Shows
The Messy Middle MattersEp 47: Why I Use AI, UnapologeticallyIn this episode, Indra explores the multifaceted role of AI in our lives, emphasizing its potential as a tool for accessibility, communication, and personal growth. She discusses how AI can enhance our work, serve as a thinking partner, and help us engage with broader audiences. Indra also highlights the importance of human agency in shaping the tools we use, advocating for a thoughtful approach to technology that prioritizes clarity and dignity.
Takeaways
AI is not about cheating; it's a reflection of our input.
Using AI can enhance accessibility in communication.
AI can serve as a partner...
2026-02-1117 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 46: Navigating the Goo Stage: Embracing Transformation w/ Stephanie SimpsonIn this episode, Indra and Stephanie Simpson explore the concept of the 'Goo Stage,' a transformative phase in life where individuals experience discomfort and uncertainty. They discuss the importance of navigating transitions, the role of leaders in supporting their teams during these times, and the significance of creating supportive environments. Stephanie shares insights on how to acknowledge and validate feelings during the Goo Stage, emphasizing the need for community and resources to aid in personal growth. The conversation concludes with invitations for listeners to reflect on their support systems and the importance of being present in the moment.
2026-02-0439 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 45: Navigating Purpose, Identity and Career in the Messy Middle w/ Rachel SaslawIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins sits down with Rachel Saslaw, product marketing director and founder of NYC’s storytelling community StoryTell, to explore the messy middle of career, purpose, and identity.
Rachel shares her journey of balancing a corporate career with a passion project, protecting her creative space from the pressures of monetization, and navigating societal expectations around hustle culture and “following your passion.” They discuss how work can serve as a fuel for life rather than a constant source of striving, and how intentionality, radical permission to change your mind, and embrac...
2026-01-2829 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 44: From Corporate Scripts to Owning the Room w/ Megumi CalverSummary
In this engaging conversation, Indra K and Megumi explore the complexities of navigating the messy middle of careers, personal growth, and entrepreneurship. Megumi shares her journey from Tokyo to Kansas City, her career pivots from marketing to acting, and ultimately to creating a community-focused wine events company. The discussion highlights the importance of creating supportive spaces for women, the art of gathering, and the lessons learned through trial and error in both personal and professional realms.
Takeaways
Megumi's journey reflects the importance of embracing change.
Creating spaces for women fosters community and support.
...
2026-01-2136 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 43: Navigating the First 90 Days w/ Amanda Jane LeeStarting a new role can feel overwhelming, even when you know the basics—logging in, getting paid, finding the coffee. In this episode, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee go beyond standard onboarding advice to explore how to truly set yourself up for success in your first 90 days.
They discuss the importance of asking foundational questions, building your own organizational maps, decoding internal vocabulary, and taking a listening-first approach to understand culture and team dynamics. From strategic one-on-ones to creating your own “maps” of reporting structures and workflows, this episode is full of practical tips for making meanin...
2026-01-1432 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 42: Spot the Green Flags: Leveraging AI for Role Fit & Career ClarityIn this conversation, Amanda Jane Lee discusses the innovative use of AI in self-discovery and career guidance. She emphasizes how AI can assist individuals in identifying their strengths and preferences through targeted questioning, making the process of career exploration more efficient and personalized.
Takeaways
AI can help identify personal strengths and preferences.
Mind mapping software is a useful tool in self-discovery.
Asking the right questions is crucial for self-exploration.
AI can generate questions to guide personal discovery.
Understanding green flags is important in career choices.
Self-discovery can be enhanced through technology.
AI can streamline the process...
2026-01-0723 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 41: From Expert to Leader: The Emotional Journey to People Management w/ Laura Lillie GoodridgeThis conversation delves into the complexities of transitioning into leadership roles, emphasizing the emotional and practical challenges faced by new managers. Indra K and Laura Lillie Goodridge explore the jarring shift from individual contributor to manager, the importance of self-awareness, and the need for effective communication and feedback. They discuss the lack of support many organizations provide for new leaders and the significance of finding the right coaching and resources to navigate this transition successfully. The dialogue highlights the evolving nature of leadership in today's workplace, advocating for a more empathetic and self-aware approach to management.
