Shows
Macro N CheeseEp 315 - Confessions of an Economic Hitman: A Conversation with John PerkinsJohn Perkins is a storyteller. His stories tell of his work as an economic hit man, creator of a death economy that is polluting and consuming itself into extinction. He has served as advisor to the World Bank, UN, IMF, Fortune 500 corporations, and government and business leaders across the globe. “You know, my job was pretty easy, generally speaking, because I was offering the president of a country or his finance minister, whoever, a big loan. And the fact that this loan would help him and his family, his friends – they owned the businesses in most cases – they were...2025-02-1550 min
Macro N CheeseEp 314 - Chaos Fatigue with David and Dai from Call Me Limbo PodcastDepressed about the state of the world? Meet podcast hosts, Dai Poole and David Kugler, who are able to talk about the depressing stuff, yet manage to have a little fun along the way. In November, they brought Steve onto Call Me Limbo because they’re interested in Modern Monetary Theory (smart guys). A few months have passed since then, and things have changed in the US. The episode dives right into the thorny questions of divisiveness and weaponized identity politics. Anything that further divides us is dangerous, but anti-wokeness threatens the very people who are most vulnera...2025-02-081h 03
Macro N CheeseEp 313 - CHE with Clara Mattei“We need to understand the limits of capitalism. Capitalism has serious limits in the sense that it puts exchange value over use value. And this is by definition irrational according to logic of need, but very rational according to logic of profit... But we also need to understand that we are the ones who have produced the system. That's where the empowering voice comes out, because it says, okay, if we have created it, we can also change it. And guess what? The system is really fragile. That's why we need austerity constantly to protect it.”...2025-02-0139 min
Macro N CheeseEp 312 - Sumud: Echoes of Palestine with Malu Halasa & Jordan Elgrably“It's a wound. Palestine is a wound that doesn't go away because it's ignored.” Where there is oppression, there is resistance. Even when it seems invisible to outsiders, it can always be found in the art and culture of the oppressed. Malu Halasa and Jordan Elgrably, of the Markaz Review, talk to Steve about Sumud: A New Palestinian Reader, an anthology of essays, poetry, fiction, memoirs, and art. Sumud is translated to mean ‘steadfastness’ or ‘standing fast.’ Recounting the work of author and human rights lawyer Raja Sheheda, Malu adds: “Sumud is practiced by every...2025-01-2551 min
Macro N CheeseEp 311 - The Electoral Delusion with Jen PerelmanRunning for office is a fool’s errand if you think you can win and radically change the system from within. But an election campaign can serve other purposes for political organizers. A campaign provides a platform, a megaphone... media attention. The process of campaigning puts you in touch with people in the community. As Steve puts it, an election allows you to “build coalitions and radicalize people.” Jen Perelman’s need to run against Debbie Wasserman Schultz was clear: “I knew that we weren't going to win, but we made significant strides in what my bigger mission is...2025-01-181h 01
Macro N CheeseEp 310 - The Inevitability of Luigi Mangione with Jordan CharitonWhen there’s an attack on a high profile (read: white) target in the US, media attention is aimed at the perpetrators. If the act was politically motivated, that fact is either used to explain their psychopathy or dismissed altogether. The December shooting death of a UnitedHealthcare CEO has had a different reaction. As soon as the news broke, public sympathy was drawn to the shooter. The American people have too many horror stories about being denied medical coverage. Jordan Chariton, of Status Coup News, joins Steve to look at the significance of this story as representation of p...2025-01-1158 min
Macro N CheeseEp 309 - Brick by BRICS with Yan LiangHistory doesn’t stand still, and every time we talk about BRICS on this podcast, there’s more to unpack. To understand the significance of BRICS, we must begin with (wait for it) monetary sovereignty. Economist Yan Liang is an expert on China’s economy and MMT. She joins Steve to discuss the evolving role of the BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) and the increasing number of countries becoming involved in challenging US dollar hegemony and the current global financial system. Weaponizing of the US dollar has reached an all-time high. Yan explains the...2025-01-041h 07
Macro N CheeseEp 308 - Working Class MMT with Bill MitchellWhat’s the point of understanding money if we don’t look at the power relations controlling its distribution? Bill Mitchell, a key figure in the development of modern monetary theory, is back for his twelfth appearance on the podcast, beginning with Episode One, Putting the T in MMT. As a key figure in the development of MMT, Bill articulates how this theory fundamentally challenges conventional economic wisdom by asserting that governments, as currency issuers, are not financially constrained in the same manner as households or businesses. This critical insight dispels the prevailing narrative...2024-12-211h 04
Macro N CheeseEp 307 - Rights for Machines? AI's Ethical Future with James BoyleCan you imagine granting personhood to AI entities? Well, some of us couldn’t imagine granting personhood to corporations. And yet... look how that panned out.In this episode, Steve talks with Duke law professor James Boyle about his new book, The Line: AI and the Future of Personhood. James explains the development of his interest in the topic; it began with the idea of empathy. (Then) moved to the idea of AI as the analogy to corporate personhood. And then the final thing – and maybe the most interesting one to me – is how encounters wi...2024-12-1452 min
Macro N CheeseEp 306 - China: Challenging Dollar Dominance with Paul GamblesPaul Gambles is back to help us unpack China's recent issuance of US dollar-denominated sovereign bonds in Saudi Arabia. Paul begins by setting up the historical context. He takes us back to the end of the second World War and the Bretton Woods agreement, designed to bring a new world order, putting the US dollar as the global funding currency. China’s move signals a challenge to the petrodollar system – providing nations with new avenues for financing as an alternative to dollar dependency. Paul looks at the Global South in light of China’s behavior, including t...2024-12-0752 min
