Shows
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThere Is No Credentials MeetingInstead of beginning the relationship with a prospective client by presenting a deck on why your agency is so amazing and why you should be invited to pitch, Blair encourages us to have the “Probative Conversation” from his Four Conversations sales model. LINKS "There Is No Credentials Meeting" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise" 2Bobs episode The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise book by Blair Enns2025-06-1830 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsAlways Be AnchoringBlair sees high price anchors everywhere—from buying a suit to ordering a burger. So what factors should creative firms keep in mind as they use anchoring in selling their service options? And when is the best time to present the anchor option within the sales conversation? Links “Anchor High” by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com2025-05-2130 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Power of a MetaphorThe more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise. LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com2025-04-2326 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsWho Should Set Prices?As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links “Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?” written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com2025-02-2641 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsDon't Bother Eating Your VeggiesIn Blair's experience, the most common reason a lead generation plan doesn’t get executed is it doesn’t recognize and leverage the strengths or motivations of the individuals executing. LINKS "The Best Lead Generation Plan" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode2025-01-1524 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsAssume an Advantaged PlayerBlair shares how to determine whether or not we are the advantaged player the “polite battle for control” within the game of sales, and how we can get the odds of winning the sale to be more in our favor. Links “Assume an Advantaged Player” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com2024-11-0622 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling ExpertiseDavid interviews Blair about his new book, which lays out his proven framework B2B service providers can use to increase closing ratios and average proposal values. Links Order The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise by Blair Enns2024-10-2330 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns200th Episode SpecialBlair and David reminisce about their podcasting journey since Blair first pitched the 2Bobs idea to David back in 2016, sharing what they've learned along the way, and what they might like to try with the podcast in the future.2024-10-0930 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsHow to Avoid Commodifying Your OfferingBlair sees four common behaviors when business owners are looking to get deals moving in times of economic decline, stagnation, or uncertainty that end up doing long term harm to their positioning and pricing. LINKS "Four Ways to Commodify Your Offering" by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com "Phase Your Client Engagements" 2Bobs episode2024-09-1129 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsAre You Fishing in the Right Pond?Given these uncertain economic times we are in right now, Blair is asking if some creative firms might need to rethink the market they serve, looking at whether their positioning might be too broad, too narrow, or just wrong. LINKS "The Target Is Not the Market" by Blair Enns on winwithoutpitching.com2024-07-3132 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsCreating a Premium Pricing CulturePricing is a prison cell of our own making. And it’s cultural. Blair has come up with a series of prompts as a creative exercise to help us all move into a realm of higher pricing. Links “Creating a Culture of Premium Pricing” by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com “Have we Hit Peak Strategy?” “Be the Client You Want to See in the World”2024-07-0331 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsHave We Hit Peak Strategy?Blair thinks too many design firms and other service providers are trying too hard to raise prices by presenting themselves as more “strategic.” Both he and David see these agencies losing more and more work to competitors moving to off-shore teams and AI centered services. Links Blair’s “What Is Strategy?” episode of the Ditching Hourly podcast with Jonathan Stark2024-06-0524 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsTurning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales TeamBlair has five steps creative agency leaders can take to turn their account managers, project managers, developers, engineers, and advisors into a source of instant scale to their sales efforts. LINKS “Turning Your Delivery Team Into a Sales Team” article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com2024-05-0830 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Dichotomy of the Expert SalespersonAs Blair is finishing his new book that drops later this year, he comes to the realization that pretty much everything he does comes down to the fundamental issue that experts think they need to show up as a different person during the sale: pitching, persuading, and convincing instead of as the leader their prospective clients need them to be. LINKS "The Dichotomy of the Expert Salesperson" article by Blair Enns at WinWithoutPitching.com "Ditch the (Sales) Script"2024-03-1323 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsAttending the WayBlair recognizes how a Confucius quote is really bad business advice, but is still moved by how a highly principled creative firm in New Zealand continues to thrive by prioritizing their creative practices and client fit over new business strategy. LINKS "Attending the Way" article by Blair on WinWithoutPitching.com AltGroup.net2024-02-1421 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsConstrained by Artificial BoundariesBlair’s latest obsession is bounded rationality, in which he sees too many creative firms failing to make “rational” decisions because they choose to bind their businesses with outdated and overly-constraining ideals like the 80/20 principle. Links “The Great Convergence is Upon Us” by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching Award-winning “Unapologetically Human” ad campaign by Kruger and BHLA Productize: The Ultimate Guide to Turning Professional Services to Scalable Products by Eisha Tierney Armstrong2023-12-0624 min