Takeaways
2025-12-1738 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 40: Starting Over Again: The Humility of Career Change w/ Mikki HoffmanIn this conversation, Mikki and Indra explore the complexities of navigating career changes and the profound shifts in identity that accompany them. They discuss the importance of humility, community support, and vulnerability during transitions, emphasizing the need to redefine one's identity and align actions with personal values. The dialogue highlights the significance of small impacts and the ripples they create within communities, encouraging listeners to embrace change and seek connection.
Takeaways
The job market is unpredictable, leading to frequent career changes.
Identity can shift significantly when changing roles or companies.
Experiential design and community engagement can...
2025-12-1037 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 39: It Sounds Like Empowerment, But It’s Actually Avoidance w/ Amanda Jane LeeIn this episode, Indra and Amanda discuss the complexities of co-creation in the workplace, particularly when it comes to leadership dynamics and the responsibilities that come with collaboration. They explore the importance of providing structure in collaborative efforts, the pitfalls of starting from a blank slate, and the need for clear expectations and communication. The conversation also touches on the challenges of goal setting, particularly with OKRs, and the significance of documenting contributions to avoid repeating past mistakes. Ultimately, the episode emphasizes the need for both leaders and team members to understand their roles and responsibilities in collaborative projects.
2025-12-0334 min
The Messy Middle MattersEp 38: Scaling Culture While Everything’s in Motion (w/ Derek Kastner)What does it take to build—and protect—culture when your team and community are growing faster than your playbook? In this episode, Indra talks with Derek Kastner, Head of Experience at Fabrik, about what it really means to nurture community and connection in a rapidly scaling organization.
From being one of Fabrik’s first three employees to helping onboard its growing team and shape the member experience, Derek shares candid lessons about balancing perfectionism with presence, co-creating culture with members, and learning to set boundaries while staying deeply human. Together, they explore the tension between structure and sp...
2025-11-1931 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 37: Changing Course. Bouncing Back. w/ Nancy E. KrulikWhen the world shifts under your feet, what do you do next? In this episode, Indra talks with bestselling children’s author Nancy Krulik about the art of resilience and reinvention. From investigative journalism to over 250 books for kids — and now animation — Nancy’s career is a masterclass in adapting, learning, and staying curious when plans fall apart.
Together, they explore what it takes to recognize when it’s time to pivot, how to turn setbacks into opportunities, and why nothing you learn is ever wasted. Nancy shares hard-earned lessons on staying grounded through industry changes, embracing new tools...
2025-11-1230 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 36: Aligning Human Behavior w/ Business Needs: Why People Push Back (w/Amanda Jane Lee)Business goals and human behavior don’t always line up — and the friction can stall progress, frustrate teams, and leave leaders scratching their heads. In this episode, we dive into real-world examples where business logic clashes with human tendencies, from time tracking to communication challenges and conflicting incentives. We share strategies for bridging the gap, including clear rationale, collaboration across teams, and open forums to build trust. If you’ve ever wondered why good processes fail despite good intentions, this episode is for you.
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2025-11-0526 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 35: When Perfectionism Holds You Back (w/Amanda Jane Lee)Perfectionism can drive excellence — but it can also stall progress, create stress, and keep teams stuck. In this episode, we explore the “pencils down” metaphor, helping you recognize when good enough is actually brilliant. We discuss the roots and benefits of perfectionism, the pitfalls of over-editing and micromanagement, and how leaders can model healthy standards. Packed with practical strategies for releasing control, encouraging iteration, and knowing when to move on, this episode is a guide for anyone ready to break free from perfectionism without sacrificing quality.
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2025-10-2928 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 34: Breaking Out of Corporate Life w/ Ashley Grace JeffersonThinking about leaving corporate America but not sure what it really takes? In this episode, Indra sits down with Ashley Grace Jefferson to explore the mental, emotional, and practical shifts involved in breaking free from the corporate system.
They unpack the culture and incentives of corporate life, address the fears and stigma around leaving, and discuss the logistical realities—from health insurance to financial planning—that often catch people off guard. Ashley and Indra share personal stories of doubt, courage, and resilience, highlighting the importance of community, support systems, and authentic identity when taking the leap.
Wh...
