Shows
At Last She Said ItEpisode 248 (Bonus): Revisiting Christ Chose WomenLatter-day Saints are often told that the contemporary Church is built on the same model Jesus Christ used to establish His church. In this bonus re-release, Cynthia and Susan offer a few thoughts on that idea, and also discuss the pattern they see: the Bible doesn't only show Jesus choosing women in the New Testament—beginning with Eve, women are cast in pivotal roles from the very start. The original episode explores how Jesus's inclusion of women was radical within its cultural context. Yet for most of history, his namesake religion has been marked by near-total domination of the patriarchy. Wh...
2025-12-161h 16
At Last She Said ItEpisode 242: Are You There God? It's Us, Susan and Cynthia | Part 2No matter what language we use to describe the Divine, for spiritual seekers the hope is that our understanding and connection will continue to expand and deepen. As Richard Rohr reminds us, "God is always bigger than the boxes we build for God, so we should not spend too much time protecting the boxes." In Episode 242, Cynthia and Susan take another look at the spaces where their own 'god-boxes' used to be: It's two women getting personal about what's new, what's not, and where and how they're seeking communion and/or communication now.
2025-10-281h 12
At Last She Said ItEpisode 237: The Invisible Labor of Women | A Conversation with Christine Pagano"There's no roadmap for how to do partnership in patriarchy, at least within our little Mormon frame of reference," explains Christine Pagano. "Patriarchy believes that men's time is finite—there's only 24 hrs—while women's time is infinite. It's unlimited. [...] Moms are carrying the load of domestic labor, invisible labor, emotional labor, and relational labor at much higher rates than their male partners." But it's not just at home: Within our church organization, women "are tasked with immense emotional, spiritual, and relational labor without equal voice, recognition, or authority. Improving the experience of LDS women means addressing both the invisible burdens they...
2025-09-301h 08
At Last She Said ItEpisode 236: We Don't Believe Our Own Stuff | ResurrectionIt seems Latter-day Saints most often speak about resurrection in the literal sense: the reuniting of spirit and body. Jesus rising from the tomb holds promise for us after our own inevitable physical death. But as Richard Rohr says, "Literalism is invariably the lowest and least level of meaning." So what else can we take from this concept? Actually, the gospel of Jesus Christ is all about renewal! In Episode 236, Cynthia and Susan explore resurrection. It's a conversation not about what happens after we die, but about the possibility of experiencing transformation in our lives here and now.
2025-09-231h 07
At Last She Said ItEpisode 235: Is it Too Expensive to be a Latter-day Saint? | A Conversation with Natalie Brown"In all my angst about if I would marry and if I would have children and if I would have a career, I did not fully consider how the ideals in this proclamation from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints reflected a certain moment in white, middle-class America's economic history," writes Natalie Brown. Most Latter-day Saints have absorbed a lifetime of talks and lessons centered around an "ideal" family model in which a father goes to work and a mother stays at home with the children. This arrangement is no longer economically possible for many American families, and...
2025-09-161h 03
At Last She Said ItEpisode 233: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Jen Dille"Deconstruction doesn't just happen to lazy learners," says Jen Dille. "It's often the most true-blue Mormons and the people who are all in who have this experience." In episode 233, Jen joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about her personal journey. It's a story of old wheels coming off, and the new ones taking their place. "I dream of a time where we can each just have our own experience, and be okay with that, not be scared or threatened by it," she explains. "If we could find other ways to be LDS and still come together, that's the dream."
2025-09-091h 12
At Last She Said ItEpisode 230: Creating Your Future | A Conversation with Jody England Hansen"I can take as long as I need on the edge of the chasm of the unknown," writes Jody England Hansen. "I can experience the terror of moving into the future for however long I feel it. I can turn again to the past if I choose to deal with that pain. I can create my future, choosing to step forward on a path that I might not see until I am in the next moment, the next place I step." In Episode 230, Jody joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss approaching whatever's next in our lives with active hope and...
2025-08-261h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 229: What About Empathy?How can we know if we're getting it right when it comes to meeting others with empathy? "Empathy is a tool of compassion," writes Brene Brown. "We can respond empathically only if we are willing to be present to someone's pain. If we're not willing to do that, it's not real empathy." We're living now in a time and society where people actually talk about the sin of empathy. But for followers of Jesus—charged to mourn with and comfort others—how can being present to someone else's pain ever wear the title of "sin?" In Episode 229, Cynthia and Susan take...
