Shows
Deviate with Rolf PottsBefore Sunrise (redo), with Kim Krizan"Time spent traveling on trains, just staring out the window: I don't think that's lost time. That's when we have our best ideas." –Kim Krizan
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki introduce their interview with Kim Krizan by talking about their own personal love of the movie Before Sunrise, and how they first experienced it (0:30); Kim talks about her early travel experiences in Czechoslovakia as a teenager, and in England in her twenties (14:30); how the low-information technological moment of travel in the 1990s doesn't exist anymore in the 2020s (23:30); how Kim became involved with helping Richa...2025-05-2057 minDeviate with Rolf PottsBefore Sunrise, with screenwriter Kim Krizan"Time spent traveling on trains, just staring out the window: I don't think that's lost time. That's when we have our best ideas." –Kim Krizan
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki introduce their interview with Kim Krizan by talking about their own personal love of the movie Before Sunrise, and how they first experienced it (0:30); Kim talks about her early travel experiences in Czechoslovakia as a teenager, and in England in her twenties (14:30); how the low-information technological moment of travel in the 1990s doesn't exist anymore in the 2020s (23:30); how Kim became involved with helping Ric...2025-05-1657 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsThe curious ethics of slum tourism“Travel does not require leaving your city or state or country, but it does require leaving your comfort zone. And that can happen a block or two away from where you live.”
–Chloe Cooper Jones
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chloe talk about why a section about “slum tourism” was cut out of Rolf’s newest book The Vagabond’s Way (2:30); how so much of what we talk about when we talk about travel has industrialized middle-class presumptions (7:30); the motivations and ethical considerations that underpin seeking out disadvantaged neighborhoods as a traveler (15:00); how preconceived narratives and “cultural ex...2025-04-0156 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow to Travel the World on $75 a Day“The most difficult part about traveling the world isn’t actually the logistics of a trip—it’s finding the courage to go in the first place.” —Matt Kepnes
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about how his travel style has changed over the years, and how fears affect people’s travels (1:00); strategies for saving money on the road (10:30); and strategies for finding activities on the road, and where to start a long-term journey (19:30).
Matt Kepnes (@nomadicmatt), commonly known as “Nomadic Matt,” is a travel blogger and the New York Times bestselling author of Travel the Wo...2025-03-2528 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsPico Iyer on the Super Bowl“My life has often forced me to follow the Super Bowl in unusual circumstances. The first Super Bowl found me in boarding school in England, huddled under my bedclothes with an illegal transistor radio.” –Pico Iyer
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico talk about the novelty of two travel writers talking about the Super Bowl, and Pico’s NFL fandom (4:00); how sports can be a therapeutic diversion from the more serious aspects of life, and which players are Rolf and Pico’s all-time favorites (13:00); Pico and Rolf’s old articles for Sports Illustrated, and how narratives att...2025-01-3138 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsPico Iyer on silence, stillness, and travel“In solitude, I often feel closer to the people I care for than when they’re in the same room.” –Pico Iyer
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pico talk about how the best travels are often counterbalanced with a kind of stillness, in which one can find one’s “best self” (3:00); Pico’s decades-long experiences with monks in a California monastery, the benefits of a “childlike attitude” toward life, and how “fire” can be a metaphor for spiritual life (12:00); how Pico’s solitude is informed by, and in conversation with, nature (22:00); Pico’s engaged relationship with spiritual communities, e...2025-01-1455 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsExploring Syria, with Ari Shaffir“Syria is a mix of everything. There are multiple Christian cultures, multiple Muslim cultures, and multiple languages. It’s the crossroads of the world. It made for some of my best travel memories from that time of my life.” —Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate (which was remixed from an episode of Ari Shaffir’s You Be Trippin’ podcast), Rolf and Ari talk about when and why Rolf traveled to Syria back in the day, and what it was like when he got there (3:30); his experience in staying in a Christian monastery in the mountains outside of Damascus...2024-12-311h 23
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow to hybrid-publish a travel book“In El Salvador, I dropped $5 out of my pocket at the border, and some guy came running up to me. At the beginning of the trip I would have been surprised by that. But by that point I would have been surprised if it didn’t happen.” —Matt Savino
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about how the first version of his travel book was way too long, and what he ended up editing out (6:00); the origins of Matt’s Central America road trip, why he ended up turning it into a book, and how he ende...2024-12-101h 01
Traveling with AAA5 Tips for Choosing Great Souvenirs with Rolf PottsSouvenirs are more than objects. They’re how we jog our memories to reflect on the experiences we’ve had exploring the world. They are also thoughtful gestures that let people back home know they are important.That’s why selecting souvenirs can be considered an art form. Sometimes, it’s as simple as buying a kitschy shot glass or tea towel. Other times, the objects we choose might hold deeper significance. Knowing how to select the best keepsakes at the right moment for the intended recipient takes experience. Today, Angi...2024-11-1309 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow nomads and influencers have changed Bali“Influencers are forever reinforcing the same images. They’re spending no time in the actual place, other than the requisite time to take the photo. From the local community’s point of view, these kinds of tourists bring very little value.” –Stuart McDonald
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stuart talk about why Stuart chose to make his office in West Bali, and why South Bali has developed something of a bad reputation in terms of over-tourism (2:30); the mythos of Bali, how it became a “dreamscape” in the Western consciousness, and how it has changed in recent years (6...2024-11-1238 minTraveling with AAATravel Souvenirs with Rolf PottsHolding on to the memories of the places we travel through souvenirs is an act of preservation. They are the physical manifestations of our travel experiences captured through the things we buy, collect, and even photograph, along the way. Souvenirs are meaningful not only for ourselves but they’re also a way of sharing those stories with others when we return home.Today, Angie Orth welcomes travel writer Rolf Potts. He has reported from more than seventy countries and six continents for publications including National Geographic Traveler, The New Yor...2024-11-0621 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsWhat makes a bad tourist“We’re having less enjoyable travel experiences, even as our photos show us having this amazing time, because we’re performing a version of travel for people who aren’t even there.”
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about the time-honored practice of Americans pretending to be Canadian on the road, and why Americans at times have had a bad reputation abroad (2:30); strategies for avoiding becoming an “Ugly American” on the road (11:00); how a fixation with comfort can get in the way of life-enriching experiences on the road (18:30); how rituals like tipping, interacting with children, or ch...2024-10-2245 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsLong-term family travel“The parent’s job as teacher on the road is to just create surface area between your kid and yourself and the world.” –Julie Frieder
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Julie talk about what a “Wonder Year” is, how she got involved with family travel, and why traveling with children is possible and enriching for everyone involved (1:30); how to get started planning a family vagabonding journey, where to go, how long to go, how to save money, and why travel is good for your mental health (14:00); how to involve your kids in planning a travel journey, why b...2024-06-1153 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow Rolf Ruined the 1990s (a memoir in grunge)“Look at any photo from a moment of supposed zeitgeist in American history, and it will be clear that not everyone in that moment represented the cutting-edge of culture.”