Macro N CheeseEp 305 - Trump, the Fed & the Crypto Insurgency with Rohan GreyRohan Grey, who taught us to understand money as a creature of law, is back for his tenth appearance on Macro N Cheese. Steve and Rohan dissect the humor and horror of the political landscape. They make a realistic assessment of the Biden administration and look at figures like Elon Musk and Ramaswamy as part of a new wave of governance setting out to undermine the fabric of federal institutions. The conversation touches on the absurdity of contemporary American politics, where a ‘meme president’ can emerge amidst a cacophony of discontent and confusion. All this against a...2024-11-301h 25
Macro N CheeseEp 304 - Facing Uncomfortable Truths with Yeva NersisyanIn a stunning reversal, the Democrat Party has announced plans to reconnect with its New Deal roots in hopes of regaining the trust of the working class. Haha just kidding! This week, Yeva Nersisyan joins Steve to cut through the cacophony of phony punditry trying to explain the 2024 election results. Spoiler alert: it’s economics. It’s always economics. Yeva points to the stark realities of inflation, highlighting the persistent rise in food and housing costs. She points out that while inflation is often cited as a primary concern, the real issue lies in how US economic policies...2024-11-231h 10
Macro N CheeseEp 303 - Real Resources, Real Power with Fadhel Kaboub"Colonized people have the right to resist." Economist and friend of the podcast Fadhel Kaboub talks with Steve about the effects of global hegemony and the ongoing attempts to shift the balance of power. They look at BRICS, though it’s perhaps too soon to predict its ultimate outcome and influence. Fadhel argues that a true multipolar world cannot emerge without placing the Global South at the center of economic decision-making, challenging the existing economic domination by the US and other nations. The history of colonial exploitation continues to affect the resource-rich region.Fadh...2024-11-161h 10
Macro N CheeseEp 302 - Gaza, Genocide & Empire with Jason Hickel“A capitalist economy requires constant imperialist wars because it has to constantly suppress prices and wages and reorganize production in the global south around accumulation in the core. That is ultimately the system that we have to overcome.” Jason Hickel, who won our hearts a while back by accepting MMT, talks with Steve about the burning issue of our time. (No, not the US election, though they touch on the electoral system.) As much as Gaza is dominating social media, we must continue to stress its place in the capital order. Jason points us to Israel’s true role: sowing cha...2024-11-0952 min
Macro N CheeseEp 301 - Worker to Worker Unionism with Eric BlancAuthor and labor studies professor Eric Blanc talks about worker-led union organizing and why it is superior to the dominant model of staff-intensive unionism.“You just can't get the type of mass movement we need by relying on staff. Even the best staff.” Eric lays out some features of worker-to-worker organizing: Workers are training other workers in the skills they need for a successful union drive. Workers are self-organizing before they affiliate with a union. As a result, the relationship between worker and union is more of...2024-11-0245 min
Macro N CheeseEp 300 - Algorithmic Warfare with Andy Lee Roth**Milestone 300! We dedicate this, the 300th weekly episode, to our loyal listeners, and we wish to recognize the valiant work of our underpaid podcast crew – correction: our unpaid podcast crew – who have put in thousands of hours editing audio, correcting transcripts, writing show notes, creating artwork, and posting promos on social media. To have the next 300 episodes delivered to your inbox as soon as they’re released, subscribe at realprogressives.substack.com Project Censored has been a valuable resource for Macro N Cheese. This week, sociologist Andy Lee Roth talks with Steve about information gatekeeping by big t...2024-10-2659 min
Macro N CheeseEp 299 - Coup Save MMT with Sean St. Heart**Our Substack brings every new episode of this podcast as well timely alerts about our book clubs and webinars and reminders for Tuesday night’s gatherings of Macro ‘n Chill. All this and more, straight to your inbox. Subscribe now: realprogressives.substack.com Recently, Steve appeared with host Sean St. Heart on Coup Save America, a weekly podcast committed to breaking through political rhetoric and focusing our attention on the core problems affecting our nation. The episode’s title was Exploring Modern Monetary Theory with Steve Grumbine, but of course it’s almost impossible to limit an MMT conve...2024-10-191h 08
Macro N CheeseEp 298 - YIMBYism is Code for Gentrification with David FieldsIf NIMBY is the classist rejection of affordable housing ("Not in my back yard”), then YIMBY is sold as the progressive counter to it: “Yes, in my back yard; because I believe affordable housing should be widely available, even in my own neighborhood.” But of course, housing development has nothing to do with the needs of the poor or the working class. It has nothing to do with the public purpose. Steve’s guest, political economist David Fields, explains: “YIMBY is yes to housing in my backyard, but housing for developers to extract profit from land value. So b...2024-10-121h 04
Macro N CheeseEp 297 - Exposing the Titans of Capital with Peter PhillipsThe titans of capital aren’t just the obscenely wealthy. They are the directors of transnational finance companies; they manage the money of the obscenely wealthy.Steve’s guest, political sociologist Peter Phillips, is the author of Titans of Capital: How Concentrated Wealth Threatens Humanity. The titans, he says, have doubled their AUM (assets under management) in the past 5 years.“There's only 117 of them and they manage $50 trillion of capital. That $50 trillion is the core –– almost half of the free-floating capital in the world. And that is what the US calls a vital interest. So, when the US say...2024-10-0548 min
