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The Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedShould You Hire The Best Person For The Job? feat. Zoe Cunningham (Director at Softwire)Zoe Cunningham is one of the first members of the Softwire team, joining as a developer and working her way up to Director level. She was Hywel's first manager (!) and has lots of opinions on tech hiring! Zoe also has a career as an actor, has published three books, recently won an award for her portfolio career. In this episode, Hywel and Zoe discuss what 'best' and 'for the job' really mean in the tech landscape, how they're often interpreted alongside the benefits and pitfalls of different hiring practices.  2023-08-2143 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 26 - Should I be using the SPACE framework? feat. Abi Noda (CEO and Co-Founder at DX)Hywel is joined by Abi Noda - a programmer, researcher, and entrepreneur focused on helping leaders measure and improve developer productivity. Abi is currently the CEO and Co-Founder of DX, a platform that helps organisations improve the productivity of their developers. In addition to DX, Abi runs the Engineering Enablement newsletter and podcast which cover the latest research and perspectives on developer productivity. Prior to DX, Abi held CTO roles at several companies and was the founder and CEO of Pull Panda, which was acquired by GitHub in 2019. In this episode, Abi talks about the...2023-06-2042 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 25 - Does every company / your startup need a career ladder for engineers? feat. Marco Risi (Head of Engineering at Skiller Whale)We’re delighted to have our very own Head of Engineering Marco Risi on this week’s episode of The Pod. Marco is the ex-CTO of Everli, the European marketplace for online grocery shopping that started in Italy. He built the engineering ladder at Everli and scaled the team from 1 - 70, after joining as the first full stack developer.   Career ladders allow leaders to communicate across a business what a role looks like, and what good looks like in that role. Marco and Hywel consider when you might need to implement an engineering career ladder, techn...2023-04-1200 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 24 - How do I prepare my tech org for IPO? feat. Jonathan Lister Parsons (CTO at PensionBee)Jonathan Lister Parsons co-founded PensionBee with Romi Savova in 2014 and has since held the role of CTO. He champions a tech-forward culture within the business, aiming to raise the level of technology literacy among employees. Prior to co-founding PensionBee, Jonathan founded a digital consultancy, Penrose, and worked at British Telecom. Jonathan also holds an MSci in Experimental and Theoretical Physics from the University of Cambridge. This week we’re releasing an episode that was recorded with Jonathan last year, just after Pension Bee IPO’d. Tune in to hear how you aim for and think about IPO, and...2023-03-1600 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 23 - What’s the difference between strategy and tactics? feat. Lena Reinhard (Leadership and Executive Coach)Hywel is joined by leadership and executive coach, Lena Reinhard. Lena has dedicated her career to building successful, high-performing, globally distributed engineering organisations, and helping teams thrive in times of high change. She now offers transformational leadership coaching and consulting for leaders. Previously, Lena has served as VP Engineering with CircleCI and Travis CI, been a CEO and co-founded a startup, and through her cross-functional background and experience, she brings a unique perspective on systems of technology, business, and people.  In this episode Hywel and Lena take a deep dive into the distinctions between strategy and tactics a...2023-02-2400 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 22 - How to spend your time as a leader feat. Mathias Meyer (Executive CTO Coach and Founding Partner at The Intentional Organisation)This week our host Hywel Carver is joined by Mathias Meyer, an executive coach for CTOs and VP Engs and a founding partner at The Intentional Organization, he is also the co-author of a forthcoming book of the same title. Mathias supports engineering executives and founders in their personal and professional growth as they scale their business and  teams. While starting his career as an engineer, he founded Travis CI, which empowers people to build and ship great software. Mathias then found his calling in management, leadership, as a CEO and CTO, and now as a coach.2023-02-0200 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 21 - How do you approach restructuring? feat. Josh Goldberg (Author and Open Source Developer)Hywel is joined by Josh Goldberg who is the author of Learning TypeScript, and a full-time open-source maintainer of projects in the Typescript ecosystem. Throughout this discussion, which delves into a perpetual question faced by tech leaders, Hywel and Josh discuss the difference between a re-factor and a restructure, while considering the pains and gains of each. What are your alternatives to restructuring and how do you avoid stopping the world? Find out now. If you're interested in finding out more about and supporting Josh's work, see the links below: learningtypescript...2023-01-1300 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 20 - What’s wrong with the software engineering industry? feat. Nick Rogers (VP of Engineering at