–Rolf Potts
In this essay episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about why he enjoys listening to Rob Harvilla’s podcast 60 Songs That Explain the ’90s at double-speed, but that he’s disappointed Rob has never alluded to Rolf’s own 1990s grunge band, Swizzlefish (1:45); Rolf describes his move from Kansas to the Pacific Northwest in the year 1990, at a very specific moment in America’s cultural zeitgeist (10:30); the origins of Swizz...2024-05-141h 19
Deviate with Rolf PottsAndrew McCarthy on telling travel stories“We ‘massage’ the truth to make it fit the narrative we need it to fit in our lives.” –Andrew McCarthy
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about how Andrew got started in travel writing, and how writing himself on the page helped him see himself in the world (2:30); when he does and doesn’t conflate certain details in the interest of a good story, and how he balances the “micro” and the “macro” elements of a travel story (12:30); how he decides who to write about, among the many people he meets on the road, which details do and d...2024-03-1258 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTaking "microadventures" close to home“Unless we explore our neighborhood, we can’t imagine what might be right under our noses, nor be able to celebrate it, mourn its demise, or take action.” –Alastair Humphreys
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Alastair Humphreys discuss the concept of his new book Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wilderness (1:30); what Alastair found on his close-to-home adventures in England (7:00); the surprises he found in industrial and post-industrial environments (13:00); how he learned to pay better attention to the natural environment in the areas he explored (19:30); “rights of access,” and how it affects hiking in Europe; and the...2024-02-1357 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTim Ferriss on achievement v. appreciation“Billionaires can’t take a week off? What’s the point of having a billion dollars if they have fewer options than I do?” –Tim Ferriss
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim discuss common travel fantasies, and the fears that keep people from traveling (5:00); how we can redefine what “wealth” is and live fuller lives (18:00); why keeping a healthy perspective on information intake, technology, and “efficiency” is important, both on the road and in daily life (25:00); the “beginner’s mind,” and tips for writing and creativity (54:00); the merits of going on foot and “getting lost” on the road, and how this figur...2024-01-092h 08
Deviate with Rolf PottsImagination and ritual in travel“Sometimes it’s good to sit still and let a place move through you instead of you moving through a place.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how one can be vulnerable to new experiences on the road instead of micromanaging an itinerary (2:00); how monuments to mortality help us think of travel moments in an existential way (11:30); how we can take the mindset of travel back home with us when the journey is over, and how the experience of travel changes as you age (20:00); the role of ritual and...2023-11-2841 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsThe making of a travel writer“When asked to give advice to young people looking to become travel writers, I invariably tell them to go – alone – and live in a country where they don’t speak the language.” –Thomas Swick
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom talk about the thematic limitations of memoir writing, and the early stages of Tom’s career as a journalist (2:00); his decision to move to Poland for love, and his experiences living in Warsaw around the time of the Solidarity movement (9:30); the task of writing a travel memoir about events that happened decades ago, and how the American new...2023-11-1435 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsBeing a guest on the road (redo)“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate – which is a redo of episode 229, which didn’t air properly due to technical problems – Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of standard tourist routines and see places in unexpected way (1:30); how to get beyond the transactional, “taxi drivers and bartenders” layer of travel (10:00); how t...2023-10-3127 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsBeing a guest on the road“One way of making famous landmarks more comprehensible is to look for surprises, good and bad, that go beyond what you are expected to encounter there, details that open you up to the raw imperfections of the encounter itself.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how to break out of standard tourist routines and see places in unexpected way (1:30); how to get beyond the transactional, “taxi drivers and bartenders” layer of travel (10:00); how to become more independent of technology and smartphones as a traveler and find the “wisdom of...2023-10-0327 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsA life in travel“One ironic anxiety of travel is that suddenly you’re living in ‘organic time’ and you’re not used to it.” –Rolf Potts
In this “vagabonding audio companion” episode of Deviate, remixed from Aaron Millar’s Armchair Explorer podcast, Rolf talks about his earliest travel dreams, and what compelled him to finally take a vagabonding dream trip around North America by van in his early twenties (2:00); how travel expectations and planning are often at odds with the joy of what happens spontaneously on the road (8:30); the delightful surprises Rolf found on a recent trip to Sumatra and the Mentawai Islands...2023-09-1939 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsSlow travel (online book club remix)“We live in an age where you can take a series short flights inside a country to speed things up. You end up going to more places, but you experience less, because you’re not really committed to that chicken bus full of really interesting people who want nothing more than to interact with you.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss the idiosyncrasies of crossing land borders and traveling overland (1:30); travelers’ tendency to take dishonest photos of places, and how tourist destinations bend to tourists’ expectations (8:00); the small inconv...2023-08-2236 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow to travel in rural places“Domestic travel to rural places can be as important as international travel that is more obviously cross-cultural.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marci talk about how the best trips are guided by curiosity about eight key things, rather than checklists (2:00); what Marci has learned from several decades of writing guidebooks to rural and small-town Kansas, and how these places are worth fighting for (10:30); how urban people can better experience rural places (17:00); using your five senses as a traveler, and other strategies for exploring the nuances of new places (26:30); and seeing places as “mysteries to be solv...2023-08-0840 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsMuseums of the personal: Travel souvenirs“A souvenir can be anything from a travel experience that honors a certain moment in your life, certifies the journey that took you there, and celebrates the confluence of people and places and actions that made it possible.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne talk about the ways souvenirs help narrate our travel experiences (2:00); the five different historical categories of travel souvenirs (7:30); the old trend of collecting hair and bones from famous people (15:00); what kinds of souvenirs are popular with travelers (20:00); which souvenirs Rolf sought when he visited Australia, and how some souvenirs make le...2023-07-2545 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel makes you a kid again“In alien parts, we speak more simply, unencumbered by the histories that we carry around at home, and look more excitedly, with eyes of wonder.” —Pico Iyer
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss how he prepares for the book-club sessions (1:30); how the first days of one’s journeys have an optimistic energy and excitement, and how “culture shock” is a real thing (4:00); how travel can put us into a childlike mental state, and how travel expectations can lead to unfair disappointments (13:00); how food, even anomalous food, tells specific stories about pl...2023-07-1146 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsMuseums and travel“We do not just keep and collect things. We trouble ourselves to repurpose, create, and invent things just to carry, a little easier, those stories we cannot live without.”