Macro N CheeseEp 296 - Caste, Class and the Capital Order with Charles Derber & Yale MagrassSteve’s guests are Charles Derber and Yale Magrass, authors of Who Owns Democracy: The Real Deep State and the Struggle Over Class and Caste in America. The concept of the deep state has been employed by different political ideologies, most recently the right under Trump. But its existence is real, and its service to the ruling class can be traced back to the founding of the US. Among other ideas, Charles and Yale stress the distinction between shallow democracy and the real thing. From their book’s abstract: “Large corporations, Wall S...2024-09-281h 02
Macro N CheeseEp 295 - Degrowth Through Social Movements with Erin RemblanceWhen people reject the concept of degrowth are they suggesting society continue to allow capital to ravage the earth? Are they saying the countries of the global North should continue exploiting and extracting from the global South? Are they pushing for more growth? Steve’s guest, Erin Remblance is an Australian researcher and activist who was spurred into action six years ago when the IPCC released their special report on global warming of 1.5°C. Since then, Erin has been creating courses, events, and materials that address the crises and work toward solutions. Erin and Steve dis...2024-09-211h 00
Macro N CheeseEp 294 - Euthanizing Rentier Capitalism with Daniel Conceição**Find a transcript of each week’s episode on our Substack, where we also offer links to resources discussed in the interview. Subscribe now at https://realprogressives.substack.com/ Daniel Conceição is back to discuss the social damage of rentier capitalism and the potential to address it through the insights of Modern Monetary Theory. Rentier capitalism derives profit from ownership and manipulation of assets rather than through productive activity. While industrial capitalism also creates inequality, rentier capitalism, or rent seeking, exacerbates the division. State-controlled money creation could nullify some of the speculative advantag...2024-09-1448 min
Macro N CheeseEp 293 - Big Brother Is Watching with Nolan Higdon**Join us Tuesday evenings for Macro ‘n Chill, an informal gathering where we listen to and discuss this podcast. Register here for our September 10th session https://events.teams.microsoft.com/event/29d4cc27-0123-4885-aaa8-6ff95947498d@7d53fbd0-6b43-4143-9400-6b0b36a25e55 Steve’s guest is Nolan Higdon, an author and expert in media literacy. They discuss surveillance in education, which Higdon covers in his book, co-authored with Allison Butler, Surveillance Education: Navigating the Conspicuous Absence of Privacy in Schools.Surveillance capitalism, which emerged in the late 20...2024-09-0757 min
Macro N CheeseEp 292 - The Conflict of Class, Democracy & Universal Basic Services with Tony from 1DimeMacro N Cheese brings you another twist. A couple of months ago, Steve appeared as a guest on 1Dime Radio in a two-part series that we’re now presenting as a single episode. Tony has been on our podcast several times, now Steve is on his turf. The result is a productive meeting of the minds. He and Steve both view the world through a Marxist lens, and they both agree Marxists need MMT. The discussion goes into the American Revolution as they consider the possibility of democracy in a modern capitalist system. They examine bourgeois cont...2024-08-311h 45
Macro N CheeseEp 291 - The Poisoning of America with Jordan CharitonLet us never become immune to shock and outrage over the US government’s failure to guarantee its citizens a safe clean water supply. We must be outraged by the power that private players hold over us all with the blessings and collusion of officials whose titles suggest they should protect us. Investigative journalist Jordan Chariton has been reporting on the Flint water crisis for nearly a decade. His newly published book, We the Poisoned, examines how systemic governmental failures, abetted by municipal, state, and federal authorities, and complicit media, combined to allow the Flint catastrophe. ...2024-08-241h 08
Macro N CheeseEp 290 - After the Collapse with Brett ScottThe 2024 fictional film “Civil War” shows an America that has been fractured into armed factions. It’s not the dystopian fantasy that interests us here, however, it’s the collapse of the currency! In the movie, the US dollar has lost its value, like the fate of Confederate money after the (real) US Civil War. With his imagination piqued by the film, Steve asked Brett Scott, author and monetary theorist, to help us think about the dynamics of commerce, currency, and systemic forces in times of societal collapse and global capitalism. Brett and Steve look at histo...2024-08-171h 17
Macro N CheeseEp 289 - Deprogramming Hasbara with Jonathan Kadmon“I was still a true believer, but doubts were starting to creep in at a certain point when you saw a large segment of our coalition cheering the brutal death of Rachel Corrie under a Caterpillar D9 bulldozer. And then, you know, a month later, cheering for the death of Tom Hurndall who was killed protecting a Palestinian child from Israeli snipers and was shot in the head by an expert marksman looking through a scope.” Jonathan Kadmon is on the leadership team of Real Progressives and writes for the website. He also helps put out this podcast. Today, howe...2024-08-101h 25
Macro N CheeseEp 288 - RP Live Presents: Fiat Socialism with Carlos Garciá HernándezIn June, Real Progressives hosted a webinar with Carlos García Hernández on his book, Fiat Socialism: Achieving the Goals of Socialism Through Modern Monetary Theory. After hearing his Macro N Cheese interview last year, we wanted to open the door for our volunteers to ask questions and engage with Carlos on this topic. He is an important voice applying the insights of MMT to socialist theory. “‘Fiat socialism’ is my name for an open and prosperous society ruled by the principles of the Modern Monetary Theory and functional finance.” In talking about his book, Carlos laid out t...2024-08-031h 37
