Shows
No Way OutSun Tzu to AI: OODA Loop – Moral Conflict, Human Flourishing, or Dependency?Send us a textIn this profound episode of No Way Out, hosts Moose and Ponch sit down with Dr. Mihaela Ulieru – robotics pioneer, AI ethics advisor, and governance expert – for a mind-expanding conversation that bridges military strategy, morality, technology, and consciousness.Drawing from her Romanian roots and personal experiences during the 1989 Revolution, Dr. Mihaela explores how the OODA loop can either trap us in dependency or propel us toward true human flourishing. The discussion dives deep into the moral stack (morality, ethics, justice) needed to prevent system capture by "takers," the isolating effects of mode...
2025-12-171h 50
No Way OutBeyond the Linear OODA Loop: Jon Becker Breaks Down Authentic OODA LoopSend us a textExplore the authentic OODA loop with Jon Becker on No Way Out Podcast – John Boyd's strategies for tactical leadership and decision makingFresh off Mark “Moose” McGrath’s viral appearance on The Debrief (where the internet lost its mind over authentic OODA), we flip the script: Jon Becker — CEO of Aardvark Tactical and host of the top-rated tactical podcast The Debrief — comes to No Way Out for the highly requested return match.Together with co-hosts Mark McGrath and Brian “Ponch” Rivera, Jon pulls back the curtain on what...
2025-12-111h 05
No Way OutUnrestricted Decline: Debt, Inflation and The Road to Serfdom (w/ Max Borders)Send us a textWhat if the maps we’re all using are lying to us?In this episode we yank the curtain back and connect the dots most shows leave scattered: The “devouring mother” vs. “tyrannical father” archetypes now fighting for control of America’s soul How printed money and $38 trillion in debt quietly tax you every single day Why a household “poverty line” just hit $140k in parts of the country — and why almost nobody wants to admit it Healthcare’s textbook death spiral: community rating, third-party payer distortion, Medicare price floors, and the cartel that prof...
2025-12-081h 32
No Way OutFrom F-14 Tomcats to Toad Medicine: 1 Year Inside Ambio w/ Mark "Slider" KellerSend us a textConor McGregor just put ibogaine and Ambio on the map with 5M+ views in 24 hours. Former Navy "TOPGUN" Mark “Slider” Keller (now an Ambio host who has guided 250+ veterans and first responders through treatment) joins his old OCS roommate Ponch to pull back the curtain on what really happens during the 5-day ibogaine + 5-MeO-DMT program. No hype, no flowing robes—just raw stories of broken men walking in suicidal and leaving reborn. From sweat lodges to ego-death “toad” experiences, neurological resets, and why big tough dudes cry every single week. If you’ve ever wondere...
2025-11-241h 25
No Way OutNaval Power in Action with CAPT Brent Sadler, USN (Ret.)Send us a textPonch and Moose connect with Brent Sadler, a retired U.S. Navy Captain and Senior Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, discussing maritime strategy, U.S.-China relations, and naval power in the Indo-Pacific. Sadler reflects on his collaboration with Ponch at PACOM (now INDOPACOM) from 2012-2015, where they shifted from linear, phase-based planning to non-linear, adaptive approaches like complex adaptive systems and a "spectrum of rivalry" to counter China's hybrid threats. The conversation covers the ongoing "new Cold War" with China, which Sadler argues began post-Tiananmen Square in 1989 and en...
2025-10-171h 25
No Way OutAutism, Telepathy and New "Outside" Information with Dr. Julia MossbridgeSend us a textWhat if the key to unlocking human consciousness lies not in neurotypical experiences, but in the unique ways non-speaking autistic individuals perceive and interact with reality? In this captivating episode of No Way Out, host Brian "Ponch" Rivera welcomes cognitive neuroscientist, researcher, and spiritual seeker Julia Mossbridge, PhD, and special co-host Sarah Kernion, a mother of two non-speaking autistic children, for a profound exploration of awareness, precognition, and expanded human potential.Dr. Mossbridge shares insights from her pioneering research on precognition, demonstrating how scientific studies reveal that human physiology can anticipate...