—Kendra Greene
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks to the directors of two very different museums — Dawn Hammat of the Eisenhower Presidential Library, Museum & Boyhood Home in Abilene, Kansas, and Greg Long of Long’s Collectible Showplace & Gift Shop in Salina, Kansas (0:00); what people are drawn to in a given museum, and how a kind of nostalgia drives what people look for there (5:30); the ways all museums change and...2023-06-2717 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsStudy abroad for non-students“Quietly use travel to deepen your life, and to build stronger relationships – not only with other cultures, but with your home. Figure out ways to give back.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and David talk about how travel allows you to “waste your twenties” in a good way, and how Rolf has come to define “adventure” (2:00); how to plan travels in such a way as to leave room for spontaneity, and how to meet people on the road (8:00); how to communicate in a place where you don’t speak the local language, and how to be daring in tryi...2023-06-131h 00
Deviate with Rolf PottsWalking the Camino (with Andrew McCarthy)“Not every fearful decision I’ve made has been bad, but most of my bad decisions have been based in fear.” –Andrew McCarthy
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Andrew talk about the two halves of Andrew’s professional life – acting and travel writing – and his transformative first journey on the Camino de Santiago in 1994 (2:00); Andrew’s decision to return to the Camino after the pandemic with his 19-year-old son Sam, what it was like to walk for days at a time with Sam, and how being in the 1980s “Brat Pack” affected Andrew’s sense of self (11:30); how Sam...2023-05-3038 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsAvoiding travel burnout“The truth is that our travel anticipations, and our memories, have a way of holding only the most striking parts of an experience—the parts that don’t cause burnout.” —Matt Kepnes
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Matt talk about travel journaling, and a journal Matt has designed for travelers (1:15); why travel burnout happens, and how Matt first experienced it on the road (4:30); why rest days are important to a journey, and why one shouldn’t over-plan one’s days on the road (10:00); how lingering in places allows you to develop a deeper relationship to those places, a...2023-05-1627 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsIdiosyncrasies of Las Vegas (with Ari Shaffir)“Things don’t happen in Las Vegas. Things are happened in Las Vegas. All actions in the town are so meticulously predicted and orchestrated that spontaneity itself exists only as the ghost of compulsion.” –Rolf Potts (in 1998)
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss Rolf’s 1998 Las Vegas essay “The Mystical High Church of Luck,” and their relationship to their early creative work (2:30); how the experience of Las Vegas depends on what stage of life you’re in, how Vegas compares to New Orleans, and how Rolf and Ari have a hard time enjoying themselves when they go there...2023-05-021h 04
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel quests and communities (book club remix)“Nothing against bucket lists, but sometimes that interest that makes you weird and nerdy at home is going to make you vulnerable to all the weird nerdy people in some distant new place who are also interested in that thing.” —Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Vagabond’s Way book club participants discuss what compels us to be interested in certain places, and how Rolf’s latest book is designed to be read over the course of a year (2:00); how nomads can create consistency and community in new places, and how to find good cities...2023-04-1826 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel can be a way to see the future (and experience the past), with Kevin Kelly“”I wasn’t partying. I wasn’t relaxing on the beach. I was photographing – working – every minute of the day. That was a means to see as much as I possibly could. And to keep looking.” –Kevin Kelly
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kevin discuss the ambitions and connections that led Kevin to Asia not long after high school (2:30); how Kevin’s interest in photography affected his experience of Asia (7:30); how seeing other cultures gave him perspective on his own culture, and on himself, and his countrymen (15:00); how photography gave him intensified attention to what in the world might b...2023-03-2144 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsGiving yourself permission to travel“Success is often about finding just enough material wealth to fund the life that makes you happy.” —Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and The Nomadic Network book club participants discuss how travel can intensify the attention you pay to life at home (2:30); how the best discoveries of travel can’t be planned, and how you can give yourself permission to travel at all ages in life (10:30); how travel can give you perspective on the notion of “success” (22:00); what various book club participants have learned from (and discovered on) their travels (34:00); and the details of Rolf’s annual...2023-03-0742 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsInteracting with distant cultures at home“Travel has become a way to remind myself how it feels to get lost, and then get unlost. It is a way to remember the discomfort of uncertainty and the unfamiliar. It’s an exercise in receiving the unexpected.” –Kristin Van Tassel
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kristin discuss being in DC, living in Kansas, and Kristin’s family trip to Mexico using migrant-economy buses (1:30); how seeking international restaurants and grocery stores at home can be a window into distant cultures (8:00); Kristin’s motivation to learn Spanish in middle age, and how it connects to her perspectiv...2023-02-2144 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsA philosophical approach to the notion of "beauty"“A willingness to fail is an important part of difficult beauty. Because difficult beauty will arrive first not as beauty at all.” –Chloe Cooper Jones
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Chloe discuss the philosophical concept of “easy beauty” and “difficult beauty” in the context of travel (2:30); how our relationship to places changes over time with repeated exposure (15:00); how art and travel, home and adventure, became important aspects of Chloe’s life (23:00); how the archetype of the “Hero’s Journey” evokes aspects of home as well as travel (35:30); Chloe’s investigation and experience of “dark tourism” in Cambodia, and how it gave...2023-01-171h 10
Deviate with Rolf PottsThe Geography of Bliss (and the bliss of uncertainty)“Travel is one of the few activities we engage in not knowing the outcome and reveling in that uncertainty. Nothing is more forgettable than the trip that goes exactly as planned.” –Eric Weiner
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Eric discuss the tendency of travelers to idealize the very recent bygone past in places, and Rolf’s experience of traveling by freighter ship (2:00); Eric’s satisfaction in returning to places he’s visited before, such as India, and how to remain open to uncertainty and surprise on the road (9:30); how conversations about travel differ from generation to generation...2023-01-031h 04
Deviate with Rolf PottsAn anthropology of travel culture“Travel expands time, because you’re not experiencing the everyday of what you normally do. It’s all about discovery, and experiencing that with other people.” —Pegi Vail
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Pegi talk about how she originally sought to depict a “visual ethnography” of world travelers, their global impacts, and their power as a “gentrifying” force (2:00); how the world of travel has (and hasn’t) changed since Pegi made her film ten years ago, and how immigrants and migrant workers also represent travel communities just like backpackers and expats (11:00); the ways the notion of “journey” can serv...2022-12-201h 00
Deviate with Rolf PottsSidestepping the travel industry“Why fly fourteen hours from New York to Johannesburg to see a South African version of Brooklyn? To me, the only reason to know what destinations are ‘hot’ is to avoid them.” —Seth Kugel
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Seth talk about how the travel industry both helps and hinders the travel experience, and how Seth first experienced travel when he was young (1:30); tourist desire, the “beaten path,” and the contradictions of what travelers seek in AirBnbs and related property-renting services (10:30); dealing with language barriers overseas, and social versus literal risks overseas (20:00); balancing general tourist advice versus n...2022-12-0653 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsLive in NYC with Ari Shaffir“There’s no getting lost when you travel, because you’re already there. You’re already where you’re supposed to be, which is somewhere in this new place.” –Ari Shaffir