Macro N CheeseEp 287 - Propaganda, Algorithms & Disinformation with Mischa GeracoulisAccording to Mischa Geracoulis, of Project Censored, media is a public good and journalism is a public service. “Being able to access information, being able to join in, participate in the free flow of information, to have an opinion, to formulate a stance –that is actually considered a human right, under Article 19 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights.” It only follows that censorship is a violation of human rights. Project Censored defines censorship more broadly than a government’s control over the media. It is the suppression of information, whether purposefully or not, by any meth...2024-07-2757 min
Macro N CheeseEp 286 - Modern Monetary Theory and the European Project with Dirk EhntsSteve’s guest this week is Dirk Ehnts, a lecturer and authorwho specializes in modern monetary theory (MMT). They discuss Dirk's new book,"A Simple Guide to the Monetary System," which aims to simplify theoften complex concepts of MMT. They discuss the significance of the Copernican turn to MMT,which refers to the shift in perspective that occurred during the COVID-19pandemic. Dirk explains that the massive increase in government spending andthe lack of inflationary effects challenged conventional economic theories that...2024-07-201h 06
Macro N CheeseEp 285 - We the Poisoned: No One Will Save Us with Jordan CharitonWhen corporations are guilty of poisoning the population, it is newsworthy. When state and local governments are complicit, it is newsworthy. Yet the US media refuses to cover some of the most scandalous and tragic stories of our time, despite overwhelming evidence of corporate and government culpability.Jordan Chariton, CEO of Status Coup, has many years of experience working for both mainstream and independent news organizations. He and Steve discuss the media’s role in perpetuating the distorted narrative. If they’re not ignoring the facts, they’re misrepresenting them. Jordan talks about his continuing coverage...2024-07-131h 01
Macro N CheeseEp 284 - How The West Was Lost with Thomas Fazi**On Tuesday evening we’re gathering for a listening party and discussion of this episode of the podcast. Get the Zoom link here https://realprogressives.org/event/macro-n-chill-284/ If anyone still thinks adopting the Euro was a good idea, this episode should set you straight. Writer and journalist Thomas Fazi joins Steve to talk about the critical issues surrounding the European project, beginning with elite reaction to the recent election of Marine Le Pen in France, which Thomas calls a script that, as an Italian, he has seen play out many times: “And that is one wher...2024-07-0658 min
Macro N CheeseEp 283 - Can Unions Survive the Struggle Within? with Traven Leyshon** For a full transcript of this and every episode of the podcast, go to our website, where you will also find an “Extras” section with information and links to resources discussed in the episode. realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ At Macro N Cheese we’ve been having an ongoing conversation about the need for radical change in the labor movement and the rise of class struggle unionism. Traven Leyshon is president of the Green Mountain Central Labour Council and part of the leadership team of the Vermont State Labour Council. Traven, who has over five decades of...2024-06-2952 min
Macro N CheeseEp 282 - Argentina For Sale with Daniel KostzerWhat happens to a nation when its leaders get in bed with the IMF? In this episode, Steve and his guest Daniel Kostzer look at the case of Argentina under President Javier Milei. Daniel is the Chief Economist of the International Trade Union Confederation. They discuss the recent legislative wins by Milei's government, which have sparked mass protests and civil unrest in the country. The reform bill passed by the Argentine Senate includes sweeping austerity measures, privatization, and labor rights cuts. The conversation delves into the factors contributing to the high inflation rate in Argentina, in...2024-06-221h 04
Macro N CheeseEp 281 - Gaza: Unmasking Empire with Dan KovalikDan Kovalik, author and human rights lawyer, joins Steve to talk about his new book, The Case for Palestine: Why it Matters and Why You Should Care. The conversation goes into the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the concept of settler colonialism, and the current situation in Gaza.They criticize the US government's support for Israel and the lack of accountability for the ongoing genocide. They blame the corporate media for not adequately informing the public about these issues, allowing for a privileged perspective that ignores the suffering. They touch on the role of social medi...2024-06-1547 min
Macro N CheeseEp 280 - MMT Gives Labor Its Wings with Tschaff ReisbergIn this episode, Steve has a conversation with Tschäff (pronounced “Jeff”) Reisberg, the secretary of the Charlotte Metrolina Labor Council and a professional flight attendant, about the vital role of the labor movement through the lens of MMT. They look at the intersection of movement building and labor's role, emphasizing that real economic advocacy should lead to tangible change. Steve contrasts this to the naivety of relying solely on voting within a captured oligarchic system. They discuss historical and current labor struggles, touching on the need for transforming unions from business unionism to class struggle...2024-06-0853 min
Macro N CheeseEp 279 - Seeking Solidarity with Steve Hall**Each episode of Macro N Cheese has an “Extras” section filled with information and links to resources related to topics touched on in the interview. Go to https://realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ where you will also find a full transcript of the episode. Steve Grumbine’s guest is Steve Hall, a Professor Emeritus of Criminology who has published in the fields of criminology, sociology, anthropology, history, economic history, political theory and philosophy. The discussion covers a range of political and economic issues, including class consciousness and unity among the working class in the US and Europe. They dis...2024-06-011h 15
Macro N CheeseRadicalizing the Youth: The Significance of Campus Protests with Bryce GreeneBryce Greene was recently arrested during campus protests in support of Palestine. Steve, who believes ignoring the slaughter in Gaza is akin to ignoring the holocaust, invited him to describe his experience and insights into the student encampments and the anti-Zionist movement in the US. Bryce is a writer and organizer currently working towards his PhD in Informatics. His work focuses on media and geopolitical analysis. He emphasizes the importance of dismantling the myths and narratives surrounding American support for Israel and the oppression of Palestinians. He believes that studying Palestine brings understanding of the broader forces an...2024-05-2558 min