2025-10-2232 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 33: The Courage to Step Outside of Your Comfort Zone (w/ Juleen Mahabeer-Jackson)In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra sits down with Juleen Mahabeer-Jackson to explore what it really feels like to be at a career crossroads. From packing up her life (and two cats!) to drive across the country, to rethinking what success looks like beyond job titles, Juleen shares her story of stepping outside her comfort zone and learning to trust herself. Together, Indra and Juleen unpack the tension between chasing external validation and building a life that feels authentic, sustainable, and joyful. They also reflect on the pressure of “picking your struggle,” filling your own cup, and h...
2025-10-1527 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 32: Your Brand, Your Rules (w/ Ashley Grace Jefferson - Startup Baddie & F3)Branding yourself isn’t optional anymore—it’s essential. In this episode, Indra sits down with Ashley Grace Jefferson, founder of Startup Baddie and F3 (Founders, Funders & Fractionals), to explore how to stand out, show up authentically, and even rebrand yourself when the time is right.
They dive into the signs it’s time to rebrand, the difference between corporate and personal branding, and practical steps for making your brand visible—like social media, websites, and visual identity. Ashley shares her own journey, including the story behind her now-famous “Startup Baddie” identity, and offers actionable tips listeners can use immedi...
2025-10-0830 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 31: Professional Identity: How Others See You vs. How You See Yourself (w/ Amanda Jane Lee)Your professional identity shapes how others see you, how you show up, and the opportunities that come your way. In this episode, we explore the difference between brand (how you want to be seen) and reputation (how others actually see you), and share practical strategies for defining and communicating your identity at work. We dive into real-world examples, tips for aligning your actions with your intentions, and ways to make your presence consistent across teams, projects, and platforms.
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2025-10-0123 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 30: Being Smart vs. Being Prepared (w/ Victor Malena - Ops on Tap)In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra is joined by Victor Malena, founder of Ops on Tap, to explore the subtle but powerful difference between being smart and being prepared.
Victor shares a career-shaping story from an early mentor who taught him that success often comes less from being the "smartest person in the room" and more from being the one most ready to engage, ask questions, and adapt. Together, Indra and Victor unpack what preparedness looks like in practice—curiosity, clarity, and creating space for others to contribute—while reflecting on how identity, leadership, and e...
2025-09-2433 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 29: Networking Without the Ick: How to Build Real Relationships That Last (w/ Amanda Jane Lee)Let’s be honest. Networking often conjures awkward happy hours, forced small talk, and a vague sense that you should be doing more of it. But what if it didn’t have to feel gross? In this episode, Indra and Amanda break down how to keep your network warm, show up authentically, and build meaningful relationships that support your career and your humanity. Whether you’re introverted, overwhelmed, or just not sure where to start, this conversation offers a mix of pep talk and practical tips to make networking feel more like connection and less like a chore.
Usef...
2025-09-1727 min
The Messy Middle MattersBonus Drop: A Quick Update from IndraIndra drops into your feed with a short update on what’s ahead for The Messy Middle Matters. The next chapter features new voices and experiences, additional stories from the trenches, and an even deeper examination of the work that is rarely seen, heard, or celebrated. Don’t worry. Amanda will still be joining regularly.
2025-09-1500 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 28: Influence vs. Authority: How Change Really HappensIn this episode, Indra and Amanda explore the difference between influence and authority and why mastering influence is essential for most people at work. While authority comes with titles and structure, influence is often how real change happens: through relationships, trust, and timing.
They share personal stories of leading without formal power, the subtle art of planting seeds and letting ideas take root, and strategies for shifting mindsets and behavior over time. Whether you’re driving change from the middle or navigating a complex org, this episode offers practical tips for using influence to get things done—with...
2025-09-1019 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 27: Incentives, Outputs, and Organizational DisconnectsIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack a workplace tension that’s all too familiar: what happens when incentives, outputs, and motivation aren’t aligned.
They begin by defining key terms: intrinsic incentives (such as purpose or pride), extrinsic incentives (like pay or praise), and outputs (the tangible results of one's work). Then, they dive into two primary sources of misalignment:
Conflicting incentives between teams, crafts, or departments
Leadership messages that don’t match real decisions or rewards
With real-life examples, they explore the awkward dynamics that arise when your m...
2025-09-0327 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 26: Career Growth vs. Team CohesionBelonging to a team can be deeply fulfilling, but what happens when that sense of loyalty starts to conflict with your growth in your craft?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the tension between short-term team alignment and long-term career development. They explore what it means to be loyal to your project team, your department, or your craft, especially in roles like program management, design, and marketing, where craft-specific communities may be smaller or less visible.
