Shows
No Way OutDrones, Airspace, AI, and Decision Making: DroneUp CEO on Leading in ComplexitySend us a textWhen Tom Walker walked into a Best Buy and saw drone technology more advanced than the space shuttle selling for under $1,000, he knew aerial autonomous systems would fundamentally change society. What he couldn't have predicted was reconnecting with a former 13-96 OCS classmate decades later to discuss how military experience shapes innovation in the rapidly evolving drone industry.The stakes couldn't be higher. With over a million drones now flying in US airspace—outnumbering manned aircraft four to one—and that number projected to double by 2027, we face an unprecedented airspace inte...2025-06-021h 05
No Way OutTop Gun Day Special: The Four Ps of OODASend us a textIn this electrifying No Way Out podcast episode, recorded on May 13, 2025—Top Gun Day—hosts Brian "Ponch" Rivera and Mark "Moose" McGrath dive into John Boyd’s OODA Loop through the "Four Ps of OODA": Perception, Pathfinding, Prediction, and Planning. Framed as a Top Gun Day Special, they clarify that while John Boyd, a former U.S. Air Force Top Gun instructor, developed the OODA Loop, it was not rooted in fighter aviation but emerged from his remarkable consilience, pulling from diverse disciplines including systems theory, natural science, philosophy, warfare, The Toyota P...2025-05-1351 min
No Way OutAlan Green and The America Codes: We Are One (No Way Out Ep. 113)Send us a textDive into an electrifying episode of No Way Out that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about America’s founding—and the very fabric of reality itself. Host Ponch and veteran co-host Bart welcome Alan Green, a polymath whose 20-year journey decoding Shakespeare’s secrets has unearthed a mind-bending revelation: the America Codes, hidden within the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. This isn’t just history—it’s a cosmic puzzle that ties sacred geometry, ancient pyramids, and the unity of humanity into a narrative...2025-03-262h 31
No Way OutThe Wayback Mission: Mark Graham on Preserving the Past with the Internet ArchiveSend us a textUnlock the secrets of the past and secure the future with No Way Out! Hosts Moose and Ponch dive into the digital frontier with Mark Graham, a veteran of the U.S. Air Force and a key figure at the Internet Archive, a nonprofit founded by Brewster Kahle in 1996 to preserve the web and humanity’s published works. Often called a modern-day Library of Alexandria, the Internet Archive has grown from its early days of recording the web to archiving treasures like Grateful Dead bootlegs and Pentagon news clippings. This episode explores the ch...2025-03-0351 min
No Way OutThe AI Edge: Why OODA, Cybernetics, and Neuroscience Matter with Sean ManionSend us a textIn this timely episode of No Way Out, neuroscientist and systems thinker Sean Manion joins Ponch and Mark to explore the untapped potential of the OODA Loop beyond its military origins. Sean brings over 25 years of experience in neuroscience, clinical research, and health technology to an expansive discussion that redefines the OODA Loop through the lens of natural sciences, cybernetics, complexity theory, and neuroscience.The conversation dives into how the OODA Loop’s foundation in feedback systems aligns with modern advances in...2025-01-271h 23
No Way OutPhoenix Revival: A Fighter Pilot's Journey Through Trauma & Alternative Healing with Kegan GillSend us a textFormer fighter pilot Kegan "SMurF" Gill takes us on a gripping journey through the skies and beyond in this revelatory episode. From the intense world of aerial combat to the harrowing experience of a high-speed ejection, SMurF shares his story of survival and resilience. We explore the critical decisions made in the split-second chaos of dogfighting and the profound impacts of traumatic brain injuries on his life. Smurf's candid recounting of his battle with severe injuries and mental health challenges unveils the stark realities faced by veterans and the potential pitfalls of conventional...2025-01-161h 26
No Way OutWarrior Philosophers: Ancient Wisdom for Modern Challenges with Sam AlaimoSend us a textImagine harnessing ancient wisdom to navigate the complexities of modern life. Join us, three warrior philosophers—a Marine, a Naval Aviator, and a Navy SEAL—who have done just that. Sam Alaimo joins us to share personal stories of how the philosophies of Socrates, Aristotle, Seneca, and Epictetus have been vital tools in their transition from military service to civilian life. Experience firsthand how these timeless teachings provide clarity and guidance in facing existential challenges, not just for veterans but for all of us.Technology and isolation are at an all-time high...2025-01-131h 05