Macro N CheeseEp 277 - Be the Revolution with Jay Ponti**On Tuesday evening we’re holding a listening party and informal discussion of this episode. Join us for Macro ‘n Chill. Register here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZArcuqsqD0tH92MxVmJIqj4PHtojQGgFl2l Grassroots political organizer Jay Ponti talks with Steve about his book, "Be the Revolution: How Occupy Wall Street and the Bernie Sanders Movement Reshaped American Politics." Jay maintains that there’s a vibrant network of people doing great work that isn’t covered by corporate media. “Politicians are not heroes who can save us. We have to save ourselves. That's what the Occup...2024-05-181h 00
Macro N CheeseEp 276 - What Democracy? with Aaron GoodAaron Good, a political scientist and historian, talks with Steve about the US political system and power dynamics. They explore the roles of the deep state and oligarchy in policy-making and the suppression of democracy.“This is a very low point in the history of democracy. Perhaps the lowest point ever, if you put it in a historical context. The United States was never really a democracy. Democracy isn't so much an either/or proposition, I would say it's a continuum ...“Even in the generic sense of political rights and universal suffrage and basic 'one pers...2024-05-111h 03
Macro N CheeseEp 275 - Insurgent Labor with David Van DeusenIn a previous episode of this podcast, David Van Deusen spoke about the radical ten-point program adopted by the Vermont State Labor Council, AFL-CIO. This time, he and Steve discuss David’s new book, Insurgent Labour: The Vermont AFL-CIO from 2017 to 2023.They look at the importance of working-class unity, the need for unions to be more democratic and inclusive, and the need for a new approach to labor organizing. They touch on the problems of racial oppression, police unions, global labor movements, healthcare, and the futility in relying on the political parties. David's book provides insights and le...2024-05-0457 min
Macro N CheeseEp 274 - Is Bail Reform the Answer? with Jeff ClaytonWhen most of us think about bail, we focus on the financial burden it presents to the accused. This week’s guest is Jeffrey J. Clayton, Executive Director of the American Bail Coalition. He talks to Steve about the complicated anti-democratic trap that is our criminal justice system.Jeff explains that across the US there are plans in place to eliminate bail. (One would think that’s good news. One would be wrong.) In reality, these plans result in greater violations of civil liberties. Bail is being replaced by pre-trial incarceration and risk assessment tools using computer algo...2024-04-2743 min
Macro N CheeseEp 273 - RP Live: Putin's Russia with Esha Krishnaswamy**Check our website for upcoming events such as book clubs, RP Live webinars, and the Tuesday evening discussion group, Macro ‘n Chill. https://realprogressives.org/This week’s episode is the audio track of a recent webinar with historian Esha Krishnaswamy. Esha is now living in Russia to research and write a people’s history of the Soviet Union.The discussion begins with the story of the First World War and the Bolshevik Revolution. The formation of the USSR as a proletarian state shook the capitalist nations of the West to their core...2024-04-201h 20
Macro N CheeseEp 272 - Assange: In Defense of Journalists & Whistleblowers with Kevin Gosztola“Assange is being targeted by the US government because he doesn't conform to the dominant culture of the US prestige media. He's not going to be invited to the White House Correspondents' Dinner. He's not going to be given a Pulitzer. He's not going to be treated as one of them.”Steve’s guest is journalist Kevin Gosztola, author of Guilty of Journalism: The Political Case Against Julian Assange. Kevin has been advocating for freedom of the press since the George W. Bush administration and the imperialist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.Steve and Kevin...2024-04-1354 min
Macro N CheeseEp 271 - Defining Value with L. Randall Wray**RP Book Club is beginning a new series, Sunday April 7, 14, and 21, at 3pm ET/12pm PT. Register once for all three sessions. realprogressives.org/event/rp-book-club-the-communist-manifesto/2024-04-07L. Randall Wray talks with Steve about the concept of value in the context of MMT. Randy discusses the labor theory of value and the liquidity premise theory, saying both approaches are critical to understanding how money works in a capitalist economy.Randy looks at the historical development of economic thought and the neoclassical revolution of the 1870s, which aimed to prove that a free-market economy could...2024-04-0653 min
Macro N CheeseEp 270 - Class, Capitalism, and MMT with Bill MitchellA hundred years ago, John Maynard Keynes predicted we would see a massive expansion of growth and productivity under capitalism. Bingo. He got that right. He said this amazing efficiency would result in a shorter work week with far more leisure time for everyone. Oops. Not so much. The structure of capital ownership will never permit it.Bill Mitchell’s blog post, Keynes Was Wrong Because He Failed to Consider Class Conflict, was the inspiration for this episode. Bill talks with Steve about many of the truths about capitalism economists and historians get wrong, beginning with the id...2024-03-301h 10
Macro N CheeseEp 269 - Finding Your Why with Steve GrumbineThis episode of Macro N Cheese is dedicated to Steve’s mom, Joan Grumbine. Her kindness, love, and unwavering dedication to her family and community will be deeply missed. May she rest in peace.In his first solo episode, our host and jefe, Steve Grumbine, recounts the story of his political transformation from conservative republican to passionate MMT advocate, to self-identified socialist.He begins the episode talking about his recent experience dealing with the medical system as his mother’s health declined. Both parents’ deaths illustrate the fact that a for-profit system cannot...2024-03-231h 17