2025-08-191h 03
At Last She Said ItEpisode 228: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Abby Maxwell HansenFor many Latter-day Saint women, a faith journey begins as their personal experiences pile up and dots begin to connect. Abby Maxwell Hansen began to see a thread of internalized misogyny in her own story emerge like this: "Every time I went to church, I had some type of message—whether it was really overt or whether it was just sitting down at conference, and they didn't come out and say women's voices aren't as important, but all the speakers were men except for two. So whether it was implied or overtly stated, I got the message over and over th...
2025-08-121h 14
At Last She Said ItEpisode 226: I Am a Woman of Faith | Tackling Imposter SyndromeSometimes it's hard to untangle specific beliefs from our ideas about faith. Is struggling with church policies or doctrinal tenets an indictment of a Latter-day Saint woman's faith? What does it even mean to have faith? And who gets to measure ours? In Episode 226, Cynthia and Susan take on a topic that comes up frequently for church members who find themselves on a journey of expansion or redefinition: Imposter Syndrome. It's a conversation about faith vs. knowledge, Churchianity vs. Christianity, the place of doubt in a religious life, and finding hope by leaning into personal spiritual authority.
2025-08-051h 08
At Last She Said ItEpisode 225: Navigating the Fallow Years | A Conversation with Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi"I have always felt the gentle nature of Jesus being one of the most resonating parts of what I saw and knew as the gospel, and I always imagined Jesus speaking to me, saying, 'Consider the lilies, how they grow, and they don't toil.' And my whole life ... I have been a toiler," explains Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi. "What if I wasn't a planter at this time, and what if I was the field?" In Episode 225, Kajsa joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about being still. What kind of rejuvenative possibilities might exist when, for whatever reason, we find ourselves...
2025-07-291h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 224: Navigating Transitions | What Triggered Your Faith Journey?Maya Angelou said, "There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you." When things start to get shifty in your faith life, it can feel overwhelming and difficult to talk about, even with those closest to you. There are as many stories of evolving faith as there are Latter-day Saint women who experience them. For Season 10, Cynthia and Susan have asked listeners to share what started them on the journey they're navigating now. In Episode 224, they explore some of those stories.
2025-07-221h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 223: Making Friends with Change | A Conversation about Hope"There is hope in the certainty that things do change," writes Buddhist teacher Sharon Salzberg. But there is also real anxiety in the certainty that things do change. Change is the force that pushes us forward, without asking whether we want to move. Can the way we think about and navigate life's transitions improve our experience of them? In Episode 223, Susan and Cynthia are back for Season 10 with a conversation about the relentless nature of change, and what it might mean to lean into hope.
2025-07-151h 16
At Last She Said ItEpisode 222 (Bonus): Mailbag!In this bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss a few voicemails from the ALSSI mailbag. The male gaze, sad heaven, organizational/prophetic focus, sealing policy, and dancing with parables are some of the topics touched on in this wide-ranging conversation.
2025-06-171h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 220: The Women Are Not Okay | A Conversation About the Male GazeHow much in the Church is still, in 2025, coming to us through the male lens? Pretty much all of it. Our scriptures, doctrine, ward boundaries, curriculum, conference talks, local leadership, and decisions are almost entirely by and/or about men. A women's organization made and presided over by men is not really a women's organization, is it? How could men ever describe or define women—our roles, attributes, or experiences—not as they see us, but as we actually are? In Episode 220, Cynthia and Susan wrap the season of zooming-out conversations by examining how the male gaze continues to shape and...
2025-04-151h 26
At Last She Said ItEpisode 219: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Linda HamiltonLinda Hamilton explains, "I spent my whole life believing that spirituality was in big things. Visions from heaven, angels, signs. We always say in Mormonism, don't wait for a sign. You won't get a sign; you won't get a miracle. We say that...and then we go up in testimony meeting and talk about some sign we received." She describes having spent much of her youth wondering how to get things like signs, or a surefire testimony. "And now," she says, "I've really embraced [that] spirituality is small things. It's yoga, it's going for a walk, it's my cats, it's...