From navigating conflicting priorities to finding time for your own professional development, they offer insights for both individual...
2025-08-2718 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 25: When Everything is a Top PriorityWhy does everything feel urgent all the time — and what does it cost us? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the toll of poor prioritization on teams, leaders, and organizations.
From the illusion of decision-making to the chaos of shifting priorities, they explore the mental and operational burnout that comes when no one says no. They offer practical tools for creating clarity, setting boundaries, and making prioritization a leadership discipline, not just a labeling exercise.
Whether you're the one setting the priorities or trying to survive them, this episode offers validation and strategies for push...
2025-08-2031 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 24: Seniority as a EuphemismWhat do people mean when they say someone is “too senior”? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the layered, often coded ways the word "senior" is used in hiring and professional contexts.
From recruiter conversations to team dynamics, the term is frequently a stand-in for other qualities—such as executive presence, high salary expectations, and perceived difficulty to manage—that often reveal unspoken biases. They explore the disconnect between titles and actual responsibilities, challenge the euphemistic use of senior, and call for clearer, more honest language in describing skills and roles.
If you’ve ever been to...
2025-08-1317 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 23: What to Do When There’s Nowhere Left to GrowWhat do you do when a talented team member has outgrown what your organization can offer? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the rarely discussed topic of supporting team members who are ready to move on, not because they've failed, but because they’ve grown. From recognizing career ceilings to embracing talent mobility, they explore how letting go can be an act of leadership, not loss. You’ll hear practical strategies for navigating these moments with honesty, generosity, and long-term vision, turning exits into alumni relationships and potential into legacy.
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2025-08-0625 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 22: Why Hire Smart People if You Won't Let Them ThinkIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into a frustrating contradiction many professionals have experienced: the same companies that go out of their way to hire the brightest minds often turn around and disempower them the moment they arrive. From micromanagement to fear-based leadership, they examine the organizational dynamics that hinder strong talent and the downstream consequences for innovation, retention, and culture.
With real-life stories and a healthy dose of kiki, they unpack why some leaders can’t “let go,” what it looks like when trust is missing, and how insecurity at the to...
2025-07-3026 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 21: Rockstars, Unicorns, and Other Hiring MythsIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee explore the language used in hiring, specifically the overused and often problematic terms “rockstar” and “unicorn.” They unpack how these labels, while meant to signal excellence, can set unrealistic expectations and perpetuate individualism over collaboration. Along the way, they highlight the real risks of unicorn hunting, the myth of the full-stack engineer, and why generalists deserve more love.
They also explore different “letter-shaped” professionals (T-shaped, I-shaped, M-shaped, and more) and discuss how mismatched job titles, overloaded expectations, and leadership insecurity can hinder team performance...
2025-07-2327 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 20: More Than a Resume: Building Your Digital PresenceIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee delve into the evolving landscape of personal branding, beginning with the notion that LinkedIn is no longer just a digital resume. From resharing posts to publishing thought leadership, today’s professionals are expected to build a visible, credible presence that extends far beyond job titles and bullet points.
They reflect on the growing pressure to “show your work” online, how social algorithms shape visibility, and why blogging, podcasting, and even experimenting with AI can become practical tools in your branding toolkit. They also speak...
2025-07-1633 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 19: The Craft of Meeting NotesTaking notes isn’t always busywork; it can be a power move. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the underrated but essential skill of effective note-taking in the workplace. They reflect on how their own approach has evolved from admin duty to strategic tool and explore why the person writing the notes often holds more influence than you think.
From capturing decisions to controlling narratives, they share tactical advice on building a taxonomy, structuring your notes, and knowing what not to include. Whether you're tired of always being “the note taker” or looking to use your notes...
2025-07-0933 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 18: The Meeting About the Meeting About the MeetingWe've all been there—staring at a calendar invite with a cryptic title and no context, then spending the meeting trying to figure out why you're even there. In this episode, Indra and Amanda tackle the all-too-familiar plague of purposeless meetings.
From weekly leadership check-ins to post-meeting debriefs about the next meeting, they unpack the hidden cost of unclear gatherings: time, energy, morale, and productivity. They also offer practical tips for spotting meetings that should never happen—and tools to make the ones that do more effective and engaging.
Whether you love a good working sess...
