Shows
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Scott Talks Diversity in the Deconstruction WorldI'm kinda hoping hardly anyone listens to this wide-ranging episode about diversity, or lack thereof, in the deconstruction world. The solution is simple. More BIPOC folks need to create content. I do criticize some creators, but I mostly want to celebrate you, the Chapel Probation listener. The criticisms herein are not about you. If you listen to BIPOC voices, you're doing good. Or you're building towards doing good. Thank you.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi...
2025-10-1431 min
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Scott talks life after Kirk and losing friends and familyPeople are asking how their friends and family could possibly like a person like Charlie Kirk. Scott talks about the reasons for this bending the knee to a horrible human being by otherwise "nice" or "good" people. And he talks about what pushing back looks like in your inner circles. There is a price to pay, for sure. But it's worth it if you have community support. Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and ...
2025-09-1636 min
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Greg Corricello- IVCF Worship and Bible Study Leading to Proud ACE LivingScott met Greg Corricello while at UC San Diego as Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship (IVCF) leaders. They played on the worship team together and shared a large, supportive community of christians on "secular," science-heavy campus. We saw ourselves as being on the front lines of radical christian living. But Greg went on to gradually deconstruct his faith, learning to accept himself as an asexual man. Being involved with a christian college org like IVCF, in many ways, was more intense than attending a christian school. That's a christian flex right there.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin...
2025-08-261h 11
The Horny ChapelThe Horny Chapel s2- Shiny Happy...SomethingWe watched the doc. And goddamn. Christians are not ok. We talk about this particular Christian cult, purity culture, and how we got where we are as a nation.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and Shin Kawasaki and Wingo ShacklefordJoin the Chapel Probation Patreon to support Scott and for bonus content. Join the Chapel Probation Facebook group to continue the conversations.Follow Scott on Instagram, Bluesky, and SubstackYou can subscribe to Scott's newsletter and learn more about the book, the blog, and performances at rscottokamoto.com
2025-08-201h 06
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Shiny Happy Horny ChapelWe watched the doc. And goddamn. Christians are not ok. We talk about this particular Christian cult, purity culture, and how we got where we are as a nation.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and Shin Kawasaki and Wingo ShacklefordJoin the Chapel Probation Patreon to support Scott and for bonus content. Join the Chapel Probation Facebook group to continue the conversations.Follow Scott on Instagram, Bluesky, and SubstackYou can subscribe to Scott's newsletter and learn more about the book, the blog, and performances at rscottokamoto.com
2025-08-191h 06
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Scott Explains Why He'll Never Be A Christian AgainThe Deconstruction world is dominated by progressive Christians, and while that's all well and good, I do not understand it. Maybe it's because I'm Japanese and could never imagine pushing a definition of christianity on the world. To be sure, I got tired of trying to define my faith, my identity, and my community while I was a christian. But the good news, well...my good news is that I want to build a better world with progressive christians, even if I do not understand their need or desire to remain christian. Who cares what I understand or believe...
2025-08-1236 min
Let's Talk About Text with Scott Okamoto, Blake Chastain & FriendsEp. 9: Scott & Marla Talk About Murakami and moreIn this episode, Blake is out and Scott Okamoto is joined by Marla Taviano to discuss books, reading, baseball, and more!
Scott's book: The Women of Brewster Place by Gloria Naylor
Marla's book: Novelist as a Vocation by Haruki Murakami
Find all previous picks - and support our show - by buying from our bookshop.org page!
00:00 Introduction to Let's Talk About Text
00:33 Meet Marla Aviano: A Prolific Reader
02:51 The Joy of Physical Books vs. E-Readers
03:58 Audiobooks: A Different Experience
05:10 School and Reading: A Love-Hate Relationship
05:57 Discovering a Favorite Book
14:06 Haruki...
2025-08-051h 00
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Dr. Daniel White Hodge- Former APU Prof talks Somatic Healing, Rage, and Full-Body OrgasmsDr. Daniel White Hodge returns to Chapel Probation. We talk about our usual gripes with race and how we BIPOC men get overlooked by most of the world. But Dan has been on an incredible healing journey of late, and he shares insights in overcoming trauma caused by violence (because America) and religion. His 8th season of the Profane Faith podcast just started, and Dan is tackling all the hard things and sharing his healing process as well as his usual sharp criticisms of the deconstruction world. The rest of the world is now seeing the America we've known...
2025-08-051h 09
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- The Horny Chapel at the Shameless Sexuality ConferenceWe interviewed Janice Selbie earlier this year, and we signed up to attend the Shameless Sexuality conference that she organizes. And we were pleasantly surprised to get an invite from Janice to speak at the conference, which was held virtually back in May. We brought our humor and insight to the event, shedding light on purity culture through our unique lenses. Hopefully, this conference will continue into the future. There were a lot of great presenters ranging from therapists, writers, and sex workers. Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.Scott's book, Asian-American-Apost...
2025-07-291h 01
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5: Celeste Irwin- Mars Hill and a Cult to Trans Advocate and WriterWhen one becomes indoctrinated into conservative christianity at a young age, that person usually does everything possible to adhere to the teachings and values that ultimately cause harm. Celeste Irwin did everything she could as a cis-het man, even joining a church plant for what she later learned was an insidious cult. But once she extricated herself from the cult and conservative christianity, she began the hard work of deconstructing faith and figuring out her identity as a "christian-ish" trans woman. Subscribe to Celeste's writing here.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJoin the Dauntless Media Discord for more co...
2025-07-221h 11
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Joh Chase- Worship Leader to Rock Star and TeacherI always knew Joh Chase would be a guest on Chapel Probation. They were one of the most influential people to come out of APU, and they are exquisitely talented. As a guitarist, singer, and songwriter, for my money, Joh is one of the best I've ever seen. And there's a reason we are still friends after meeting in 2005 during their sophomore year. Lots of old Joh Chase music featured in this episode. And lots of memories, both good and bad. Check out Joh's latest music on Spotify.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJo...
2025-07-151h 15
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Andrea: Enduring Toxic Men at Wheaton and BeyondContent Warning for descriptions of assault and rape.This week we go to the "Harvard" of Evangelical schools, which is not really a thing. But we go to Wheaton and learn from semi-anonymous guest, Andrea, that the patriarchal systems in place protect men and harm women when it comes to harassment and assault. And at every instance, Christian women are there to defend the men and even find blame in the women who accuse them. Obviously Wheaton is not unique in this patriarchal nightmare, but Andrea went through it all both while there and in life after...
