Shows
AFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Norman RouleAFIO Now presents a special episode with Norman Roule, former National Intelligence Manager, ODNI; former Division Chief, CIA Operations Officer, Chief of Station.
In this AFIO Special Edition episode Norm Roule and Jim Hughes discuss recent attacks by US and Israel on Iran. Questions covered: Imagine the Supreme Leader is meeting with his inner security circle. What are their priorities at this moment? Are they achievable? And what weapons of the regime still have at its disposal? If things were starting to come apart in Iran, what are some of the highlights that we should look for...2025-07-1437 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Alexander Rose PhDAuthor Alexander Rose PhD discusses his book, "Washington's Spies: The Story of America's First Spy Ring" with AFIO President, James Hughes.
"Fascinating…. tells how the work of the spies proved to be the tipping point in the summer of 1778, helping Washington begin breaking the stalemate with the British…. [and] brings to light their crucial help in winning American independence."—Dallas Morning News
"After working on Washington, I knew there was a story to tell about his reliance on spies during the Revolutionary War. But I believed the story could never be told because the evidence did not...2025-06-2320 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Leon CarrollLeon Carroll Jr, co-author (with Mark Harmon) on "Ghosts of Panama: A Strongman Out of Control, A Murdered Marine, and the Special Agents Caught in the Middle of an Invasion." The warm relationship in 1989 between US and Gen. Manuel Noriega has eroded dangerously. President George Bush declares Noriega a drug trafficker and a rigger of elections causing intimidation on streets for U.S. personnel. The nation becomes a powder keg.
Naval Investigative Service (NIS) Special Agent Rick Yell has worked the job in Panama since 1986, and lives there with wife Annya and a child. Yell develops an i...2025-06-0933 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Mike MearsMike Mears, former CIA Chief of HR, on his book Certainty: How Great Bosses Can Change Minds and Drive Innovation. Discover how great leaders draw out the best of human nature. That our Stone Age brains are hardwired for survival and programmed to fear the unknown, yet the work world demands constant innovation. The enemy of better leadership is uncertainty deeply buried in the minds of your workforce. Mears urges greater understanding of human nature. Work with it rather than push against it. He draws on neuroscience and psychology -- plus compelling stories from his Agency career -- to...2025-05-2642 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Joseph FinderJoseph Finder, author and Russian Studies expert discusses his novel, "The Oligarch's Daughter." It is a breakneck thriller that marries the dynastic opulence of Succession with the tense and disorienting spycraft of The Americans.
Interview of Tuesday, 13 March 2025. Interviewer and Host: AFIO President James Hughes.
2025-05-1211 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nicholas ReynoldsNicholas Reynolds PhD discussing his 2022 book "Need to Know: World War II and the Rise of American Intelligence" with AFIO President, James Hughes.
Interview of Tuesday, 4 March 2025. Interviewer and Host: AFIO President James Hughes.
2025-04-2828 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Douglas WallerDouglas Waller, Historian, Author, and Foreign Correspondent, discusses his new book "The Determined Spy: The Turbulent Life and Times of CIA Pioneer Frank Wisner" with AFIO President, James Hughes. Frank Wisner was one of the most powerful men in 1950s Washington, though few knew it. Reporting directly to senior U.S. officials--his work largely hidden from Congress and the public--Wisner masterminded some of the CIA’s most controversial operations in the early years of the Cold War, commanding thousands of clandestine agents around the world.
Interview of Monday, 31 March 2025. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President.
2025-04-1429 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Leon CarrollLeon Carroll Jr, co-author (with Mark Harmon) on "Ghosts of Honolulu: A Japanese Spy, A Japanese American Spy Hunter, and the Untold Story of Pearl Harbor" A U.S. naval counterintelligence officer working to safeguard Pearl Harbor; a Japanese spy ordered to Hawaii to gather information on the American fleet. On December 7, 1941, their hidden stories are exposed by a morning of bloodshed that would change the world forever. Scrutinizing long-buried historical documents, NCIS star Mark Harmon and co-author Leon Carroll, a former NCIS Special Agent, have brought forth a true-life NCIS story of deception, discovery, and danger.
...2025-03-3132 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Joby WarrickAuthor, Joby Warrick discusses his 2020 book "RED LINE on The Unraveling of Syria and America's Race to Destroy the Most Dangerous Arsenal in the World" with AFIO President, James Hughes.
Interview of Monday, 27 January 2025. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President
2025-03-1735 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James ScottJames M. Scott, co-author with Jack Carr, of "Targeted: Beirut: The 1983 Marine Barracks Bombing and the Untold Story of the War on Terror." A behind-the-scenes account of a mission and a fight that changed America. It was the event that ushered in the War on Terror. And it shows the pitfalls of American hubris, overreach, and irresponsible military intervention. Paints the entire picture of mind-boggling events before, during, and after the Beirut Bombing, from ancient history to present day. The authors tell the story through voices of Marines, Sailors, and Soldiers who endured the two-year “peacekeeping” operation. We also expe...2025-03-0326 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Mickey BergmanMichael "Mickey" Bergman, the CEO of Global Reach and the Vice President and Executive Director of the Richardson Center for Global Engagement. He is also the author (with Ellis Henican) of "In the Shadows: True Stories of High-Stakes Negotiations to Free Americans Captured Abroad."