2025-09-251h 06
No Way OutEntropy to OODA Loop: Neuroscience of Safety SystemsSend us a textEntropy to OODA Loop: How the Universe's Decay Drives Safety, Systems & Human PerformanceWhat if safety isn't about rules—but entropy? In this mind-bending Episode 120 of No Way Out, host Brian "Ponch" Rivera and guest Dr. David Slater (complex systems & safety expert, UK) trace safety from the Big Bang to brain control loops. Discover how John Boyd's OODA loop mirrors quasi-equilibrium states, why entropy shapes safety in F1 pit crews and aviation, and how neuroscience dismantifies "human error" as perceptual mismatch. Sla...
2025-07-091h 01
No Way OutDrones, Airspace, AI, and Decision Making: DroneUp CEO on Leading in ComplexitySend us a textWhen Tom Walker walked into a Best Buy and saw drone technology more advanced than the space shuttle selling for under $1,000, he knew aerial autonomous systems would fundamentally change society. What he couldn't have predicted was reconnecting with a former 13-96 OCS classmate decades later to discuss how military experience shapes innovation in the rapidly evolving drone industry.The stakes couldn't be higher. With over a million drones now flying in US airspace—outnumbering manned aircraft four to one—and that number projected to double by 2027, we face an unprecedented airspace inte...
2025-06-021h 04
No Way OutTop Gun Day Special: The Four Ps of OODASend us a textIn this electrifying No Way Out podcast episode, recorded on May 13, 2025—Top Gun Day—hosts Brian "Ponch" Rivera and Mark "Moose" McGrath dive into John Boyd’s OODA Loop through the "Four Ps of OODA": Perception, Pathfinding, Prediction, and Planning. Framed as a Top Gun Day Special, they clarify that while John Boyd, a former U.S. Air Force Top Gun instructor, developed the OODA Loop, it was not rooted in fighter aviation but emerged from his remarkable consilience, pulling from diverse disciplines including systems theory, natural science, philosophy, warfare, The Toyota P...
2025-05-1351 min
No Way OutAlan Green and The America Codes: We Are One (No Way Out Ep. 113)Send us a textDive into an electrifying episode of No Way Out that will leave you questioning everything you thought you knew about America’s founding—and the very fabric of reality itself. Host Ponch and veteran co-host Bart welcome Alan Green, a polymath whose 20-year journey decoding Shakespeare’s secrets has unearthed a mind-bending revelation: the America Codes, hidden within the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. This isn’t just history—it’s a cosmic puzzle that ties sacred geometry, ancient pyramids, and the unity of humanity into a narrative...
2025-03-262h 30
No Way OutThe Wayback Mission: Mark Graham on Preserving the Past with the Internet ArchiveSend us a textUnlock the secrets of the past and secure the future with No Way Out! Hosts Moose and Ponch dive into the digital frontier with Mark Graham, a veteran of the U.S. Air Force and a key figure at the Internet Archive, a nonprofit founded by Brewster Kahle in 1996 to preserve the web and humanity’s published works. Often called a modern-day Library of Alexandria, the Internet Archive has grown from its early days of recording the web to archiving treasures like Grateful Dead bootlegs and Pentagon news clippings. This episode explores the ch...
2025-03-0350 min
No Way OutThe AI Edge: Why OODA, Cybernetics, and Neuroscience Matter with Sean ManionSend us a textIn this timely episode of No Way Out, neuroscientist and systems thinker Sean Manion joins Ponch and Mark to explore the untapped potential of the OODA Loop beyond its military origins. Sean brings over 25 years of experience in neuroscience, clinical research, and health technology to an expansive discussion that redefines the OODA Loop through the lens of natural sciences, cybernetics, complexity theory, and neuroscience.The conversation dives into how the OODA Loop’s foundation in feedback systems aligns with modern advances in...
2025-01-271h 23
No Way OutDitch Outsourced Thinking: Unleash the Power of Red Teaming w/ Dimbleby & CorellaSend us a textPonch, Jose, and Marcus discuss the critical importance of internal capability within organizations, the dangers of outsourcing thinking, and the transformative power of Red Teaming. They explore the role of the chief of staff in driving change, the necessity of training and development, and the challenges faced in agile transformations. The discussion also touches on mental health in leadership and the need for a holistic approach to organizational change, emphasizing the importance of relationships and empowerment in fostering a thriving workplace culture.Learn how to cultivate a culture of openness and...
