 10 years of her life to fighting sex trafficking. She...
2022-03-1741 min