Bergman is responsible for the negotiations that brought many high-profile prisoners home, including Brittney Griner, Danny Fenster, Otto Warmbier, and Trevor Reed. In the Shadows details his never-before-told stories inside the secret negotiations to free Americans from some of the world’s most repressive countries, including North Korea, Russia, Hamas, and more.
...2025-02-1756 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Jesse FinkAuthor, Jesse Fink talks with AFIO President, James Hughes about his new book, "The Eagle in the Mirror: The Greatest Spy Story Never Told" on Charles Howard "Dick" Ellis, MI6's Top Agent in America During World War II. In search of war hero, master spy, and alleged traitor Charles Howard "Dick" Ellis.
Interview of Tuesday, 1 Oct 2024. Host: AFIO President James Hughes, a former senior CIA Operations Officer.
2025-02-0315 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Patrick O'DonnellPatrick K. O'Donnell, military historian and author, on his new book "The Unvanquished: The Untold Story of Lincoln’s Special Forces, the Manhunt for Mosby’s Rangers, and the Shadow War That Forged America’s Special Operations" released 7 May 2024.
Interview of Tuesday, 3 September 2024. Host: James Hughes.
2025-01-2031 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Joseph KeoghJoseph Keogh PhD, former CIA Science & Technology Executive and Disguise Expert, discusses his new book "Creating Mission Impact: Essential Tradecraft for Innovators at CIA and Beyond" co-authored with Joe Ball and Greg Moore.
Interviewed: Thursday, 24 October 2024. Host: James Hughes. Interviewer: Christopher J. Parker.
2024-12-1638 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Barry WerthAuthor Barry Werth discusses his book, Prisoner of Lies: Jack Downey's Cold War with AFIO President, Jim Hughes. They discuss the remarkable true story of the longest-held prisoner of war in American history, John Downey, Jr., a CIA officer captured in China during the Korean War and imprisoned for twenty-one years. The interview runs 28 minutes with several Q&As.
Interview of Thursday, 1 Aug 2024. Host and Interviewer: AFIO President James Hughes.
2024-12-0227 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Barry BromanBarry Broman, author, producer, photographer, former Marine, CIA Clandestine Service Officer, Station Chief, and Diplomat discusses his career with AFIO President, James Hughes. Broman details his experience as a Marine fighting in Vietnam, joining the CIA, serving as Chief of Station, and supervising an international paramilitary project in support of the Cambodian resistance to Vietnamese invaders. Tune in today to listen to Barry Broman and James Hughes discuss the fascinating people he met, places he has been, and his visits to little-known and rarely seen places like the Naga Hills on the India-Burma border.
Interviewed on: Thursday, 11 J...2024-11-1837 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: MG Charles ClevelandMG Charles Cleveland, US Army (Ret) and former Director of Operations and Military Deputy Director of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, discusses his long and fascinating career in the intelligence community with former senior officer of NGA and ODNI, Jennifer Daniel.
Interview: Monday, 1 July 2024. Host: James Hughes. Interviewer: Jennifer Daniel.
2024-11-0448 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Lillian WangLillian Wang, TV & Film Writer, Lawyer, Former CIA Clandestine Service Officer, discusses her impressive career trajectory with AFIO President Jim Hughes. After immigrating to the U.S. at a young age, she mastered the language and customs and excelled in school. Lillian joined the CIA and trained as a Clandestine Services officer, serving many years here and abroad, resigning for family reasons and obtaining a law degree. She then shifted to a career in TV and Movies as a writer and subject matter expert on CIA, the IC, espionage, and spying to bring accuracy to productions for which she h...2024-10-2118 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Alma KatsuAuthor, former NSA, and CIA officer Alma Katsu discusses her upcoming book series The Spy Who Vanished - a realistic look at where intelligence agencies are in the 21st century.
Interview: Monday, 17 June 2024. Host and Interviewer: AFIO President James Hughes.
2024-10-0717 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: RADM Peg KleinRADM Peg Klein speaks with AFIO board member Everette Jordan about her exceptional career at the NSA, the US Cyber Command, and the US Navy.
Interview: Tuesday, 28 May 2024. Hosted by AFIO President James Hughes, Interviewed by Everette Jordan.
2024-09-2324 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Dr. Vince Houghton and Eric Driggs Dr Vince Houghton and Eric Driggs discuss their new book: Covert City: The Cold War and the Making of Miami (PublicAffairs Books, Apr 2024) with AFIO President James Hughes. The history of how the entire city of Miami was constructed in the image of the US-Cuba rivalry. From the Bay of Pigs invasion to the death of Fidel Castro. They discuss secret operations, corruption, crime, and a city teeming with spies and why Miami was as crucial to winning the Cold War as Washington, D.C., or Moscow.