2025-07-081h 28
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Katie Malia: Calvary Chapel OC Schools to Amazing Dancer, Comedian, and ActorDespite leaving christianity years ago, Katie Malia has never needed to find community centered on deconstruction. She forged her own creative life without ExVangelical twitter, podcasts, or White influencers. Not even Brian Recker! Gasp. Nope. Katie found life and community in the arts, comedy, and music. You've seen her on tv commercials. She's opened for big comedians like Margaret Cho. And her dance videos are incredible. But until now, Katie has never publicly told her story of growing up and then getting out of her Calvary Chapel upbringing. And she brought her comedian's eye for the absurd...
2025-07-011h 23
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Jess Grace Garcia: Culty Christian to Queer Pastor/Community LeaderWith all the hell happening all around us, particularly in the LA area, it feels good to present this conversation that offers so much hope and mind-expanding ideas. Jess Grace Garcia is a badass who has made it their life mission to help queer people find healing and positive identity in life after fundamentalist faith. They've been all through the cultiest of christian faiths to all the stages of deconstruction, to a fulfilling life of polyamory and community development. As the founder of Queerfire, a support group that meets monthly in the LA area to support folks...
2025-06-171h 34
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Marla Taviano: Celebrating the Majesty of "Fuck"Marla is back with some things to say about language, prude christians, and thoughts on finding our people. In a relatively short time, Marla has gone from dutiful Christian wife living as a missionary to outspoken advocate for BIPOC and Queer voices. Her latest project is called Mouth: A Little Book of Cheeky Poems, but as of this typing, there are only 5 left. So, hurry up and contact Marla to get yours.The word "fuck" is provocative, profane, and sometimes the perfect word, especially today. Pairs perfectly with the word "trump." Try it! And enjoy this conversation...
2025-06-031h 22
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Rick Pidcock- BJU to Empathy and FatherhoodWe are back at Bob Jones University, or BJU, with Rick Pidcock. Rick is a writer with Baptist News Global, and he has come a long way from those bizarre, high-control days of BJU. He tells his story of finding his way to being an empathetic human being in stark contrast with the uncaring theobro culture of BJU and how he became a stay-at-home dad, like Scott. And we finish with a last look at the deconstruction world, namely the White men who become influencer/pastors. Lots of great conversation.Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media CollectiveJ...
2025-05-271h 25
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Jeff Karow ReturnsJeff Karow told one of the most moving stories a couple of seasons ago, and he returns to Chapel Probation to give an update and to share some of his insights into putting his life together after leaving his conservative church and getting divorced. Like for so many people, deconstructing faith can have dire consequences. Relationships with family and friends can be strained or even irrevocably broken. And yet, we strive to remain true to ourselves as we build the life we want to live. After one more parting shot at Moody Bible Institute, Jeff talks about...
2025-05-201h 21
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Rohadi Nagassar- Finding Our Voice as Asian MenIt often comes as a surprise to non-Asians that people like Rohadi Nagassar and myself have things to say. Especially inside of North American Christianity. Like the proverbial tree falling in the forrest with no one to hear it, we do exist. We Asians often have to find our way out of church to develop our voices. Forget about "platforms." We have to first decolonize our own minds to learn that we do have things to say, and then we have to find our people.I'm so glad to have met Rohadi on social media, and I...
2025-05-131h 18Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Scott's Periodic Check-in: Things Are Not OKAs someone who was born into a family that got completely fucked by this country, I have some thoughts about the current situation. My family lost everything and had no due process before being incarcerated in concentration camps simply for being Japanese American. No one in my family takes freedom for granted because of this, and no one assumes this country has our best interests in mind ever. So for us, seeing what is happening, we do not hold out hope for the best outcome. For those of you who do not hail from societal and government tyranny, it...
2025-05-0620 min
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Mary B Safrit: Young Life Evangelical to Found FamilyWelcome to the first full episode of Season 5! We kick things off with Mary B Safrit, a writer and podcaster who actually interviewed Scott a few weeks ago on her podcast, Found Family. Mary B grew up in a mix of christian traditions and went to a normal college where she worked with Young Life. This solidified her evangelical identity at the time, but she went on to come out as bisexual while still remaining a progressive christian. But fear not. She has done the work, decolonizing from patriarchy and White christian nationalism, and she is awesome to talk...
2025-04-221h 12
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s5- Scott Talks About "Community" in the Deconstruction WorldWhat is Chapel Probation today? Who knows? Not me. But I'm going to keep going to give voice to people who are not ok with the state of things. Christians are to blame for where we are today, and our stories can help lead us out of this mess. That said, I wanted to also address what I think "community" is or should be. I give some thoughts on the TNE mess and the state of the deconstruction world. Mostly I want to shout out all of you who listen here. Big thank you. More to come.
2025-04-1532 min
Chapel ProbationThe Horny Chapel- I Kissed Dating Goodbye: Worst Book Ever Written?We're about 25 years late to this and about 7 years past Japanese American Joshua Harris denouncing his shitty book, but here we are. After Scott's Substack post about Harris had 4x as many reads as he has subscribers, we figured we should take a look back at why today's Christians are so damaged. A big part of it is purity culture. Scott never read the book, having slammed it shut after the first page, but poor Priska grew up in the height of the purity movement. And she has some feelings and thoughts.
CW- We don't pull any...
2025-01-251h 54
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Rochelle Younan Montgomery- From APU to a Life of Embodiment and Social JusticeAs we wrap up season 4, we return to where Chapel Probation began: Azusa Pacific "University." 20 years ago, I was asked to take over a Freshman Writing class because the other adjunct quit suddenly. There I met Rochelle and we've been friends ever since. From the shallow, fake people of the dorms to the fringes of APU's then progressive crevices, Rochelle went from evangelical christian to a shade of Buddhism and a heart for social justice. Her identity as a mixed-race person who is deeply thoughtful and always seeking truth has made her into an amazing person today.
...
2025-01-141h 08
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Caleb Martin- From Closeted Rural Church Music to Coming Out and a Life of Music and Composing in LAYou've probably heard Caleb Martin's music somewhere on TV. I met Caleb in our music community through Shin Kawasaki, whose music you hear every week on Chapel Probation. But I had no idea Caleb had an evangelical background until just the past couple of years when we started chatting on IG about religious trauma. And I'm glad we did chat because it gave me the perfect excuse to talk to him, someone I've admired for the past 10 years or so. The admiration I have for such a fine musician and composer is still there, but now I also admire...
2025-01-071h 14
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Chaz: Host of the Excommunication Station and a Christmas MessageIt's Christmas Eve and this means different things for everyone. Some have the family gathering with food and laughter. Many do not. Chaz grew up in an unhappy family that was fully devoted to the horrific teachings of a backwards church. He endured every kind of abuse there is before growing up and finding his way out.
As a co-host of the Excommunication Station, Chaz pushes back at the harmful parts of christian culture and politics. And as a father and husband, he is healing from his childhood while fostering a loving and supportive family life.
