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That Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 56: Ethnic Harmony Experiences (feat. Nathan and Catherine Gin)In this episode we continue our occasional conversations with folks from a variety of backgrounds on their thoughts and experiences around ethnic harmony. We interview Nathan and Catherine Gin, whose Chinese/Swiss/American backgrounds have given them a distinct view on how to think about ethnicity and culture. As a bonus we get stories about Nelson Mandela and bowling at the White House.
2024-06-0129 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 55: FitnessIn this episode we talk about a topic that is a passion for JT and a chore for Andy.  That’s working out.  If you want to see generational differences at work, check out this episode.
2024-05-0339 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 54: Digesting Our News FeedIn this episode we try to get a handle on how we get our news and how we make sense of what we get. This isn’t a ‘hot takes’ debate. It is two guys who want to stay up to date with what’s going on, but who don’t want to be buried under an avalanche of information and opinions in the process.  
2024-02-1345 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 53: Ethnic Harmony and a Latino PerspectiveIn this episode we interview Jorge Pardo, a man from Puerto Rico of Spanish and Cuban descent. Jorge talks about his cultural heritage and being a Latino in non-Latino spaces, and how he navigates that experience as a follower of Christ. 
2023-12-0738 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 52: ’The Funny Thing About Crying’JT and Andy talk about crying - why we do it and what it does for us.  This isn’t a conversation about sorrow or grief - it’s a conversation about the crazy ways our bodies work that produces the experience of crying. Paradoxically, we laugh a lot in this episode.
2023-11-0345 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 51: HappeningsJT and Andy catch up after a break in recording episodes to talk about what they've been doing, what they are currently listening to and reading, and they drop into a conversation about the value of friendship for those who are in ministry.
2023-10-2729 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 50: We Ruminate on PrayerAndy and JT discuss the practice, challenges and glories of prayer and how they have been inspired to pray by the experience and words of others.     Quotes: C. S. Lewis:  "Well, let’s now at any rate come clean.  Prayer is irksome.  An excuse to omit it is never unwelcome.  When it is over, this casts a feeling of relief and holiday over the rest of the day.  We are reluctant to begin.  We are delighted to finish.  While we are at prayer, but not while we are reading a novel or solving...
2023-09-1132 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 49: A Conversation with OnwuchekwaRecently we had a chance to sit down with pastor, author and urban entrepreneur John Onwuchekwa for a conversation about building healthy church communities in urban areas and a bunch of other things that came up.
2023-08-021h 05That Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 48: A Practical Vision for Multi-Ethnic Worship - Interview with Eric McAllister Part 2This is the second part of our interview with Eric McAllister, Director of Music and Liturgy at High Point Baptist Church in Austin Texas. In this episode, Eric walks us through his vision for creativity and theological depth as we gather to worship as the church. 
2023-03-1535 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 47: A Practical Vision for Multi-Ethnic Worship - Interview with Eric McAllister Part 1In the next two episodes we interview Eric McAllister, Director of Music and Liturgy at High Point Baptist Church in Austin Texas. Through his ministry Sunday Morning Songs, Eric is also creating modern hymnody to help churches experience richly theological and culturally diverse congregational singing as the gathered church.
2023-03-0126 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 46: Diversity in WorshipWe’re going to be jumping into a little bit of a mini-series in our next few episodes on celebrating ethnic diversity in worship in the church. We’ve got a special guest joining us in the series but want to kick off with a message Andy did on appreciating the cultural and musical styles that come to us as a worshipping church.
2023-02-1552 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 45: The Barrier Breaking Power of the GospelWe had another conversation ready to drop this week but we felt this January 15 message on Ethnic harmony from Acts 1 was so helpful, so we’re going with it.  We’ve also included some elements from the service in celebration of Ethnic Harmony in the church.  Enjoy and be inspired!
2023-01-2553 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 44: Let’s Celebrate Ethnic DiversityFoundations message by JT on the beauty of ethnic diversity in the church.