No Way OutStrategic Lessons from Conflict: Military History, Leadership, and Adaptation with General David PetraeusSend us a textDiscover the strategic insights of General David Petraeus as he shares lessons from his book, "Conflict," co-authored with Andrew Roberts. General Petraeus offers an in-depth look into the military historical context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, drawing from his experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan. Listeners will gain a comprehensive understanding of his strategic leadership framework and learn how past conflicts, including Vietnam, shape modern military strategies.Explore the importance of creating a culture of strategic leadership, drawing parallels between the military and business worlds. Reflect on the strategic missteps in...2025-01-0956 min
No Way OutStrong Orientation: How Strength Improves Our Capacity For Free and Independent Action with Nick DelgadilloSend us a textWhat if the key to maintaining your fitness goals during the chaotic holiday season lies in the simplicity of strength training? In this episode of No Way Out, we’re joined by Nick Delgadillo, CEO of Starting Strength Gyms (www.startingstrength.com), to explore how foundational movements not only bring structure and stability to your routine but also reshape your orientation—the lens through which you shape perceptions, decisions, actions and learning. Strength training becomes a critical part of our orientation, improving our capacity for free and independent action, even...2025-01-061h 15
No Way OutTransformative Team Dynamics: From Battlefield Strategies to Boardroom Success with Martin MurphySend us a textUnlock the secrets of military precision and organizational brilliance as we take you on a journey from the battlefield to the boardroom. Are traditional hierarchies holding your team back? Discover how dynamic teaming structures inspired by Navy SEALs and aviation experts can propel your business to new heights. Martin Murphy unravels the transformative power of psychological safety and challenges the age-old competitive mindset, urging businesses to embrace collaboration as their evolutionary advantage.Navigate the intricacies of the OODA loop with us, as we move beyond its linear confines into a realm...2024-12-191h 15
No Way OutInflation, Automation, and Empire Hangovers with Sean RingSend us a textIn this wide-ranging discussion, Sean Ring provides a global perspective on markets, geopolitics, and the intersections between politics and economics. The conversation spans Sean's experiences living abroad—from London to Asia to Italy—while offering critical insights into U.S. markets and global capital flows. Key themes include the inevitability of automation, the challenges of global supply chains, and the geopolitical implications of U.S. tariffs, China, Russia, and Europe.Sean argues that while the United States remains the most viable market for investment, global economic and political shifts are...2024-12-131h 28
No Way OutBlitzed: The Methamphetamine-Fueled Blitzkrieg with Norman OhlerSend us a textHow did methamphetamines fuel the Blitzkrieg and shape World War II? Join us as we uncover the startling revelations from Norman Ohler, author of "Blitzed," fresh from his impactful appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast. Norman provides a fascinating exploration of the German military's extensive use of Pervitin, a methamphetamine, during their rapid and aggressive campaigns. We contrast this with the outdated French strategies and their reliance on red wine, painting a vivid picture of how stimulants altered the course of warfare.Dive deeper into the widespread adoption of stimulants across...2024-12-091h 01
No Way OutTransformative Leadership in Challenging Times with the Honorable Thomas ModlySend us a textReady for a masterclass in leadership and innovation? Join us as we welcome the Honorable Thomas Modly, the esteemed author of "Vectors," who is about to share exclusive insights from his remarkable journey from the Naval Academy to the Pentagon. Mobley unravels the unique cultural nuances of the Navy and the strategic challenges leaders face today. By the end of this episode, you’ll grasp how Modly's pivotal experiences parallel the evolution of the flow system, a revolutionary framework for building high-performing teams in complex adaptive environments.Modly's narrative fascinatingly explores hi...2024-11-211h 41