Interview: Monday, 20 May 2024. Hosted by James Hughes, AFIO President. 2024-09-0947 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Army OSINT Office's New StrategyOSINT Defense Intelligence Senior Leader Dennis Eger and Director of Army OSINT Office Shawn Nilius discuss the Army Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) Strategy. The Army defines OSINT as a foundational intelligence discipline that plays a central role in the support of operations. Interviewed by Jennifer Daniel, former senior officer of NGA and ODNI, and hosted by AFIO President James Hughes.
Interview of Monday, 29 Apr 2024
2024-08-2651 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Brian MorraFormer US Air Force Intelligence Officer and senior aerospace executive Brian J. Morra discusses his semi-fiction book "The Righteous Arrows" with AFIO President James Hughes. The book highlights the stubbornly persistent rivalry between the US and Russia in a story of international espionage and war.
Interview: Monday, 15 Apr 2024. Interviewed by James Hughes
2024-08-1217 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Jonna MendezFormer CIA Chief of Disguise, Jonna Mendez, discusses her latest book,
"In True Face: A Woman's Life in the CIA, Unmasked" with Linda Millis, former CIA, NSA, and ODNI. A courageous story of being a female spy at the height of the Cold War. She began her CIA career as a "contract wife" performing secretarial duties for the Agency. Yet Mendez had a talent for espionage and soon took on more significant roles at the Agency. She parlayed her interest in photography into an operational role overseas. She lived undercover and served tours of duty all over the g...2024-07-2927 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Alexander RoseAuthor and historian Alexander Rose discusses his latest book "The Lion And The Fox: Two Rival Spies and the Secret Plot to Build a Confederate Navy." In 1861, soon after the outbreak of the Civil War, two secret agents — one a Confederate, the other his Union rival — were dispatched to neutral Britain, each entrusted with a vital mission. This is the untold tale of two implacable foes and their twilight struggle for the highest stakes involving the lucrative Cotton trade.
Interview: Tuesday, 13 February 2024. Host and Interviewer: AFIO President James Hughes, a former senior CIA Operations Officer and Former NSA...2024-07-1529 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James RothJames Roth, author and former CIA Officer, on The Dead Drop: Espionage is a Dangerous Game for Amateurs, explores themes of duplicity and betrayal. The novel captures the human tension of real-world espionage with a memorable cast of characters. Former CIA Officer James Lawler wrote of the book: "...a riveting tale of spies, youthful idealism, and adult betrayal, which accelerates to a thrilling climax worthy of a major motion picture."
Interview on Friday, 9 February 2024. Host and Interviewer is AFIO President James Hughes, a former senior CIA Operations Officer and Former NSA Associate Deputy Director of Operations. The...2024-07-0121 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James StejskalIn this episode, James Stejskal, Author, Military Historian, Conflict Archaeologist, former CIA, and Special Forces, discusses his book "Dead Hand" on what happens after Russia has won the war in Ukraine and is eyeing the Baltics. As the world stands on the precipice of war, a legendary CIA Officer rushes to meet a spy deep in the Kremlin, on an operation where failure could mean nuclear Armageddon. Recorded 12 December 2023. Interviewer and host: AFIO President James Hughes, a former senior CIA Operations Officer and Former NSA Associate Deputy Director of Operations.
2024-06-1713 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Ronald DrabkinIn this episode, Ronald Drabkin, author of Beverly Hills Spy: The Double-Agent War Hero Who Helped Japan Attack Pearl Harbor, discusses the story of the WWI hero who became a fixture of high society in Golden Age Hollywood while acting as a double agent for the Japanese Empire as it prepared to attack Pearl Harbor. Recorded 01 Feb 2024. Host and Interviewer: James Hughes, AFIO President and former senior CIA Operations Officer.
2024-06-0318 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Jennifer EwbankIn this new episode, Jennifer Ewbank discusses her position as the Deputy Director of CIA for Digital Innovation and her responsibility for accelerating the development and integration of digital and cyber capabilities across all of CIA’s mission areas as well as building the digital acumen of the CIA workforce through training and education. Ms Ewbank retired from her CIA post shortly after this interview. Recorded 3 Jan 2024. Host: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. Interviewer: Paul Hollingsworth PhD, former senior CIA Executive in Analysis and Operations and AFIO Board member.
2024-05-2035 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Gordon CoreraIn this episode, BBC National Security Correspondent Gordon Corera discusses his book "Operation Columba - The Secret Pigeon Service: The Untold Story of World War II Resistance in Europe." The book reveals the fascinating, untold story of how British intelligence secretly used homing pigeons as part of a clandestine espionage operation to gather information, communicate, and coordinate with members of the Resistance to defeat the Nazis in occupied Europe during World War II. Recorded 1 Dec 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-05-0620 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Liza MundyIn this new episode, award-winning journalist and New York Times-bestselling author Liza Mundy discusses her newest book "The Sisterhood: The Secret History of Women at the CIA." Recorded 10 Nov 2023. Host: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. Interviewer: Linda Millis, former Senior CIA, NSA, and ODNI Executive, current Assistant Professor at Marymount University and AFIO Board member.