2023-01-1132 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 43: Ordinary GreatnessIn this episode, JT interviews Andy on his new book "Ordinary Greatness: A Life of Elias Boudinot". They talk about Elias, his character, his faith and what we can learn from a man who stood strong amid hard times. The book is available now!   You can buy the book here: https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Greatness-Life-Elias-Boudinot/dp/1585163902 
2022-11-3034 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 42: Self AwarenessIn this episode, JT and Andy discuss the topic of self awareness and how it's both a positive and negative thing in society.
2022-09-0737 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 41: Critical Race TheoryIn this episode, Andy gives a helpful sermon on what critical race theory is and what it means for us as Christians attempting to walk in harmony.    Sermon quotes used:   Voices on Critical Race Theory Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic: What do critical race theorists believe? Probably not every member would subscribe to every tenet set out in this book, but many would agree on the following propositions. First, that racism is ordinary, not aberrational...—“normal science,” the usual way society does business, the common, everyday experience of most p...
2022-08-2543 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 40: Pan-Tribal RelationshipsIn this episode, JT and Andy discuss the value of having relationships with people who think differently than you.
2022-08-1831 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 39: Passion vs. BalanceIn this episode, Andy and JT discuss how difficult it is to find balance in the things we are passionate in. Christopher Ash's book "Zeal Without Burnout" is referenced as a helpful resource in this category.
2022-07-1433 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 38: The Heart of AngerIn this episode, Andy and JT dissect the book "The Heart of Anger: How The Bible Transforms Anger In Our Understanding And Experience" by Christopher Ash and Steve Midgley. They also thank you for the kind comments and reviews! 
2022-05-1238 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 37: Confronting Trigger WordsIn this episode, JT and Andy take on a list of trigger words that are easily misunderstood and they work to define them and categorize them. Hopefully, this can be a resource for you as you hear these commonly used words/phrases.  Please send us trigger words that you'd like us to talk about on facebook/instagram/twitter @ThatDontFit
2022-03-2349 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 36: What Is Justice?In this episode, JT and Andy break down the topic of justice and the scriptures we need to consider when thinking about it. 
2022-01-2851 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 35: Talking About Race (Feat. Isaac Adams)Today we welcome a new friend to the podcast, Isaac Adams! He is the author of a book coming out in January called Talking About Race: Gospel Hope for Hard Conversations which we encourage you to pre-order now. Isaac is also the founder of United? We Pray which is a ministry devoted to praying amidst racial strife.  Listen as Isaac and your hosts talk about his ministry and book in depth and why we should be more active in prayer as we approach this topic.
2021-11-1753 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 34: Top 5 Movie FranchisesIn this laid back episode, Andy and JT discuss and debate each of their top five movie franchises. Enjoy!
2021-10-1342 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 33: The Virtue of HumilityAndy Farmer preaches on the topic of humility followed by a panel discussion including Jared Torrence and Leo Parris. 
2021-09-2333 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 32: Don't "Cancel" The ChurchIn this episode, JT and Andy talk about how generations view the church and discuss the positives and negatives of critiquing the church. 
2021-08-1838 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 31: The History of Slavery (Bonus)Andy and JT recorded this short episode to finish up our short series on the history of slavery that we released over Juneteenth as an educational resource. We hope this provides further clarification and insight over why this topic should be better understood in our community and our purpose/intent in making these episodes.
2021-08-1218 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 30: Work and RestIn this episode, JT and Andy dig into why it's important for us to rest. We are halfway through summer and relaxation is at the forefront of our minds. But it's helpful to really think through why we should rest and what that ought to look like. Enjoy this fun and encouraging conversation about why we need to take rest seriously.
2021-07-141h 03That Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 29: The History of Slavery (Part Two)In this episode, Andy and JT give a descriptive summary of how slavery came to be in the formation of our country. They dialogue based on intensive research why the founders did not abolish slavery when embarking on the American experiment.  As we remember Juneteenth, we thought it appropriate to dive deep into this difficult part of our history. So last week and this week featured episodes talking about this topic. We hope this can be a helpful resource to you as spend time learning, grieving, and celebrating the abolition of slavery in America.