In this episode of Deviate, which took place at New York City’s KGB Bar, Rolf and Ari talk about the premise of Rolf’s new book The Vagabond’s Way (2:20); why it’s important not to postpone one’s dream travels to a seemingly more appropriate time of life, and how it’s hard for your friends to appreciate and understand your travels when you get home (7:30); how to not...2022-11-2450 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTim Cahill's Travel 101“Eat what is put in front of you. They are not making fun of you. The rooster’s head floating in the soup really is given to the honored guest. If you insist on being a picky eater, stay home.” –Tim Cahill
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tim talk about the premise of Tim’s classic essay “Professor Cahill’s Travel 101” (1:30); the importance of having a “quest” on a journey (8:00); how boredom can enhance the experience of travel, and why rest-days are important to a journey (15:00); why one should avoid whining (and compulsively talking about bowel movements) on g...2022-11-0852 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsSolo travel“When you’re not sitting across from someone, you’re sitting across from the whole world.” –Stephanie Rosenbloom
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Stephanie talk about the rewards of traveling alone, and how to mix solo and companion travel within a single trip (2:00); how going alone makes you more receptive to museums, restaurants, and walking in a new play (11:00); how to better savor your travel experiences while they’re happening (21:00); certifying versus savoring experiences, and how to balance travel as an external act with a more spiritual internal process (31:00); and strategies for savoring solo travel experiences...2022-11-0150 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTips for keeping a travel journal“A travel journal helps you remember more than what you did and saw. It will helps you remember how you became the person you are today.” –Lavinia Spalding
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Lavinia talk about the section of Rolf’s book The Vagabond’s Way that touches on travel journaling, what what purposes a travel journal can serve (1:30); how journals give you perspective on the person you used to be, and how the journaling habit develops over time (9:00); strategies for being vulnerable and honest in a travel journal (15:00); strategies for being consistent with a journal on t...2022-10-2547 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsPaul Theroux on the paradoxes of travel“When you travel, you find out what it is you really want. You find out what you’re capable of, what your ambitions are.” –Paul Theroux
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Paul talk about how brotherly conflict is a time-honored trope in literature, and how travel can be a way to find your interests and ambitions in life (3:00); the ethical paradoxes and hypocrisies of global charities and industries in a resource-rich place like Africa (9:30); how writing fiction differs from writing nonfiction (19:00); and where Theroux is headed next (22:00).
Paul Theroux (@PaulTheroux_) is a pioneer of travel...2022-10-1825 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsVagabond's Way book launch event“This is your one life. Think about it: If you dream of travel, it’s not as hard as you might think. You can find ways to make it happen.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about how “vagabonding” is defined, how Rolf has come to define home, and what the premise of The Vagabond’s Way is (2:00); how Rolf researched and organized the quotes and anecdotes and philosophies that went into the book (10:00); how mistakes and misadventures are an inevitable part of the travel process, and how time is one’s truest form of we...2022-10-1151 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsAri Shaffir on the joys of getting lost“Naysayers can be the biggest obstacle for people who want to travel. Even if they know nothing about a place, they’ll think of reasons why you shouldn’t go there.” –Ari Shaffir
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ari discuss how the experience of travel changes as you get older, what it’s like to record an interview in public in Paris, and how loneliness compels you to be a better traveler (2:00); what it was like to workshop travel stories in class, and how writing for the page compares to writing for the comedy stage (12:00); Rolf quotes A...2022-09-2054 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsThe Vagabond's Way: An audio book chapter“At its best, travel is embraced not as a flashy backdrop for our lifestyle ambitions, but as an act that touches every aspect of our being.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads the introduction chapter from his latest book, The Vagabond’s Way, which debuts on October 4th (and is available for preorder now from your favorite bookstore).2022-08-2307 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsSeeking nuances at home and abroad“I think sometimes as travel writers our most important job is to be a listener — to listen to the stories that people are telling each other in a place.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Ernest talk about why home is such an important place in one’s life, even when one travels to more far-flung places (3:00); why the vagabonding ethos begins with the willingness to give oneself permission to travel in life, and how Rolf’s new book, The Vagabond’s Way, furthers the vagabonding ethos in a daily-reading format (15:00); the difficulty of figuring out whi...2022-08-1647 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsMonastery hospitality on Syria's backpacker trail“I talked as much about the National Basketball Association in Syria as I did about politics. Syrians felt so global and interested in everything. As a young backpacker, I don’t know that I appreciated the historical moment that I was in.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Shaun talk about how they first came to know of Father Paolo and Deir Mar Musa monastery in Syria (3:00); the warm and hospitable experience of traveling in other parts of the country (10:00); Father Paolo’s “interfaith dialogue” initiatives at Deir Mar Musa (18:30); what happened to Father Paolo after the S...2022-07-1247 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel as self-reinvention“Travel imparts a liquid language whose sole property is the flow of questions.” –Marcia DeSanctis
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Marcia talk about what it was like to work as a TV producer for Barbara Walters (1:30); how she made the decision to transition into prose writing, and how a sense of curiosity and abandon can inspire travel and travel writing (6:00); how we all change as travelers over the course of a lifetime (13:00); the way the things we bring home from our travels shape our memories of places (21:30); and how travel is a way to reinvent oneself...2022-06-1439 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsComing home from long-term travel“In the Hong Kongs and New Yorks and Londons of the world you need to find ways to get outside, because it can be depressing to be in a great world city and be trapped in an 800-square-foot space.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Rueben discuss what it’s like to come home after a life-changing journey, sharing the story with others, exploring one’s own hometown on foot (2:00); the wisdom captured in quotes, and the power of poetry (22:00); the notion of what is possible in less-expensive cities and neighborhoods, avoiding consumerist living, and spending...2022-03-0857 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsA mixtape about mixtapes“Mixtapes were more than a way to share music in the 1980s and 1990s: They were, in fact, a type of extraverbal language — a vivid, inexpensive form of folk communication.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the film Cassette, and reads an informal essay about how mixtapes are a kind of lost language (00:45); then Rolf, Liesl, and Michael talk about how person-to-person connection was essential to sharing music in the 1990s, and the legacy of cassettes (8:00); the era when cassettes were a new technology, and the craft and care that went into creating mixtapes...2021-12-2854 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsChristmas Special [encore]“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire”
In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, inc...2021-12-1451 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow digital photos have changed travel“When you smell a place, that’s when your experience of it starts.” – Rolf Potts
Wade Shepard (@vagabondjourney) is an itinerant writer and filmmaker who has been traveling the world, through ninety countries, since 1999. Digital nomads interested in lending experiences or insights to the documentary film The Nomads can contact Wade at wadeshepard@protonmail.com.