2025-04-081h 21
At Last She Said ItEpisode 218: Faith, Control and Identity—The Impact of a High Demand Religion | A Conversation with C.A. LarsonTherapist C.A. Larson defines a high-demand religion as "a religious group that exerts significant control over its members' beliefs, behaviors, and daily lives. These groups often require strict adherence to doctrine, discourage independent thinking, and use social, psychological, or spiritual pressure to maintain compliance." In Episode 218, C.A. joins Susan and Cynthia for an exploration of high-demand religions and the impact they can have on their members' mental and spiritual health. Though individual experiences will vary, this discussion zooms out to highlight the significant overlap between characteristics of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other churches...
2025-04-011h 29
At Last She Said ItEpisode 217: Following Your Conscience | A Conversation with Laurie Lee Hall"We have direct access to light and knowledge and power, and we have the right—the divinely given right—to take that power, even if it says to us something different from how the authorities or power structures over us may be thinking. If it's the thing that's right and true for ourselves, we are benefited when we follow the dictates of our own conscience," says Laurie Lee Hall. She joins Susan and Cynthia in Episode 217 for a conversation about trusting ourselves in the journey toward wholeness. Laurie Lee's personal experiences bear out her advice: "We nourish [the Spirit] by hear...
2025-03-251h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 216: The Ultimate Big Deal Part 4 | Spiritual SeparatorsThese days it seems Latter-day Saints talk about the importance of temple attendance in almost every meeting and lesson. It makes sense: in 2001, then-Elder Russell M. Nelson explained, "Every activity, every lesson, all we do in the Church, point to the Lord and His Holy house." But might this relentless focus on a thing not all members participate in work as a separator in our congregations, communities, and relationships? In Episode 216, Susan and Cynthia return to the topic of the temple for a fourth time. It's a discussion that touches on everything from recommends to what Jesus shows and tells...
2025-03-181h 12
At Last She Said ItEpisode 215: Let's Talk About ShibbolethsShibboleths are customs, traditions, words, or phrasings that distinguish one group of people from another. Latter-day Saints have a lot of unique identifiers. Garment lines, beverage choices, vocabulary, or prayer styles might serve as reliable clues to whether or not someone belongs to our church. In Episode 215, Cynthia and Susan talk about some of these shibboleths and how they function within our culture to identify not only whether or not someone is a member, but in some cases what type of member they are.
2025-03-111h 10
At Last She Said ItEpisode 214: Changemakers | A Conversation with McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel"Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a book about girls who ask great questions?" This question from a 9-year-old inspired authors McArthur Krishna and Anne Pimentel to create their book Changemakers: Women Who Boldly Built Zion. By highlighting women's stories, the book affirms our roles in building, growing, and sustaining the Church—influencing organization, policy, and culture. In Episode 214, Cynthia and Susan are joined by the authors for a conversation about specific ways women's voices have mattered historically, and how we might continue to influence and effect change today and in the future.
2025-03-041h 09
At Last She Said ItEpisode 213: Introverts in an Extrovert's Church"What is it like to be an introvert in a church that really supports extroversion?" When therapist C.A. Larson asked this question in a previous episode, it was a lightbulb moment for many listeners. Through voicemails, emails, and on social media, women of the ALSSI community reported feeling seen, and understanding their own church experiences in a new way. In Episode 213, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss the messages listeners submitted, as well as their own experiences. What might our church gain from fully embracing all personality types?
2025-02-251h 25
At Last She Said ItEpisode 212: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Kathie Debenham"My faith is this process of evolving, ebbing, flowing, forming, reforming, shaping, shape shifting," explains Kathie Debenham. It's no surprise that she describes her faith as a moving thing; as a dancer, her education includes a graduate certification focused on "observing, describing, recording, and making meaning of movement." In Episode 212, Kathie joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about her personal journey—where she's been, where she is, and how she intends to keep moving. She says, "I have given myself permission to allow my faith to continue to evolve as informed by my spiritual practice and by the light and kn...
2025-02-1858 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 211: Who's the Decider? | A Conversation with Natalie BrownWhen asked about the possibility of priesthood ordination for women in 1998, Pres. Gordon B. Hinckley famously told Larry King, "It would take another revelation to bring that about. I don't anticipate it." Big changes have come following revelations in LDS history, but must prophetic revelation always precede change? Even on a local level, many leaders are hesitant to innovate in small ways. Natalie Brown posits that "not every small experiment should require prophetic sign off." In Episode 211, she joins Cynthia and Susan for a conversation about how change happens—or doesn't—at church. Do debate and discussion have a place, and...