Wagestream) This week Hywel is joined by the brilliant Nick Rogers, VP of Engineering at Wagestream, for a fast-paced debate-style episode! Hywel plays devils advocate and challenges Nick on his ideas about what’s wrong with the software engineering industry, in order for the two leaders to really tease out the answers to common and pertinent industry questions. Nick and Hywel talk software engineering as a team sport, the rarity of startups turning a profit, having a healthy skepticism towards hype and a lot more. 2022-12-1900 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 19 - How can, and how should, technology influence business decisions? feat. Sally Lait (VP of Engineering at Farewill)Our guest this week is Sally Lait, a highly experienced tech leader who is currently working as the VP of Engineering at Farewill. Sally has previously led engineering teams and served as the web disciple lead at Monzo, been the Head of Technology at a global digital agency and has founded her own digital transformation consultancy. In this episode, Hywel and Sally take a Skiller Whale-approved ‘deep dive’ into one of the most critical questions facing tech leaders today. Tune in to find out what you can do to integrate your team, hear about the risk...2022-12-0600 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 18 - How do you look after the mental health of your team, and still hit deadlines? feat. Omar Reid (CTO at Alena)This is a special episode recorded in the month of ‘Movember’, as we are keen to contribute to the movement raising awareness of mental health. If you or someone you know is struggling, it's really important to get the right help. You can find a link to some organisations that offer support in our LinkedIn post here.  In this show, Hywel is joined by Omar Reid, CTO at mental health start-up Alena, to discuss how to support your team, and still hit deadlines. Hywel and Omar discuss the mental health issues that can often arise in tech teams...2022-11-2800 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 17 - Should I focus on a sales-led or a product-led growth approach? feat. Lewis MooreThis week Hywel is joined by Lewis Moore, who previously helped carve a new category in hospitality operational software as CTO of Trailapp, and is now part of the early engineering team at Evidenced, an interview intelligence platform.  In this discussion, Lewis shares his experience in pivoting from an extremely sales-led growth approach, to a much more product-led one at Trailapp. 2022-11-1800 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 16 - Leading through change; where do you start? feat. Ryan Tomlinson (VP of Engineering at Healx)This episode features VP of Engineering and Product at Healx, Ryan Tomlinson. Ryan has previously led engineerings teams at OpenTable, Salesforce and GSK and this week, he joins our host Hywel to discuss what makes a good leader, and leans on his vast experience to address how you can drive change in a high performing organisation. Ryan and Hywel bond over being context-based advocates, talk the ‘30,000 foot view’ and slowing down to speed up. ‘Digital transformation’ on your mind? Hear Ryan’s insights on how people often play fast and loose with key terms in the tech i...2022-11-0400 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 15 - Agile vs Roadmap feat. Erynn Peterson (CTO at Simple Health)Erynn Peterson- ex-CTO of Drizly and current CTO of Simple Health joins Hywel in a discussion on the benefits and drawbacks of being agile and having a roadmap, and when each might be the better method to use.  If you want to hear a fresh take on a topic every tech leader has considered, this one’s for you. 2022-10-2800 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 14 - How do you grow a team fast? feat. Matt Belanger (Director of Engineering at Omnipresent)This week we’re delighted to have Omnipresent’s Director of Engineering, Matt Belanger joining us. Matt has scaled the engineering team from 2 to almost 90 over the last year or so and is an expert on fast growth. In a recent blog post, Hywel presented the discovery that it takes on average, 62 days to hire for senior roles in tech. Tune in to find out if you can beat that and have an effective tech team up and running at pace. 2022-10-1400 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 13 - Why does feedback matter? feat. Meri Williams (ex-CTO Monzo, MOO, Healx)Part 2 of last episode’s discussion sees Hywel Carver and Meri Williams focus on feedback and its relationship to empowerment. Tune in for useful tips on how- to, (and how- not- to) give and receive it. If this is a topic you’re interested in, here’s a link to a Meri-approved resource we think all leaders - tech or other, will find useful: Thanks for the Feedback - By Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen. 2022-09-3020 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 12 - How do I grow a culture of empowerment? feat. Meri Williams (ex-CTO Monzo, MOO, Healx)In the first of a brilliant two-part discussion, Hywel is joined by Meri Williams. Meri is an experienced CTO and leader of technology organisations. She has led teams ranging in size from 30 to 300, in a range of organisations from Procter and Gamble, to the Government Digital Service, to Monzo and AI-driven rare disease treatment discovery company Healx, amongst others. A published author and international speaker, she is the chair of The Lead Developer conference. In her spare time she enjoys building complex Lego, board & video gaming, snorkelling and underwater photography. In this episode, Meri and Hywel address...2022-09-1600 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 11 - How do you survive a downturn? feat. Simon Andrews (Head of Engineering at Hubble)Simon Andrews is the Head of Engineering at Hubble, London's largest online marketplace for renting flexible office space, and the world's first hybrid workplace platform. Simon has been coding since he was 10 and is now a people-focused leader, striving to build an engineering environment where everyone can thrive. In this episode, Hywel and Simon reflect on how Hubble navigated a period of economic pressure and uncertainty, and emerged from it successfully. 