Shows
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicFire Acquired: Shiny Happy People (ft. Krispin Mayfield)In season two of Shiny Happy People, the Amazon Prime Original docu-series turns its focus to Teen Mania Ministries, the organization that made Acquire The Fire stadium events. These events are described in the series as "youth group Coachella." But Christian music was just the tip of the iceberg with Teen Mania. To unpack the series, Andrew is joined by Krispin Mayfield, a fellow podcaster and licensed therapist who specializes in helping people with religious trauma. Learn more about Krispin at krispinmayfield.com and his current podcast project, Strongwilled, at Substack: strongwilled.substack.comDo...2025-08-0653 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicCornerstone, Communes and Chicago Blues (ft. Glenn Kaiser)Glenn Kaiser has had a huge influence on Christian music as a musician, a festival co-founder and an outspoken thought leader. He was our top guest choice for our live taping in January of 2025 in Chicago.While Glenn Kaiser is a singular figure in the world of Christian music, we are aware that Jesus People USA is a triggering topic for some listeners. For a more thorough examination of Jesus People USA check out the book Grey Sabbath or for the perspective of abuse survivors from JPUSA, the film No Place To Call Home.This...2025-07-301h 19Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicThe Deconstructed Memelord Theologian (ft. Mason Mennenga)Mason Mennenga is really good at social media. You've probably seen his posts about evangelical culture, Christian music or VeggieTales. But he does a lot more than just that. He hosts two podcasts: A People's Theology and The BlackSheep Podcast. He has a YouTube channel. He writes academic papers on music. And he works in the admissions office of a seminary. His social media bio was once "Skillet's Wario" and last year he interviewed the lead singer of Skillet. We were excited to talk with the internet's crass youth pastor earlier this year. Do you have a Ch...2025-07-2352 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicGone Fishin'No new episode this week. Be back next Wednesday. Check our Patreon for some bonus content if you're interested. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdrIf you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.You can connect with us on Ins...2025-07-1601 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicGiving Up Your Band For God (ft. Josh Caterer of Smoking Popes)In 1998 it seemed like Josh Caterer had it made. His band, Smoking Popes, had three critically acclaimed albums out. They were signed to Capitol Records. He had married his high school sweetheart. But Josh had also just become a Christian and couldn't reconcile his rock band life with his new evangelical life. So he quit the band. On today's episode hosts Andrew Gill and Dr. Leah Payne talk with Josh Caterer about that decision, how the band got back together, their new album, Lovely Stuff, and their new single, "Allegiance." Do you have a Christian ro...2025-07-0952 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicChristian Music on the Hot 100In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worship music on new Christian pop music, differences in religious culture in the UK versus the US, the role of social media in spreading singles by Brandon Lake and Forrest...2025-07-0248 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicRuss Taff and Steve TaylorThis week on the show it's legends only: Russ Taff and Steve Taylor. They collaborated on Russ' new album, "Cover Story," but both have long and distinctive careers in the Christian music industry. Russ Taff became lead singer of The Imperials in 1976, started his solo career in 1983, earning two Grammys and many Dove awards. He was one of the industry's biggest solo male stars, but his most beloved songs are Pentecostal worship songs that connect all the way back to his childhood. Over the years he has dealt with alcoholism off and on, though he is beloved a...2025-06-251h 03Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicAccountability for Michael Tait (DC Talk, Newsboys) and Sean Feucht (ft. Kelsey Kramer McGinnis)Michael Tait, most recently lead singer of The Newsboys and also well known as one third of DC Talk, confessed to accusations of sexual assault and drug abuse on June 10, 2025. This came after deeply reported investigations into his behavior were published first by The Roys Report and then by The Guardian. The day before this news broke, whistleblowers accused the worship leader best known for right wing political agitation, Sean Feucht, of financial misappropriation and spiritually coercive leadership tactics. Hosts Leah Payne and Andrew Gill discuss the two scandals and what each of these figures me...2025-06-181h 16
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicLo! A Christmas Special!Buy tickets for our live show in Chicago on January 5!It's the second annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards!Listen to find out what awards Amy Grant, Sarah Masen, Carman, Stryper and David Meece won this year.Do you have a song that deserves an award? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdrYou can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.co...2024-12-2045 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicThe Art House (ft. Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth)Charlie Peacock is a renowned figure in the music industry for his solo albums, production work, songwriting and his record label RE:Think, which launched Switchfoot and Sarah Mason. Outside of the music industry spotlight he and his wife Andi Ashworth were creating a very unique space in Nashville called The Art House. Their experiences with The Art House inspired their recent book, "Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt." Leah actually worked at The Art House more than 20 years ago, so we were eager to talk w...2024-11-0230 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicYouth Group Demon Hunting (ft. Jordan Morris)Jordan Morris is a long time podcaster, comedy writer and creator and co-writer of the two-time Eisner-nominated graphic novel Bubble (based on the hit podcast). His new graphic novel, co-written with artist Bowen McCurdy is Youth Group. It draws on Jordan's real life experiences in a Orange County California youth groups in the 1990s, but adds literal demon hunting to the list of church-approved activities. In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about Christian summer camp and we share ideas for casting a film adaptation of Youth Group.Do you h...2024-10-1649 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicBookstore Guy to Exvangelical (ft. Blake Chastain)In this bonus episode Leah and Andrew talk with Blake Chastain, the first person to use "exvangelical" as a hashtag (and host of the Exvangelical podcast) about his