2025-02-111h 00
At Last She Said ItEpisode 210: Marriage Edition Part 2 | A(nother) Conversation with Dr. Jennifer BirdIn Part 2 of the conversation about biblical marriage, Susan and Cynthia ask Dr. Jennifer Bird about virginity, purity culture, and—of course!—biblical polygamy. Joseph Smith drew on polygamy in the Hebrew Bible to justify instituting the practice in early Mormonism, teaching that sometimes God not only condoned but actually mandated it. So what does a feminist biblical scholar say about it?
2025-02-0457 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 209: Does That Scripture Mean What You Think it Means? Marriage Edition | A Conversation with Dr. Jennifer Bird"If we want to look at this sacred collection called the Bible as our guide, let's be really clear and honest about what it was saying on its own terms first, then leave it up to everyone to figure out what we're going to do with that, because we're going to do different things with it," suggests Dr. Jennifer Bird. In Episode 209, she joins Susan and Cynthia for part one of a conversation about biblical marriage. Is it possible that in our reading of the Bible, we've layered a lot of our own ideas about marriage and relationships on top...
2025-01-2853 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 208: Patriarchy 101 | A Conversation with Amy McPhie AllebestLatter-day Saints have a complicated relationship with the word patriarchy. We reverence it, including variations in some of our highest callings and ordinances, yet many members won't touch it in a discussion of women's rights or organizational equality. So how can we have meaningful conversations about it with other Church members? Amy McPhie Allebest says, "There are two ways to try to reach people's hearts and minds to say, 'I'm serious, this is a problem.' One is through facts, and one is through feelings." In Episode 208, Amy joins Cynthia and Susan to explore both in a discussion aimed at...
2025-01-211h 11
At Last She Said ItEpisode 207: What About Religiosity, Violence and Abuse? | A Conversation with Dr. Susan MadsenWhen it comes to talking about abuse and violence against women, "You have to become comfortable with being uncomfortable," explains Susan Madsen. In Episode 207, Dr. Madsen joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about the link between religiosity and abuse, and the power disparity that fosters it. Even where the Church is strongest, the statistics are troubling, to say the least. How might our church and its members move from lip service to leading "the army to protect home, family, and children?"
2025-01-141h 08
At Last She Said ItEpisode 206: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Darice Auston"How many things have to happen to you before something occurs to you," says Darice Auston, quoting Robert Frost. In Episode 206, Darice joins Cynthia and Susan to share some of the things that have occurred to her, and where those insights are leading her now. It's a conversation that illustrates the ways our unique experiences can shape and inform our spiritual life and church engagement, leading to a truer expression of our deepest personal beliefs.
2025-01-071h 02
At Last She Said ItEpisode 205: The Spiritual Nature of All Things | A Conversation with Kaylee McElroy"The natural world, with all its varieties of God's creations, shows us so many [other] ways of being," writes Kaylee McElroy. Zooming out as far as human imagination can take us may bring our ideas about God and our relationship to the physical world into clearer focus. In Episode 205, Susan and Cynthia are joined by Kaylee for a conversation about everything: structures, darkness, creation, connection, and the convergence of physics and spirituality.
2024-12-1759 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 204: Do I Have to Care? | The Second ComingIn a church where everything is "true," how do we allocate importance? With only so much bandwidth, we all have to make choices about what matters to us. Which ideas do we find to be consistently resonant, or generative? Which produce meaningful fruit in our lives and relationships? In Episode 204, Cynthia and Susan take on the current interest in the Second Coming in a discussion about deciding what really matters.
2024-12-101h 03
At Last She Said ItEpisode 203: An Evolving Faith | A Conversation with Valerie HamakerThere are some topics that seem to surface again and again in our ALSSI conversations: love, fear, self, change, and patriarchy, to name a few. In Episode 203, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Valerie Hamaker for a conversation that touches on these themes and others as we discuss evolving faith.