2024-12-241h 44
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- David Olsen, Ph.D- From Closeted Cedarville Fundamentalists to Chair of Comm Studies at Cal State LADr. Olsen was that kid who witnessed to his elementary teachers and still got A's. In college, he poked theological holes in his Cedarville classmates' theologies and was still popular. But ultimately, his quest for knowledge and truth caused him to deconstruct his fundamentalist faith and fully accept his identity as a queer man. Despite emerging from Cedarville with mostly fond memories, Dr. Olsen recognized that the evangelical culture's toxic views of queerness made many students, faculty, and staff suffer greatly, with some losing their friends and family, and some even taking their own lives. With that in mind...
2024-12-171h 17
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Rebecca Williamson- Moody Bible Institute Student and EmployeeWe're back at Moody this week with Rebecca Williamson. Not only do we get the scoop on the expected racism and misogyny, we actually get a practical look at what life under Project 2025 will be like. That's right. Attending christian schools is the perfect preview for Project 2025. It's just that instead of being limited to these campuses, the bizarre, oppresive rules will be applied to the entire country. In years past, Rebecca's story would be a painful reminder of the horrible treatment of women in fundamentalist settings, but alas, here we are, looking to it as a primer for...
2024-12-101h 27
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- REAP w Erin and CrystalLGBTQIA students, faculty, and staff at chrisitian schools have always faced bigotry and discrimination. Since the election a few weeks ago, that bigotry and discrimination has increased at alarming levels. Although there is uncertainty about the future of Title 9 protections, the fact is that queer people have not been safe at christian schools and this will only worsen in the coming years as schools might not even need to justify their systemic queerphobia with exemptions to Title 9. REAP, the Religious Exemption Accountability Project is now a full-functioning 501c3 organization and is ready to support LGBTQIA people in christian schools...
2024-11-261h 17
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Donavon Delisle-SA Survivor Turned Deconstruction PodcasterDonavon Delisle grew up in a nightmarish household of bizarre christianity and an abusive father who controlled everything. As awful as Donavon's story is, it falls within the "normal" area of christian households for the simple fact that it was patriarchal. Sexual, physical, and emotional abuse may have been factors in the house, but these were all under the umbrella of patriarchal normalcy. If it's acknowledged at all, it's forgiven and even sanctioned. Because the bible says so. That settles it.
But Donavon found love and friendship outside of religion and clawed his way out. He is...
2024-11-121h 35
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Tori Williams Douglass- Christian Homeschool to Anti-Racist EducatorTori Williams Douglass is back on Chapel Probation to talk about her homeschooling experience, which was more home indoctrination into fundamentalist chrsitianity than home education. But she asked questions and sought answers, which is a recipe for disaster in that world. We also talk about Content Warning and how it can help us heal from our educational and church pasts.
Be sure to check out Tori's podcast, White Homework and Go Home Bible, You're Drunk with co-host Justin Gentry.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and...
2024-11-051h 20Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4: "Julie" Former EV School Math Teacher Tells All"Julie," (not her real name) has been listening to Chapel Probation for a while and came to a SoCal ExVangelical hang at my house a few months ago. She told me about her time teaching at a well-known Christian school in the area, and I was struck by how similar our stories were. Like me, the whole experience contributed greatly to her deconstruction, forcing her to choose her humanity over the bigotry embedded in evangelical culture, particularly against LGBTQIA people. Julie tells her story of how she got into and out of this culture and how she has been...
2024-10-151h 30
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Maggie Harrigan: Hello Deconstructionists Podcast Host and Gordon College AlumnOne of the new hosts in the Dauntless Media Collective, Maggie Harrigan is a graduate of Gordon College who came onto Chapel Probation to talk about her experiences there and her life since. She found some good professors and even better friends while at Gordon who helped her to deconstruct her fundamentalist beliefs and forge a new worldview based on truth and love. Today, Maggie hosts the Hello Deconstructionists podcast where she talks with a diverse collection of guests about their lives outside of their former evangelical upbringings.
You can hear Scott on Hello Deconstructionists here.
2024-10-081h 05
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Desiree McCullough- From SBC Pastors Wife to Sexual EmpowermentEarlier this year, I read an amazing piece in the Huffington Post about a woman who was once a pastor's wife who left the church and ended up opening up her marriage to explore dating and sexuality for the first time. I immediately thought this woman would fit in beautifully with our Content Warning community...only to discover she had actually been at Content Warning. I somehow didn't meet her there, but it made sense. And having her on Chapel Probation to tell her story and talk about her new explorations of her body and her sexual identity was...
2024-09-171h 19
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4: Horny Chapel #3 Keiko Agena Talks Purity and Gilmore GirlsThis week we are joined by a special guest, our dear friend
Keiko Agena. Keiko is best known for her role as Lane Kim on the show Gilmore
Girls, but she is also a writer, artist, and beloved member of our AAPI arts
and activist community in Los Angeles. With her own real-life evangelical past
to draw on, she goes deep in analyzing her Lane Kim role as we talk about the
dangers and harms to young women inside of purity culture. Gilmore Girls
superfan, Priska, unleashes 16 years of pent up questions, making this
conversation must-listen for all Gilmore...
2024-09-101h 15Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Hannah Lee: Korean American Church, Ski Pants Demon, and Purity Culture Survivor and ArtistHannah Lee knew early on that life inside of her Korean American church was far too restrictive for her. And even though she felt that church life was deeply embedded into life as a Korean American, she saw its limitations as a curious, passionate person who valued art and people outside of the church. From her mom trying to exercise demons who would have her buy ski pants (true story) to the damage of purity culture in the 90's, Hannah broke free in early adulthood and has carved out a life outside. She found queer community and art to...
2024-09-031h 18
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Marla Taviano Returns to Talk Poem Art Therapy and Terrible Christian MenMarla Taviano returns this week to talk about how her latest book of poetry, Poem Art Therapy, can help all women who've been through terrible marriages and divorces in the christian world. Just as her White Girl Learning work reflects Marla's journey as she decolonizes her mind regarding race, Poem Art Therapy reflects her clap back against patriarchy and shitty christian marriages and men. She reads from her book at the end and the episode wraps with a track from Scott's old band, Band Moto, that perfectly represents Marla's and our feeling towards terrible men.
For the...
2024-08-201h 20
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Clare McIvor- Australian NAR Homeschooling SurvivorClare McIvor grew up in the toxic Christian Nationalist movement known as the New Apostolic Reformation. This included all of those damn 7 Mountains, and it forced her to deny all of the natural aspects of her humanity. After fighting to get out, she has educated herself and armed herself with knowledge and courage to fight against that world and its insidious agenda to take over the world for White fundamentalist Jesus.
You can find all of Clare's work here.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asi...