Notable Links:
Baywatch (TV show)
Damara (African ethnic group)
Herrero (African ethnic group)
@lukeoakvt (Rolf’s nephew’s TikTok account)
Malagasy invasion of Africa (10th century battle)
Pollyanna principle (positivity bias)
Mursi (African ethnic group)
FOMO (fear of missing out)
The Beach...2021-11-3020 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsVan Life before #VanLife (encore)“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts
In this encore episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were differe...2021-11-021h 50
Deviate with Rolf PottsTales from the vagabonding trail“Life’s journey is as rewarding as my travel journeys. It’s been fun to travel the world as a slightly older person.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and participants in the Nomadic Network book club discuss the stories behind the travel tales in his 2008 book Marco Polo Didn’t Go There, including what inspired him to collect the essays into a single book, and why he decided to include endnotes (2:00); which stories stand out as favorites, for both Rolf and his readers, and how Rolf finds stories on the road (12:30); how his writing and his travel...2021-10-1237 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsCreative cross-training“Putting together the podcast has been like swimming laps or practicing free-throws — it’s creative cross-training that benefits my broader writing pursuits, even as it allows me to explore esoteric topics that fascinate me.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate (which is remixed from Jay Acunzo’s 3 Clips podcast) Rolf and Jay talk about how a visual medium like travel gets translated to audio, and how podcasting serves Rolf’s creative career (4:00); how the walking episode differed from normal ones, and the walk naturally mixed spiritual and practical themes (10:00); how to approach an interview without an outline, creating...2021-09-1438 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTransitioning into long-term travel“Travel is life’s best education, if you allow it be.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Looking Up Podcast, by Max McCoy. They discuss why travel is a great catalyst for finding direction in life (1:30); how being lonely, lost, and bored allow you to experience travel in a deeper, more vulnerable, more spiritual way (12:30); how traveling and journaling about it can focus one’s writing discipline (20:00); the relationship of one’s travels and one’s work over time (31:00); how to whet your travel appetite by finding adventures at home, and how to nav...2021-07-1354 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsDigital nomads: The documentary“Digital nomadism is still being figured out. In twenty years digital nomadism will have a concrete reality that we can’t even predict now.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, which is excerpted from an in-progress documentary called The Nomads, filmmaker Anne von Petersdorff asks Rolf to discuss how digital nomadism is defined, how it has emerged from earlier generations of travel and human mobility, and how it is more than just a “Western” trend (3:00); how the digital nomad movement will affect the nation-state and global citizenship, and how these notions have historically always been in flux (10:00...2021-06-2938 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsExpat life in Korea“I came to live and work in Korea and walked out two years later way more equipped in life, not just as a traveler, but as a person.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friends Brian and Steve talk about the factors that led them to live and work in South Korea when they were in their twenties, and what they experienced when they first arrived (2:30); the cultural differences, idiosyncrasies, and lessons learned as expat English teachers during South Korea’s globalization boom-years (17:30); culture shock, North Korean provocations, anti-U.S. sentiment, and how what w...2021-05-041h 08
Deviate with Rolf PottsAn iconic 1980s underdog story“If you put Harrison Ford, Sting, and Andy Chapman in a room together in Kansas in 1981, the girls of Kansas would have trampled the actor and the rock star in an effort to get closer to the charismatic young soccer player.” – Rolf Potts
In this essay episode of Deviate, Rolf talks about the iconically 1980s sports phenomenon known as Major League Indoor Soccer, and how the league came about (5:00); his childhood fixation with the Wichita Wings, and how the presence of the pro soccer team and its players affected his mid-sized Kansas hometown (11:00); and the most famous game i...2021-04-0732 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel Lessons You Can Use at Home“The best experiences in life can be had for the price of showing up.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Kiki take a road-trip to Colorado (with Salvie the cat yowling in his pet-carrier) and discuss how Rolf’s 2010 essay “5 Travel Lessons You Can Use at Home” can apply to home-life during a time of pandemic, including the notion that “Time = Wealth” (5:00); the importance of knowing how to “Be Where You Are” (8:30); the advantages of knowing when to “Slow Down” (20:00); the merit that comes in knowing how to “Keep it Simple” (25:00); and how life is more dynamic when you “Do...2020-12-3151 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsWriting travel memoir“Earnest, hard-won failure can teach you as much as anything.” – Rolf Potts
Note: For information on the Paris-based Travel Memoir classes Rolf is offering to Deviate listeners in 2021, inquire at deviate@rolfpotts.com, or via the online forms at the Paris Writing Workshops website.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jeremy discuss breaking into travel writing and learning through failure (4:00); what defines travel memoir, and how it’s different from other kinds of travel writing (11:00); the role of research in travel writing, and the balance between personal expression and reportage (17:00); the travel writing industry, and what...2020-12-0843 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTime Wealth and the spiritual texture of travel“Getting in touch with reality is literally the essence of spiritual life.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf remixes his interview from the Far Out Podcast, by Julie-Roxane and Alasdair. They discuss “Time Wealth,” and vagabonding as a philosophy for life (3:00); sifting through mediated information, versus getting local information on the road, and “reality” as the essence of spirituality (13:00); appreciation versus achievement, embracing the possibility of travel, and how you get smarter about travel the more you travel (24:00); seeking to have an “option-rich” life, the freedom that comes with not having preconceptions about where to go or what to do...2020-11-101h 15
Deviate with Rolf Potts50 ways of looking at nostalgia“Nostalgia isn’t rational, and just like Warrant’s 1990 song “Cherry Pie” reminds me of 1989 more than the recorded sound of my own voice from 1989, watching the movie Dazed and Confused for the first time literally made me long for a time in life that was less happy than the time I was living in when I saw it.” — Rolf Potts
In this essay episode of Deviate Rolf talks about four recent factors in his life that have changed the ways he views nostalgia (4:00); how he may well could have been killed in a motorcycle wreck in Asia in 2019...2020-10-1356 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsSatanic Panic really was a thing“There are the actual facts of what was happening in popular culture in the 1980s — and then there was this tantalizing notion that music played backwards was going to seed our minds with evil. Which was scary, but also kind of cool to a certain kid-like way of thinking.” — Rolf Potts
In this rebroadcast episode of Deviate Rolf delves into the idea of “backward masking” in rock music, and how it came to influence notions of “Satanic Panic” in America over the course of the 1980s. Returning to the show for this musical deep-dive are Jedd Beaudoin (@JeddBeaudoin), w...2020-10-061h 24
Deviate with Rolf PottsTips from 20 years of travel writing“Embrace your travel mistakes. You can’t ‘fail’ at travel; you can only learn from travel.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, which excerpts a keynote talk from TravelCon, Rolf talks a bit about his background of growing up in Kansas and dreaming about travel, his earliest vagabonding travels, and his first forays into travel writing (3:30); then Rolf shares his “20 lessons learned from 20 years as a travel writer,” (7:30).