2025-07-0233 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 17: Titles MatterIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the complex role of titles and credentials in professional life. From HRIS databases that never quite get it right to the very real ways marginalized folks use credentials as armor, this conversation explores how titles are used, misused, and misunderstood.
They explore how titles can signal authority, invite (or block) collaboration, and even become tools of gatekeeping. You'll hear insights on how to navigate the mismatch between internal job classifications and your public-facing identity, the difference between strategic self-representation and rigid hierarchy, and why titles...
2025-06-2528 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 16: Not Everything is a Zero-Sum GameIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the difference between scarcity and abundance mindsets—starting with a “zero-sum game” pizza analogy (yes, pizza 🍕). They explore how our beliefs about resources, success, and competition shape how we lead, collaborate, and show up in the world.
Drawing on The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek, Indra shares how this framework helps leaders break out of short-term, win-or-lose thinking and into a more sustainable, collective approach. Amanda adds insights on how abundance isn’t about being naïve—it’s about being curious, strategic, and generous, even in high-pre...
2025-06-1830 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 15: Soft Skills: The Skills No One Teaches (but everyone needs)Soft skills: everyone talks about them, few people define them, and even fewer get help building them. In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the nuanced world of interpersonal and emotional intelligence—the unspoken skills that make or break how we collaborate, lead, and show up at work.
From navigating conflict and giving feedback to facilitating meetings and reading the room, they explore why soft skills often surface in high-stakes moments... and why most training programs barely scratch the surface.
They share real talk on:
Whether soft skills are innate or...
2025-06-1125 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 14: Getting Stuff Done: The Value of Project & Program ProfessionalsIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the often overlooked power of Project, Program, and Operations Managers (PMs), the PMs who hold organizations together behind the scenes. As companies cut budgets, these critical roles are frequently the first to go. However, eliminating the very people who create clarity, enable execution, and manage complexity can have long-term consequences.
This episode defines the distinctions between PM roles and highlights the invisible, high-impact work they do, like change management, stakeholder alignment, and process improvement. It challenges the myth that PMs are just about checklists. Indra...
2025-06-0430 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 13: Why Outsiders Can Say the Quiet Thing Out LoudSometimes it takes an outsider to say what everyone on the inside is thinking but can’t express. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the value and complexity of bringing in consultants, agencies, and subject matter experts to say the quiet thing out loud. They explore how power dynamics, organizational culture, and fear of professional consequences can keep internal voices silent and why external perspectives can cut through the noise.
Through real-world examples from their careers, they highlight:
The benefits of outsider objectivity and “fresh eyes”
When and how to bring in external voices for maximu...
2025-05-2822 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 12: Icebreakers: Creating Space for ConnectionIn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful world of icebreakers, those sometimes awkward, sometimes delightful moments that set the tone for team connection. Whether you're leading a virtual kickoff, hosting a new hire orientation, or just trying to get humans to look each other in the eyes, the right icebreaker can ease social anxiety, build rapport, and foster inclusive environments.
They explore:
Why icebreakers matter (even for well-established teams)
What makes an icebreaker effective, and what makes it flounder
Tips for adapting to different personalities, cultures, and...
2025-05-2122 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 11: The Serious Case for Not Taking Everything So SeriouslyIs it possible that the secret to better teamwork, sharper ideas, and a more connected workplace is... play?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda bust the myth that work and play are opposites. They explore how introducing moments of levity, whether it’s custom Slack emojis, playful team names, or low-stakes laughter, can actually deepen collaboration, trust, and creativity.
They break down the different types of play that can live comfortably (and appropriately) in professional settings, and offer guidance on how to bring joy into work without crossing the line into "mandatory fun." Whether you're le...
2025-05-1421 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 10: Context Matters: The Power of Clarifying Questions"I know what that word means… but what do you mean by it?"
In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful skill of asking clarifying questions. Whether it's untangling workplace jargon, bridging communication gaps, or just making sure everyone’s on the same page, asking for context can transform how teams collaborate.
We explore the importance of shared understanding, the art of curiosity without judgment, and the sneaky barriers that keep people from speaking up. From why writing things down can make ideas more accessible to how fear...
2025-05-0720 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 09: Work Doesn’t Happen in a Vacuum: Navigating Challenging Times TogetherWhat happens when life outside the office becomes impossible to ignore? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, we explore what it means to be human at work, particularly during personal, local, or global crises.