2021-06-2335 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 28: The History of SlaveryIn this episode, Andy and JT give a descriptive summary of how slavery came to be in the formation of our country. They dialogue based on intensive research why the founders did not abolish slavery when embarking on the American experiment.  As we remember Juneteenth, we thought it appropriate to dive deep into this difficult part of our history. So this week and next week will feature episodes talking about this topic. We hope this can be a helpful resource to you as spend time learning, grieving, and celebrating the abolition of slavery in America.
2021-06-1739 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 27: Finding Your Way In ParenthoodIn this episode, Andy and JT continue their conversation on the topic of parenting. With JT in the throes of parenthood and Andy waving from the other side, they discuss their common experiences and principles that guided their perspective. ----more---- [1:48] - The Godzilla of parenting Bible Verses [9:02] - God's way is a mystery [13:18] - How do we know the way? [34:00] - We need to be spiritually disciplined [39:15] - Resources for parents [47:50] - What is something on your heart for parents?
2021-06-0954 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 26: Stumbling Into ParenthoodIn this episode, Andy and JT dive into the topic of parenting. With JT in the throes of parenthood and Andy waving from the other side, they discuss their common experiences at the start and what principles they carry/carried. ----more---- [2:05] - What comes to your mind when you think about parenting? [4:08] - The Torrence Family [14:40] - Andy isn't the baby-holder [16:40] - Coming home from the hospital [21:05] - What were your initial anxieties? [26:40] - What's your vision? [30:25] - Legacy [33:30] - What...
2021-05-1946 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 25: FriendshipIn this episode, Andy and JT dive into the topic of friendship. So many people feel alone and don't know how to make friends or how to deal with the loss of friends. They go back and forth with principles we need to hold heavily as we pursue friendship with one another. ----more---- [2:45] - Defining friendship [10:15] - What do you do when people don't want to be friends with you? [12:15] - Social Media [15:41] - "Made For Friendship" by Drew Hunter [22:15] - Losing friends [27:59] - Brothers...
2021-05-051h 11That Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 24: Gospel UnityJared Torrence preaches on the topic of gospel unity followed by a panel discussion including Andy Farmer and Jared Mellinger.
2021-04-2135 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 23: Historical Laws feat Cassie Juste (Part 3)This week we welcome Cassie Juste to the podcast to continue talking about historical laws. Cassie walks us through laws from the early 1900s to the modern day. It is difficult to come to terms with the fact that these laws are part of our recent history, but it's important to wrestle with the implications that these laws have on our lives today.
2021-04-081h 12That Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 22: PhonesIn this episode, Andy and JT talk about cell phones. They dive into the history of getting them and make fun of each other's likes/dislikes when it comes to this useful tool that is so easily misused.
2021-03-2447 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 21: Pastoring A Diverse ChurchContinuing our conversation with Tim Shorey on his book "Respect The Image," Andy and JT turn the conversation towards talking about what it's like to pastor a multi-ethnic church with a multi-ethnic leadership team. Listen as they discuss some of the benefits of experiencing diversity in the context of the church.
2021-03-1028 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 20: Respect The Image (feat Timothy Shorey)In this episode, Andy and JT interview Timothy Shorey about his new book Respect the Image: Reflecting Human Worth in how We Listen and Talk.  They dig deep into why the principles laid out in the book are important and it leads them into a broader conversation about how we ought to relate with friends, family, and our church. Read the book here
2021-03-0337 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 19: RedemptionAndy Farmer preaches on the topic of redemption followed by a panel discussion including Jared Torrence and Jared Mellinger. 