2024-04-2323 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Chip BeckIn this episode, former senior CIA operations officer and Naval Commander Chip Beck discusses his book "Final Days of Heroes: How a CIA Agent and his Cambodian Allies Fought, Defied, and Resisted the Khmer Rouge." Recorded 19 Oct 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-04-0924 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Brian MorraIn this episode, Brian Morra - Former US Air Force Intelligence Officer and senior aerospace executive - discusses his book "The Able Archers," which is a work of fiction based on the 1983 Soviet nuclear war crisis wherein Soviet leaders were convinced that the U.S. was preparing to launch a surprise nuclear attack on the USSR under the cover of a NATO exercise titled “Able Archer.” Recorded 17 Oct 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-03-2625 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Stuart ReidIn this episode, Stuart A. Reid - Executive Editor of Foreign Affairs - discusses his new book "The Lumumba Plot: The Secret History of the CIA and a Cold War Assassination." Recorded 2 Oct 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-03-1129 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Dr. John GentryIn this episode, Dr. John A. Gentry - former Senior CIA Analyst and current Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University - discusses his recent book "Strategic Warning Intelligence: History, Challenges, and Prospects." Dr. Gentry explains the 'paradox of warning' and what needs to done in the U.S. to revive and re-establish a healthy warning system. Recorded 28 Sept 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-02-2635 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Special Edition - 'Iran and Its Surrogates' with Norman Roule*AFIO Special Edition episodes offer intelligence expertise and assessments of breaking news*
In this inaugural AFIO Special Edition episode, former CIA Division Chief and National Intelligence Manager for ODNI Norman Roule discusses the aerial system attack at a military base in Jordan near the Syrian border last week that killed 3 service members. Recorded 31 Jan 2024. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-02-0527 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Gen Michael HaydenIn this episode, Michael V. Hayden, General USAF (Ret), Former Director of NSA and CIA, and first Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence (PDDNI), discusses the biggest challenges he faced in the senior positions he held in the U.S. Intelligence Community. He also offers advice to those considering careers in intelligence. Recorded 31 July 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-01-2213 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Jimmy BurnsIn this episode, prize winning author and journalist Jimmy Burns discusses his latest book "A Faithful Spy: The Life and Times of an MI6 and MI5 Officer" which unveils the exceptional intelligence career of Walter Bell. Recorded 14 Nov 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2024-01-0843 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: David BickfordIn this episode, David Bickford - former UK Under Secretary of State and MI5 & MI6 Legal Director - discusses his spy thriller "Katya," which takes inspiration from his career in Britain's premier intelligence agencies. Bickford also provides advice to those considering a career in the intelligence services. Recorded 20 July 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-12-0410 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James Bamford Part IIIn the second of a 2-part series for AFIO Now, award-winning journalist/author, James Bamford discusses his latest book, "Spyfail: Foreign Spies, Moles, Saboteurs, and the Collapse of America’s Counterintelligence." Bamford describes foreign operations against the U.S. and our allies and gives an overview of the expansion of Chinese listening posts in Hong Kong, Mainland China, and Cuba. Recorded 19 July 2023. Host: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. Interviewer: John Quattrocki, AFIO Treasurer and former Senior FBI Officer.
2023-11-221h 16AFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Michael Vickers Part IIIn the second of a two-part series, former CIA Operations Officer and Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers discusses his new memoir, "By All Means Available: Memoirs of a Life in Intelligence, Special Operations, and Strategy." Recorded 29 Jun 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-11-0651 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: I.S. BerryIn this episode, former CIA Operations Officer, lawyer, and novelist I.S. Berry discusses her latest novel, "The Peacock and the Sparrow", a spy thriller that takes place against the backdrop of the Arab Spring. Recorded 5 July 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-10-2311 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Robert ByerIn this special episode, CIA Museum Director and Curator Robert Byer gives a sneak peek at the newly renovated and expanded CIA Museum. Byer reveals some of the new artifacts and describes a few of the unusual collections. This special tour also Includes a first look (by many) of the remarkable model used to brief President Biden on the al-Zawahiri mission. Recorded 12 Jun 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-10-0932 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Michael Vickers Part IIn the first of a two-part series, former CIA Operations Officer and Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers discusses his new memoir, "By All Means Available: Memoirs of a Life in Intelligence, Special Operations, and Strategy." Recorded 9 Jun 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-09-2541 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Matthew BlackIn this episode, historian and author Matthew Black discusses his book "Operation Underworld: How the Mafia and U.S. Government Teamed Up to Win World War II." Black reveals the full story of how American Mafia boss Charles “Lucky” Luciano was recruited by U.S. Naval Intelligence in 1942 to aid the Allied war effort in the U.S. invasion of Sicily - which was a turning point in WWII. Recorded 2 Jun 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-09-1136 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Richard LawlessIn this episode, Richard Lawless - a former CIA operations officer - discusses his book "Hunting Nukes" which chronicles Lawless's half-century quest to seek out and expose undeclared nuclear weapons activities by countries of the highest concern to the US government. In particular. Lawless reveals the successful takedown of the South Korean strategic weapons program in the mid-1970s. He describes in detail the CIA's operation that detected, penetrated, defined, and eventually blocked that country’s covert effort. Lawless also recounts his duties during the 2002-2008 talks with the rogue North Korean regime—the so-called “Six Party Talks." Recorded 1 Jun 202...2023-08-2828 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: LTG Michael Groen (USMC, Ret)In this episode, LTG Michael Groen - the former Commander of the Joint Artificial Intelligence Center - delves into the meaning, uses, adoption problems, and ethics of AI in the military and beyond. Recorded 4 May 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-08-1543 