20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThis is Unsustainable w/ Caroline JohnsonThe Business Model Company cofounder Caroline Johnson is 20%’s first return guest and in this episode Caroline, Blair and Leah pick up where they left off in their last conversation on business model innovation among agencies. This time they view it from the client’s perspective, exploring why agency innovation is vital for clients and for the future of marketing services itself. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin The Business Model Company Caroline’s Linked...2023-11-1548 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Death Throes of the PitchBlair weighs in on this year's Forrester report, which shows the ridiculous amount of money agencies have been wasting on pitches. LINKS "Are These the Last Days of the Pitch?" by Blair Enns for Win Without Pitching "A New Forrester Report Urges Brands and Agencies to 'Ditch the Pitch'" by Olivia Morley for AdWeek published on 4 A's 2023-11-0828 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastMarketing Is an Investment w/ Brett ColbertBrett Colbert is known for pulling no punches. In this episode he brings his direct and provocative point of view—from both sides of the procurement table—to bear on the state of marketing procurement today. Nobody in the marketing/procurement/agency triumvirate gets off easy in this episode. Grab some popcorn and settle in. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin Brett’s company: Culture key Brett’s Linkedin 2023-11-0145 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastOn Creative Effectiveness w/ George TannenbaumIn this episode we up the creative content by talking to veteran creative director George Tannenbaum about the changing nature of the advertising industry, the deification of data and why he thinks procurement deserves to win in their negotiating battles with agencies. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin George’s blog: Ad Aged GeorgeCo George’s work site George’s Linkedin Rory Sutherland’s book: Alchemy Blair's...2023-10-1832 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Conflicting Ethics of Selling and NegotiatingBlair identifies the differences between the ethics of selling expertise and the three schools of bargaining ethics, and what happens when we don’t adapt our bargaining approach to match our opponents in the game of negotiation. Links “The Conflicting Ethics of Selling & Negotiating” article by Blair Enns on WinWithoutPitching.com2023-10-1122 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Path to Great Work w/ Beverley Hammond and Susan Irving20% welcomes its first client/agency team in the form of Kruger Products CMO Susan Irving and Broken Heart Love Affair co-founder Beverley Hammond. Together they discuss the trust and risk required to get to Kruger’s needle-moving and award winning campaign Unapologetically Human. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin Broken Heart Love Affair Beverley's Linkedin Kruger Products Susan’s Linkedin Unapologetically Human 2023-10-0543 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastAgency Model Innovation w/ Caroline JohnsonThe Business Model Company cofounder Caroline Johnson joins the pod to discuss how agencies are evolving away from legacy business models to a variety of new models that drive better commercial success for the agency and greater value creation for clients. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin The Business Model Company Caroline’s Linkedin Madison Avenue Makeover Forrester’s “Ditch The Pitch” Research Report 2023-09-2048 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastTuning Up the Client-Agency Relationship w/ David MeikleConsultant David Meikle joins the pod to discuss—and listen to Blair and Leah rave about—his new book Tuning Up: Improving Performance and Reducing Stress in Advertising and Marketing.” Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin David's website David’s Linkedin David’s Twitter Tuning Up Website Tuning Up Diagnostic Tuning Up e-book Tuning Up Hardcover David’s first book: How to Buy a Gorill2023-09-0647 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastJust Say No w/ Niki McMorroughNiki McMorrough has seen the client-agency relationship from both sides of the table and that perspective has left her convinced that no one wins in a pitch. She joins Blair and Leah to discuss her conversion from pitch advocate to pitch abstinence. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin Niki’s website Niki’s Linkedin The Drum Network The Drum Open Mic The Drum’s Recommended Agencies 2023-08-2344 min20% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast2Bobs: The Win Without Pitching Manifesto—A 10 Year RetrospectiveBlair and Leah are concluding their brief summer hiatus, back in the studio this week, preparing to bring you a brand new interview in two weeks time. Until then, Blair has shamelessly selected another episode of his other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship, which he cohosts with David C. Baker. In this episode from 2021, David interviews Blair about his Amazon #1 best-selling book, The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, ten years after its launch. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching Leah's Linkedin The IC...2023-08-0928 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastMadison Avenue Makeover w/ Michael FarmerMadison Avenue Manslaughter author, agency advisor and former BCG and Bain consultant Michael Farmer joins the pod to discuss his brand new book, Madison Avenue Makeover: The Transformation of HUGE and the Redefinition of the Ad Agency Business. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching Leah's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin The ICA Michael's Linkedin Farmer & Company Madison Avenue Makeover Madison Avenue Manslaughter The Structure of Scientific Revolutions 2023-07-261h 0120% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast2Bobs: Innoficiency in Your AgencyWhile Blair and Leah take a brief summer hiatus, we're delighted to bring you an episode of Blair's other podcast, 2Bobs: Conversations on the Art of Creative Entrepreneurship. In this episode, Blair and his co-host David C. Baker talk about Blair's Innoficiency Principle as it applies to running an agency. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA David C. Baker 2Bobs The Innoficiency Problem 2023-07-1239 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Benchmark Problem w/ Jason CammorataLeah has a bee in her bonnet over how agency benchmark data is used by clients and even some agency associations. Jason Cammorata joins the pod to steelman both sides of the argument. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Jason's Linkedin The End of Average 2023-06-2829 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Day Everything Changed in CPG w/ Christy LeborFormer big brand marketer Christy Lebor joins the pod to describe what she sees as the pivotal moment when CPG companies shifted from innovation-seeking to efficiency-seeking. She also talks about the folly of zero-based budgeting and why agencies will never be strategic partners to their brand manager clients. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Christy's Linkedin Smashbrand 2023-06-1449 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastAligning the Incentives w/ Stuart Dunk Consultant and former Nike procurement manager Stuart Dunk joins Blair and Leah to talk about his vision for how the marketing procurement function should evolve, how agencies should push back on onerous demands, the surprise highlight of a marketing procurement professional’s week and much more. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Stuart's Linkedin Stuart's Twitter Don't Forget To Look Project Spring report Why We Suck at Negotiating 2023-05-3143 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Hidden Cost of Transactional Capitalism w/ Rory Sutherland Rory Sutherland, Ogilvy UK Vice Chair and best-selling author of Alchemy, joins the pod to discuss the costs borne by marketer and agency in the shift away from relational capitalism, toward measurement and efficiency. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Rory's Linkedin Rory's Twitter Ogilvy Alchemy NudgeStock MIPTV Alchemy of Effectiveness 2023-05-1753 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Marketing Procurement Academy w/ Magid SouhamiMarketing procurement podcast streams cross when OG Magid Souhami joins Blair and Leah to discuss all things marketing procurement, including the launch of his new training platform. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA The Marketing Procurement Academy The OG Marketing Procurement Podcast Magid's Linkedin Compliant Global Extinction or Revolution of Marketing Procurement? 2023-05-0348 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastLet's Play Fair w/ J. Francisco EscobarConsultant and procurement veteran J. Francisco Escobar joins the pod to discuss revenue neutrality, the deleterious effects of protracted payment terms and his taxonomy of the various types of procurement professionals. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Francisco's Linkedin jfeintl Expert tips for value-based procurement in marketing Getting More - Stuart Diamond Never Split The Difference - Chris Voss The Unsold Mindset - Colin Coggins, Garrett...2023-04-1938 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastBetter Relationships = Better Outcomes w/ Kim WalkerAprais founder Kim Walker joins the pod to discuss their new research findings that proves what we all know: better client/agency relationships lead to better work—and results. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Kim's Linkedin Aprais' Linkedin Aprais' Website Happiness - a new business imperative The Challenger Sale Aprais Effectiveness Report 2023-04-0547 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe End of The Billable Hour w/ Tim WilliamsAgency pricing consultant Tim Williams discusses the trend he sees of agencies moving away from selling inputs (time), toward a greater focus on outputs and outcome-based pricing models. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin Leah's Linkedin The ICA Ignition Consulting Group Tim's Linkedin Tim's Twitter Time's Up! - Ron Baker 2023-03-2242 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastCan Agencies Be Consultants? w/ Leo RaymanLeo Rayman went from CEO of agency Grey in London to the first CEO of Grey Consulting. In this far reaching conversation with Blair and Leah, Leo talks about the differences in impact and pricing power that separates these two business types, while also hitting on the similarities that tend to go unnoticed. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin The ICA The green growth accelerator, EdenLab Leo's Linkedin 2023-03-0843 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Client Bill of Rights w/ Jillian GibbsAs the client, you have the right to receive unbiased recommendations; you have the right to ask questions; you have the right to transparency on fees. Jillian Gibbs of APR joins 20% to lay bare her client bill of rights and much more. Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin The ICA Jillian's Linkedin Advertising Production Resources APR's Linkedin 2023-02-2241 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastAgency Ownership Models Are Everything w/ Tom LewisTom Lewis joins the podcast to talk about Adland, a sector he sees as existing in a state of managed decline. Tom attributes this decline to a failure in agency ownership models and offers the advice: “get out as quickly as you can.” Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin Win Without Pitching The ICA's Linkedin The ICA Tom's Linkedin Tom's Twitter You Don't Really Partner With Your Clients The Institute of Practitioners in Advertising Effie Canada 2022 Show Notes 2023-02-0849 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Chaos Culture of Agencies w/ Jack SkeelsAgency Agile founder Jack Skeels drops by the pod to talk about agency culture, agency searches and his time as a consultant working to find procurement efficiencies for the US government. Win Without Pitching Blair's Twitter Blair's Linkedin The ICA's Linkedin The ICA Agency Agile Agency Agile's Linkedin Jack's Linkedin Your Client Problems Start With You Averting the Coming Tragedy in Agency Procurement World’s Worst RFP This Consultancy Redefined the RFP Process 2023-01-2544 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastBe Your Agency's Favorite Client w/ Kathryn FitzwilliamMarketing industry veteran Kathryn Fitzwilliam joins the podcast to advocate for better agency/client relationships, and makes the case for marketers to strive to be their agency’s favorite client. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies Kathryn Fitzwilliam https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-fitzwilliam http://kfitzwilliamconsulting.ca/ https://aprais.com/ Qu...2023-01-1149 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastPitch-Free for 5 Years w/ Julie CohenJulie Cohen, Founder and CEO of Across The Pond, joins Blair and Leah to discuss the negative impacts of pitching. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies Julie Cohenhttps://acrossthepond.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/across-the-pond/ Don’t Pitch Your Mental Health https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/dont-pitch-your-mental-health-jim-de-zoete/ 2022-12-2838 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastProcurement Are People Too w/ Mike SuttonBlair and Leah are joined by Mike Sutton, President of Zulu Alpha Kilo an award-winning independent agency famous for their viral videos mocking spec creative and RFP-driven selection processes. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ Mike Suttonwww.zulualphakilo.com https://www.linkedin.com/c...2022-12-1433 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastGrownup Conversations w/ Mike LanderPiscari’s Mike Lander models the conversations agencies and procurement should be having but rarely do. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ Mike Lander https://piscari.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikelander/ Hear more from Mike on his podcast “It’s a Good S...2022-11-3044 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastMy 1st Negotiation with Procurement w/ Kathie JonesKathie Jones joins the podcast to discuss lessons learned from selling to procurement years ago up to running procurement today. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ Kathie Jones https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathieconway148/ https://khoros.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/khoros/2022-11-1648 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Truth About RFPs w/ Enrique CorderoShould you participate in that RFP? Is that RFP really an RFI in disguise? Enrique Cordero joins the podcast to answer those questions and much more. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ Enrique Cordero https://www.linkedin.com/in/enriquecordero/2022-11-0242 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Transformed Procurement Professional w/ Mary Ann BrennanMary Ann Brennan joins Blair and Leah to discuss the transformed procurement professional and the journey from cost saver to value creator. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ Mary Ann Brennan https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryabrennan/ ProcureCon Marketing https://procurecondm.wbresearch...2022-10-1945 min20% - The Marketing Procurement Podcast8 Things Every Agency Says w/ John GleasonHosts Leah Power and Blair Enns welcome their first guest to the podcast, John Gleason. John shares his views on the procurement/agency relationship and lays out the same 8 claims almost every agency makes. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ John Gleason https://www.linkedin.com/in...2022-10-0654 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastThe Innoficiency ProblemBlair puts forward his Innoficiency Principle—the idea that innovation and efficiency are mutually opposable goals—and discusses why the “Marketing Procurement Problem” can be explained by this principle. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/ The Innoficiency Problem https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-innoficiency-problem/ Buying Less for L...2022-10-0634 min20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastWelcome to 20% - The Marketing Procurement PodcastHosts Blair Enns and Leah Power discuss the “Marketing Procurement Problem” and lay out their hopes and intentions for the conversations to follow. Note: The ICA changed its name to the Institute of Canadian Agencies after the recording of this episode. Blair Enns https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/ https://twitter.com/blairenns https://ca.linkedin.com/in/blairenns Leah Power https://theica.ca/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/institute-of-canadian-agencies https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-power-she-her-3486998/2022-10-0524 min