2022-08-2600 minCode Story: Insights from Startup Tech LeadersCode Story: Insights from Startup Tech LeadersS6 E11: Hywel Carver, SkillerWhaleHywel Carver has been writing code since he was 9 years old. His first language was C, which quite a language to start out in, and his first program was a "Guess the Number" program, using binary search - and of course, with an embedded Easter egg. He is married, with 2 children. Parenting has really pushed him to learn how to focus, and he regularly has to put things down to take care of other responsibilities. One of his biggest hobbies is pub quizzes, which in Britain is a big deal. In fact, he has been on a few quiz...2022-03-2933 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 10 - I’m scaling fast: Should I scale people or processes first? feat. Chris Conolly (Director of Software Engineering at Gousto)In this episode, Hywel and Chris discuss the challenges of growing quickly. Is it people or processes that you should scale first? How should you structure your teams to maximize scaling? What happens if you have enough people but not the right processes in place and how important is consistency? Chris is a self-described "passionate technology leader" with over a decade's experience leading teams at some of London's most well-known scale-ups. He's currently the Director of Software Engineering at Gousto and helping shape the rapid growth of the Tech team there as the company consistently outperforms its...2021-08-2626 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 10 - I’m scaling fast: Should I scale people or processes first? feat. Chris Conolly (Director of Software Engineering at Gousto)In this episode, Hywel and Chris discuss the challenges of growing quickly. Is it people or processes that you should scale first? How should you structure your teams to maximize scaling? What happens if you have enough people but not the right processes in place and how important is consistency? Chris is a self-described "passionate technology leader" with over a decade's experience leading teams at some of London's most well-known scale-ups. He's currently the Director of Software Engineering at Gousto and helping shape the rapid growth of the Tech team there as the company consistently outperforms its...2021-08-2626 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 9 - How do I address diversity in my tech team? feat. Laura Tacho (Executive Tech Consultant) In this episode, Laura and Hywel discuss diversity in tech teams, as well as some of the common mistakes companies make when trying to improve diversity in an existing team. They delve into questions such as: What’s the difference between diversity and inclusion? Why is a neutral interview process sometimes anti inclusive? Do you prioritise candidates who are a culture ‘add’, as opposed to a culture ‘fit’? And, what are the implications of having a founding team that lacks diversity? Laura Tacho is a product development leader with a successful track record leading cross-functional product de...2021-08-0329 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 9 - How do I address diversity in my tech team? feat. Laura Tacho (Executive Tech Consultant) In this episode, Laura and Hywel discuss diversity in tech teams, as well as some of the common mistakes companies make when trying to improve diversity in an existing team. They delve into questions such as: What’s the difference between diversity and inclusion? Why is a neutral interview process sometimes anti inclusive? Do you prioritise candidates who are a culture ‘add’, as opposed to a culture ‘fit’? And, what are the implications of having a founding team that lacks diversity? Laura Tacho is a product development leader with a successful track record leading cross-functional product de...2021-08-0300 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 8 - Is a Hacker good or bad? feat. Ted Harrington (Cybersecurity Expert)In this episode, Hywel and Ted discuss ethical hacking - what it is, when it is appropriate, and how widely the concept is misunderstood. What really is a hacker in the context of security and why are there so many misconceptions around securing software? Listen to this episode of Primarily Context-Based for answers to these questions and many more. Ted Harrington is the #1 best-selling author of HACKABLE: How to Do Application Security Right, and the Executive Partner at Independent Security Evaluators (ISE), the company of ethical hackers famous for hacking cars, medical devices, web applications, and password...2021-07-1931 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 8 - Is a Hacker good or bad? feat. Ted Harrington (Cybersecurity Expert)In this episode, Hywel and Ted discuss ethical