2024-08-131h 15
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation Collab- The Horny Chapel Episode 1The first episode of the Horny Chapel, a collaboration with Priska of the Two Horny Goats podcast. We introduce this limited series with a look back at our youth and early adulthood and break down the ins and outs, so to speak, of purity culture. And we talk about where this series will go in the coming episodes. In the end, we hope to help everyone become sex-positive and love themselves. Be sure to subscribe to the separate podcast feed and follow us on Instagram.
Join the Horny Chapel Discord server to keep the conversation going.
2024-08-061h 26
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Sheila Chappelle- Freed-Hardiman Pastor to Deconstruction MentorSheila Chappelle has come such a long way from being a student at an oppressively high control school that had a wild counter culture. She had to remove herself from this environment and ultimately this religion altogether to overcome her finely honed skills of keeping secrets. But she's overcome that by getting sober and transitioning into her true self, and now she helps others heal from religious trauma.
You can follow her popular Tik Tok here.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate...
2024-07-301h 16Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Seth- Deconstructed Because of Bob Jones IIISeth survived 2 years at Bob Jones only because he figured out how to actually live life. But this required a significant amount of deception and rides in trunks of cars, so it was just a matter of time before he asked himself if all the effort was worth it. When he challenged the school's racist prohibition of interracial dating, arguing directly with Bob Jones III, himself, the experience jettisoned him from Christianity.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at a...
2024-07-231h 13
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Peter Hull- The Chapel Probation Champ of Grace CollegeWe're back with a traditional Chapel Probation episode talking to Peter Hull, a Gen X dude who almost never went to chapel while at Grace College. He only stayed for 5 semesters, but he got a taste of shitty christian higher ed. We talk purity culture and the struggles of finding oneself after faith in the aftermath of Grace College.
Here's a link to the artist Peter mentions, Alannah Sabbatini.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an...
2024-07-161h 17
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4: Christa Brown- SBC Abuse Survivor and Activist for JusticeChrista Brown was a victim of horrible sexual abuse as a child by her SBC youth pastor. This took place in what she calls, "Baptistland," and this is the title of her incredible book. She writes unflinchingly at her childhood filled with abuse at the hands of said pastor and her family members, but she also pulls herself out of Baptistland to become a successful attorney. She eventually takes up the fight against the SBC when she discovers that her experience was not unique in the SBC. In an attempt to expose the coverup that was systemically engineered at...
2024-07-091h 13
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Dave Galvan: Pentecostal Worship to a Life of Real Music in CommunityI knew Dave Galvan as a friend and bandmate for many years before I learned that he grew up in a strict Pentecostal church. And I learned in this episode that Dave led worship with a black Les Paul copy at that church. Epic. When you know people outside of religion, you can just live and enjoy life, so I was a little anxious making Dave go back through his early days, but that's what bandmates do. We go on each other's podcasts and talk about depressing shit.
For the first time I'm including music Dave and...
2024-07-021h 25
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Mark: The Pentecostal to IVCF to War to Goth Club PipelineEver since I started this podcast, I've wanted my friend Mark to come on to tell his story. But even more has happened since early 2022, so I'm actually glad he finally agreed to come over and do this. It's a story of a common upbringing in high control pentacostalism to the lighter theologies of Inter Varsity Christian Fellowship at the beginning. But life got pretty damn scary for Mark after he joined the Navy while in medical school. After seeing up-close the horrors of war, he came home with his faith severely challenged. And then we almost lost him...
2024-06-252h 13
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4 Erica Smith- Sexual Healing After Purity CultureSex educator Erica Smith did not grow up in Purity Culture, but she has learned about how damaging it is for men and women and for society. She has dedicated her life's work to helping people heal from their patriarchal pasts that stunted their development as sexual humans and move forward to explore their bodies and their sexuality. With a deep understanding of race, gender, and the maddening behaviors of fundamentalists, Erica is well-suited to help folks in deconstruction become more whole as humans.
You can check out all of her courses and writings at her website.
2024-06-181h 12
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Taz Ahmed: Art, Activism, and Islam for Social JusticeThe first non-Christian guest on Chapel Probation! Hear Scott's pal Tanzila (Taz) Ahmed tell her story and talk about her life of advocating for human flourishing. Her poetry will rock you to the core, and you'll hear her performace from the 2016 AAPI Heritage event at the White House during President Obama's last year. And whatever you know or don't know about the Islamic faith, Taz will surprise you with her views on art, activism, and life.
Taz was a co-host of the wildly popular Good Muslim/Bad Muslin Podcast, and she is the author of a new...
2024-06-111h 14
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4 Abraham Kim: Korean PK- Badass DrummerWhen you are the son of a big-time Korean pastor who suffers from narcissism and rage, christianity and life are filled with trauma and despair. But Abraham Kim found music and drums early on to help him deal with life, drumming his response to violence at home and oppression in the church. And he found his way out with the help of Talbot (Biola) and found footing in a full, beautiful life with his life partner, Priska, who you heard in Season 3. He's one of my favorite drummers in the world, and one of the best people I know.
2024-06-041h 24
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Episode 100 with traci kato-kiriyamaIf you've read my book, Asian American Apostate, you know how important traci is to me. She's important to a lot of people, really. But she met me when I was still trying to be a Christian, and she helped me become the person I am today. So it makes sense to have her be the guest for the 100th episode of Chapel Probation. You'll hear her story, her perspective as a visitor to APU when I was teaching there, and you'll hear the origins of her art and activism. Get to know this person. One of the best...
2024-05-281h 36
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Ross MontgomeryRoss is the real deal. Solid human who sees all the things we need our White men allies to see. Do I go a little overboard praising him? Sure. Am I sorry about that? Hell no. Anyone who steps away from privilege to engage in the complexities of other peoples' lives is awesome in my book. Throughout Ross's christian life, he challenged assumptions and pushed back at racism, homophobia, sexism, and all manner of bigotry. And I appreciate the hell out of him.
CW- Evangicubes, stumblebragging, and pickleball
And a little sketch with Holly from...
2024-05-211h 17
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- Pastor Trey FergusonPastor Trey is the author of Theologizin Bigger from Lake Drive Books, and he is a solid human. From a wild college experience at the University of Miami, Trey found himself at a fundamentalist seminary and eventually dropped out. He found a home at a much more open-minded seminary and now is a pastor and social media presence, pushing back at the worst parts of Christianity and spreading wisdom and love to everyone. Even Asian American Apostates.
Trey is also the creator of the New Living Treyslation podcast and a co-host of the Three Black Men podcast.
2024-05-141h 15
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4 Lisa Christy (Grove City College)The first full episode of Season 4 has Lisa Christy from Grove City College. She got duped into going to this Libertarian and Presbyterian school and ended up staying. She found community in the "rebel" crowd and started a significant sports revolution at the school.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!
Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and Shin Kawasaki and Wingo Shackleford
Join the Chapel Probation Patreon to support Scott and for bonus content.
Join the Chapel Probation Face...
2024-05-071h 11Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s4- An Introduction to the PodcastAnd we're back. Heading into the 100th episode. This one is #95. We look back on some clips, bits, and songs of the past 3 seasons as we look forward to the shenanigans coming in season 4.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!
Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and Shin Kawasaki and Wingo Shackleford
Join the Chapel Probation Patreon to support Scott and for bonus content.
Join the Chapel Probation Facebook group to continue the conversations.
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2024-04-3052 min
Chapel ProbationNew Collab Coming Repost: Chapel Probation s3- Priska- From PK to the Two Horny Goats PodcastUPDATE: Get to know Priska if you haven't already. She will be collaborating with Scott to bring you a BIPOC-centered, AAPI-flavored podcast about leaving evangelical Purity Culture. Coming soon!
About 11 years ago, I went to a Tuesday Night Cafe and saw a young woman in her early 20's perform there for the first time. Priska's voice and playing floored us as she performed her original songs, and she immediately became part of our community as an incredible singer/songwriter and all-around amazing human. As I got to know her, I discovered that she was in the process...
2024-02-241h 19
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3 Valentine's Day SpecialIt's a bromance that eclipses the love of women. It's playful, raw, and unabashed. God has made men in his image, and that image is good, so young christian men at evangelical schools not only proudly display their dicks and balls, they create ways to interact with them. In this episode, we look at the practices and we laugh a little, but we also worry that this entitled, rather domineering display of manhood might have sadder and more insidious implications. These are christian men, after.
We are joined by Tori and Justin on the Go Home Bible...
2024-02-131h 51
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3 WrapA thank you to all of you who listen and a preview of things to come.
Be sure to register for the Content Warning livestream which happens Feb 17-18. Or better yet, come on out to Portland to hang with us.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University is available now!
Music by Scott Okamoto, Jenyi, Azeem Khan, and Shin Kawasaki and Wingo Shackleford
Join the Chapel Probation Patreon to support Scott and for bonus content.
Join the Cha...
2024-02-0616 min
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Angela Herrington- From Wesleyan to Deconstruction AuthorYou've probably heard of or seen Angela Herrington through her online events or the Faith Deconstruction Cafe on Facebook, and you might have wondered, what is her back story? Well here it is. Angela has a book due out Feb 20, How to Deconstruct Your Faith Without Losing Yourself, and she did time on Chapel Probation to tell her story of coming out of just about every Wesleyan school in Indiana, including seminary, to becoming a valuable resource for people leaving toxic religious faith.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conv...
2024-01-301h 13
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Jon Turney- A Life of Searching for TruthJon Turney is the co-host of the This Is Not Church podcast with his brother and previous Chapel Probation guest, Nat. He has written a novel, RJ the Astronaut, which is reminiscent of CS Lewis's science fiction work with a modern twist. Jon spent is youth and young adult life trying to find answers to his deep questions about life and faith, and this quest is reflected in his thoughtful novel about an astronaut stranded on a space ship, finding deep conversation with...someone or something.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Daun...
2024-01-231h 16
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- The Sexvangelicals- Jeremiah and JuliaChristian colleges often tout their illustrious alumni who accomplish great things in the christian world. Jeremiah and Julia won't likely be listed in such lists for Abilene Christian or Calvin college. That's because they are licensed sex therapists who promote sexual wellbeing in all of its forms. Their podcast, the Sexvangelicals, is a great look into unpacking religious trauam when it comes to sex and sexuality, and a resource for people looking to expand their understanding of sex and sexuality. Here they talk about their religious backgrounds and how they found their way out to do the very important...
2024-01-161h 21
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Justin Gentry- Former Pastor to Go Home, Bible, You're DrunkAnother podcasting hero of mine, Justin Gentry, does time on Chapel Probation. He talks about his time at Indiana Wesleyan and his epic attempt at being a pastor before deciding his humanity and care of others were more important than his faith. After leaving fundamentalist christian faith, Justin has used his voice and perspective, teaming up with Sarah Heath on the RevCovery Podcast and Tori Williams Douglass on the Go Home, Bible, You're Drunk Podcast. Both are popular shows and both offer incredible healing and growth for their respective audiences. Perhaps most importantly, Justin works out to remain a...
2024-01-091h 20
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Esther Tseng- Food and Social Justice after FaithEsther Tseng is a badass food blogger and writer who wrote the article, The Silence of My White Friends After Atlanta, back in 2021. She captured what a lot of us were feeling during a time when our AAPI community felt targeted by rabid, ignorant MAGA Trumpers. But before she became a renowned food writer and social justice advocate, Esther grew up in a fundamentalist christian home that hindered her growth as a human. Through progressive church and therapy, she found her way out of faith altogether, finding identity in community and food. Check out her Instagram to experience her...
2024-01-021h 14
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Tim Mills- The Harmonic Atheist (BJU)It may seem a little harsh to post an episode the day after xmas with the creator of the Harmonic Atheist youtube channel, it just kinda worked out that way. Tim Mills is a self-described atheist who, like so many others this season, devoted his life to absolute adherence to fundamentalist Christianity. But his quest for the truth ultimately led him right out of faith, despite the horrible cost of losing friends and family. But he's doing good work, hosting the conversations that need to be had and pointing out the dangers of fundamentalist religion.
Here's the...
2023-12-271h 19
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Ryan Mulkowski- IFB, Pensacola, Liberty to Loss of FaithOnce again, we have someone who did everything humanly possible to be a devout, devoted christian only to walk away from fundamentalist, White nationalist christianity. Ryan Mulkowski, the host of the Some Random Thoughts podcast did time on Chapel Probation to share his story of coming up through the violent IFB cult to a soul-crushing semester at Pensacola, to seminary at Liberty to fully extricating himself from the toxic cultiness of those worlds. His life is now dedicated to helping people heal and grow as their true selves.
And since it's the week before christmas, let's do...
2023-12-191h 18
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Jered- Simpson College to Social Justice MathJered held on to his evangelical faith for dear life for a long time. But when he couldn't abide the racism, conservative politics, and weak teachings anymore, he just couldn't stay. To his credit. In our conversation, we talk about rampant nudity in the Simpson College boys dorms, problematic teachings in church, parenting, and...math? Yes, math. Pay attention, kids. This could change your life.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
Scott's book, Asian-American-Apostate- Losing Religion and Finding Myself at an Evangelical University...