Ditching HourlyBlair Enns - Productized ServicesThe wonderful Blair Enns of Win Without Pitching returned to Ditching Hourly to discuss the pros and cons of productized services. Blair is generally against them and I am generally for them. Since we tend to agree on most things business-related, I wanted to have him back on the show to get to the bottom of our disconnect on this particular point. During the course of our hour-long chat, we uncovered lots of nuance and eventually understood both sides of the argument for or against. TL;DR:Whether or not offering...2021-11-161h 05Ditching HourlyBlair Enns - What Is Strategy?The lovely and talented Blair Enns joins me to explore the question: WHAT IS STRATEGY?BLAIR'S LINKSWin Without PitchingBlair's TwitterINTERACTIVE TRANSCRIPThttps://www.rev.com/transcript-editor/shared/m4jr6P_aQ9TmpdBKT3aCBIwyEF8RQOW6iVR4dv8w_tR26FKubH_uHjRLazDIaBMaGii5Y7IGnLKWWyV6XLOhdZXkG_E?loadFrom=SharedLinkTEXT TRANSCRIPTJonathan (00:00): Hello and welcome to ditching hourly. I'm Jonathan Stark. And today I am joined by a very special guest Blair ends. Blair, welcome back to the show. Thank you...2021-02-0956 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsBig Clients Vs Small ClientsBlair shares the tradeoffs creative firms have to deal with when pursuing firms of a particular size, and David gets Blair riled up again about procurement.2020-11-1836 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsObjections to SpecializationIn part two of their specialization conversation, David and Blair address six arguments they have heard from certain clients who toyed with the idea of broader positioning for their firms.2020-09-0930 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsDo Generalists Really Triumph Over Specialists?David and Blair have experienced a backlash against experts, expertise, and specialization thanks to David Epstein's book, and they disagree on whether or not it's worth reading.2020-08-2624 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead GenerationBlair and David discuss three tiers of inbound and outbound marketing that firms should be using for new business development.2020-08-1236 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Journey From Generalist to SpecialistDavid and Blair address a listener request to go over the challenges that principals often go through once they decide to reposition their firm.2020-07-2934 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsHow and When to Talk About Your FirmBlair wonders if he's made an error in his efforts to prevent agencies from going into presentation mode during the sales process.2020-07-1526 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsFour Regrets You're About to HaveBlair predicts when we are through the COVID-19 pandemic and business is approaching normal (whatever that means), agency principals will look back with some regrets about the things they did not do, rather than the things they did. LINKS "Four Regrets You’re About to Have" by Blair Enns "Play the Game of Constraints" by Blair Enns2020-07-0128 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsWhen to Shut Up and Listen and When to Speak UpBlair and David, as two white business leaders, try talking about the traumatic and emotional yet very necessary changes happening now to end systemic racism. As they listen and allow space for the voices of diversity that need to be heard, they also struggle with when to speak up as examples, owning up to their mistakes which will hopefully help lead the way for real change. LINKS “How I’m Trying to Process Things Right Now” by David C. Baker “Speech and Systems” - episode 186 of Exponent podcast A Statement f...2020-06-1726 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Hate Sandwich You're About to EatBlair gets David to share a part of his upcoming book about how all client relationships have a cycle of love-hate-love that we have to be prepared for and push through.2020-05-2032 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsWill You Be My FriendDavid expects to get in trouble discussing Blair's topic about the role of friendship in business—between sales people and prospects, account people and clients, and principals and employees.2020-05-0637 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsChanges in the Agency Client LandscapeDavid and Blair try to predict the future about what principals of creative firms can expect in their relationships with clients as the COVID-19 pandemic continues to impact business.2020-04-2229 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsBusiness As Unusual - Managing in a PandemicBlair and David address five common questions they have heard from creative entrepreneurs as they both have been helping firms navigate the economic changes being caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.2020-04-0830 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Power of OptionsDavid asks Blair to clarify his advice on offering proposal options and anchoring. Is it about more than just scope and price? LINKS Implementing Value Pricing: A Radical Business Model for Professional Firms by Ronald Baker The Strategy and Tactics of Pricing: A Guide to Growing More Profitably by Thomas T. Nagle and Georg Müller Pricing with Confidence: 10 Ways to Stop Leaving Money on the Table by Reed Holden and Mark Burton Negotiating with Backbone: Eight Sales Strategies to Defend Your Price and Value by Reed Ho...2020-03-1135 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsHow Digital Firms Are DifferentBlair and David record a live episode at the Orpheum Theater in New Orleans for Bureau of Digital’s Owner Summit. Thank you to Carl Smith and Lori Averitt at Bureau of Digital for hosting the live recording at the Owner Summit on February 7, 2020 in New Orleans. And thank you to the amazing staff at the Orpheum Theater for helping us with the production and staging!2020-02-2635 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Impact of Agile in the Real WorldDavid does all the heavy lifting for Blair in his recent article so they