Notable Links:
TravelCon (travel-media conference)
Don George (travel writer)
Rolf’s ongoing travel writer interview series
Eva Holland (travel writer)
Bachata (Dominican dance style)
Merengue (Dominican dance style)
...2020-09-2236 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsBad Tourist“Sometimes we do things for ourselves in the name of adventure, without thinking about how this affects other people.” – Suzanne Roberts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Suzanne discuss what it means to be a bad traveler, and the ethical quandaries that come with being a tourist (3:00); examples from Suzanne’s book about her interacting from a position of privilege with trekking guides during a mudslide in Peru, giving a Power Bar to a leper in India, or wanting to help underaged prostitutes in Nicaragua (12:00); burning-ghat tourism in Varanasi, and how places where death is more public m...2020-09-151h 04
Deviate with Rolf PottsBest hostel ever“There are so many ways travel can change your life, in ways you could never imagine before you leave home.” –Daniel Neely
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay, Backpackers’ Ball at the Sultan Hotel (7:30) before he and Dan reflect on the international cast of characters they met at at the Sultan Hotel in Cairo, and how workaday activities can make the city more interesting than tourist attractions (36:30); the friendships you make in hostels and how they end up shaping your life (44:45); how smartphones may have changed the vibe of some hostels, and how interacting with stra...2020-08-181h 07
Deviate with Rolf PottsWriter and TV showrunner Brian Koppelman“My ambition was not financial, but a creative ambition toward fulfillment and satisfaction — and to be a better human toward those whom I loved.” – Brian Koppelman
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Brian discuss podcast fandom, and how listening to podcasts is intimate in a way other media is not (2:00); self-improvement and ambition versus fulfillment, and the cultural reach of what Brian has created (11:00); the influence of music, and how a single album or artwork affects you at certain ages or times of your life (22:00); and masculine emotions as they are expressed in music, and writing to music...2020-08-1145 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsRolf's parents on parental mortality“In America aging is often seen as an insult rather than an inevitable human process. We don’t celebrate getting older; we ‘fight’ age by pretending to be young.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his parents, Alice and George Potts, talk about how surviving the COVID-19 pandemic has changed their relationship, and how it gave them a pretext to go through a “death checklist” together (3:00); how one’s grandparents and parents live on in one’s memories and one’s conversations, the life-values they passed on, and what it felt like when those loved ones declined and...2020-07-1448 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel writing in the 21st century“One of the miracles of travel writing is to constantly be reminded of how much we don’t know.” – Doug Bock Clark
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Doug discuss how travel writing is defined, and what purposes it serves in the twenty-first century (3:30), the boundaries of travel writing, the nuanced task of trying to humanize people in a travel story, and the future of the form (19:00). Then, Rolf reads his essay, “Why Travel Writing Matters” from the Fall 2017 issue of The Chattahoochee Review (29:00).
Doug Bock Clark (@DougBockClark) is a GQ correspondent and a contributor for...2020-07-0740 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsThe Great Gatsby, high-school-style“One reason why Gatsby is called a ‘Great American Novel’ is that it illuminates a conversation we haven’t stopped having in this country. We keep pretending to be people we’re not.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate Rolf and his old high school friends reflect on the role of Nick Carraway as the narrator of The Great Gatsby, how he deals with race and privilege, and whether or not his perspective is reliable (7:00); Fitzgerald’s use of language and juxtaposition in depicting characters and their relationships (22:00); the characters’ lack of moral grounding amid the opulence and wealth...2020-06-3053 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsTravel skills for a time of pandemic“Give yourself the luxury of unplugging from the news cycle. Like travel, this will allow you to reconnect with an older way of being human.” –Rolf Potts
To celebrate the launch of Deviate Season 3, Rolf gets the tables turned on him as he is interviewed by Konrad Waliszewski as part of TripScout’s #TravelFromHome initiative. Discussion topics include how travel skills apply to quarantine life at home, and how to engage in creative new habits a familiar environment (3:00); how to find serendipity and spontaneity at home when you can’t travel (12:00); hopes and advice for “getting travel right” once w...2020-05-0557 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsReports from my travels in quarantine (S:2 coda)“The pandemic might be a pretext to reinvent travel writing in a way that actually reports on the nuances of a complicated world rather than just framing vacation experiences.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reports solo from his quarantine to talk about the end of his second podcast season, and the misconceptions people have about his home state of Kansas (0:50); what travel might look like once we are no longer in quarantine, the ethical issues surrounding the consumer rituals of the travel industry, and the shortcomings of commercial travel media and travel writing (9:00); how vagabon...2020-04-2843 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsSeeing Europe with my parents“This is another thing that travel teaches you: It reminds you that you have to live now, and travel is a way of living now.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his parents convene in quarantine to reminisce about their old trip to Paris and Prague together, and how it deepened their memories, their understanding of Europe, and their relationship with each other. They begin by talking about why exactly they went to Paris and Prague (8:00); what sights they saw in Paris, both intentional and accidental, and how they remember their experience there (13:00); how in some...2020-04-2353 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow to negotiate sabbaticals and career breaks“Travel is kind of strength-training for your soul.” –Tara Quinn
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tara talk about she got started coaching people pm setting up work sabbaticals, what her clients’ most common concerns are, and how Americans’ attitude toward work are different from the rest of the world (3:00); common tactics and techniques she employs as a sabbatical coach, and what kinds of clients she attracts (17:00); how to use travel as a pretext for professional development, self-education, and changing careers (28:00); the importance of imperfection and failure in learning useful lessons from travel (40:00); and ending a long-term s...2020-03-101h 03
Deviate with Rolf PottsAri Shaffir geeks out on travel“It doesn’t matter where you’re going. Just find a reason to go.” –Ari Shaffir
Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the Skeptic Tank podcast. For more information on Ari, visit his website. This episode of Deviate is excerpted from Ari Shaffir’s Skeptic Tank episode #298: Vagabonder.