hacking - what it is, when it is appropriate, and how widely the concept is misunderstood. What really is a hacker in the context of security and why are there so many misconceptions around securing software? Listen to this episode of Primarily Context-Based for answers to these questions and many more. Ted Harrington is the #1 best-selling author of HACKABLE: How to Do Application Security Right, and the Executive Partner at Independent Security Evaluators (ISE), the company of ethical hackers famous for hacking cars, medical devices, web applications, and password...2021-07-1900 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 7 - Should I use the Spotify model? feat. Rob Elkin (Co-Founder and CTO at Churnly)In this Episode, Hywel and Rob evaluate the pros and cons of using the Spotify model in your organization, when it is appropriate, and how. Should you have a front-end team, a back-end team, and a mobile team? Or should you really just have squads, guilds, tribes, and chapters? Listen to this episode to find out what you should be aiming for when introducing the model, and why that’s crucial to your success.  Rob Elkin is the Co-Founder and CTO at Churnly, a customer behavior software. Having been in technology for over 15 years, Rob started out as...2021-07-0523 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 7 - Should I use the Spotify model? feat. Rob Elkin (Founding Partner @ Rational Partners)In this Episode, Hywel and Rob evaluate the pros and cons of using the Spotify model in your organization, when it is appropriate, and how. Should you have a front-end team, a back-end team, and a mobile team? Or should you really just have squads, guilds, tribes, and chapters? Listen to this episode to find out what you should be aiming for when introducing the model, and why that’s crucial to your success.  Rob Elkin is the Founding Partner at Rational Partners a customer behavior software. Having been in technology for over 15 years, Rob started out as...2021-07-0500 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 6 - Should I re-platform? feat. Rich Kershaw (CTO & due diligence consultant)Is ‘legacy’ always a bad thing? In this episode, Hywel and Rich discuss whether re-platforming is really worth it, and how you know if, and when it is. They discuss the cost of re-platforming and how to prepare for its impact. Rich Kershaw is an experienced, multi-disciplined creative technologist with 20 years of experience, 17 of which are as a CTO. Over the years, Rich has covered an enormous range of different projects; from payments and UX to mobile app and website development, IoT and transit. Today, he combines due diligence consultancy for investors with working as a consulting CTO...2021-06-2138 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 6 - Should I re-platform? feat. Rich Kershaw (CTO & due diligence consultant)Is ‘legacy’ always a bad thing? In this episode, Hywel and Rich discuss whether re-platforming is really worth it, and how you know if, and when it is. They discuss the cost of re-platforming and how to prepare for its impact. Rich Kershaw is an experienced, multi-disciplined creative technologist with 20 years of experience, 17 of which are as a CTO. Over the years, Rich has covered an enormous range of different projects; from payments and UX to mobile app and website development, IoT and transit. Today, he combines due diligence consultancy for investors with working as a consulting CTO...2021-06-2100 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 5 - Should a CTO code? feat. Emanuele Blanco (CTO at Moneyfarm)In this episode of Primarily Context-Based, Hywel is joined by Emanuele Blanco to discuss the role of coding in leadership technology positions. Is it true that “if you’re coding, you’re not truly a CTO”? They discuss different versions of the CTO position, and how the choice to code or not to code impacts strategy and leadership, as well as the ownership, trust, and accountability of the development team.  Emanuele Blanco is a technology leader with over 10 years of experience helping businesses in sectors such as government, finance, and e-commerce to deliver value to their customers via moder...2021-06-0728 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 5 - Should a CTO code? feat. Emanuele Blanco (CTO at Moneyfarm)In this episode of Primarily Context-Based, Hywel is joined by Emanuele Blanco to discuss the role of coding in leadership technology positions. Is it true that “if you’re coding, you’re not truly a CTO”? They discuss different versions of the CTO position, and how the choice to code or not to code impacts strategy and leadership, as well as the ownership, trust, and accountability of the development team.  Emanuele Blanco is a technology leader with over 10 years of experience helping businesses in sectors such as government, finance, and e-commerce to deliver value to their customers via moder...2021-06-0728 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 4 - Am I data-driven enough? feat. Dave Millican (CTO and Co-Founder of Skiller Whale)In this episode, Hywel and Dave discuss everything data - why pure data is not always as it seems, why modeling data will not always make your predictions more accurate, and why data is contextual. They discuss examples from Sony, Ferrari, and Netflix and share anecdotes of how they learned that quantitative data is not relevant without qualitative data.  