can finally discuss the overlap between Agile as a management method and pricing policy. LINKS “Pros and Cons of Agile…in the Real World” by David C. Baker 2Bobs episode 78: “Phase Your Client Engagements” Manifesto for Agile Software Development “Agile is Dead (Long Live Agility)” by Dave Thomas 2020-02-1236 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsPhase Your Client EngagementsBlair wants firms to get paid to write their proposals, which is the first of his four phases of client engagement. LINKS “Different Pricing Models” - 2Bobs episode 61 “A Beginner’s Guide to Negotiating” - 2Bobs episode 53 “Alternative Forms of Reassurance” - 2Bobs episode 46 Transcript2020-01-2938 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsUnderstanding Account PeopleDavid keeps encountering clients who don’t appreciate how their account people actually contribute to their overall business, and Blair totally identifies with the traits that David describes. 2Bobs episode 44: “The Best Ways to Disrespect Account People” WHAT ACCOUNT PEOPLE DO, IN BROAD STROKES: Pull necessary data from the client, even when it’s tough to get their cooperation. Sell recommendations back to them that are in their best interest. Lead the client. (Interesting fact: “strategy” is latin for “general” in army who leads.) Protect margins. Grow the account. Send the client to hell...2020-01-1531 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsWhat Leverage Do You Have With Client Contracts and MSAs?Blair and David share their frustrations around some contracts that they have been asked to sign, making it clear why they are not attorneys. This episode does not contain legal advice. Get a lawyer for that: Sharon Toerek Candice Kersh Jeffrey Dermer Michael Lasky2020-01-0132 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsWhen You Put Someone Else In Charge of Your FirmDavid keeps seeing principals who get someone else to run their firm, which is not a good idea. Then he gets Blair's thoughts on why he thinks it happens. Links David C. Baker Seminar Win Without Pitching Workshops with Blair Enns Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You by John Warrillow Entrepreneurial Operating System Traction Library The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William Thorndike2019-12-1830 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsProductized Vs Customized Services and Monthly Recurring RevenueDavid and Blair lay out some of the reasons why they think, in most cases, agencies pursuing recurring revenue models are making a mistake. Links “Why Monthly Recurring Revenue (MRR) Arrangements May Not Be Ideal” by David C. Baker The End of Average: How We Succeed in a World That Values Sameness by Todd Rose Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour by Blair Enns The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up: The Japanese Art of Decluttering and Organizing by Marie Kondō “Unbundling the Corp...2019-12-0435 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsWhich RFPs Should You Respond To?David brings up one of Blair's favorite topics: how they keep themselves and their clients from being trapped by requests for proposal. LINKS 2Bobs episode 70, “The Only New Business Indicator That Matters”2019-11-2030 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsA Podcast After-Action Review Blair and David share what they have learned as they have recorded 2Bobs podcast episodes for almost 4 years - what has worked well, what has been challenging, and what they would recommend to those agency principals who might be considering their own podcast. LINKS The Soul of Enterprise Episode 15: “The Best Learning Method Ever Devised: After Action Reviews” with Ron Baker and Ed Kless Build a Better Agency with Drew McClellan EconTalk with Russell Roberts Marcus dePaula, podcast producer and consultant BLAIR'S...2019-11-0631 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsCommon Traits of SuccessBlair and David consider the hundreds of firms they have each worked with over the years to identify the characteristics of highest performing firms and what they have seen agency principals do to succeed.2019-10-2325 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Only New Business Indicator That MattersBlair shares some new data (at the time he and David recorded this discussion in January of 2016) that points to the one variable that can predict the likelihood of a prospect hiring your firm.2019-10-0928 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsTaking the Team SeriouslyDavid wants to know if Blair thinks it's harder for creative firms to find great prospective clients, or great employees, as they unpack how to attract the right candidates using a “lead generation” plan. Ideas for “Lead Generation” of candidates: Social media presence Guest teach a single class at a known school that typically turns out a best student every semester Offer your facility as a meeting place for trade/association meetings Put a rotating art gallery with an open house when the display rotates Quarterly webinar for prospective employees on topics they would be fascin...2019-09-2534 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsTop Ten New Business Development MythsBlair is in the spotlight discussing some bad practices driven by assumptions he's seen his clients make over the past couple decades, a few of which are new to David. 