From the ongoing effects of the pandemic to sudden personal emergencies, Indra and Amanda explore how leaders and employees alike can demonstrate empathy, set realistic expectations, and foster cultures that prioritize people over productivity.
This is a conversation about acknowledging reality, embracing flexibility, and navigating that murky space between personal and professional life without losing sight of our humanity.
2025-04-3025 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 08: Boxes, Biases & Breakthroughs: Navigating Self-Assessments at Workn this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the world of self-assessments. Whether they’re assigned to us by HR or are one of those eerily specific online quizzes we can’t help but take, they explore the pros and cons of personality and performance evaluations, sharing personal stories and asking: When do these tools help us grow? And when do they box us in?
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2025-04-2329 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 07: Knowledge Hoarding vs. Sharing: Finding the Right BalanceIn this episode, Indra and Amanda break down workplace information dynamics, exploring why some people cling to knowledge, others freely share it, and some strategically keep certain details close to the chest. They unpack the motivations behind each approach, the impact on team dynamics, and how to find a balance that fosters trust while maintaining healthy boundaries.
Plus, they finally explain their matching sweatshirts. Spoiler alert: It’s all about setting limits when you’re the go-to person for answers.
Tune in to reflect on your own information-sharing style and learn small shifts that can lead...
2025-04-1634 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 06: People Management: Not Just a Step Up, A Career ShiftBeing good at your job doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be good at managing people. So why do so many companies treat management as the default next step?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the myths and realities of people management—why some folks are promoted before they’re ready, what actually makes a great leader, and why management isn’t just a promotion but an entirely different job. They explore the essential skills needed to succeed, the emotional labor of leadership, and alternative career paths for those who want to grow without managing people.
2025-04-0928 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 05: Feedback FatigueThese days, feedback is everywhere. But are we benefiting from it, or are we just drowning in a sea of unsolicited opinions and HR-driven surveys?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda dive into the feedback frenzy: how social media and corporate feedback tools have fueled a culture of constant evaluation, the unintended consequences of feedback overload, and the real cost of all these mandatory feedback programs.
They also break down practical ways to filter out the noise, differentiate between helpful and unhelpful feedback, and give feedback in a way that supports growth.
If...
2025-04-0234 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 04: Making the Invisible Work Count (Glue Work)Some work is easy to measure—deadlines met, projects delivered, goals achieved. But what about the work that holds everything together?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda discuss their journey of recognizing Glue Work, the often invisible tasks that keep teams functioning but rarely get acknowledged. They share how naming this work was a crucial first step and explore strategies to make it visible, valued, and recognized as a part of career growth.
This is just the beginning of a much bigger conversation, because no one should have to choose between doing the work that ke...
2025-03-2626 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 03: The Overdiagnosis of Impostor SyndromeImpostor syndrome is often framed as an internal struggle, but what if the real issue isn’t impostor syndrome, but something else?
In this episode, Indra and Amanda explore the fine line between impostor syndrome and the discomfort of learning something new.
They also share a real-life workplace experience where they initially thought they were battling self-doubt—only to uncover a deeper, systemic issue at play. They walk through how they gathered the right people, documented the challenge, and ultimately realized the problem wasn’t what it seemed.
Join us as we discuss the powe...
2025-03-1924 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 02: Words MatterThe way we define and communicate ideas—whether through common language, acronyms, or company-specific terms—shapes how we work together. Without a shared vocabulary, teams risk misalignment, confusion, and even chaos.
In this episode, we explore why shared understanding is foundational to navigating the messy middle. We’ll dig deeper into what the messy middle really means and why it deserves an entire podcast. When we can name and define the challenges we face, we gain the clarity needed to move forward—together.
Join us as we unpack the power of language, alignment, and shared meaning...
2025-03-1234 minThe Messy Middle MattersEp 01: Welcome to The Messy MiddleThe messy middle—it’s that chaotic, uncertain, sometimes frustrating space between where you started and where you want to be. It’s the part of the journey that rarely makes it into the highlight reel, but it’s where the real work happens.
In this first episode, we introduce The Messy Middle Matters and why this often-overlooked stage of work and life deserves more attention. We’ll share our experiences navigating the messy middle, what draws us to these conversations, and who we hope to highlight.
If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or like you’re...
2025-03-1012 min