Joanne Lockwood is joined by behavioural scientist and strategic inclusion expert Dr Liz Wilson to explore what actually makes workplace equity stick. Rather than treating inclusion as something achieved by changing minds through training alone, they focus on the behavioural science of systems, processes, and organisational “architecture” that makes inclusive action the default.
Liz explains why many DEI efforts struggle when they’re delivered as fragmented, label-by-label programmes, and shares her “eight inclusion needs of all people” framework as a universal, intersectional alternative. Together, they discuss why recruitment should come after building the conditions for retention and thriving, and how small design choices in workflows can shape behaviour at scale.
The conversation also touches on the psychology of resistance and backlash, the role of values alignment and team-level culture, and how lived experience can shape both insight and resilience. Liz shares parts of her personal story, including her late ADHD diagnosis and chronic pain, and they reflect on how people can be brought into change through language and approaches that reduce defensiveness and widen engagement.