10. Branding and Full Service Advertising are Specializations 9. The More You Have to Sell the More Likely a Sale 8. An Increase in Meetings Leads to an Increase in Sales 7. The Written Proposal is a Necessary Step in the Sales Process 6. Build Personal Relationships to Build Sales 5. Presentation Skills Training Leads to Improved Business Development Success 4. Chemistry...2019-09-1134 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsDifferent Pricing ModelsBlair is struck by how creative businesses have trouble applying their creativity to their revenue models, so he and David discuss some of the best ways firms can get paid. LINKS Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company's Future - and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo The Membership Economy: Find Your Super Users, Master the Forever Transaction, and Build Recurring Revenue by Robbie Kellman Baxter The Automatic Customer: Creating a Subscription Business in Any Industry by John Warrillow 2Bobs Episode 31: “Mastering the Val...2019-06-0534 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsA Beginner's Guide to NegotiatingDavid gets into Blair's head to get his 10 basic negotiating tips that he has worked with clients on over the years. LINKS “10 Negotiating Tips” (with 5 bonus tips) “Selling in One Lesson,” 2Bobs episode 49 Buying Less for Less: How to avoid the Marketing Procurement dilemma, by Gerry Preece Negotiating with Backbone: Eight Sales Strategies to Defend Your Price and Value, by Reed K. Holden TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, today we are going to talk about 10 really interesting ways you can get your spouse to go...2019-02-1335 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsDebriefing After a New Business CallDavid asks Blair about using "after action reviews" following sales calls, and the two key questions that should be asked as a part of that debriefing process. LINKS Episode #15 - The Best Learning Method Ever Devised: After Action Reviews, from The Soul of Enterprise Podcast with Ron Baker and Ed Kless TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, today we are going to talk about debriefing after a new business call. Not after just a business call, but a new business call, right? So how did this topic come to your mind? What go...2019-01-1630 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsShoot - Now What Do We Do?Blair asks David to make some predictions about the new year, and then they discuss some ways that businesses can prepare for and react to (God forbid) an economic downturn. TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, predict the future. Coming year, the year ahead ... It doesn't matter when people are listening to this or when we've recorded it, but in the year ahead is it going to be a year of abundance or is it batten the hatches, we've got trouble? DAVID C. BAKER: I think it'll probably be right in the middle. I...2019-01-0234 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsSelling in One LessonBlair describes to David how he was able to distill his Win Without Pitching approach into a simple formula: P=db/D Power = desirability / Desire Links Economics in One Lesson: The Shortest and Surest Way to Understand Basic Economics by Henry Hazlitt Economics in One Lesson Wikipedia page Henry Hazlitt Wikipedia page The Win Without Pitching Manifesto by Blair Enns Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, We are going to talk about selling in one lesson. BLAIR ENNS: I know why you're laughin...2018-12-1934 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Risk EpisodeAfter touching on the topic of risk in many other episodes of this podcast, David and Blair finally take a full episode to discuss at length the role of risk in entrepreneurship. LINKS "Confessions of a Recovering Consultant" by Blair Enns Hyman P. Minsky Archive Twitter exchange with Jonathan Stark on risk Strategic Coach program with Dan Sullivan "A Mission With No Exit" by Blair Enns Peter Drucker TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, what's the riskiest thing you've ever done? DAVI...2018-12-0531 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsOpen Book ManagementBlair gets David to admit that he was kind of wrong about open book management being just a fad when he originally wrote about it almost two decades ago, and David offers ways that it can actually benefit both employees and clients when used appropriately. Links Financial Management of a Marketing Firm by David C. Baker TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, today we're going to talk about open book management. How does that sound to you? DAVID C. BAKER: Sounds like you think you're in charge. Why don't you say, "Can...2018-11-2124 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsAlternative Forms of ReassuranceBlair and David analyze and then look beyond the requests for reassurance potential clients make during the late stage of a sale to address their underlying motivations. LINKS “Transtheoretical Model” (Prochaska & DiClemente, 1983; Prochaska, DiClemente, & Norcross, 1992) TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, today I want to ask you about something that I've heard you talk about for many years and it's this notion of alternative forms of reassurance. BLAIR ENNS: Yeah. DAVID: We used to do this event together and we did it for like 10 years running. BLAIR: Yo...2018-11-0729 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsSeven Strategies to Grow AccountsDavid disagrees with Blair (sort of) on his model for growing existing accounts in the post-AOR era, and then offers his list of 6 ideas on the topic. Links The Peter principle The Challenger Sale by Matthew Dixon and Brent Adamson Tony Mikes Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Today Blair, we are coming to you live from the ReCourses Woodworking Shop, where so far I have done no woodworking, but a whole lot of podcast recording. Maybe I need to take my saws up to my office or something, but...2018-10-2431 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Best Ways to Disrespect Account PeopleBlair remembers what it was like when he was an account person himself, and David shares five ways firms can treat their account people better. LINKS “How to Drive Your Employees Bat Sh*t Crazy” 2Bobs episode TRANSCRIPT BLAIR ENNS: David, we're talking today about how to disrespect people. This is your topic idea. DAVID C. BAKER: Yeah, I get so many requests from people that want help with this, and they naturally ask me. Right? BLAIR: Yeah. Of course they do. DAVID: "Who'd be