No Way OutDitch Outsourced Thinking: Unleash the Power of Red Teaming w/ Dimbleby & CorellaSend us a textPonch, Jose, and Marcus discuss the critical importance of internal capability within organizations, the dangers of outsourcing thinking, and the transformative power of Red Teaming. They explore the role of the chief of staff in driving change, the necessity of training and development, and the challenges faced in agile transformations. The discussion also touches on mental health in leadership and the need for a holistic approach to organizational change, emphasizing the importance of relationships and empowerment in fostering a thriving workplace culture.Learn how to cultivate a culture of openness and...2024-11-121h 19
No Way OutConceptual Spiral Redux: John Boyd’s Blueprint for Thriving in Complexity with Chet RichardsSend us a textStep into the mind of legendary military strategist John Boyd as No Way Out unveils a special redux of his transformative briefing, Conceptual Spiral, originally presented at the 1993 SpaceCast 2020 conference. This re-release includes a full transcript, restored slides, and an illuminating foreword from Boyd’s close friend and collaborator, Chet Richards, who joins us on this episode to discuss the relevance of Boyd’s concepts today. Sponsored by AGLX, this episode is a powerful exploration of decision-making, adaptability, and strategic agility.Join us as we dive into Boyd’s radical “Conceptual Spiral”...2024-11-071h 13
No Way OutHow Fat Leonard Breached the Navy's OODA Loop with Tom WrightSend us a textIn this episode of No Way Out, investigative journalist Tom Wright joins us to dissect the infamous Fat Leonard scandal, a dark chapter in U.S. Navy history where corruption, manipulation, and ethical breaches were exposed on a massive scale. Leonard Francis, the Malaysian contractor at the heart of the scandal, exploited systemic weaknesses in Navy operations, unraveling how deep-rooted issues in military culture can jeopardize national security.Tom Wright, Ponch (a retired Navy captain), and Mark McGrath (a former Marine Corps captain) explore the challenges whistleblowers faced, the struggles of N...2024-10-231h 12
No Way OutA Daughter’s Perspective: Unpacking John Boyd's Legacy with Mary BoydSend us a textCurious about how the legendary military strategist John Boyd shaped the world of aviation and beyond? Join us for an engaging conversation with Mary Boyd, who offers a captivating glimpse into growing up with such an influential father. Through her unique perspective, we explore the untold stories of John Boyd's life, his foundational work on the OODA loop, and the challenges of preserving his legacy. Mary’s dedication to digitizing her father's work, ensuring his uncopyrighted ideas remain accessible, sheds light on the ongoing relevance of his strategies for generations to come.2024-10-151h 29
No Way OutMastering the Medium with Andrew McLuhanSend us a textWhat happens when you blend the strategic brilliance of John Boyd with the transformative media insights of Marshall McLuhan? We promise you'll gain a fresh perspective on decision-making and media effects. This episode features an enlightening conversation with Andrew McLuhan, who shares the legacy of his grandfather, Marshall McLuhan, while exploring the powerful synergy between Boyd’s OODA “loop” sketch and the groundbreaking theories of media as “extensions of man.” Our discussion offers a deeper understanding of how these two thinkers complement each other, especially in the realm of cognitive science and the practical...2024-10-091h 23
No Way OutPsyWar with Dr. Robert W. MaloneSend us a textIt's time to favor Respectful Truth Over Bias-Driven Coherence. In what might be our most important conversation yet, we sit down with Dr. Robert Malone—renowned expert in virology, vaccines, and now, fifth-generation warfare. In this episode, Dr. Malone shares insights to the critical topics covered in his and his wife’s upcoming book, PsyWar: Enforcing the New World Order.Listeners will get an exclusive first look into Dr. Malone's thoughts on:The evolution of warfare, focusing on fifth-generation warfare, and how it’s affecting global psychological and informa...2024-10-032h 01
No Way OutPsyWar Primer: Liminal Warfare, Flow, 5GW, Sun Tzu and MoreSend us a textHey No Way Out listeners!We’re thrilled to bring you this exclusive primer episode for our highly anticipated conversation with Dr. Robert Malone. This mashup episode is your gateway to the upcoming deep-dive discussion on Dr. Malone and his wife’s new book, PsyWar: Enforcing the New World Order.What’s Inside?This special mashup includes invaluable insights from some of our top No Way Out guests like David Kilcullen, PhD, James Giordano, PhD, Adrian Bejan, PhD, Michael Ashley, and James Gimian. Each offers diverse perspectives on critic...2024-09-3030 min