2024-12-0359 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 202: Who Deserves to Hear My Story?When things start to shift around our faith, the need to tell people about the change can feel overwhelming. There are all kinds of reasons people want to share—it can feel isolating to carry such big thoughts, feelings, and experiences alone. But depending on the circumstances, spilling the details of your evolving faith can have all kinds of consequences. In Episode 202, Susan and Cynthia discuss the question, "Who deserves to hear my story?"
2024-11-261h 12
At Last She Said ItEpisode 201: What About Certainty? | What About Conscience?David French wrote, "We live in an age of misplaced certainty, when even the smallest expressions of doubt or the slightest of disagreements break institutions and fracture families." In Episode 201, Cynthia and Susan take on certainty as it contributes to the development of a Church monoculture. Is there room for existential or intellectual humility in a "True" church? And as members of an organization built around checklists and worthiness assessments, can Latter-day Saints allow individual conscience to function as a holy disruptor?
2024-11-191h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 200: Let's Zoom Waaay OutOur spiritual lives are our own, but they don't exist in a vacuum. We can do all the inner work we want, but as Latter-day Saint women our personal journey is always going to intersect with our Church membership, theology and history, our marriages, friendships and families, our communities, education and politics, and all the messaging we absorb in these interactions. In Episode 200, Cynthia and Susan discuss how looking at our journey in context can help us better understand our individual story.
2024-11-121h 03
At Last She Said ItEpisode 199 (Bonus): Revisiting "Did It Ever Matter?" | Garments"All dogma begins in mysticism," says Rob Bell. But by the time programs, practices, and policies filter down to Church members, it's little wonder the criteria for determining what really matters in the long term—and why—can feel a bit fuzzy. In light of recent changes, in bonus Episode 199 Cynthia and Susan revisit their conversation from Episode 102, Did It Ever Matter? What's the point of all the trappings of our religious practice as Latter-day Saints? Why do some changes bring so much emotion? And who gets to determine what's important to us?
2024-10-291h 39
At Last She Said ItEpisode 198 (Bonus): What About Women Leaving the Church? | Revisiting Messages to Our DaughtersAn August 2024 Church Handbook update includes instruction inviting "Young Women class presidencies to organize youth to minister by welcoming visitors and members as they enter the chapel." Does this baby step represent leadership's awareness of the need for Latter-day Saint young women to have some kind of systematic responsibility at the ward level? In Episode 198, Cynthia and Susan discuss this change in the context of research detailing historic shifts in religious engagement for Gen Z men and women. This episode also revisits a previous exploration of the question many of the Church's children are asking: "When will girls be able...
2024-10-011h 31
At Last She Said ItEpisode 197: Season 8 | That's a Wrap!As a finale to this season of conversations about women's spirituality, in Episode 197 Susan and Cynthia revisit some ideas that stood out to them, discuss personal takeaways, and chat about what's on each of their minds now.
2024-08-271h 18
At Last She Said ItEpisode 196: What About Ritual? | A Conversation with Selina Forsyth"For me, broadening my thinking about ritual has given me more freedom to bring my whole self and my creativity to my spiritual life, as well as meet my unique and evolving spiritual needs," explains Selina Forsyth, who joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss ritual in the lives of Latter-day Saint women. What about when the rituals provided by our religion no longer fit? Even if they do remain deeply meaningful, in a church where women have not been involved in creating official sacred rituals—and sometimes participate in them only as observers—it can be hard to feel we have...
2024-08-201h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 195: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Candice ClarkEvery Latter-day Saint woman's walk is unique. Cynthia and Susan are joined in Episode 195 by Candice Clark, who shares a glimpse of her personal path and some valuable insights she's picked up along the way. She reminds us, "As a mother raised in the Church, one thing I'm grateful to have finally learned is that my desires matter. They don't matter more than anyone else's; they also don't matter less. It's good to know what I want, whether or not I get it. And it's okay for me to get what I want sometimes."
2024-08-1358 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 194: Mental Health, Spirituality, and Religion, Oh My! | A Conversation with C.A. Larson"If one is religious but not spiritual, it will not enhance mental health," says therapist C.A. Larson. In Episode 194, C.A. joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation at the intersection of religion and spirituality. What are the differences between the two? How do they function together, and separately? And what influence might each one have on our overall wellbeing?
