Shows
Being LiminalNavigating UncertaintyLiminality is about existing in transition, where uncertainty and ambiguity dominate. Innovation, at its core, is a liminal activity—organisations step away from established norms to explore new futures. But how comfortable are businesses with this uncertainty?In this episode, Richard Walzer joins us to discuss:* Why innovation is inherently liminal—leaving the known to explore possible futures* The pendulum swing of innovation—why businesses drift between embracing and resisting change* How future-back thinking can help leaders avoid stagnation* The tension between Perform (stability) and Transform (innovation) in organizations...
2025-03-041h 00Being LiminalNavigating UncertaintyLiminality is about existing in transition, where uncertainty and ambiguity dominate. Innovation, at its core, is a liminal activity—organisations step away from established norms to explore new futures. But how comfortable are businesses with this uncertainty?In this episode, Richard Walzer joins us to discuss:* Why innovation is inherently liminal—leaving the known to explore possible futures* The pendulum swing of innovation—why businesses drift between embracing and resisting change* How future-back thinking can help leaders avoid stagnation* The tension between Perform (stability) and Transform (innovation) in organizations...
2025-03-041h 00
Being LiminalLiminal Thoughts: Are We Sleepwalking into a Creative Crisis?A new format that we are trying out where one of us shares a shorter deep dive on a current topic - we are interested in your responses and thoughts on the topics in these shorter episodes and we will pick up on the topic together in our longer format sessions.In this episode of Being Liminal, I (Martin) explore the growing intersection of AI and creativity. The rise of AI-generated content is both fascinating and unsettling—offering new possibilities but also raising difficult questions about what it means to create, connect, and be human.On...
2025-02-1026 minBeing LiminalLiminal Thoughts: Are We Sleepwalking into a Creative Crisis?A new format that we are trying out where one of us shares a shorter deep dive on a current topic - we are interested in your responses and thoughts on the topics in these shorter episodes and we will pick up on the topic together in our longer format sessions.In this episode of Being Liminal, I (Martin) explore the growing intersection of AI and creativity. The rise of AI-generated content is both fascinating and unsettling—offering new possibilities but also raising difficult questions about what it means to create, connect, and be human.On...
2025-02-1026 min
Being LiminalLongwave Thinking – Thriving in Complex SystemsLongwave Thinking – Thriving in Complex SystemsPart 3 of 3 exploring three levels of disruption from Design Team to Wider SystemsIntroductionIn the final episode of our three-part series, we move beyond organisations to the broader systems that shape them. We discuss the extended cycles of disruption impacting society and business alike. From climate change to economic upheaval, we explore how leaders can adapt to and thrive in a world where uncertainty is the new normal.Key Takeaways• Limits vs. Limitless Growth: The clash between systemic sustainability and busi...
2024-12-2059 minBeing LiminalLongwave Thinking – Thriving in Complex SystemsLongwave Thinking – Thriving in Complex SystemsPart 3 of 3 exploring three levels of disruption from Design Team to Wider SystemsIntroductionIn the final episode of our three-part series, we move beyond organisations to the broader systems that shape them. We discuss the extended cycles of disruption impacting society and business alike. From climate change to economic upheaval, we explore how leaders can adapt to and thrive in a world where uncertainty is the new normal.Key Takeaways• Limits vs. Limitless Growth: The clash between systemic sustainability and busi...
2024-12-2059 min
Being LiminalNavigating Transformation – Organisational Blind SpotsNavigating Transformation – Organizational Blind SpotsPart 2 of 3 exploring three levels of disruption from Design Team to Wider SystemsIntroductionIn part two of our series, we zoom out to explore transformation at the organisational level. We discuss why businesses often repeat past mistakes, how continuous improvement and transformation intertwine, and the systemic blind spots that hinder meaningful change. If your organization struggles with delivering transformation that sticks, this episode is for you.Key Takeaways• Beyond Buzzwords: What transformation really means and how it differs from continuous improvement.