Together with Hywel, Dave Millican is the Co-Founder and CTO at Skiller Whale. He has managed data science teams and projects since 2012, including developing data-driven race simulation tools for the Ferrari F1 team and as the Lead Data Sc...2021-05-2432 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 4 - Am I data-driven enough? feat. Dave Millican (CTO and Co-Founder of Skiller Whale)In this episode, Hywel and Dave discuss everything data - why pure data is not always as it seems, why modeling data will not always make your predictions more accurate, and why data is contextual. They discuss examples from Sony, Ferrari, and Netflix and share anecdotes of how they learned that quantitative data is not relevant without qualitative data.  Together with Hywel, Dave Millican is the Co-Founder and CTO at Skiller Whale. He has managed data science teams and projects since 2012, including developing data-driven race simulation tools for the Ferrari F1 team and as the Lead Data Sc...2021-05-2400 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 3 - What is the best way to do Agile? feat. Squirrel (Executive Coach)In this episode, Hywel and Squirrel talk about the right way to do Agile. Having recently published a book called 'Agile Conversations', Squirrel offers interesting viewpoints on what has or has not worked for tech teams in the past. To read more about his book, go to https://www.douglassquirrel.com/index.html or listen to Squirrel's own podcast, Troubleshooting Agile, at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/troubleshooting-agile/id1327456890   Hywel Carver is the Co-Founder and CEO of Skiller Whale, a SaaS company enabling development for developers. Hywel was a CTO for a variety of VC...2021-04-2700 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 3 - What is the best way to do Agile? feat. Squirrel (Executive Coach)In this episode, Hywel and Squirrel talk about the right way to do Agile. Having recently published a book called 'Agile Conversations', Squirrel offers interesting viewpoints on what has or has not worked for tech teams in the past. To read more about his book, go to https://www.douglassquirrel.com/index.html or listen to Squirrel's own podcast, Troubleshooting Agile, at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/troubleshooting-agile/id1327456890   Hywel Carver is the Co-Founder and CEO of Skiller Whale, a SaaS company enabling development for developers. Hywel was a CTO for a variety of VC...2021-04-2727 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 2 - Should I adopt Kubernetes? feat. Jon Topper (Founder of The Scale Factory)In this episode, Hywel and Jon discuss which contexts are best for adopting Kubernetes (and which aren’t). They discuss the benefits and disadvantages, share experiences and evaluate the challenges of using Kubernetes. Prior to launching The Scale Factory in 2009, Jon Topper worked as a developer and lead systems administrator at mobile messaging startup Trutap. There he built an infrastructure around practices that would later be referred to as “DevOps”. Having cut his teeth on physical hardware and networks in the data centers – he started his career at Designer Servers (DSVR), one of the first UK companies to offer...2021-04-2234 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 2 - Should I adopt Kubernetes? feat. Jon Topper (Founder of The Scale Factory)In this episode, Hywel and Jon discuss which contexts are best for adopting Kubernetes (and which aren’t). They discuss the benefits and disadvantages, share experiences and evaluate the challenges of using Kubernetes. Prior to launching The Scale Factory in 2009, Jon Topper worked as a developer and lead systems administrator at mobile messaging startup Trutap. There he built an infrastructure around practices that would later be referred to as “DevOps”. Having cut his teeth on physical hardware and networks in the data centers – he started his career at Designer Servers (DSVR), one of the first UK companies to offer...2021-04-2234 minThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedThe Pod Presents: Primarily Context-BasedEp - 1 - How do I measure tech team efficiency? feat. Andy Skipper (Founder of CTO Craft)In this episode, Hywel and Andy discuss the pros and cons of different approaches to measuring tech team efficiency. They share horror stories about poor incentive strategies, as well as approaches that have worked for them.  Andy Skipper has led startup engineering teams as a CTO since 2006, including Made.com, and was the first CTO at Comic Relief, one of the largest charities in the UK. He now runs CTO Craft, a mentoring community and coaching practice focussed on CTOs and technology leaders, numbering 1100 and spanning the globe, where he helps technologists get to grips w...2021-03-1800 minPrimarily Context BasedPrimarily Context BasedEp - 1 - How do I measure tech team efficiency? feat. Andy Skipper (Founder of CTO Craft)In this episode, Hywel and Andy discuss the pros and cons of different approaches to measuring tech team efficiency. They share horror stories about poor incentive strategies, as well as approaches that have worked for them.  Andy Skipper has led startup engineering teams as a CTO since 2006, including Made.com, and was the first CTO at Comic Relief, one of the largest charities in the UK. He now runs CTO Craft, a mentoring community and coaching practice focussed on CTOs and technology leaders, numbering 1100 and spanning the globe, where he helps technologists get to grips w...2021-03-1835 min