2024-11-121h 18
No Way OutHow Fat Leonard Breached the Navy's OODA Loop with Tom WrightSend us a textIn this episode of No Way Out, investigative journalist Tom Wright joins us to dissect the infamous Fat Leonard scandal, a dark chapter in U.S. Navy history where corruption, manipulation, and ethical breaches were exposed on a massive scale. Leonard Francis, the Malaysian contractor at the heart of the scandal, exploited systemic weaknesses in Navy operations, unraveling how deep-rooted issues in military culture can jeopardize national security.Tom Wright, Ponch (a retired Navy captain), and Mark McGrath (a former Marine Corps captain) explore the challenges whistleblowers faced, the struggles of N...
2024-10-231h 12
No Way OutMastering the Medium with Andrew McLuhanSend us a textWhat happens when you blend the strategic brilliance of John Boyd with the transformative media insights of Marshall McLuhan? We promise you'll gain a fresh perspective on decision-making and media effects. This episode features an enlightening conversation with Andrew McLuhan, who shares the legacy of his grandfather, Marshall McLuhan, while exploring the powerful synergy between Boyd’s OODA “loop” sketch and the groundbreaking theories of media as “extensions of man.” Our discussion offers a deeper understanding of how these two thinkers complement each other, especially in the realm of cognitive science and the practical...
2024-10-091h 23
No Way OutMarket VUCA: Reorienting in the New World Economy with Philippe GijselsSend us a textPhilippe Gijsels, Chief Strategy Officer, BNP Paribas Fortis joins Moose and Ponch on this episode of No Way Out. The conversation explores the concept of volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity (VUCA) and how it relates to investing and trend following. The analogy of surfing waves is used to describe the approach to navigating these challenges. The importance of having a disciplined approach and following objective rules is emphasized. The discussion also touches on the changing dynamics of the market, the need for adaptive strategies, and the influence of human behavior on...
2024-09-031h 14
No Way OutBrainTap: Brainwaves, Technology & Flow with Patrick Porter, PhDSend us a text"Ponch" and special co-host Mark "Slider" Keller travel to New Bern, North Carolina, to sit down with Dr. Patrick Porter to discuss brainwaves, technology, and flow.This episode delves deep into how BrainTap transcends traditional meditation practices, promising users a route to optimize their psychological well-being and achieve peak performance. Dr. Porter discusses the device's potential in enhancing mental health, particularly in the preparatory and integration phases of psychedelic-assisted therapies.The conversation illuminates how BrainTap leverages light and sound frequencies to harmonize brainwave activity, leading to significant improvements in...
2024-05-071h 46
No Way OutCommand and Control Systems with S. Anders ChristenssonSend us a textThis conversation explores the concepts and principles of command and control, building upon the work of John Boyd. The guest, S Anders Christensson, discusses the dynamic OODA loop and the design hierarchy in command and control systems. He emphasizes the human-centered nature of command and control, highlighting the importance of understanding the purpose, design criteria, and functions of the system. The conversation also explores the challenges of modeling and simulating complex systems, the role of artificial intelligence in command and control, and the need for agility and continuous learning in adapting to changing e...
2024-04-2351 min
No Way OutFlaws and f-Laws of "TOPGUN" Thinking with Whiz, Ponch, and GarethSend us a textWhat do Top Guns get wrong about leading in complexity.? What do they get right?The conversation explores some common flaws of “TOPGUN” thinking—those bounded lessons borrowed from the cockpit and applied as gospel by business leaders—and the uncomfortable truths TOPGUNs know about business, leadership, life and teamwork. Three former “TOPGUNs” turned business consultants and authors challenge established practices often preached by former military consultants to include closing the execution gap, the limitations of the Swiss cheese model in complex environments, and the overuse of checklists.Throughout...