book, "Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement That's Fighting Back." He shares about his time as a "bookstore guy" and how the academic concepts of "counter public" and "hyperobject" are helpful in understanding what's happening in American evangelicalism. In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about a song that left him temporarily paralyzed at work once. Plus we discuss n...2024-09-1141 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicChristian Ska's Upbeats and Beatdowns (ft. Leanor Ortega Till of Five Iron Frenzy)If there's one music genre lampooned more than Christian rock, it might just be ska. And Christian ska? Expect next level ridicule. But a lovable band of misfits from Denver, Colorado managed to do something that might seem unthinkable: combine two maligned genres and become a cultural phenomenon with an enduring cult following. On the season two finale of Rock that Doesn't Roll, music journalist Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the unlikely rise of Five Iron Frenzy, with insight from Leanor Ortega...2024-08-1438 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicYellow and Black Attack (ft. Michael Sweet of Stryper and Mike Tramp of White Lion)Picture this. It's 1986. The Cold War is at a fever pitch. The whole world is locked into a conflict between the Forces of Freedom, and the Commies... at least that's how it felt to 80s kids. But the Cold War wasn't the only threat facing American society. Many feared that a much more sinister enemy lurking in the shadows: the devil himself. During the so-called satanic panic, parents worried that their kids would get caught by the Lord of Darkness, and rock - specifically heavy metal from notoriously debauched bands like Motley Crüe - was a big threat. W...2024-07-3139 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicFictional Christian Music (ft. Righteous Gemstones' Joseph Stephens, Daniel Smith and Chris White)How do you make fake Contemporary Christian Music? Creating fictional Christian music that feels authentic without crossing the line into parody or pastiche is a tricky artistic challenge. But we found the creators up to the task. Joseph Stephens, composer for HBO's The Righteous Gemstones, a crime-comedy about a family of musical televangelists, and composer Daniel Smith (Danielson) and filmmaker Chris White of Electric Jesus, an independent film about an aspiring 80s Christian metal band, pay homage to Christian music makers of the past and create catchy Christian music that's feels and sounds an awful lot like the real...2024-07-1740 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicThe ParadoxKUOW's podcast Let The Kids Dance! is the story of Seattle's Teen Dance Ordinance in a seven-part docuseries chronicling an untold chapter of pop-culture history. It’s a story about moral panic, grassroots activism and an unstoppable music community that fought for its freedom, created and hosted by Jonathan Zwickel.The TDO made it impossible for venue owners to turn a profit while hosting all-ages shows. But the law contained a few exceptions, allowing concerts at nonprofit spaces and religious institutions. Savvy promoters take full advantage. In the latter half of the 90s, two all-ages venues sent a...2024-07-0345 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicThe DC Talk Test (ft. Jason Kirk and Kevin T. Porter)What happened to the kids raised during the peak era of Christian rock? For insight into the state of Christian rock's late 1990s-early aughts evangelicalism you need not look any further than members of DC Talk, the pinnacle of youth group music. Their trajectory as artists and public figures roughly maps on to the trajectories of the millions of teens raised in American evangelicalism. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions) surprises historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) with a fan-made quiz that asks: are you a...2024-06-1940 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicPurity Bros (ft. Joshua Harris)Purity culture wasn’t just for youth group “purity girls.” “Purity bros” were also a part of the project! No one knows that more than Joshua Harris, a CCM fan who helped turn purity culture into an extreme sport. Together with his friend, Christian music superstar Rebecca St. James, they created media that inspired a generation of evangelicals to say no to sex outside of marriage, but also to things like dating, kissing, holding hands, and a lot of other things. In this episode, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to Yo...2024-06-0538 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicPurity Girls (ft. Nikki Leonti)In 2001, teen singing sensation Nikki Leonti was on her way to a promising Christian music career. She had two hit CCM records, and - as a pop princess who swore to refrain from premarital sex - the support of big evangelical media organizations like James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. But then, at age 18, the “purity girl” Leonti announced she was pregnant, and lost it all. With insight from author and podcaster Devi Abraham, journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) explor...2024-05-2239 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicHoly Hip Hop (ft. Soup The Chemist)In the 1990s, music critics argue that hip hop was in its golden age. Mainstream Top 40 charts were filled with hits from The Notorious B.I.G, Tupac Shakur, and Dr. Dre. But the Contemporary Christian charts lagged far, far behind. What took so long for holy hip hop to take off? With insight from Dr. Jonathan Calvillo (author of In the Time of Sky-Rhyming: How Hip Hop Resonated in Brown Los Angeles), journalist and producer Andrew Gill (Sound Opinions), and historian Leah Payne (God Gave Rock and Roll to You: a History of Contemporary Christian Music) follow the st...2024-05-0840 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicUndo Me (ft. Jennifer Knapp)In 1999, singer-songwriter Jennifer Knapp was at the top of the Christian music world. Her debut album Kansas was gold-certified, she'd won four Gospel Music Association Dove Awards, and she was on tour with some of the top bands in the business. It seemed like Knapp was destined to be the ultimate rockstar poster child for evangelical teens - especially young women. But that frame was an uncomfortable fit for Knapp. She was an adult convert, and the evangelical norms that young women learned from the world of CCM were new to her. Eventually, at the height of her fame, Jennifer moved across...2024-04-2440 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicSeason Two TrailerIn the second season of Rock That Doesn't Roll, hosts Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill look at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now. Topics covered in season two include hip hop, feminism, purity culture, hair metal and more. Episodes publish every other week starting on April 24.
Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr
You can connect with us on...2024-04-1702 min
Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicIt's Christmastime! CCM Christmas Music Awards from Rock That Doesn't Roll‘Tis the season for holiday specials and Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock and Roll to You) of Rock that Doesn’t Roll are bringing you a surprise holiday gift: weirdly specific awards for Contemporary Christian Music Christmas tunes! So come on, ring those bells, grab your Christmas shoes, and get ready to Yo-Ho-Ho yourself into some holiday cheer - it’s Christmastime!
Do you have a CCM Christmas story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.
If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can ...2023-12-2128 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music"Be The Billy of Your Actual Hills" (ft. Pedro The Lion)For 1990s and early aughts youth group alumni, Christian rock is often the source of embarrassment or shame - but does it have to be that way? The season finale of Rock That Doesn't Roll explores the idea that maybe, just maybe, the key to getting over angst about Christian rock isn't rejecting it or avoiding it, but coming to peace with the person you were when you fell in love with it. With insight from historian Randall J. Stephens (author, The Devil's Music), hosts Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock & Roll to You...2023-12-1356 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicNot A Christian Band (ft. Switchfoot)The late 90s and early aughts were a banner time for a really specific type of rock band - the are-they-or-aren't-they a Christian band, band. Sixpence None the Richer. Creed. Evanescence. Lifehouse. Owl City. Paramore. They all had different sounds, but they left listeners wondering: are they - or aren't they - “Christian music?” This week on Rock that Doesn't Roll: does an artist who identifies as Christian have to brand their music as such? With insight from David Dark (author, We Become What We Normalize), hosts Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock & Roll...2023-11-2951 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicBookstore GuysWho could a 1990s Christian rock aficionado turn to in order to find the latest and greatest releases? For mainstream music fans, tastemakers included record store clerks of 1990s indie music stores, or retail juggernauts like Tower Records and Wherehouse - the kind of superfans depicted by Jack Black in High Fidelity. But for many evangelical teens of the 1990s, record stores were not the place to find kid-tested, parent-approved music. For that, Christian teens usually had to go to Christian bookstores. There, among the Bibles and Precious Moments dolls and Christian-themed t-shirts, they found the records that defined...2023-11-1548 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicChristian Rockstar DreamsFor every 1990s Christian rock star who made it big, there were thousands of never-realized, would-be Christian rock dreams. With special insight from Christian music industry veteran promoter Chris Hauser, hosts Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock and Roll to You) follow the CCM aspirations of comedian Kevin James Thornton and artist/faith leader Sunia Won Gibbs. The two Christian music fans hoped to find stardom and a sense of the divine, but found many trials and travails awaited those who took the stage as evangelical pop stars. Along the way, Sunia and...2023-11-0151 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicPunk Rock ProphetsFor 1990s evangelical teens, punk, hardcore, and ska were a gateway to a passionate, edgy way to express their Christianity outside the mainstream. But was the music and the message enough to keep the evangelical faith? In episode two, hosts Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock and Roll to You) follow three Christian punk rock stories from Dr. Bradley Onishi of Axis Mundi Media, author D.L. Mayfield, and Tim Whitaker of The New Evangelicals as they share their stories of loving, leaving, or holding on to evangelical Christianity - and the music...2023-10-1842 minRock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian MusicYouth Group KidsChristian rock has a lot of naysayers, but for evangelical teens of the 1990s, it was EVERYTHING. For most kids raised in conservative Christian households, mainstream music was forbidden - if teens were going to rock, they needed to do it God’s way. And the place to find Christian rock gods? Youth group.
In the first episode of Rock that Doesn’t Roll, hosts Andrew Gill (producer, Sound Opinions) and Leah Payne (author, God Gave Rock and Roll to You) talk with comedian Steve Hernandez and author Tyler Huckabee finding music, meaning, and identity in 1990s yout...2023-10-0444 min