2021-02-2431 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 18: Unsung Heroes (Vivien Thomas & Henry Ossawa Tanner)Andy and JT celebrate the lives of some unsung heroes in the African American community. These are individuals that lived lives worthy of being known today and they each take time to share these powerful stories. Andy's hero is Henry Ossawa Tanner, an accomplished painter. JT's hero is Vivien Thomas, the man now credited for the breakthrough in heart surgery.  ----more---- [2:08] - Shoutout to Yasuke the African samurai [3:18] - JT's unsung hero: Vivien Thomas [11:38] - Doing post-doctorate work on a janitor's salary [14:56] - Falling out [16:24] - Legacy
2021-02-1744 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 17: Historical Laws feat Cassie Juste (Part Two)In this episode, we continue the conversation with Cassie Juste on historical laws. Cassie Juste is an accomplished attorney who has spent time studying historical laws that have shape the foundations of our society. Andy and JT interview her as she walks us some pivotal legislation that shaped our country. ----more---- [0:45] - The Emancipation Proclamation  [3:54] - Juneteenth [5:36] - Mass Incarceration [7:12] - Citizenship [8:31] - Reconstruction [15:52] - Black codes [18:40] - The black Church amidst adversity  
2021-02-1023 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 16: Historical Laws feat Cassie Juste (Part One)In this episode, we are excited to welcome our first guest! Cassie Juste is an accomplished attorney who has spent time studying historical laws that have shape the foundations of our society. Andy and JT interview her as she walks us through history and the laws throughout. ----more---- [2:12] - Introducing Cassie Juste [2:55] - History of laws [3:44] - Historical laws that are good to be aware of [4:48] - Laws that prohibit marraige [6:02] - The Declaration of Independence (1700s) [8:45] - Early 1800s [11:07] - Big picture...
2021-02-0319 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 15: Three Reasons Why The Black Church Matters (Part Two)In this two-part episode, Andy and JT give three (+30) reasons why the black Church matters to black and white evangelicals today. They dig into the history of the black Church and share what traits we should emulate as reformed evangelicals.  ----more---- [0:40] - It's the same Church [3:40] - White evangelicals need to dig into history [5:00] - Dr. George Kelsey [6:35] - Charles Octavius Boothe [8:50] - Black pastors were politicians  [11:26] - Consider some of the major biblical themes the black church prioritizes [12:10] - The Exodus theme le...
2021-01-2728 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 14: Three Reasons Why The Black Church Matters (Part 1)In this two-part episode, Andy and JT give three (+30) reasons why the black Church matters to black and white evangelicals today. They dig into the history of the black Church and share what traits we should emulate as reformed evangelicals.  ----more---- [2:40] - What is the black Church? [5:30] - Elevated kingdom mentality [6:35] - The AME Church [8:35] - Addressing why more people are leaving the historic black church [11:04] - Mindful of liberation [12:11] - Be thankful for the black Church [13:15] - Dr. Walter Strickland podcast episode (h...
2021-01-2024 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 13: Biblical & Historical Context of JusticeIn this episode, Andy and JT talk about what the Old Testament says on the topic of justice. They walk through Exodus and some other sections in the Old Testament and discuss how they should shape our perspective of the Christians' call today. ----more---- [1:56] - Words are a social construct [3:24] - Use the bible to interpret the rest of the world [5:09] - Injustice in Exodus [7:36] - Christians should focus on redemption in injustice [9:08] - Historical perspective [10:42] - Imposed injustice [13:10] - Injustice in David's...
2021-01-1327 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 12: The Gospel of Jesus ChristJared Torrence preaches on the The Gospel of Jesus Christ followed by a panel led by Andy Farmer with Jared Torrence and Jared Mellinger
2021-01-0636 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 11: Music - Formative Albums (Part Three)In this episode, Andy and JT finish up their series on formative albums that shaped their lives. Tune in for some funny stories and some solid album suggestions. ----more---- [4:50] - At Home With Owen by Owen [9:55] - Comes a Time by Neil Young [14:43] - The Midnight Oregon Fight by Frightened Rabbit [22:38] - My Aim Is True by Elvis Costello  [27:36] - The Mocker and the Monarch by Taelor Gray [32:52] - Winterlands 1978 by Bruce Springsteen
2020-12-0243 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 10: Music - Formative Albums (Part Two)In this episode, Andy and JT talk about six more albums for their music series. Just sit back, relax, and laugh at these stories about Angry Andy and Emo Jared as they share a bit about themselves through their music tastes.  ----more---- [1:49] - Andy album one - "Cosmos Factory" by Creedance Clearwater Revival  [6:05] - JT album one - "The First Days of Spring" by Noah And The Whale [11:32] - Andy album two - "Who's Next" by The Who  [15:45] - JT album two - "Strict Joy" by The Swell Season ...