2024-12-1648 minBeing LiminalNavigating Transformation – Organisational Blind SpotsNavigating Transformation – Organizational Blind SpotsPart 2 of 3 exploring three levels of disruption from Design Team to Wider SystemsIntroductionIn part two of our series, we zoom out to explore transformation at the organisational level. We discuss why businesses often repeat past mistakes, how continuous improvement and transformation intertwine, and the systemic blind spots that hinder meaningful change. If your organization struggles with delivering transformation that sticks, this episode is for you.Key Takeaways• Beyond Buzzwords: What transformation really means and how it differs from continuous improvement.
2024-12-1648 min
Being LiminalDesign's Woes Are a Symptom of Larger Business ChallengesDesign's Woes Are a Symptom of Larger Business ChallengesPart 1 of 3 exploring three levels of disruption from Design Team to Wider SytemsIntroduction:In the first episode of this three-part series of Being Liminal, we begin at the team level, exploring why design often feels undervalued within organisations. We unpack how design’s challenges, from production-focused roles to mismatched values, reflect larger organisational struggles. If you’ve ever wondered why design sometimes feels like it’s stuck in a cycle of frustration, this episode is the perfect starting point.Key Takeaways:...
2024-12-0942 minBeing LiminalDesign's Woes Are a Symptom of Larger Business ChallengesDesign's Woes Are a Symptom of Larger Business ChallengesPart 1 of 3 exploring three levels of disruption from Design Team to Wider SytemsIntroduction:In the first episode of this three-part series of Being Liminal, we begin at the team level, exploring why design often feels undervalued within organisations. We unpack how design’s challenges, from production-focused roles to mismatched values, reflect larger organisational struggles. If you’ve ever wondered why design sometimes feels like it’s stuck in a cycle of frustration, this episode is the perfect starting point.Key Takeaways:...
2024-12-0942 min
Being LiminalJoe Macleod: Endineering - Designing EndsJoe Macleod: Endineering - Designing EndsThis episode was recorded at the end of 2023 just before we took a hiatus in publishing. It is as relevant now as it was then but you may find references to current events of 2023. Our apologies but we did have some sound issues which we weren’t able to rectify - it doesn’t alter the content but you will hear a few seeming glitches in the matrix :-)Introduction:In this episode of Being Liminal, we are joined by Joe Macleod, author of Ends and Endineering. Toge...
2024-12-051h 02Being LiminalJoe Macleod: Endineering - Designing EndsJoe Macleod: Endineering - Designing EndsThis episode was recorded at the end of 2023 just before we took a hiatus in publishing. It is as relevant now as it was then but you may find references to current events of 2023. Our apologies but we did have some sound issues which we weren’t able to rectify - it doesn’t alter the content but you will hear a few seeming glitches in the matrix :-)Introduction:In this episode of Being Liminal, we are joined by Joe Macleod, author of Ends and Endineering. Toge...
2024-12-051h 02
Being LiminalBen Reason: Embracing a Sense of Place, Edge Thinking and Systemic Change in the AnthropoceneBen Reason, one of the early pioneers of Service Design and co-founder of the boundary pushing agency Livework joins Martin and Brian for a thoughtful discussion on navigating the liminal spaces and the systemic changes that are shaping our world as we know it. Ben's thought-leadership on designing in the Anthropocene was the stimulus for recording this conversation but it builds on the work of many other thinkers in this space.We challenge the allure of scale, examining the benefits of diversity and decentralization over a singular homogeneous approach to moving society forward. Ben references the current state of d...
2023-11-281h 12Being LiminalBen Reason: Embracing a Sense of Place, Edge Thinking and Systemic Change in the AnthropoceneBen Reason, one of the early pioneers of Service Design and co-founder of the boundary pushing agency Livework joins Martin and Brian for a thoughtful discussion on navigating the liminal spaces and the systemic changes that are shaping our world as we know it. Ben's thought-leadership on designing in the Anthropocene was the stimulus for recording this conversation but it builds on the work of many other thinkers in this space.We challenge the allure of scale, examining the benefits of diversity and decentralization over a singular homogeneous approach to moving society forward. Ben references the current state of d...