2024-08-061h 19
At Last She Said ItEpisode 193: What About Blessings, Part 3 | Things That Would Be Nice If They Were TrueBad things happen to good people—good works cannot protect us from the natural consequences of being human in an imperfect world. But in a church where the narrative often draws connections between worthiness and blessings, it can be hard to avoid internalizing the idea that we're special and can achieve control by doing the right things. "How do I reconcile my life experiences with the things the Church teaches about blessings?" This prompt from a listener frames Susan and Cynthia's discussion in Episode 193. It's a conversation about one of life's biggest questions, and the spiritual havoc members sometimes wreak by...
2024-07-301h 02
At Last She Said ItEpisode 192: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Anne Pimentel"We can do things a little differently and still be okay," says Anne Pimentel. She's a natural—but also intentional—space-maker, devoted to the idea that one can be a "good member" of the Church without fitting the mold. In Episode 192 Anne joins Susan and Cynthia for a conversation about how she learned and has internalized this lesson for herself. She's a Latter-day Saint woman whose desire to be an ally in all areas continues to shape the way she shows up in her ward and in the world.
2024-07-231h 06
At Last She Said ItEpisode 191: What About Grief? | A Conversation with Pam Heggie"My faith life really begins with death," explains Pam Heggie. "Meaning, the real, genuine experiences of my life that molded me, shaped me and taught me what love and empathy really are, began with deaths. Four (so far) to be exact. Five if you count my own." In Episode 191, Pam joins Susan and Cynthia to discuss lessons she's learned at the intersection of grief and faith. In what ways might being a member of our church make grieving easier...or harder? Her experiences are packed with insights that can help all of us in our desire to mourn with and...
2024-07-161h 10
At Last She Said ItEpisode 189: What About Sister Missionaries?In Episode 189, ALSSI team member and returned missionary Katie joins Cynthia and Susan for a dive into listener voicemails about women's experiences as sister missionaries for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. From the pressures around the decision to serve to the daily realities of mission life, there's plenty to unpack. The rigors of mission service can pay big dividends and/or cause ongoing pain for years post-mission. Every missionary's experience is individual—a complicated mix of hardship and reward—but is there additional complexity for women who serve?
2024-07-091h 21
At Last She Said ItEpisode 188: Jesus and the Canaanite Woman | Cynthia's Sacrament Meeting Talk"If you lift up a prism, depending on how you slightly turn it, the light will hit different facets, refracting and coming out in different ways. That's how I like to approach the scriptures," explains Cynthia, "Turning them just ever so slightly to see what different meanings there could be." In Episode 188, she turns her personal prism on the story of Jesus and the Syrophoenician woman, exploring some interpretations of the unique dialog between them. It's a short story touching on big themes including vulnerability, growth, faith, persistence, and inclusiveness. Then Susan joins and together they dive a little deeper...
2024-07-0255 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 187: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Amy Watkins Jensen"Spiritual stretching ... makes you stronger, gives you more balance, and keeps you stable. It took me years to understand that my questions and seeking that stretch me, and are really difficult to wrestle with, are healthy and completely in line with our theology. [...] We need more stretchy saints." Amy Watkins Jensen has plenty of hard-earned wisdom to share with those who may be experiencing challenges—even heartbreak—on their journey as Latter-day Saint women. In Episode 187, she joins Cynthia and Susan to talk about how her lifetime of church experience continues to fuel her faith.
2024-06-2559 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 186: What Happened to Community? | A Conversation with Candice Wendt"Life as a member offers relatively little social time or enjoyment," writes Candice Wendt. "Being in the ward is mostly about passive listening and being told to follow leaders and go to the temple. [...] You're more likely to get asked to clean our very dirty building than be asked to dinner." In episode 186, Candice joins Susan and Cynthia for a discussion of some of the ways church has changed, with more focus on things like covenants and temple attendance, and less on community. It's a conversation about what we've lost, what's important, what remains, and what it all might mean...
2024-06-181h 06
At Last She Said ItEpisode 185: Does That Scripture Mean What You Think it Means? | A Dance with the Parable of the TalentsRob Bell describes interacting with scripture like this: there's the black ink (what's written on the page), then there's the white space around it (where we dance with what's written). In Episode 185, Susan and Cynthia take on what Latter-day Saints commonly call the Parable of the Talents, from Matthew 25. It's a conversation about grace out of hand, covenant relationship, and how we may have come to think about things the way we do. If you're a fan of the #gracepeddlers, you won't want to miss it!