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Brittany ButlerIn this episode, Brittany Butler - a former intelligence officer - discusses her first novel, "The Syndicate Spy." Based on her experiences as a CIA targeting officer, the thriller tells the tale of two female spies as they race to uncover terrorist conspiracies and ultimately change the course of war. Recorded 2 May 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-07-3115 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Shane Harris Part IIIIn his third episode, senior National Security Reporter for The Washington Post Shane Harris discusses the recent shocking events in Ukraine - from the Wagner Group's march towards Moscow, to missing Russian generals, to Putin's renewed threats to use tactical nuclear weapons. Recorded 7 July 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-07-1724 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James Bamford Part IIn the first of a 2-part series for AFIO Now, award-winning journalist/author, James Bamford discusses his latest book, "Spyfail: Foreign Spies, Moles, Saboteurs, and the Collapse of America’s Counterintelligence." Bamford describes the expanding capability of foreign countries to conduct large-scale espionage within the US and how the FBI and other agencies are struggling to prevent it. Recorded 14 Apr 2023. Host: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. Interviewer: John Quattrocki, AFIO Treasurer and former Senior FBI Officer.
2023-07-031h 03AFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Alma KatsuIn this episode, Alma Katsu, a former intelligence officer and award winning author, discusses her newest novel Red London. The second book in this spy thriller series is set in a post-Putin Russia which has been financially devastated by its loss in the war with Ukraine. Alma also discusses her career experiences at NSA and CIA, gives pointers to women considering careers in the Intelligence Community, and reflects on the path that led to her success as a fiction writer. Recorded 29 March 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-06-1222 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nigel West Part III - Hitler’s Trojan Horse-Fall of The AbwehrIn this final installment of a three-part series, acclaimed intelligence historian and author Nigel West discusses his book, "Hitler's Trojan Horse: The Fall of The Abwehr." Recorded 19 Jan 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-05-2217 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Erik DahlIn this episode, Naval professor and author Erik Dahl discusses his latest book, "The COVID-19 Intelligence Failure: Why Warning Was Not Enough" which explores the roles that both traditional intelligence services, medical intelligence, and surveillance systems play in providing advance warning against public health threats ― and how these systems must be improved for the future. Recorded 2 March 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-05-0132 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nigel West Part II - Hitler’s Nest of Vipers-Rise of The AbwehrIn this second installment of a three-part series, acclaimed intelligence historian and author Nigel West discusses his book, "Hitler's Nest of Vipers: The Rise of The Abwehr." Recorded 19 Jan 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-04-1020 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Todd BennettIn this episode, historian, professor, and author Todd Bennett discusses his latest book - "Neither Confirm nor Deny: How the Glomar Mission Shielded the CIA from Transparency" - about the secret CIA mission using billionaire Howard Hughes's deep-sea mining vessel to retrieve a sunken Soviet sub. Recorded 1 Feb 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-03-2723 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Vince Houghton and the National Cryptologic MuseumIn his third episode for AFIO Now, Vince Houghton discusses his role as the Director/Curator of the National Cryptologic Museum and gives a sneak peek at the one-of-a-kind exhibits now on display at the newly reopened museum - including the The Hitler Enigma -- the only remaining B-variant Enigma --and the original Jefferson Cipher device. Recorded 20 Jan 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-03-1319 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nigel West Part I - Spies Who Changed HistoryIn this first installment of a three-part series, acclaimed intelligence historian and author Nigel West discusses the captivating figures from his recent book, "Spies Who Changed History: The Greatest Spies and Agents of the 20th Century." Recorded 15 Jan 2023. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-02-2720 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Geoff O’ConnellIn this episode, Geoff O'Connell - Senior CIA Operations Officer and former Chief of Station Tel Aviv - discusses the 2002 siege by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) at the Church of the Nativity -- the purported birthplace of Jesus Christ -- in Bethlehem in the West Bank, which targeted Palestinian terrorists who had taken shelter in the church. Recorded 8 Nov 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-02-0624 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Presents: Norman Roule Part IIFormer CIA Division Chief and National Intelligence Manager for ODNI, Norman Roule provides an update to his March 2021 interview by reporting on the state of Iran today and how current and future administrations should approach the regime. Recorded 11 Nov 2022. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-01-2325 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Bruce HendersonIn this episode, Bruce Henderson - author of "Bridge to the Sun: The Secret Role of the Japanese Americans Who Fought in the Pacific in World War II" -
discusses the selfless military service by Japanese Americans who participated in numerous dangerous operations assisting the US and its Allies in winning WWII, all while knowing they had another battle to win back home in the US as their friends and family members were being sent to internment camps. Recorded 25 Oct 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2023-01-1035 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nicholas ReynoldsIn this episode, former CIA historian and author Nicholas Reynolds discusses his recently released book "Need to Know: World War II and the Rise of American Intelligence" which details the birth of the first American spy service and the role of the original US codebreakers. Dr. Reynolds also reveals how WWII histories are researched and written and examines their continuing popularity. Recorded 11 Oct 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-12-1925 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Shelby Pierson III - NGAIn her third AFIO Now episode, Shelby Pierson - now the NGA Deputy Director for Source Operations & Management Directorate - reveals how the processing and availability of commercial imagery has grown and fundamentally changed the landscape for satellite imagery. She describes the newest (unclassified) imagery capabilities and how they have impacted the GEOINT Team, including how they help uncover war crimes and assist in responding to natural disasters worldwide. Recorded 11 Oct 2022. Host: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. Interviewer: Jennifer Daniel, former Senior NGA Officer and current AFIO Board member.