2023-12-121h 05Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- "Special K"- An Anonymous Listener Tells Her Story for the First Time"K" had the unique experience of growing up Southern Baptist in Southern California. She went to UCLA fully intending to maintain her deeply held fundamentalist Christian faith and sought to fortify her faith by learning as much as she could from campus ministries and local churches. But K realized she was not satisfied with the answers to her questions. It wasn't even close. After a few powerful realizations, she had to give in to what her heart and a mind were telling her: The bible was flawed, and she faced a crisis of faith. But this is a story...
2023-12-111h 33Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Kit- IBLP to SBC to FreedomKathleen, aka Kit, will tell you she was infantilized by her parents from time her family entered the IBLP world until she was in her early 20's. In the patriarchal, abusive, and oppressive world of IBLP, going to a Southern Baptist Convention college was a breath of fresh...er air. Freshness being relative in this metaphor, Kit, found freedom in SBC college and even got up the courage to finally break free of her bizarrely overprotective parents who really just wanted to keep her as a little girl until she could be handed off to a husband. Through health...
2023-12-051h 09
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Sarah Hayward- Author of Giving Up GodLike many of us, Sarah Henn Hayward did everything she could to remain a christian. She read books, she asked questions, and she learned to be inclusive and affirming. And everything she did to remain helped her deconstruct all the way out of christianity. It's not so much a "slippery slope" as it is a snowball succumbing to gravity as it rolls down a hill, gathering mass and momentum. And it's a glorious ride.
Chapel Probation is part of the Dauntless Media Collective
Join the Dauntless Media Discord for more conversation with all the podcast communities.
2023-11-211h 06
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Ryan Stollar- Child Liberation TheologyRyan "RL" Stollar is an invaluable online presence, writing about homeschooling and child liberation theology on his blog and for many online publications. His new book, The Kingdom of Children, is a must-read for those of us interested in fighting the fundamentalist christian parenting movements that seek to indoctrinate children with harmful ideologies. With resources like Ryan, we can use the Bible against the evangelicals.
The bonus segment is a rendition of an old blog post I did when my kids were young. In it, I decry parenting norms and call for an end to Christmas. You...
2023-11-141h 16
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Simon Graham- Deconstructing Whiteness and PatriarchyI met Simon Graham during my last year at UC San Diego, and though we've rarely seen each since that year, we've kept in touch, marking our growth as people, as husbands, and as fathers in this complex world. And Simon is one of the finest humans I've had the pleasure of knowing. In the past year, we've talked about our views on race, gender, patriarchy, and all aspects of life, and I knew I wanted to have a conversation with him on Chapel Probation. Think of this as an adjacent conversation to our usual talk of religious deconstruction...
2023-11-071h 16
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- A Conversation with Jo LuehmannI bonded with Jo Luehmann last year over our shared love of comedian Atsuko Okatsuka, and I even had the honor of introducing Jo to Atsuko. Two epic women for sure. In this bonus episode while I'm on vacation, Jo and I talk about our books while sitting on a bench in Central Park just a stone's throw from one of Turmp's towers. Jo's forthcoming book, Predatory God is due out next year, and she's currently in the editing phase, which can be a soul-crushing part of the writing process. From the haunting voices of our past selves to...
2023-10-3148 min
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- PDX Ben- Vanguard to Seminary to Great DadBen is a friend I first met at the epic PDX meetup last year. He had told me a little about his past as an evangelical who wanted to be a pastor or some kind of biblical scholar, but I had no idea how far he had come from his early adulthood. It's really an honor to bring you this story that goes all the usual places with problematic evangelical culture and dodgy theology and ends up with Ben just trying to heal and be the best father and partner he can be. I was moved by Ben's willingness...
2023-10-241h 13
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Kristin Luna- A Sister 9 from APUBack at APU with another of the badass Sisters 9 writing group. Kristin Luna, aka K-wing, was such an important person to me. She was part of the group of students who saw me and welcomed me in as a fellow fringe/bad person at APU. I remembered my mentor professors who let me into their personal lives at UC San Diego, and I allowed myself to be that professor with them. And Kristin being an amazing writer meant we spent a lot of time workshopping her work and talking about life. I saw her go through some of the...
2023-10-171h 28
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Timothy Cooper- Newly Deconverted and Kicking Ass after Masters CollegeI spend way too much time trying to figure out how fundamentalist, conservative White folks become enlightened and caring of the world around them. We may never know, but meeting Tim Cooper has given me hope. Tim deconverted slowly over time and taught himself to interrogate first his faith and then his worldview. And in a relatively short time, he has become an incredible human being, far from his religious and White-centered past. As recently as 2022, he was still trying to live as a christian, but no more. After going to Masters College, he asked all the questions even...
2023-10-101h 28
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Nat Turney-Author of The Seeds of De(CON)struction.I was a guest on the podcast, This Is Not Church with Jon and Nat Turney a few months ago, and we had a great time talking about my book and rock music. Sometimes you meet people, and immediately click, and this was the case with me and the Turney boys. So when I heard that Nat was publishing his book, The Seeds of De(Con)struction, I messaged him to come do time on Chapel Probation. And we had an epic conversation about life, theology, and living life constantly searching for truth.
You can hear my...
2023-10-031h 19
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Jon Carl Lewis- Sex Education for All of UsJon Carl Lewis went to Princeton, but he sought out the repressive Christian elements he grew up with, hoping to "pray the gay away." But, he deconstructed after some horrific and lonely times to progressive forms of Christianity, eventually finding his way to leather bars in Boston and a life of sexual liberation. He has written and taught about sex and sexuality, even in largely White spaces like the Wild Goose Festival, using all of his life experiences to help others deconstruct their guilt-ridden purity culture pasts find liberation through their bodies and their sexuality.
Here are...
2023-09-261h 18
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Xeres Villanueva- From APU into the MysticXeres survived APU as a neuro-divergent Filipina woman and went on to explore personal and generational healing through community activism and explorations into the mystical aspects of religion. Leaning into her culture and her identity have helped her to find ways to help others with her project, The Estuary Moments. And I've had the privilege of knowing and witnessing Xeres' development from her freshman year to now, almost 15 years later. She is a staff member of the beloved Tuesday Night Cafe, an arts and activism space in Los Angeles.
You can read more about Xeres' work in...
2023-09-191h 01
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3: Father Shannon TL Kearns- A Transition to the DivineShannon Kearns grew up in a fundamentalist family and church knowing he was outside of the parameters of acceptable christian living. He resolved to live as a celibate queer woman and become a youth pastor, and even did so for a time. But he eventually found a fuller life and a viable faith by transitioning. It was this new perspective as a man secure in his identity that unlocked the missing elements of christian faith and a life fully-lived.
Shannon's book, In the Margins: A Trans Man's Journey With Scripture, gives us 9 examples of scripture celebrating life...