2024-06-1157 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 184: Am I Allowed to Change? A Conversation with Jana SpanglerMany of us make temple covenants as young adults. Are we expected to have the same perspectives and priorities at 80 that we had at 18? In a church that emphasizes concepts like "staying on the covenant path" and "enduring to the end," it can be hard to know how to navigate when our life experiences invite us to grow in new directions. In Episode 184, Jana Spangler joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss the challenges Latter-day Saints may face as they change and mature within an inflexible paradigm.
2024-06-0459 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 183: What About Anger?We asked, you answered! Of all emotions, anger might be the least acceptable for Latter-day Saint women. Many of us are not comfortable being around it, expressing it, talking about it, or even feeling it. But when we choose silence over healthy dialogue, what's the toll on our physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being? In Episode 183, Cynthia and Susan share listener voicemails about anger. Can we create space in our church culture for women to both experience and express this natural response?
2024-05-2859 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 182: The Harder the Better | A Conversation with Valerie HamakerDoes devotion always require walking uphill? What's the difference between good-hard and bad-hard? Do some Church members see the difficulty of a thing as a measure of the righteousness it requires? Has "more suffering and sacrifice" somehow come to mean "higher and holier" in the LDS narrative? In Episode 182, Valerie Hamaker of Latter-day Struggles podcast joins Susan and Cynthia to discuss these questions and more as they unpack the notion that harder is better when it comes to living our faith.
2024-05-211h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 181: What About the Sacrament?As the centerpiece of Sunday worship and an ordinance pointing directly to Jesus Christ, the sacrament holds deep meaning for many Latter-day Saints. In Episode 181, Cynthia and Susan turn their grace-peddling to a conversation about the sacrament. What matters more: worthiness, or willingness? When did this simple remembrance of Jesus become about "renewing our baptismal covenant," and what does that mean? How might the evolution of personal faith impact the way one thinks about and engages with this ordinance? Can a ritual that is so familiar take on new significance as we change and grow?
2024-05-141h 09
At Last She Said ItEpisode 180: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Mary CoxMary once put a vinyl motto above her kitchen door that read, "That's What We Do!" It was a 4-word description of her life as a Latter-day Saint woman. For many years, she and her husband were "the couple who could get it done" at church. She describes looking back with grace for that younger self: "She was doing the best she could with what she knew. But she was exhausted and her children and family structure suffered. More importantly—she suffered." Then Mary changed. In Episode 180, she joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about that change and rebuilding her sp...
2024-05-071h 02
At Last She Said ItEpisode 179: Am I Spiritual?What is spirituality? Am I doing it right? What does it look or feel like? Who decides? Episode 179 rounds out the intro of our theme with an exploration of James Finley's idea: "The greatest teacher of God's presence in our life is our life." Cynthia and Susan discuss the difference between communication and communion, finding points of connection in our daily experiences, and identifying and/or choosing personal spiritual practices for ourselves.
2024-04-301h 06
At Last She Said ItEpisode 178: Women's Spirituality | A Conversation with Brittney HartleyLike flowers in the cracks of a sidewalk, women's spirituality has had to work its way around and through thousands of years of religious beliefs and practices established and maintained by and for men. "I have stopped trying to make my life look spiritually acceptable to men. Men have very specific criteria for what spirituality is, based on the reality that men have been the only ones writing religious rites and scripture," explains Brittney Hartley. Her words are deeply resonant for many Latter-day Saint women who struggle to grow our own spirituality in a church that is patriarchy all the...
2024-04-231h 06
At Last She Said ItEpisode 176 (Bonus:) What About Season 8?In this short bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia look ahead to the upcoming season of podcast conversations. Season 8 will center on Latter-day Saint women digging and drawing from our individual spiritual wells. Hope you'll join us!
2024-04-0920 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 175 (Bonus): Revisiting When Women Are The ProblemIn this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan revisit part of an earlier discussion exploring the idea of Latter-day Saint women's complicity in our own marginalization. Recent events have once again highlighted ways women may be the biggest obstacle to achieving greater parity of roles within the organization. It's still an itchy topic with no easy answers. This conversation is a call for women to support other women as a necessary first step to change. The underlying question remains: if we can't allow for—and sit with each other in—different experiences, can we truly love one another?