2022-12-0539 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Itai ShapiraIn this episode, Col. Itai Shapira, a former Deputy Head of Analysis for the Israeli Defense Intelligence Service, discusses the Israeli national intelligence culture - including the system of beliefs, values, and approaches which are unique to Israeli intelligence and the themes that are shared with other intelligence services across the world. Recorded 26 August 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-11-1426 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Chris RasmussenIn this episode, Chris Rasmussen, Founder and Program Manager of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency's "Tearline Project," discusses the unique NGA program which delivers unclassified, original GEOINT content to a customer’s mobile device. The remarkable program also engages universities, nonprofit agencies, think tanks, and other entities -- public and private -- with unique public-facing collaborative efforts to maximize external information sharing. Recorded 16 Aug 2022. Host: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. Interviewer: Jennifer Daniel, former Senior NGA Officer and current AFIO Board member.
2022-10-3132 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Shane Harris Part IIIn his second episode, senior National Security Reporter for The Washington Post Shane Harris gives an update on the dangerously fluctuating situation in Ukraine - from Putin's sudden conscription of 300,000 unwilling troops, to nuclear weapons threats, and the mysterious sabotage of the Nordstream Pipeline. Recorded 4 Oct 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-10-1729 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nathalia HoltIn this episode, author Nathalia Holt discusses her newest release, "Wise Gals: The Spies Who Built the CIA and Changed the Future of Espionage" which illuminates the lives and careers of four trailblazing women who served in the early days of OSS and CIA. Recorded 05 Aug 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-09-2615 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Eliot JardinesAFIO Now presents Eliot Jardines, former Assistant Deputy Director of National Intelligence for Open Source (ADDNI/OS). In this episode, Jardines discusses Open Source Intelligence (OSINT) and how publicly available information can provide actionable intelligence and directly impact current events. Recorded 29 June 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-09-1231 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Alex FinleyAFIO Now presents Alex Finley, former CIA operations officer, author, and the owner of the wildly popular Twitter feed #YachtWatch. In this episode, Finley discusses her career, her three satirical novels about the CIA, and her her expertise in Russian intelligence and influence which informs her Twitter account that tracks the international movements of the mega-yachts owned by Russian oligarchs. Recorded 23 May 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-08-2226 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Ron EstesIn this episode, Ron Estes - a former senior CIA Operations Officer - reflects on his career and remembers his friend and colleague, Dick Welch, the CIA Chief of Station in Athens, Greece who was assassinated in 1975 by the Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17N). Recorded 10 May 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-08-0836 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Enrique ’Ríc’ PradoIn this episode, Enrique 'Ric' Prado - a former senior CIA operations and paramilitary officer - discusses his memoir, "Black Ops: The Life of a CIA Shadow Warrior," which reveals the covert wars that America has fought since the Vietnam era and sheds light on the elite officers who are often the tip of the spear. Recorded 19 April 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-07-2520 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Carol ”Rollie” FlynnIn this episode, Carol "Rollie" Flynn - former Senior CIA operations officer and current President of the Foreign Policy Research Institute - discusses her ground-breaking 30-year career as one of the first women operating abroad as a Clandestine Services Officer and later as Chief of Station. Also covered are the wide variety of career opportunities available at CIA and the traits, interests, languages, lifestyle, experiences, and skills potential intelligence officers should consider before applying. Recorded 22 Mar 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-07-1134 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Andrew HammondIn this episode, Andrew Hammond - former Royal Air Force officer and current Historian and Curator at the International Spy Museum - discusses the Soviet-Afghan War which ran from December 1979 – February 1989 and was a period that produced major shifts in Cold War geopolitics. Recorded 17 Mar 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-06-2037 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Bruce Riedel Part IIIn his second AFIO Now interview, Bruce Riedel, former CIA analyst and current Director of the Brookings Intelligence Project at the Center for Middle East Policy, discusses Jordan and America's enduring friendship. Recorded 3 March 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-06-0634 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Melvin GambleIn this episode, Melvin Gamble, a 40-year career CIA Senior Intelligence Officer, discusses Havana Syndrome - the mysterious set of symptoms experienced by a number US government employees overseas. Mr. Gamble also explains the need - and benefits - of diversity in the intelligence community. Recorded 15 Feb 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-05-2323 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Shane HarrisIn this episode, senior National Security Reporter for The Washington Post Shane Harris discusses his extensive reporting on the Ukraine-Russia War and the unusual role the US Intelligence Community is playing in the current conflict. He also reveals how reporters are selected for posting overseas in dangerous war zones, the training they receive, and the career steps he took on the path to becoming a nationally-recognized and award-winning journalist. Recorded 19 April 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-05-0942 