2023-11-281h 12
Being LiminalBethany Jarroussié - Navigating change as a leader while supporting transformationIn this episode Brian and Martin are in conversation with Bethany Jarroussié. Bethany is on the design leadership team at BP and her career as a design leader has seen her take on distinctly non-design type activities. It's a conversation that covers, how, if we're honest about the nature of transformation, it can be very unpredictable, and with that comes a need to create psychological safety for teams. There are great examples of leaders who created the environments in which it's okay to learn while doing with the inevitable discomfort and at times crashes that can come with this. You'l...
2023-11-0757 minBeing LiminalBethany Jarroussié - Navigating change as a leader while supporting transformationIn this episode Brian and Martin are in conversation with Bethany Jarroussié. Bethany is on the design leadership team at BP and her career as a design leader has seen her take on distinctly non-design type activities. It's a conversation that covers, how, if we're honest about the nature of transformation, it can be very unpredictable, and with that comes a need to create psychological safety for teams. There are great examples of leaders who created the environments in which it's okay to learn while doing with the inevitable discomfort and at times crashes that can come with this. You'l...
2023-11-0757 min
Being LiminalOla Gwozdz: A Data Philosopher's perspective on Identity, Leadership, and ChangeIn this episode Brian and I are in conversation with Ola Gwozdz, a listener who reached out to share her perspective and we realised we just had to bring into our exploration. Ola helps us delve into the intricacies of identity, power dynamics, and the transformative potential of liminal spaces. She describes herself as a Data Philosopher, a concept and articulation I find fascinating – using data not just as raw information but a medium or lens to understand and interpret deeper societal and human issues, behaviours and global societal shifts. She philosophises about the implications, meanin...
2023-10-161h 02Being LiminalOla Gwozdz: A Data Philosopher's perspective on Identity, Leadership, and ChangeIn this episode Brian and I are in conversation with Ola Gwozdz, a listener who reached out to share her perspective and we realised we just had to bring into our exploration. Ola helps us delve into the intricacies of identity, power dynamics, and the transformative potential of liminal spaces. She describes herself as a Data Philosopher, a concept and articulation I find fascinating – using data not just as raw information but a medium or lens to understand and interpret deeper societal and human issues, behaviours and global societal shifts. She philosophises about the implications, meanin...
2023-10-161h 02
Being LiminalAndy Thornton: Navigating Change with Regenerative Design and LeadershipDo you ever wonder how your organization can embrace change and thrive in the face of uncertainty? Join us on a journey into the world of regenerative design and leadership with our guest, Andy Thornton, the Head of Regenerative Design at the RSA - The Royal Society of Arts, Commerce, and Manufacturing. We explore design and systems thinking, discuss the importance of courage in leadership, and peel back the layers of an ever-evolving organisational landscape. Andy's expertise paints a fresh and crucial perspective on these subject matters, which is pushing the boundaries of what Brian and I are exploring...
2023-09-231h 14Being LiminalAndy Thornton: Navigating Change with Regenerative Design and LeadershipDo you ever wonder how your organization can embrace change and thrive in the face of uncertainty? Join us on a journey into the world of regenerative design and leadership with our guest, Andy Thornton, the Head of Regenerative Design at the RSA - The Royal Society of Arts, Commerce, and Manufacturing. We explore design and systems thinking, discuss the importance of courage in leadership, and peel back the layers of an ever-evolving organisational landscape. Andy's expertise paints a fresh and crucial perspective on these subject matters, which is pushing the boundaries of what Brian and I are exploring...
2023-09-231h 14
Being LiminalLeaning into Liminality - Reflecting on a necessary Pivot with the Podcast"The One where Brian and Martin realise they haven't been very 'liminal' in their approach to researching liminality"In response to both Listener and Guest feedback as well as some of our own reflection on what we've learnt so far from our guests - this episode is a moment for us to reflect on our need to pivot our approach to the research and exploration that we are doing. We said we would do this in the open and part of that means recognising and leaning into when you might have been about to head off in the wrong di...
2023-09-0543 minBeing LiminalLeaning into Liminality - Reflecting on a necessary Pivot with the Podcast"The One where Brian and Martin realise they haven't been very 'liminal' in their approach to researching liminality"In response to both Listener and Guest feedback as well as some of our own reflection on what we've learnt so far from our guests - this episode is a moment for us to reflect on our need to pivot our approach to the research and exploration that we are doing. We said we would do this in the open and part of that means recognising and leaning into when you might have been about to head off in the wrong di...