No Way OutUnplugged: Information Abundance and Digital Detox with Michael GuimarinSend us a textTransform your relationship with information and reclaim your focus in today’s digital age! Join us for a thought-provoking conversation with Michael Gummerin, an expert who has spent the last four years coaching individuals on how to manage their information diets. Michael introduces his groundbreaking low information one-day detox, showcasing how a shift from mere observation to true orientation can fundamentally enhance our decision-making processes. Discover the structured steps that can help you reduce the influence of synthetic forces and reorient your sensemaking in an information-saturated world.As we navigate the co...2024-09-251h 30
No Way OutReimagining Neurodiversity: From Isolation to InteractionSend us a textWhat if your child’s unique way of seeing the world could be their greatest strength? Join us for a heartwarming dive into neurodivergence and the environments that help everyone thrive. Our guest, Sarah Kernion, founder and CEO of Saturday's Story, is a global keynote speaker and neurodiversity advocate. She’s also a mother of three, including two children with non-speaking autism. Sarah believes in “choosing interaction over isolation,” a lesson she drew from John Boyd’s briefing, "The Strategic Game of ? and ?."Sarah shares her “Inchs...2024-09-171h 07
No Way OutMarket VUCA: Reorienting in the New World Economy with Philippe GijselsSend us a textPhilippe Gijsels, Chief Strategy Officer, BNP Paribas Fortis joins Moose and Ponch on this episode of No Way Out. The conversation explores the concept of volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity (VUCA) and how it relates to investing and trend following. The analogy of surfing waves is used to describe the approach to navigating these challenges. The importance of having a disciplined approach and following objective rules is emphasized. The discussion also touches on the changing dynamics of the market, the need for adaptive strategies, and the influence of human behavior on...2024-09-031h 15
No Way OutLesson NOT Learned: Illegal Mandates with Col (Ret.) Thomas "Buzz" RempferSend us a textThe conversation examines military anthrax vaccine mandates and draws parallels to COVID-19 vaccine mandates. "No Way Out" welcomes special co-host Matthew "Whiz" Buckley, host of the "No Fallen Heroes Max Afterburner" podcast, along with Tom "Buzz" Rempfer, to dissect the contentious issues surrounding vaccine mandates. Utilizing their backgrounds in fighter aviation and operational risk management, these former TOPGUNs explain how concepts like John Boyd's OODA loop have shaped their views on decision-making processes. Buzz also shares insights from his book "Unyielding: Marathons Against Illegal Mandates," where he exposes the alarming quality c...2024-08-261h 05
No Way OutBuilding Snowmobiles: John Boyd's 1992 Commencement Wisdom with Mark SquegliaSend us a textThe conversation explores John Boyd's early life in Erie, Pennsylvania, and his connection to Strong Vincent High School. The discussion is enriched by guest Mark Squeglia a lifelong Erie, PA resident and recently featured speaker in the PBS episode "Chronicles: John Boyd and his OODA Loop." Mark Squeglia details Boyd's upbringing, the influences that shaped his strategic mind, and his contributions to military tactics and broader applications in business and complex systems thinking. The episode also includes a fascinating recount of Boyd's 1992 commencement speech at Strong Vincent High School, highlighting his philosophies on...2024-08-121h 09
No Way OutClean Slate: The Psychedelic Revolution in Healthcare with Maria VelkovaSend us a textMaria Velkova, managing partner of Tabula Rasa Ventures, discusses the use of psychedelics in therapy and the work her organization is doing to support the space. She explains that psychedelic-assisted therapy is a novel care delivery model that combines traditional therapy with the use of psychedelic medicines. Velkova emphasizes the efficacy of these therapies, particularly for veterans who have high unmet needs. She also discusses the history of psychedelics and the negative connotations associated with them, as well as the current shift towards acceptance and understanding. The conversation explores the impact of psychedelics...2024-08-091h 00