2023-09-051h 09
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Brandon Flanery: Sex and the Divine after YWAMBrandon Flanery grew up in fundamentalist evangelical culture, but he knew early on he was gay. This caused him to dig in harder to his faith, leading him to an evangelical school and eventually YWAM. But he eventually discovered that embracing his sexuality gave him a peace and joy about himself, and he has since explored all manner of experiences leading him to better understand himself and the world. Brandon has a new book out now from Lake Drive Books, Stumbling: A Sassy Memoir About Coming Out of Evangelicalism.
Chapel Probation is part of...
2023-08-291h 16
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Heather Owens: IBLP/ATI SurvivorHeather Owens was literally born of IBLP/ATI indoctrination, the result of her parents deciding to resume filling up their "quivers" for christs by having "reversal babies." We are grateful that Heather is here, though, and her story sheds more bad light on the IBLP/ATI world with its systemic abuse of babies and children and its shielding of powerful men who groom and assault women.
Heather may have been born with some health issues, but her three-valve heart is strong, as you'll hear. From dutiful, yet repressed, childhood to an out and proud bisexual woman living...
2023-08-221h 03
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Andrew Pledger: Surviving BJUAndrew Pledger grew up in a Christian fundamentalist cult (IFB) that led him to attend Bob Jones University. He knew he was gay, and he knew things were not right with the faith that criminalized his very existence. But as a young man, he had no options to escape his family's control or the bizarre, abusive rules of BJU. At first, Andrew tried to put his head down, follow the rules, and get out with a degree. But BJU, a global pandemic, and his own development as a human made that impossible. He pushed back, got expelled, and has...
2023-08-151h 27
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Em Torres: The Life She WroteBefore Chapel Probation and before Asian American Apostate existed, Em Torres invited me to come onto her podcast, The Life She Wrote. I had written her a theme song, but other than that, I didn't have anything public out there, but Em saw me as someone with something to say. I'll always be grateful for that.
Em went to Vanguard University for a year, trying her best to follow God's will, but when it became financially impossible for her to continue there, she started to question what God's will even meant. She attended and worked at churches...
2023-08-081h 37
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation bonus segment: OK, OppenheimerCW: descriptions of nuclear war
I wrote a longer version of this in my substack, but here is something I wanted to say on this platform. I had to stop and regroup a few times, and I even had to omit a few lines because I just couldn't say them out loud.
But I'm not OK with Oppenheimer. I'm not saying anything against anyone who enjoyed it, as I'm sure it's a well-crafted movie. I'm just thinking big picture and how this historical figure is now viewed as an Oscar-worthy film, a complex genius, and...
2023-08-0205 min
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Jazz Robertson- Follow the Drums to DeconstructionJazz Robertson grew up and came of age playing drums in churches. From CCM to gospel, she found connection to musicians and music which kept her involved in church. But the connection to the bible and God never quite happened, despite her best efforts. But like a lot of us, she held on to the music in church until she just couldn't anymore. For both of us, music kept us in church and it led the way out and into the world.
You'll hear clips of our jam session and learn about the bond between musicians, which...
2023-08-011h 18
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Jessica Goforth- IBLP/ATI Nightmare SurvivorIf you've watched the documentary, Shiny Happy People, you know some of the horrific details of the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) and the Advanced Training Institute (ATI). Both are systems that drive a cult that became mainstream when The Learning Channel aired too many seasons of that insipid bullshit about the Duggar family. America ate that shit up and made the Duggars the placid faces of IBLP. Sickening. We've since learned of the abuse and grooming of young women to be used by the men in power at IBLP/ATI. Content Warning: a lot of talk of...
2023-07-251h 35
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Tim Mathis- Asbury to "Dirt Bag" LivingThink you know about evangelical revivals? Did you hear about the one at Asbury this year? This episode with author and life adventurer, Tim Mathis, will shed new light on how revivals erupt, so to speak. I promise you, it's not what you think. Or if it is, you're probably a regular listener of Chapel Probation.
Tim Mathis shares his personal stories and observations of his time at Asbury, and he makes a compelling case that revivals and repressed sexuality are connected. We even have a sketch to explain it.
CW-The sketch is R-rated, so...
2023-07-111h 17
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3: Gail- Full Mutuality in Life and PodcastingOne of the best people I've met in the past couple years doing this work is Gail, the co-host of the Full Mutuality Podcast. I want everyone who listens to Chapel Probation to also get to know the other podcasters in our Dauntless Media group, and Gail is one of the founding members. From rough family beginnings to foster care, Gail grew up in Canada in highly religious settings. But she, like her fiance, Nate Nakao, deconstructed to become an amazing human with a heart for all people. We talk about her story and her life and perspective today.
2023-07-041h 21
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- The Religious Exemption Accountability Project (REAP) Erin Green and Paul SouthwickI admit it. There was a time I has zero hope for the LGBTQIA students and faculty at evangelical schools. But that was before REAP came on the scene bringing legal firepower to the fight against the inhumane bigotry and discrimination all evangelical schools are guilty of promoting and enforcing. The tide is turning now. Paul Southwick started REAP after working with trans students at an evangelical school, and Erin Green, an established queer activist on evangelical campuses in her own right, joined up to make one hell of a badass duo. You'll hear how Paul and Erin started...
2023-06-271h 28
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Janice Lagata: Inside Hillsong "College" and Hillsong NYCYou've seen (hopefully) The Secrets of Hillsong. You lamented how it centered Carl Lentz cosplaying Zoolander at his "corporate" job (That wasn't just me, right?). And you were introduced to Janice Lagata, if you didn't already know her work. So forget Carl and listen to Janice tell her story of attending Hillsong "College" in Australia and being part of the beginning of Hillsong NYC. More importantly, listen to her talk about getting out and moving on. Janice's podcasts, God Has Not Given, and Bad Words, are great resources for all of us moving on from evangelical faith.
2023-06-201h 23
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3- Peter Fenton- From Wheaton to Off-BroadwayPeter Fenton is a young man just 6 years out of college at Wheaton, and he is killing it. His creative output for this year alone is incredible, and his past life as an evangelical has served to fuel his creative energy. He's got a film he produced making the festival rounds, and his play, Abandon All Hope is set to premier at the Rougue Theater Festival Off-Broadway this Saturday night. A lot has happened in a short amount of time for Peter professionally and personally. His faith, his sexuality, and his career path have all been affected by his...
2023-06-061h 23
Chapel ProbationChapel Probation s3 Chrissy StroopWe're back with Season 3!
We start the season with someone who helped Scott get started in the deconstruction world, Dr. Chrissy Stroop. Everyone who listens to this podcast is likely familiar with Chrissy's work, but she joins us to talk about her educational experiences and how they shaped who she is today.
Dr. Stroop is a co-editor in the groundbreaking Empty the Pews anthology of stories of deconstruction.