2023-09-0543 min
Being LiminalClive Grinyer : The Future of Design Education as a Catalyst for Transformation in BusinessHow do you leverage a moment of potential transformation? How do you support fundamental change in an organisation that sees the need but doesn't know how to realise it? In our discussion with Professor Clive Grinyer, Head of Service Design at the Royal College of Art, we challenge the notion that organisations don't want to change and discuss how design can be a crucial catalyst for business transformation. We delve into the mindset gap that executive leadership are asking for help to bridge, and how the RCA is training service designers of the future to become the catalyst for c...
2023-08-0752 minBeing LiminalClive Grinyer : The Future of Design Education as a Catalyst for Transformation in BusinessHow do you leverage a moment of potential transformation? How do you support fundamental change in an organisation that sees the need but doesn't know how to realise it? In our discussion with Professor Clive Grinyer, Head of Service Design at the Royal College of Art, we challenge the notion that organisations don't want to change and discuss how design can be a crucial catalyst for business transformation. We delve into the mindset gap that executive leadership are asking for help to bridge, and how the RCA is training service designers of the future to become the catalyst for c...
2023-08-0752 min
Being LiminalCennydd Bowles: Decoding Ethical Challenges in Business TransformationWhat if you could transform your business while also putting ethics at the forefront? That's exactly what we tackle in our conversation with Cennydd Bowles, a designer and technologist turned ethicist, and author of Future Ethics. Cennydd sheds light on the importance of weaving ethics into the fabric of transformation and how ‘designed futures’ can help uncover potential harms. In an age where technology overwhelmingly shapes our experiences, we touch on the philosophical underpinnings of utilitarianism, deontology, and virtue ethics - and how these frameworks can guide our decision-making processes. We particularly discuss how AI and machine lear...
2023-07-171h 05Being LiminalCennydd Bowles: Decoding Ethical Challenges in Business TransformationWhat if you could transform your business while also putting ethics at the forefront? That's exactly what we tackle in our conversation with Cennydd Bowles, a designer and technologist turned ethicist, and author of Future Ethics. Cennydd sheds light on the importance of weaving ethics into the fabric of transformation and how ‘designed futures’ can help uncover potential harms. In an age where technology overwhelmingly shapes our experiences, we touch on the philosophical underpinnings of utilitarianism, deontology, and virtue ethics - and how these frameworks can guide our decision-making processes. We particularly discuss how AI and machine lear...
2023-07-171h 05
Being LiminalMaria Giudice - Unleashing the Changemaker Within: The role of Creativity in Leaders of Change & TransformationWhat if the superpowers needed to navigate today's complex world were already within us? That's what we discovered in our fascinating conversation with Maria Giudice, co-author of "Changemakers," as we discussed the evolving nature of leadership in business transformation and the innate qualities designers possess that make them powerful agents of change. Maria shares her insights on the importance of embracing change agency, risk-taking, intuition, systems thinking, and people-centered approaches to tackle the challenges of our increasingly complex world.We also explored the complexities of driving change in organizations that may not be prepared for it and the importance...
2023-06-251h 12Being LiminalMaria Giudice - Unleashing the Changemaker Within: The role of Creativity in Leaders of Change & TransformationWhat if the superpowers needed to navigate today's complex world were already within us? That's what we discovered in our fascinating conversation with Maria Giudice, co-author of "Changemakers," as we discussed the evolving nature of leadership in business transformation and the innate qualities designers possess that make them powerful agents of change. Maria shares her insights on the importance of embracing change agency, risk-taking, intuition, systems thinking, and people-centered approaches to tackle the challenges of our increasingly complex world.We also explored the complexities of driving change in organizations that may not be prepared for it and the importance...
2023-06-251h 12
Being LiminalDesigning Transformation: How ESG, Data, and Purpose are driving Business TransformationWhat does it take for businesses to adapt to the rapidly changing expectations on their role in society and what will it mean for how we Design, Build and Lead business of the future? In this first full episode of Liminal Leaders Brian & I dive right into ESG as an example of a force for change in the way business interpret their purpose in Society. We even dive back into histories of companies like Scottish Widows and Bank of Scotland, and their long-standing commitment to supporting their communities as examples of companies and industries that have deeper ro...