2024-01-231h 16
No Way OutTheory of Constraints: Flow, TPS and Boyd's OODA Loop with Steve Holt | Ep 53Send us a textWhat influence did the U.S. Navy Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN) in the 1970s have on John Boyd’s thinking? This was the question Steve Holt, a Technical Fellow at Boeing, and Ponch were discussing before they decided to record their conversation. This episode picks up as Steve and Ponch agree that the TOPGUN-Boyd story captured in Dan Pederson’s book, TOPGUN provides some insights on Boyd's closed to open system journey. Together, Steve and Ponch explore how Boyd’s pioneering E-M Theory altered the landscape of aircraft design, while brushing up agai...
2023-11-021h 14
No Way OutThe Triple Helix of Flow: The Flow System Playbook with John Turner, PhD and Nigel Thurlow | Ep 51Send us a textEver wondered how to bridge the gap between theory and practice when dealing with complex problems in your organization? Are you searching for practical and evidence based solutions that address human factors, human performance, and mental health? As we discuss the upcoming Flow System Playbook, set to release in November, we take you on a deep dive into the evidence-based approach of the Flow System. We highlight the importance of comprehending how to apply the methods and techniques to your unique context. The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we, Ponch, Pr...
2023-10-241h 03
No Way OutBefriending Complexity: Agile, Flow, and the Art of Wayfinding with Sonja BlignautSend us a textFrom Lisbon, Portugal, Brian "Ponch" Rivera sits down with Sonja Blignaut to discuss her upcoming talk at the World Agility Forum. Sonja shares her process of preparing for the talk and the challenges of navigating complexity in the Agile world. They also delve into the importance of embracing complexity instead of viewing it as a problem to be solved. Sonja shares her insights from her visit to the John Boyd archives and how it has influenced her understanding of perception and wayfinding. Sonja is the founder of More Beyond...
2023-09-2439 min
No Way OutUnlocking Your Potential: Harnessing the Power of Barbell Training with the Starting Strength System with Pete Yeh | Ep 31Send us a textImagine being able to harness your strength like never before, not only physically, but mentally and emotionally as well. Today, we take you on a transformative journey through the world of strength and its profound implications on our lives. This illuminating discussion with Pete Yeh, owner of Starting Strength Columbus, delves into the often-underestimated power of strength training and how it can redefine our capacity for free and independent action.We challenge conventional thinking and introduce the Starting Strength approach, a game-changer that simplifies complexity and empowers everyone, regardless of age...
2023-07-111h 21No Way OutCreating Investment Mismatches and Embracing Economic Uncertainties with Taylor Pearson | Ep 30Send us a textEver wondered how to navigate the complexities of management, company building, and investing in a world that seems to be changing at breakneck speed? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Taylor Pearson, where we'll uncover how to apply John Boyd's OODA Loop in turbulent markets. From Austin's booming tech scene to the Global Financial Crisis, we'll explore the fascinating journey that led Taylor to discover Boyd's work and create a 70-page guide that helps newcomers grasp the concept of the OODA Loop.Together with Taylor, we'll delve into the work o...
2023-07-051h 01No Way OutThe Story Behind "No Way Out" with Ponch Rivera and Mark McGrath | Ep 29Send us a textHave you ever wondered where the name No Way Out comes from? After months of anticipation, we reveal the intriguing story behind our podcast's title. Join us as we share our unforgettable adventure through the John Boyd archives, where we stumbled upon a brief called No Way Out – the working title of one of Boyd's most significant works, Conceptual Spiral.In this captivating episode, we discuss the importance of Boyd's theories and the vital lessons we can learn from them. With themes like uncertainty, entropy, an...
2023-06-2710 minNo Way OutInnovating with Boyd: Exploring the OODA Loop and Overcoming Obstructionists for Transformation and Growth with Kuan Collins, PhD | Ep 28Send us a textWhat happens when we explore the fascinating world of John Boyd's methodology and the impact his OODA loop has had on managing programs, teams, and decision-making? Join us in an insightful conversation with Dr. Kuan Collins as we uncover the secrets of Boyd's work and how it has influenced her life and career. From discovering Boyd's handwritten notes in bookstores to discussing his marked-up copy of Warfighting and his paper Destruction and Creation, this episode is a treasure trove of wisdom.We also dive into the five obstructionists that...
2023-06-211h 24