In this episode of Deviate, Ari and Rolf sit down in New York’s Tompkins Square Park and talk about the esoteric obsessions that lead you into unique adventures in faraway countries, and the best way to meet people on the r...2020-03-031h 46
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow music affects you when you're young“In the late 1980s human beings were your YouTube algorithm. Flesh-and-blood people introduced you to the music that changed your life.” —Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and and Tod talk about Tod’s experience of being in the Jane’s Addiction “Stop!” video (3:00); Rolf reads his essay about discovering the album “Nothing’s Shocking” in 1989 (7:00); Rolf and Tod discuss what it was like to see Jane’s Addiction in the southern California music scene of the mid-late 1980s, versus what listening to AOR radio music was like in the middle of the country (19:30); how radio programming, inde...2020-02-2555 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsChina and Mongolia with my parents“Home is in dialogue with the places you travel, and often serves as an interpretive lens.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his parents reflect their journey to China and Mongolia many years ago. The episode starts with an excerpt of Rolf’s 2001 NPR dispatch about the experience, then they recall their visit Korea four years earlier, when Rolf worked as an English teacher in Pusan (13:00); then they recount their impressions of staying together in a youth hostel in China, and exploring the sights of Beijing (20:00); and finally they recall their train ride to Mongolia...2020-02-181h 12
Deviate with Rolf PottsLoving sports as a kid v. adult (Super Bowl special)“Because I was entering football fandom at the same age that Star Wars was blowing up, the Roger Staubach Dallas Cowboys were my Luke Skywalker, and the Steelers and the Raiders were, in my child mind, the Evil Empire.” —Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf shares his 2002 NPR “Savvy Traveler” dispatch about trying to watch the Super Bowl in Thailand (2:00); then he and Tod Goldberg discuss how they became NFL football fans as kids in the 1970s, and how this affected their fandom later in life (9:00); how it could be difficult in the days before the Intern...2020-01-281h 09
Deviate with Rolf PottsChristmas Special: Sears Wish Book“The Sears Christmas Wish Book was, for me, a kind of foundational text — a secular counterpoint to the Bible stories I learned around that time in Sunday School. I paged through the holiday catalog’s 620 glossy pages as if they amounted to an intoxicating graphic novel of desire, rich with abundance and possibility.” – Rolf Potts, from “Literature of Desire”
In this episode Rolf reads an audio version of his Christmas-themed essay “Literature of Desire,” and discusses the wonders of the Sears Christmas Wish Book with novelist Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg). Tod is the New York Times bestselling author of over a dozen books, in...2019-12-1752 min
Deviate with Rolf PottsSpud Hilton on inappropriate travel“Pretty much the second you step outside your front door, you have some basis for calling what you do ‘travel’” – Spud Hilton
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Spud talk about the “messy, fun, and naughty side of travel” (3:20); sex and travel (26:00); the overly reverent language we often use to talk about travel (37:00); and the death of the “Mile-High Club” (48:00).
Spud Hilton (@SpudHilton) is a travel expert, speaker, writer and host of the Inappropriate Traveler podcast.
Notable Links:
Pico Iyer (travel writer)
Paul Theroux (travel writer)
Tim Cahill (travel writer)
Jan Morris (travel wri...2019-11-191h 00
Deviate with Rolf PottsVan Life before #VanLife“I will never have another vagabonding journey that compares to that first one — even though I have since traveled to far more exotic parts of the world — in part because there’s something special about embarking on a long-term trip for the first time.” –Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and his old friend Jeff talk about their 8-month van trip across North America back in 1994, how they prepared for it, and how it differed from current-day #VanLife excursions (5:30); how they exercised on the road, and how the conditions and travel-hacks of van journeys were different fo...2019-10-081h 50
Deviate with Rolf PottsRyan Holiday“Most people do not wake up and think, ‘I need more philosophy in my life.’ They do wake up and think ‘I have a problem and I need a solution’.” –Ryan Holiday
Ryan Holiday (@RyanHoliday) is an American marketer and entrepreneur, and the author of eight books, including The Obstacle is the Way, Ego is the Enemy, and Stillness is the Key, which debuts in bookstores this week.
In this episode of Deviate, Ryan and Rolf talk about “Big Idea” books, how Ryan’s philosophical trilogy of books came about, and how word-of-mouth works better than categorization i...2019-10-011h 10
Deviate with Rolf PottsThe impact of Leonardo DiCaprio's The Beach“The movie does feel so dated…and yet, there’s a part of me that can relate to traveling across the world, landing somewhere, finding yourself surrounded by what’s all too familiar, and wanting something more. I think that sort of theme is still probably as relevant as ever.” – Jim Benning
This episode of Deviate focuses on the 2000 Leonardo DiCaprio movie that was based on Alex Garland’s book, The Beach. Rolf begins by reading his essay Storming the Beach (6:00), followed by a discussion with Jim Benning on post-modern travel and the differences between the book and movie (42...2019-06-111h 43
Deviate with Rolf PottsHow travel has changed in the past 20 years“The secret of the bucket list is that what’s on it doesn’t matter, because the doors that will open up once you’re out looking for your bucket list item will be more amazing than anything you could have dreamt up at home.” – Rolf Potts
Sean Keener (@SEKeener) is the Cofounder and CEO of the BootsnAll Travel Network, a travel media network focused on planning complex, multi-stop, round-the-world travel. He is also the Chairman of Airtreks, a travel network specializing in multi-stop international travel.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay “5 ways indie trav...2019-05-091h 08
Deviate with Rolf PottsAri Shaffir returns“The hashtag level of social media discourse can be really frustrating. It tends to bend narratives toward the hashtag slogan. But when we start sweeping everything into the same category, we begin to trivialize the core issue.” – Rolf Potts
Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comedian, writer, podcaster, and actor. He is the current host of the podcast Skeptic Tank.
In the Season 1 Finale of Deviate, Rolf and Ari resume their conversation about magic mushrooms (7:00); discuss Ari’s strange bets and the experience of panhandling for money (17:00); reflect on lessons learned from the past year of podcasti...2018-11-131h 30
Deviate with Rolf PottsWhite Zombie guitarist J. Yuenger“Travel feels like a generational signifier the way rock music was when I was a kid. The whole idea of having experiences as opposed to accumulating stuff feels like this planetary alignment, the way rock was in the ’70s.” – Jay Yuenger
Jay Yuenger (@JYuenger) is a rock guitarist best known for his work with the Grammy-nominated heavy metal band White Zombie.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Jay discuss Cuba and access to technology (3:00); J’s White Zombie backstory, and his travels with the band (13:30); the rise in popularity of White Zombie and the evolution...2018-09-251h 18
Deviate with Rolf PottsTrans-Siberian, Part I“If there is any revelation to be gleaned from spending several days on a single train, it will come from the bizarre details that lurk beneath the mundanity of the trip itself.” – Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf reads his essay On the Trans-Siberian Express (2:00) and then recounts, with Jonathan Arlan, the story behind the story, discussing his approach to writing about his experiences on the Trans-Siberian railroad (1:17:00).