Macro N CheeseEp 268 - There Is No Magic Pricing Fairy with Brian Romanchuk** Be sure to check the Real Progressives website’s calendar for upcoming events. On Sunday, March 17th at noon ET/9am PT, we’re hosting a webinar, RP Live with Esha Krishnaswamy: Putin’s Russia. On Tuesday evenings, 8pm ET/5pm PT, come to Macro ‘n Chill, where we listen to the most recent episode of this podcast and discuss it with the community. https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar/ “Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon, in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in ou...2024-03-1654 min
Macro N CheeseEp 267 - Demystifying Sellers Inflation with Yeva NersisyanThe American people see through mainstream claims of “the greatest economy ever.” They are confronted by evidence to the contrary every day.Steve and his guest, economist Yeva Nersisyan, take a deep dive into the current US economy, looking at the repercussions of the high costs of education, healthcare, and housing.They discuss different perspectives on the causes of inflation and talk about Isabella Weber’s work on “sellers’ inflation” and its relationship to monopoly power. They argue that the drive for corporate profits, leading to abusive price-setting, has been the primary force behind inflation.2024-03-0959 min
Macro N CheeseEp 266 - Les Milei with Daniel Conceição** Reminder: You are invited to listen to and discuss this episode with friends from Real Progressives on Tuesday, March 5th. Find the Zoom link at https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar/“If the soul is left in darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness.” — Victor HugoDaniel Conceição talks with Steve about Argentina’s economic immiseration under newly elected president Javier Milei.Milei’s aggressive cuts to public spending don’t address the root cause of inflation in Argentina. Because of the...2024-03-021h 05
Macro N CheeseEp 265 - Is Marx Still Relevant? with Steve Maher**To discuss this episode among friends, come to our listening party, Macro ‘n Chill, on Tuesday February 27th at 8pm ET/5pm PT. For the link go to our Events Calendar https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar“But fortunately for us, human nature is precisely the capacity to be creative; to imagine a different way of living together and to bring that into being through our conscious and deliberate actions by working together, by fighting for a different world against the class power that is interested in perpetuating things as they are. And so we can, through acting on the worl...2024-02-2454 min
Macro N CheeseEp 264 - Deconstructing the Colonial Archetype with Fadhel Kaboub** If you haven’t yet come to our Tuesday night listening party, this is the week to do so. Join the Real Progressives community as we dive in and discuss this episode. The registration link is posted on our Events Calendar prior to each Tuesday’s session — it’s usually up by Saturday. Look for Macro ‘n Chill. https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar/This week Steve talks with our friend, economist Fadhel Kaboub. Followers of this podcast will recognize some of the themes we regularly focus on, including the debt trap facing countries of the global South, and the need f...2024-02-1756 min
Macro N CheeseEp 263 - State of the Not So Free Press with Mickey Huff“We've been trying to get people to stop saying ‘mainstream media.’ I’ve got to do it now too, for the same reason that you just described: because there's nothing mainstream about 90 percent of the media being controlled by 6 private, for-profit corporations or 5 other big tech companies. There's nothing mainstream, or Main Street, about the ideas and the views that they platform. It's corporate media or establishment legacy press, and then there's independent media which means very little.” — Mickey HuffProject Censored was founded by a communications and sociology professor in the 1970s. He asked himself how it was that Richard...2024-02-1057 min
Macro N CheeseEp 262 - How Are We Going To Pay For It with Geoff Ginter, Rohan Grey, and Yeva Nersisyan“...the question of how to pay for it is a very complicated question but has much less to do with money than it does to do with social structure and industrial structure. And the quicker we can get away from centering the taxpayer as the goose that holds the golden egg money and more towards the questions of labor and industrial structure that are really going to affect how we provide healthcare, I think we're going to be in a better place.” — Rohan GreyIn 2022, Real Progressives helped our coalition partners, March for Medicare for All, organize a thre...2024-02-031h 19
Macro N CheeseEp 261 - Mission: Inflation with Warren Mosler**Transcripts and “extras” are available for each episode of Macro N Cheese on our website: https://realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/This podcast’s followers know we cover a range of topics from political theory to international events, but at some point, we always circle back to Modern Monetary Theory.This interview with Warren Mosler was originally recorded for “Let’s Get Ready to Grumble,” Steve’s show on Status Coup.As with any Mosler episode, this one is appropriate for both MMT newcomers and old-timers. They discuss interest rates, inflation, and the money supp...2024-01-2756 min
Macro N CheeseEp 260 - Practical Applications with Joshua Dávila, the Blockchain SocialistWhen we hear the term “blockchain,” we immediately think of libertarians and capitalists. Crypto bros. They have been dominating that space but they don’t hold a monopoly on it, and our guest, Joshua Dávila, AKA The Blockchain Socialist, refuses to cede the ground. In this episode he and Steve discuss the need for bridging the gap between technical knowledge and social understanding because blockchain technology can be a valuable organizing tool for socialists.Joshua suggests creating collective wallets and experimenting with democratic input in economic institutions as a starting point. He also speaks of the potenti...2024-01-2047 min