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Margaret CokerIn this episode, prize-winning investigative journalist Margaret Coker discusses her book "The Spymaster of Baghdad: A True Story of Bravery, Family, and Patriotism in the Battle against ISIS." It tells the dramatic yet intimate account of how a covert Iraqi intelligence unit called “the Falcons” came together against all odds to defeat ISIS. Recorded 9 Feb 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-04-2523 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Michael HowardIn this episode, Mike Howard discusses his leadership journey, first as a police officer in Oakland, CA, then as an operations officer with the CIA, and finally as chief of security for the Microsoft Corporation and Bill Gates. He highlights the elements required to develop a successful leadership style and his book, "The Art of Ronin Leadership." Recorded 3 Feb 2022. Interviewer: Ralph Mariani, former CIA Operations Officer. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-04-1147 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James LawlerIn this episode, James Lawler discusses his book "Living Lies: A Novel of the Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program." Lawler, a former CIA operations officer who spent most of his career focused on counterproliferation, weaves a story about espionage, human frailty, and loyalty within the backdrop of Iran's nuclear weapons program. Recorded 26 Jan 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-03-2823 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Douglas OllivantIn this episode, Doug Ollivant, Senior National Security Studies Fellow at New America, discusses the war in Iraq from his perspective first as an Army officer serving in-country and then as Director for Iraq on the National Security Council under the Bush and Obama administrations. Recorded 13 Jan 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-03-1535 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Bryan DensonBryan Denson, author of the 2015 book "The Spy's Son: The True Story of the Highest-Ranking CIA Officer Ever Convicted of Espionage and the Son He Trained to Spy for Russia" tells the riveting story of the Nicholsons—father and son co-conspirators who deceived their country by selling national secrets to Russia. Recorded 10 Jan 2022. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-02-2818 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Toby HarndenIn this episode, journalist and author Toby Harnden discusses his book "First Casualty," the true story of the secret mission of CIA’s Team Alpha, the first Americans to be dropped behind enemy lines in Afghanistan after 9/11. Recorded 6 Dec 2021. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-02-0741 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: John LenczowskiJohn Lenczowski PhD, former NSC Staff Expert and current Chancellor of the Institute of World Politics, discusses Chinese influence operations in the US and how the Chinese expertly use the media, academic institutions, think tanks, businesses, politicians, and Hollywood to steal intellectual property and advance their propaganda operations. Recorded 12 Nov 2021. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-01-2444 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Steve Vogel IISteve Vogel, a veteran journalist who reported for The Washington Post for more than two decades, offers a deep-dive into the double agent George Blake, featured in his 2019 book, "Betrayal in Berlin: The True Story of the Cold War's Most Audacious Espionage Operation." Recorded 10 Nov 2021. Interviewer: Jim Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2022-01-1049 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Douglas LondonIn this episode, former Senior CIA Operations Officer Douglas London discusses his latest book, "The Recruiter: Spying and the Lost Art of American Intelligence." Mr. London reflects on the changes he has seen in the operations side of the Agency -- good and bad -- and provides frank assessments of the missteps and successes of the intelligence community. Recorded 20 Sept 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-12-1341 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Mark MitchellIn this episode, Mark E. Mitchell - Former Director for Counterterrorism on the National Security Council and Former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations/Low-Intensity Conflict - discusses the first ground battle after 9/11 which occurred in Mazār-i-Sharīf, the fourth largest city in Afghanistan. An uprising during the battle of Qala-i-Jangi -- to overthrow the Taliban's Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, which had been harboring al-Qaeda operatives -- resulted in the death of Johnny Micheal Spann, an American paramilitary operations officer in the CIA's Special Activities Division. Spann was the first American killed in combat during th...2021-11-2940 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Nicholas DujmovicIn this episode, Dr. Nicholas Dujmovic - Professor, Author, and former CIA Analyst - discusses his experiences developing an intelligence program at Catholic University and explains his journey to academia and teaching intelligence at the college level in retirement. Recorded 9 Oct 2020. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-11-1532 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: James GoslerIn this episode, former Director of CIA's Clandestine Information Technology Office and one of the nation's foremost experts on cybersecurity, James Gosler, discusses the pervasive and existentially disruptive cyber threats the U.S. faces from adversaries. He describes what is required to warn, educate, prepare for, and possibly mitigate these growing threats. Recorded 16 Jun 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-11-0843 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: A Panel Discussion on Proposed Legislation Affecting Former Intelligence OfficersIn this special episode, AFIO Now assembled a panel of experts to discuss proposed legislation which would place controls on former military and intelligence officers working overseas with foreign governments. Participants include: The Honorable Mike Rogers, former Chairman of HPSCI; Christopher Bing, Cybersecurity Reporter, Reuters who broke story of Project Raven; Stewart Baker, former General Counsel, NSA and AFIO Chairman; and James Hughes, former CIA Operations Officer and AFIO President. Recorded 22 Oct 2021