Jonathan Arlan (@JonathanArlan) is the author of the book Mountain Lines: A Journey through the French Alps and a recent Tablet essay titled Off the Rails i...2018-09-181h 35
Deviate with Rolf PottsWesley Morris“There’s nothing that will stop white people from trying to do some black shit. It’s fundamentally baked into every aspect of American popular culture. It is the first thing that we invented that was entirely ours — white people dressing as black people and entertaining other people.” — Wesley Morris
Wesley Morris (@Wesley_Morris) the Pulitzer Prize-winning critic at large for the New York Times. Formerly the co-host of the Grantland podcast “Do You Like Prince Movies?”, he now co-hosts the “Still Processing” podcast with Times colleague Jenna Wortham.
In this episode of Deviate Rolf and Wesley discuss the...2018-08-141h 05
Deviate with Rolf PottsSatanic backward masking“There are the actual facts of what was happening in popular culture in the 1980s — and then there was this tantalizing notion that music played backwards was going to seed our minds with evil. Which was scary, but also kind of cool to a certain kid-like way of thinking. You can almost see a book like Backward Masking Unmasked as young-adult literature.” — Rolf Potts
In this episode of Deviate Rolf delves into another musical mystery — the idea of “backward masking” in rock music, and how it came to influence notions of “Satanic Panic” in America over the course of the 1980s...2018-08-071h 24
Deviate with Rolf PottsAnthony Bourdain, R.I.P.“Every good story is two stories: the story of the place and the story of what happened to you as a result of being in that place” – Alden Jones
Eddy Harris (@EddyLHarris) is a writer, filmmaker, and author of Mississippi Solo, Native Stranger, and Still Life in Harlem. Alden Jones (@jones_alden) is an author and writer of The Blind Masseuse. Thomas Swick (@roostertie) is an author and writer of The Joys of Travel, A Way to See the World, and Unquiet Days.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf, Eddy, Alden, and Thomas reflect on the legac...2018-06-191h 06
Deviate with Rolf PottsKevin Smokler“John Hughes, and really all of best 1980s teen movies, were saying that the stories of teenagers are the stories of all of us. They have the same human need and longing that the stories of adults have.” —Kevin Smokler
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf discusses classic coming-of-age films with Kevin Smokler (@Weegee), author of Brat Pack America: A Love Letter to ’80s Teen Movies.
The discussion themes, cultural references, and time-codes that outline this expansive conversation are as follows:
Kids having adult adventures movies
[2:30 – 17:00]
Links:
Stand By...2018-06-122h 02
Deviate with Rolf PottsSarah von Bargen“Better or happier usually takes much less time than we think.” – Sarah Von Bargen
Sarah Von Bargen (@yesandyesblog) is a writer, teacher, and business/lifestyle consultant. Her work focuses on goal-setting, work/life balance, productivity habits, money management, and the pursuit of happiness.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sarah deconstruct her six principles for identifying, embracing, and maintaining happiness:
Principle #1: You’re probably not the exception to the rule (6:30)
Principle #2: Stop pretending it’s easy (15:30)
Principle #3: The truth about work/life balance is that you’re going to find “success” a lot slower if you ha...2018-05-011h 01
Deviate with Rolf PottsRomance fiction and America“Essentially, a romance is a courtship story. And if you think about it, courtship stories are part of the foundation of human storytelling” –Sarah Wendell
Sarah Wendell (@SmartBitches) is an author and blogger whose work primarily focuses on the romance fiction genre. She is co-author of the book, Beyond Heaving Bosoms: The Smart Bitches’ Guide to Romance Novels.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Sarah discuss the elements of a romance novel book cover (13:00); plot and structure of a romance novel (24:00); the history the romance genre (34:00); and the evolution of romance fiction characters and tropes...2018-04-031h 05
Deviate with Rolf PottsAri Shaffir II“My tattoo reminds me of who I was at that age. I was so fraught with the existential stakes—I wanted to have lived. I wanted to remind myself to be present in the world and not let youth slip” – Rolf Potts
To celebrate the release of his new book Souvenir, Rolf welcomes back Ari Shaffir for a deep dive on the topic of souvenirs, their meaning, and their importance related to the experience of traveling (14:00). Rolf then reads an excerpt from his book (1:09:00) before exploring some of Ari’s favorite souvenirs (1:22:00).
Ari Shaffir (@AriShaffir) is a comed...2018-03-271h 51
Deviate with Rolf PottsWriter James Greer“This is a thing that journalists do—they take a ‘two is a coincidence, three is a trend’ sort of thing and try to manufacture an idea out of it.” – James Greer
James Greer is a screenwriter, music critic, author, and former rock musician. He-wrote the screenplay for Steven Soderbergh’s film Unsane, which is set for release on March 23rd.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and James discuss his early career as a music critic and Spin magazine (4:00); Generation X and James’ role in popularizing this demographic cohort (13:00); the Nirvana revolution and the band’s impact on...2018-03-201h 32
Deviate with Rolf PottsNovelist Tod Goldberg“To be creative, you have to live. You have to exist on this planet for a little bit” – Tod Goldberg
Tod Goldberg (@todgoldberg) is an American author and essayist, best known for his novels Gangsterland and Gangster Nation, and the tie-in novels to the television show Burn Notice. He directs the UCR Palm Desert Low Residency MFA program in Creative Writing.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf speaks with Tod about studying true crime and how to get away with murder (2:50); our relationship with athletes and sports (23:30); the Olympics and the Cold War (45:00); and the psycho...2018-01-161h 18
Deviate with Rolf PottsAuthor Tom Bissell“If you go through your life expecting moral purity from every artist you love, you’re going to have a very lonely life, aesthetically.” – Tom Bissell
Tom Bissell is an American author, journalist, and critic. He co-authored the book The Disaster Artist, which has been adapted into a movie starring James Franco, Seth Rogen, Dave Franco, and Alison Brie.
In this episode of Deviate, Rolf and Tom discuss Metallica and thrash metal (5:25); violence in music and video games (23:30); how one’s relationship to one’s own writing transforms over time (28:10); the shallowness of cultural criticism in social-me...2017-12-051h 08