Macro N CheeseEp 259 - Redefining Work with Tyler EmersonOne of the many exciting things about a federal job guarantee is its transformative potential in reshaping society's understanding of work and value. It can provide a dignified job for people in every possible situation with every ability and disability. Of course that’s not all we love about the FJG. In this episode, Tyler Emerson and Steve also discuss the job guarantee’s preventative possibilities in tackling social and environmental crises.Tyler is one of the younger generation of MMT scholars. He works with our good friend Pavlina Tcherneva at the Economic Democracy Initiative (EDI). We reco...2024-01-1354 min
Macro N CheeseEp 258 - Wall Street’s War on Workers with Les LeopoldBefore the 1980s, mass layoffs were often tied to economic recessions. Today, they are shrewd corporate strategy. Modern mass layoffs are connected to leveraged buyouts or stock buybacks. Steve’s guest, Les Leopold, explains how the process works and how it came to be through the maneuverings of Wall Street and the two political parties.Les is the author of Wall Street’s War on Workers. He and Steve talk about the very real impact on people’s lives, from the coal miners of Mingo County, West Virginia, to Steve’s personal struggles after Verizon’s 2009 lay-offs. They discu...2024-01-0652 min
Macro N CheeseEp 257 - The Case For Palestine with Dan KovalikIn his third appearance on Macro N Cheese, Dan Kovalik talks with Steve about his upcoming book, The Case for Palestine: Why It Matters and Why You Should Care. As with many of our guests, the episode is more of a conversation – a passionate one – than an interview.“First of all ... this conflict did not begin on October 7th, though we're led to believe it did. This conflict – well, it depends on when you want to say it started – but certainly a good starting place is 1948 in the Nakba, when 700,000 to 900,000 Palestinians were violently displaced by Israelis who came in to...2023-12-3045 min
Macro N CheeseEp 256 - RP Live Presents: Confronting Green Colonialism with Hamza Hamouchene“We cannot talk about colonialism, green or otherwise, about dismantling it, about decolonization, about environmental and climate justice in the Arab region, and turn a blind eye to the ongoing genocide, the ethnic cleansing, the mass displacement, the mass slaughter and the repression of Palestinians perpetrated by the racist apartheid settler colonial state of Israel with the active support and abetting by imperialist powers — from the United States to the European Union, to France, to Germany, and others.”In this webinar from our RP Live webinar series, Dr. Hamza Hamouchene addresses the fraudulent and exploitative reality behind “green energy.” His presen...2023-12-231h 29
Macro N CheeseEp 255 - Enshittification: A Monopoly Story with Cory DoctorowAccording to Wikipedia, “Enshittification, also known as platform decay, is the pattern of decreasing quality of online platforms that act as two-sided markets. Enshittification can be seen as a form of rent-seeking. Examples of alleged enshittification have included Amazon, Bandcamp, Facebook, Google Search, Quora, Reddit, and Twitter.” Wikipedia also tells us the term was coined by today’s guest Cory Doctorow.Steve and Cory discuss his new fiction book, The Lost Cause, which explores truth and reconciliation in a polarized future and then delve into his nonfiction work, particularly The Internet Con: How to Seize the Means of Com...2023-12-161h 03
Macro N CheeseEp 254 - IMPACT: Climate Reparations with Fadhel KaboubFadhel Kaboub is back for his lucky 13th episode. He talks with Steve about the concept of climate reparations and its significance in tackling the climate crisis. True reparations go beyond financial compensation; they must include transferring technology, repairing our ecosystem, and restructuring the global financial and trade systems.The global North must not shirk its historic responsibility and disproportionate impact of climate change on the Global South. Fadhel and Steve discuss the need for truth and reconciliation as a starting point for reparations. They highlight the significance of addressing the structural issues that perpetuate harm. Fadhel...2023-12-091h 09
Macro N CheeseEp 253 - Death by Inequality with Stephen BezruchkaThe consequences of income inequality extend far beyond economic disparities. Stephen Bezruchka focuses on its effect on health. Stephen is on the faculty of the School of Public Health at University of Washington and is author of Inequality Kills Us All. Much of this interview looks at these issues in the US.Stephen directly ties inequality to mortality rates, disease, and early childhood development. It’s interesting to hear a physician who doesn’t blame our individual choices and habits; he lays our health problems squarely at the feet of the political and economic system.2023-12-021h 04
Macro N CheeseEp 252 - Dying for Capitalism with Charles DerberCharles Derber, author of "Dying for Capitalism", talks with Steve about the intersectionality between capitalism, environmental destruction, and militarism. He argues that the capitalist system, particularly in its neoliberal form, is inherently connected to the threats of environmental catastrophe and war. He emphasizes the historical context of these connections, tracing the shift from water-powered capitalism to coal and then oil as a means to maintain control and avoid public opposition. He highlights the role of the military in perpetuating climate change and the destructive consequences of war on the environment.Charles addresses the skepticism and cynicism often...2023-11-2558 min
Macro N CheeseEp 251 - Radical Political Economists on Palestine with David FieldsDavid Fields talks to Steve about “Economists for Palestine,” the statement released by the Union for Radical Political Economics (URPE). They emphasize economists’ responsibility to take a stand against the genocide being perpetrated against the Palestinians. They look at the connection between Zionism and the global capitalist system, debunking misinformation while highlighting the difference between antisemitism and anti-Zionism.We at Macro N Cheese urge our listeners to circulate the statement. https://urpe.org/2023/11/08/economists-for-palestine/Economists for PalestineWe stand in unwavering solidarity with the Palestinian people. Since October 7th, 2023, over two million people have faced a brut...2023-11-1855 min