Support Dr. Stroop by joining her Patreon here.
Update: Despite not being monetized, Spotify has flagged my Songs of Deconstruction...
2023-04-2547 min
Chapel ProbationS2.E32- After Hours with Ariel ClimerAriel has been a big supporter of Chapel Probation as a moderator for the Facebook group and the inspiration behind in-person events. She attended APU and is connected to A Scott and Mahrs Shoppman as a housemate in the famed Synchronicity LA house, which was an intentional community formed by some APU alumni. I wanted to hear Ariel's thoughts on the podcast and her own experiences at APU, so it's kind of a hybrid episode.
We want to hear your sexiest stories from christian or religious colleges and universities which we will feature in the upcoming anti-purity c...
2023-01-1742 min
Chapel ProbationS2.E20: Michael Smith- The Prof Who Thought it was an Academic Institution (APU)Like some professors at evangelical schools, Michael Smith came to APU assuming he would be teaching at an academic institution. He quickly learned that the school was more concerned with teaching fundamentalist and conservative lifestyles than actual academic learning. Combined with the school's obsession with criminalizing sexuality and any faith traditions outside of evangelical christianity, Professor Smith struggled to find his footing. Faculty and administration seemed wary of his Episcopalian faith and status as a single man. Things got better when he got married, but the seeds of discontent were planted. Like so many other awesome profs, he left...
2022-11-221h 10
Chapel ProbationS2.E18: Janelle, Tim, Kevin, and Scott- "The Bad" Alumns from Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship UCSDEven though the 4 of us went to an actual "top-notch" university, UC San Diego, our involvement with Inter-Varstiy Christian Fellowship meant our faith was in constant action and activity. We didn't have to deal with a university-wide culture of racism, misogyny, and anti-LGBTQIA hatred, but we embedded ourselves in a clatch of moderately conservative christianity that served to tamp down significant parts of our identities and sexuality. For Tim and Kevin, their experiences as closeted gay men added one more layer of shame, fear, and pain. Even still we were leaders in IVCF. Kevin was even a staff person...
2022-11-151h 27
Chapel ProbationAfter Hours #2 Mahrs Schoppman- Psychotherapy for Queer Ex-ChristiansMahrs Schoppman is a graduate of APU who developed his identity as both a queer person and a deconstructed christian while there. He is grateful to APU for providing an easy foil to pick apart the hollow theology of evangelicalism and for introducing him to his community of fellow queer students, with whom he is still friends to this day. He talks about his work with queer clients seeking healing from religious trauma and responds to some of the stories on this podcast. He was actually introduced anonymously in the finale of season 1 when A Scott talked about their...
2022-11-1041 min
Chapel ProbationS2.E14: Carla- The Answer to Patriarchy and Purity Culture (Grace University)Carla Godwin grew up in Nebraska in a conservative Christian household. She settled on Grace Bible College in Omaha knowing there were limited career options for women in that world. While being constantly reminded of the expectations for women, Carla began pushing back against some interpretations of the Bible. But patriarchy and purity culture kept forcing her to question even more of her faith, leading her to join more progressive churches and organizations. Even still, purity culture was ingrained into the heads of the men, highlighting the rift between men and women in christian settings.
I was fortunate enough to m...
2022-10-251h 16
Chapel ProbationS2.E13: Zach Malm- The Megachurch Destroyer (Seattle Pacific University)Zach Malm came from a family prominent in the Vineyard church world and went to Seattle Pacific University where he was sorely disappointed in both the theological depth and the academic rigor. He ended up seeking these things at a new startup church called Mars Hill. Yes, that Mars Hill. The good news Is that Zach would eventually be credited with bringing Mars Hill down when he revealed to the world that a misogynistic asshole posting on the church website was none other than head pastor Mark Driscoll, himself. He deconstructed during the Trump era and now is a...
2022-10-181h 24
Chapel ProbationS2.E8- Matthew- The Bad and Mean Professor Magnet (APU)Matthew came to APU looking like the prototypical APU man. He was a White guy from Orange County who attended a megachurch, but he came to school knowing he was not a straight man. As he navigated his faith and tried to reconcile it with his sexuality, he quickly discovered that he needed to push back at the professors spewing lies and hate at LGBTQIA people. He grew tired of the ridiculously bad academics in his liberal studies and education courses, so he took a second major in psychology to get some sense of an academic experience. It turns...
2022-09-131h 12
Chapel ProbationS2.E7: Ashley Dunston- The Woman Who Defied the Patriarchy (Vanguard University)Ashley Dunston went to Vanguard University in Orange County, California, where she realized that evangelical culture coddled and supported her abusive father more than it supported her. Women get asked to forgive abuse from men all the time, and Ashley was asked to do everything she could to reconcile with a man who didn't respect her as a person for the sake of following the "biblical" principle of family values. Along the way, Ashley began deconstructing her faith, with help from some solid professors who looked out for her, and she started to live life without evangelical fear. She...
2022-09-061h 08
Chapel ProbationS2.E5: Tori Williams Douglass- The Leader We All Need (Northwest College)Tori Williams Douglass is an educator and podcaster who went from a cult-like family upbringing to an Assemblies of God bible college. Thankfully, she dropped out after just one year of the typical racism, sexism, queerphobia, and annoying theo-bro's, thus continuing and accelerating her deconstruction from christianity altogether. Today, her White Homework podcast and website is a crucial resource for all who are decolonizing our minds from anti-Blackness, and her Go Home Bible; You're Drunk podcast with co-host Justin Gentry uses humor and the hosts' extensive knowledge of the Bible to point out the absurdities in both the texts...
2022-08-231h 03
Chapel Probation"Science" at APUThis was the 5th Episode of Season 1, and one of the more popular ones at that, but out of an abundance of caution, I moved it behind a paywall. But it's back by popular demand! 2 new "ads" featuring the best of "conservative christian" organizations, Plaulty (Psalty's cousin) and a Metal Men's Rights Science group.
Ryan and Anthony talk about being science majors in a place stuck between trying to be a respected academic institution while still upholding the anti-science values of the evangelical world. It's both hilarious and tragic. Both men talk about their deconstruction at APU an...
2022-05-1949 min
Chapel ProbationEpisode 13: UPDATE: NOW GOES BY AE SCOTT- The First Wave of LGBTQ Hope at APU
Long before Haven, led by Glenda and her friends, found themselves in a national spotlight, Amy Scott came to APU not yet understanding their identity. Within a year of their time there, they would realize they was not straight, and that this part of their identity was a threat to the fabric of APU's conservative evangelical culture. This also meant, the culture was a very real threat to their fledgling community being formed in the wake of Soul Force's Equality Ride. That event would embolden two students to take a stand against the school's anti-LGBTQ policies...
2022-04-1258 min