2023-06-041h 26
Being LiminalSheryl Cababa - Beyond Individual Use: Expanding Design Horizons with Systems ThinkingWhat if you could elevate your design skills by incorporating systems thinking? We had the pleasure of discussing this fascinating approach with the brilliant Sheryl Cababa, author of "Closing the Loop." Sheryl shares her expertise in design, research, and strategy, providing valuable insights into her journey as a design leader. Whether you are a design, product, technology or business leader - don't miss this opportunity to learn from Sheryl's vast experience in applying systems thinking to various contexts.In our conversation, we explore the role of designers as facilitators in systems thinking, drawing from Sheryl's work on projects like...
2023-06-041h 05Being LiminalDesigning Transformation: How ESG, Data, and Purpose are driving Business TransformationWhat does it take for businesses to adapt to the rapidly changing expectations on their role in society and what will it mean for how we Design, Build and Lead business of the future? In this first full episode of Liminal Leaders Brian & I dive right into ESG as an example of a force for change in the way business interpret their purpose in Society. We even dive back into histories of companies like Scottish Widows and Bank of Scotland, and their long-standing commitment to supporting their communities as examples of companies and industries that have deeper ro...
2023-06-041h 26Being LiminalSheryl Cababa - Beyond Individual Use: Expanding Design Horizons with Systems ThinkingWhat if you could elevate your design skills by incorporating systems thinking? We had the pleasure of discussing this fascinating approach with the brilliant Sheryl Cababa, author of "Closing the Loop." Sheryl shares her expertise in design, research, and strategy, providing valuable insights into her journey as a design leader. Whether you are a design, product, technology or business leader - don't miss this opportunity to learn from Sheryl's vast experience in applying systems thinking to various contexts.In our conversation, we explore the role of designers as facilitators in systems thinking, drawing from Sheryl's work on projects like...
2023-06-041h 05
Being LiminalAn Introduction to Being Liminal - Episode ZeroWelcome to Being Liminal -this short episode is an overview of what we're hoping to achieve with the podcast. Because we are also researching and writing a book through this podcast - Episode Zero will set the scene and theme for the episodes that follow which will jump around between topics as we conduct our research. We'd also really appreciate your initial thoughts, ideas and questions that come up from listening into this episode to help us shape our future guest list and discussions.Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in...
2023-06-0422 minBeing LiminalAn Introduction to Being Liminal - Episode ZeroWelcome to Being Liminal -this short episode is an overview of what we're hoping to achieve with the podcast. Because we are also researching and writing a book through this podcast - Episode Zero will set the scene and theme for the episodes that follow which will jump around between topics as we conduct our research. We'd also really appreciate your initial thoughts, ideas and questions that come up from listening into this episode to help us shape our future guest list and discussions.Being LiminalIs a podcast about the changing nature of Leadership in...
2023-06-0422 min
Business X DesignBrian Hoadley & Martin Dowson - Season 1 ReviewSeason 1 Final Episode - Martin & Brian Hoadley review the season.I've invited Brian Hoadley to return, having opened the season, and reflect back with me on 9 interviews with 9 very different Leaders of Design. All of our guests have led design in an in-house, large-scale complex environment and have brought with them some insightful perspectives on the role of Design and Design Leadership in its intersections with Business Leadership. In this review episode, Brian and I unpack what we've learnt across the whole Season and start to reflect on where we need to go n...
2022-04-111h 02Business X DesignBrian Hoadley - Earning a Seat for Design - but which table?My guest in this episode, Brian Hoadley, is an Interim Design Executive, currently a Design Transformation Director with SopraSteria and a seasoned builder and shaper of Design Capability. We caught up to discuss his recently published article about Design missing out on the many Tables it could be playing at while it worries about not reaching the top table. We discuss the subordination of Design into production alongside the necessity of production level design, the choices ahead of Designers as they progress through their career into leadership roles and the skills missing from some of the most Se...
2021-10-0458 min