2020-11-2537 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 9: Experience and SpacesIn this episode, JT talks about what it's like being a minority pastor in a predominately white church. It opened up the door for a powerful conversation about struggles he has faced along with some powerful application that every person should hear.  ----more---- [2:10] - Spaces: The Church [3:20] - I love the church [3:55] - Book One: Outside Insider by Bryan Loritts [5:20] - Book Two: Weep With Me by Mark Vroegop [5:55] - Excerpt from Weep With Me [7:35] - Common experience [10:35] - Cuts deeper when it c...
2020-11-1835 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 8: Music - Formative Albums (Part One)Andy and JT want to share a bit about themselves by telling you about music that has shaped their lives. They each created lists of albums and unpack them in this series to be continued.  ----more---- [4:25] - Introduction [6:38] - Andy 1: Greatest Hits by Three Dog Night [10:22] - Jared 1: Illinois by Sufjian Stevens [15:44] - Andy 2: Abbey Road by The Beatles [20:03] - Jared 2: The Narrative by Sho Baraka [29:10] - Two songs that will minister to your soul as a parent ----more---- Three Dog N...
2020-11-1133 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 7: The Glory of GodIn this episode we are taking a break from hot-button topics and focusing on the glory of God. This is being released one day after the 2020 election and we NEED to ground ourselves in the foundation of our faith. We tap into a resource we've provided the church with a teaching and a panel discussion on something fundamental.  ----more---- Preaching [1:15] - Intro and glory of God [3:35] - Glory is who God is…  [8:20] - The Glory of Me and first application point [13:03] - 2nd application point to end Panel ...
2020-11-0435 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 6: The Imago DeiHighlights of JT’s teaching and panel discussion on the Imago Dei and race/ethnicity.
2020-10-2831 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 5: Experience and StructuresIn this episode, JT and Andy practice awkward conversations. The goal was originally to talk about structures and spaces and how our experience shapes our perspective of them. But it turned into a deeper conversation about law enforcement, which the hosts had never discussed before.  ----more---- [3:28] - Big Barriers [4:19] - Structures [5:39] - Law Enforcement [8:17] - Difference in experience [9:34] - Structures are made by flawed people [11:15] - Corruption shouldn't surprise us [12:20] - People are nuanced [13:13] - Difference in being a problem vs b...
2020-10-2135 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 4: Empathy and Vulnerability in Race ConversationsLast episode, Andy and JT were talking about how personal experience plays conversations about race. This episode highlights one uncomfortable interaction in their exchange and they dig int why it was uncomfortable.----more---- [9:15] - Everyday empathy [10:37] - Empathy is uncomfortable [12:04] - Being empathetic is not a quick thing [12:47] - The first thing out of our mouths is not the right thing [13:21] - Empathy is like gratefulness [13:47] - Bridges [14:35] - Easy empathy [16:20] - Cultural appropriation [18:44] - What would happen if we started...
2020-10-1427 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 3: Growing Up With Race-Tinted Glasses.Our experience shapes our perception when coming into conversations about race. JT and Andy dive into why this is and how it can be a good thing.  [5:00] - We can't get away from where we came from [7:43] - Realizing we are different [9:50] - No one talked about the Civil War in the South [12:54] - Difference between the South and the North today [14:02] - Trying to make people feel comfortable [14:44] - My presence causes fear [21:09] - Personal is too personal [24:42] - What do you w...
2020-10-0730 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 2: Race and TheologyIn this episode we are talking about Race and Theology. JT and Andy dig into the biblical principles we need to consider when approaching weighty topics like race. We hope to model productive discourse on real life and real issues starting with our biblical foundation.----more---- [2:56] - The world doesn't have the answers [5:40] - JT on BLM [7:36] - Everyone is a theologian [9:10] - The gospel is the point [10:12] - You're always getting discipled [12:37] - Talking about race leads to the gospel (funny moment) [14:18] - Gentle...
2020-09-3040 minThat Don’t Fit
That Don’t FitEpisode 1: IntroductionIn this episode, Andy and JT introduce themselves and introduce the purpose of this podcast. They detail how the next episodes will go and share how they plan to navigate the difficult terrain of racial reconciliation.   
2020-09-1826 min