BustED PencilsModern Monetary Theory with guest Steven D. Grumbine of Real ProgressivesTim and Johnny are joined by Steven D. Grumbine of Real Progressives to discuss modern monetary theory and how it applies to student debt relief. 2023-07-1944 min
BustED PencilsModern Monetary Theory with guest Steven D. Grumbine of Real ProgressivesTim and Johnny are joined by Steven D. Grumbine of Real Progressives to discuss modern monetary theory and how it applies to student debt relief. 2023-07-1944 min
Macro N CheeseEp 210 - American Exception with Aaron GoodIf Macro N Cheese wasn’t committed to spreading MMT to the activist community, we might have been a history podcast. Nothing excites Steve Grumbine as much as listening to 50 hours of lectures on the French Revolution or the Black Plague. This week’s guest, Aaron Good, checks a lot of our boxes. What he brings to the table is history with a solid class analysis.Aaron is the author of American Exception: Empire and the Deep State. American exception should not be confused with American exceptionalism; think instead of the concept of laws applying to everyone EXCE...2023-02-041h 00
Macro N CheeseSystem Dynamics and the Minsky Model with Tyrone Keynes** Check out the transcript for this and every episode of Macro N Cheese on the Real Progressives website. This week’s episode looks at using a recently developed economic model application developed by frequent Macro N Cheese guest, Steve Keen. The software is aptly named “Minsky” and Steve Grumbine’s guest, Tyrone Keynes, is an experienced user of the Minsky software modelling tool. Tyrone is a consultant whose specialties are economics, health, and ecological modelling systems. Steve and Tyrone walk through the steps to develop processes that they both similarly follow to build a...2022-12-0357 min
Macro N CheeseEp 200 - Africa's Place in the Multi-Polar Order with Fadhel Kaboub**Thank you to our listeners! Can you believe this is our 200th episode? Crazy, right? Well, it wouldn’t have been possible without the efforts of a dedicated team. Our sound editor and engineer, Andy Kennedy, has spent thousands of hours (literally) producing these weekly gems. Then there’s the diligent band of copy editors—Brad Sandler, Jonathan Kadmon, Jay Spencer, and yours truly, Virginia Cotts, (plus, in earlier days, Rose Ann Rabiola Miele and Rob Baxter)—who pore over every AI-generated transcript, correcting mistakes and fixing punctuation for clarity. Julie Alberding, the RP website’s reigning eminence, created the layout...2022-11-261h 02
Macro N CheeseThe Trinity of Austerity with Clara Mattei“Austerity is the best weapon they have to try to convince. And if they can't convince, they can't coerce. So in my book, I say austerity plays with a double strategy: coercion and consensus.”Clara Mattei is the author of The Capital Order: How Economists Invented Austerity & Paved the Way to Fascism, published this month. Steve Grumbine, who uses the Twitter display name “Austerity is murder,” was drawn to her position that austerity is not just bad economic theory prescribing bad economic policy. That is a simplistic framing that ultimately depoliticizes austerity.Many on the left tie the birt...2022-11-121h 10
Macro N CheeseTrussonomics with Neil Wilson** Check out the transcript for this and every episode of Macro N Cheese at the Real Progressives website.Grumbine: I follow a lot of Brits on Twitter, and not just regular rank and file activists, but a lot of the actual economists. And the folks that are considered left, very strongly remind me of neoliberals.Wilson: Because they are. [laughter] What we have, you see, is this wonderful thing called the Oxford degree in philosophy, politics and economics [PPE]. And what happens is, when they graduate from that, there's a Sorting Hat, and it just puts them in...2022-10-2249 min
Macro N CheeseEp 191 - Can We Make Money Work For Us? with L. Randall WrayGrumbine: Can we have too much money? Wray: Yes, we surely can. Usually, our problem is that there's too much bank money, and the usual consequence is a financial crisis. Obviously, Steve and his guest are talking about the nation, not their own wallets. In this episode, he welcomes L. Randall Wray to Macro N Cheese for the eighth time to talk about Randy’s new book, "Making Money Work for Us: How MMT Can Save America," which will be released in America in November. Our listeners know they can co...2022-09-241h 20
Macro N CheeseImports, Exports and Empire with Bill MitchellIn a recent episode of Macro N Cheese, Steve spoke with a guest about the MMT view of exports as a benefit and imports as a cost. There ensued some disagreement on social media (where else?) This week Steve invited Bill Mitchell to weigh in on the topic. As their discussion develops, this becomes an episode we’d recommend to anyone who is still unclear on the meaning and consequences of foreign trade deficits.“Exports have to be a cost because you're foregoing real resources that you could use yourself. And imports have to be a benefit because you...2022-07-301h 21
Macro N CheeseThe End of Dollar Diplomacy? with Steve Keen and Michael Hudson**A transcript is available for this and every episode of the podcast at realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ where you will also find an Extras page with links to resources related to the episode.**In one of the most exciting pairings we’ve had on this podcast, Michael Hudson and Steve Keen join Steve Grumbine to talk about geopolitics, international production and trade, the climate crisis, and a bit of MMT.Grumbine begins by asking them to address Warren Mosler’s position that imports are a benefit and exports are a cost. Keen and Huds...2022-07-0953 min
Macro N CheeseFoundations with Warren Mosler**Have you seen the Rogue Scholar, Steve Grumbine’s new brown bag lunch show on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays at noon EST? For interviews, commentary, and, of course, MMT, go to Real Progress in Action on YouTube.Newcomers to MMT tend to draw a blank when they are told that taxes drive the currency or taxes created the first unemployed person. After all, none of that seems to track with the way they personally experience taxes. Warren Mosler makes sense of it by starting with the money story, using the example of colonial currency. The British wanted wo...2022-01-2954 min