2021-10-2930 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Marc PolymeropoulosIn this episode, former Senior CIA Operations Officer Marc Polymeropoulos discusses his new book, "Clarity in Crisis," his tours in high risk zones, and the mysterious 'Havana Syndrome' - of which he is one of its victims. Recorded 23 Sep 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-10-2525 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Seth Jones IIIn his second episode, Seth Jones PhD, Director, Transnational Threats Project, CSIS, discusses his new book, "Three Dangerous Men: Russia, China, Iran and the Rise of Irregular Warfare." Jones outlines how conventional warfare—clashes between large military forces—defined twentieth-century power. However, facing dominant US conventional and nuclear capabilities, our country's principal adversaries have adopted a different style of warfare that is eroding America's power. Recorded 10 Sep 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-10-1839 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: David Robarge IIIn his second episode, CIA Historian Dr. David Robarge discusses the complexities of covert action with examples throughout modern U.S. history. Dr. Robarge also mentions the ODNI release of Vietnam Tet Offensive material, which was a multi-agency collaboration between CIA, NSA, DIA and NGA. Recorded 13 May 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-10-111h 15AFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: David McCloskeyIn this AFIO Now episode, former CIA Analyst David McCloskey discusses his novel, "Damascus Station," a spy thriller set against the backdrop of the Syrian civil war. Recorded 14 Sep 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-10-0424 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Shelby Pierson Part IIIn this fascinating part II episode, Shelby Pierson - the Election Threats Executive for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) - discusses the threats to America's elections and the actions taken by the Intelligence Community (IC) to assess, warn, and counter those threats. Mrs. Pierson, who is considered the first "U.S. Election Security Czar," participates in an extended Q&A. Recorded 21 May 2021. Interviewer: James Bruce PhD, AFIO board member and former CIA Senior Analyst. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-09-2840 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Sam Wyman IIIn his second AFIO Now episode, former CIA Operations Officer and Arabist Sam Wyman discusses the "Red Prince" - Ali Hassan Salameh - the chief of operations (code name Abu Hassan) for Black September, the organization responsible for the 1972 Munich massacre and other terror attacks. Recorded 7 May 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-09-2033 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Pete LappIn this episode, retired FBI Special Agent and Senior Advisor for Homeland Security Pete Lapp discusses the case of DIA Intelligence Analyst Ana Belén Montes. Montes was a Cuba expert who was caught spying for Cuban Intelligence. She pled guilty in 2002 and was sentenced to 25-years in federal prison. Recorded 4 May 2021. Interviewer: John Quattrocki, AFIO board member and former FBI Supervisory Special Agent. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-09-061h 08AFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: David WolmanIn this episode, author-journalist David Wolman discusses the fascinating career of American cryptographer, intelligence analyst and NSA executive Juanita Moody. Moody worked for the Signals Intelligence Service (SIS) and NSA from 1943 until 1976 and was responsible for providing intelligence to the White House and Department of Defense during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Her reports directly helped the U.S. avoid war with the Soviet Union. Recorded 05 Apr 2021. Interviewer: Sarah (Sally) Botsai, AFIO vice chair and former senior NSA official. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-08-2344 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Bob Wallace and Keith MeltonBob Wallace, former CIA Deputy Director for the Office of Technical Services and intelligence historian Keith Melton discuss a few of the many unusual and fascinating examples of espionage activities which took place in the city of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania as revealed in their latest guidebook: "Spy Sites of Philadelphia." Recorded 18 Mar 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-08-1638 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Jason FagoneIn this episode, author-journalist Jason Fagone discusses the relatively unknown cryptographer Elizebeth Friedman. Fagone illuminates Friedman's remarkable achievements in codebreaking, her marriage to NSA "founder" William Friedman, her work at Riverbank Labs, and many other hidden aspects of her outstanding "in the shadows" life assisting the nation. Recorded 16 Mar 2021. Interviewer: Deborah Bonanni, AFIO board member and former NSA Chief of Staff. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-08-0236 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Shelby Pierson Part IIn this timely episode, Shelby Pierson - the Election Threats Executive for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) - discusses the threats to America's elections and the actions taken by the Intelligence Community (IC) to assess, warn, and counter those threats. Mrs. Pierson, who is considered the first "U.S. Election Security Czar," also highlights the IC's efforts to bolster public confidence in fair elections and support the peaceful transfer of power. Recorded 15 Oct 2020. Interviewer: James Bruce PhD, AFIO board member and former CIA Senior Analyst. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer. 2021-07-2645 minAFIO PodcastAFIO Now Presents: Norman RouleFormer CIA Division Chief and National Intelligence Manager for ODNI, Norman Roule discusses the state of Iran today and how current and future administrations need to approach the regime. Recorded 11 Mar 2021. Host: James Hughes, AFIO President and former CIA Operations Officer.
2021-07-1242 min