really an...2018-10-1029 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe Seven Masteries of the RainmakerBlair offers seven mindsets that any seller of expertise needs to master so that they can behave like the expert in the sales cycle. Links "The Jedi Mindset" by Blair Enns McClelland's Human Motivation Theory, also known as Three Needs Theory, Acquired Needs Theory, Motivational Needs Theory, and Learned Needs Theory Transcript DAVID C. BAKER: Good morning, Blair. You are in London. I'm in Nashville. BLAIR ENNS: Yeah, it's my afternoon, and it's your seven AM. DAVID: And don't tell me you've gotten a lot mo...2018-09-2633 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsIf I Were Starting OverLINKS "The Great Convergence Is Upon Us" by Blair Enns "CRM: The Train Coming At You" by Blair Enns AltGroup.net website "Eight Gauges on Your Agency Dashboard" by David C. Baker The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William Thorndike "Rising From the Ashes: A New Agency Model" by Blair Enns TRANSCRIPTION DAVID C. BAKER: Blair today we're going to start over. Both you and I are going to start over. We're going to pretend to start over an...2018-09-1234 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsThe X-FactorBlair gives David some homework to identify patterns in the principals of creative practices who are successful and have that "je ne sais quoi." LINKS 2Bobs Episode 28 - "Positioning Cheats" Start With Why by Simon Sinek "Top 10 Podcasts Agency Owners Listen To" by Daniel de la Cruz Crucial Conversations - Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair today, we are going to catch up with the rest of the world. I ca...2018-08-2932 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsStarting...Existing...ThrivingBlair interviews David on what each of the three levels of success in running a creative firm looks like. Links 2Bobs Episode 39 - "Replacing Presentations With Conversations" The Win Without Pitching Manifesto, by Blair Enns The Business of Expertise: How Entrepreneurial Experts Convert Insight to Impact + Wealth, by David C. Baker Built to Sell: Creating a Business That Can Thrive Without You,by John Warrillow Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour, by Blair Enns 2Bobs Episode 31 - "Mastering the Value Conversation"...2018-08-1534 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsReplacing Presentations With ConversationsDavid re-reads the 2nd chapter of Blair’s first book, leading to a discussion about how sales people have to choose between either presenting to clients or being present to them. TRANSCRIPT DAVID C. BAKER: Blair, we are going to talk today about replacing presentations with conversations. BLAIR ENNS: The second proclamation. DAVID: Yeah, it's actually the second chapter in your book, which I'm holding right now in my grimy little hands. The book, it's black with red, looks like foil to make it look expensive, so you could charge an extra c...2018-08-0128 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsHacking Heuristics Blair leads a discussion on how clients tend to take mental shortcuts in making business decisions, and how we can nudge clients without manipulating them to make a decision that is in their best interest. Links Rory Sutherland Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion and Pre-Suasion: A Revolutionary Way to Influence and Persuade by Robert Cialdini Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein "The Dark Arts of Leveraging Cognitive Biases" by Blair Enns Thinking, Fast and Slow by...2018-07-0440 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsCollaborating with CompetitorsDavid and Blair compare each other's competitiveness, and then offer some specific ways principals can actually collaborate with their competitors as a part of building beneficial business relationships. TRANSCRIPT BLAIR: David, today we're going to talk about how to crush your competition, is that right? DAVID: Instantly I got very excited about the concept, that's really not what we're going to talk about, but I love that idea. Oh my God, I'm just too competitive, but that's actually the opposite of what we're going to talk about I think, unless you w...2018-06-2027 min
Ditching HourlyPricing Creativity with special guest Blair EnnsBlair Enns delivers an impromptu master class on the strategies and tactics of value pricing creative work.Blair's BioBlair Enns is a 25-year veteran of the business side of the creative professions. In 2002, he launched Win Without Pitching, which has worked with thousands of creative professionals in numerous countries through direct engagements, seminars, workshops & webcasts. Blair is the author of "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" and the forthcoming "Pricing Creativity: A Guide to Profit Beyond the Billable Hour"LinksPricing CreativityWin Without Pitching2Bobs PodcastBlair on TwitterBlair on LinkedInImplementing Value Pricing...2017-12-1953 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsValuing and Selling Your FirmBlair and David discuss why, when, and how principals sell their firms, and Blair reveals he is skeptical about selling his own firm.2017-12-1334 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsMea CulpaDavid offers to help Blair remember all the times he's been wrong over the past couple decades. Then Blair says he'll be happy to reveal all of the places he's wrong now but doesn't even know it yet.2017-11-0131 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsSeven Words You Can't Say in Business DevelopmentDavid and Blair discuss a list of words Blair came up with that you should avoid to keep you out of trouble and in control of the buy-sell relationship.2017-09-2032 min
2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair EnnsAn Introduction to Blair EnnsDavid asks Blair to describe his work and his passion for the creative entrepreneurial community, and they discuss how where he lives has such a huge impact on what he does.2017-08-2318 min