2024-04-021h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 174 (Bonus): Exhibit A—Reactions to the Relief Society BroadcastOn March 17, 2024 the Church broadcast a Worldwide Relief Society Devotional featuring remarks from the RS General Presidency and President Nelson. In this bonus episode, Cynthia and Susan discuss some of the messages delivered and the social media outpouring from Latter-day Saint women in response.
2024-03-1953 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 173: An Open Letter to the Church | The Imagination EpisodeSome topics come up in these podcast conversations again and again, and that gets our attention. They frustrate us but also feel like obvious opportunities: areas where the church we love could take a step forward, and even small changes might make a big difference. In Episode 173, Cynthia and Susan call out a few of their frustrations and imagine possible responses that would feel like real progress.
2024-01-301h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 172: The Grace Peddlers are BackTalk a lot about guilt and shame and eventually, you'll probably crave a hefty dose of grace! The conversation in Episode 172 is just that. Cynthia and Susan focus on challenges Latter-day Saints might have decoupling works and grace. Is it possible accepting grace actually requires more faith than depending on our own good works? How might pivoting toward grace propel us forward? Good news spoiler: We don't have to save ourselves!
2024-01-2359 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 171: What About Guilt and Shame? | A Conversation with C.A. Larson, Part 2In Episode 171, Susan and Cynthia continue their discussion with therapist C.A. Larson about guilt and shame. Where are they coming from? What are some specific ways these emotions might affect Latter-day Saint women, and how can we recognize and work through them in healthy ways?
2024-01-1652 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 170: What About Guilt and Shame? | A Conversation with C.A. Larson, Part 1"The most liberating process is to realize that no one's expectations for my life matter but my own," says therapist C.A. Larson. In Episode 170, she joins Cynthia and Susan for the first part of a discussion about guilt and shame. What's the difference between these two emotions? How do they help or hinder our growth and progress? And what tools can we use to manage them in healthy ways, and move toward greater self-acceptance?
2024-01-091h 01
At Last She Said ItEpisode 169: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Lisa Torcasso Downing"My religious life is beyond the confines of my ward or stake," says Lisa Torcasso Downing, a Latter-day Saint woman for whom using her voice is an integral part of her faith life. She describes her long-running blog, Life Outside the Book of Mormon Belt: "That's where I've been saying it!" In Episode 169, she joins Susan and Cynthia for a rich conversation about everything from her unique conversion story to some of the foundational ideas that shaped her Mormonism to the ups and downs of learning to advocate.
2024-01-021h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 168: Revisiting What Women Don't Get in our ChurchSome questions need to be revisited often so we don't lose sight of the fact that no satisfactory answer has been given. In Episode 91, Cynthia asked, "If history shows that patriarchy is bad for women, and data shows that girls and women fare better when they can see themselves at every level of leadership in our churches, schools, and societies…why do LDS women and men continue to cling to old ideas that deny history and data?" Unfortunately, her question stands, as little if any progress has been made. In Episode 168 we preface a rerun of this previous conversation with a...
2023-12-261h 24
At Last She Said ItEpisode 167: Behind the ScenesSometimes it's good to just have fun! Episode 167 is a peek behind the curtain at ALSSI. Cynthia and Susan turn on the mics for an unscripted chat about everything from podcaster-pet-peeves to "spilled tea" to Christmas traditions. It's the kind of conversation that's probably good to publish now and then just to remind ourselves and everyone else: we're two average LDS women trying to keep it together and figuring stuff out as we go.
2023-12-1955 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 166: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Lyric Montgomery KinardLyric Montgomery Kinard uses the word expansion to describe her faith journey because, as she says, "it feels like spirituality has burst my Mormon box wide-open." In Episode 166, she joins Susan and Cynthia to talk about her experiences as a Latter-day Saint. It's another glimpse into the life of a woman who's given herself permission to walk the path in her own way, honest about what fills her and what doesn't, and willing to speak her truth.
2023-12-121h 04
At Last She Said ItEpisode 164: What About Patriarchal Blessings?When it comes to Patriarchal Blessings, there are as many experiences as there are members who give and receive them. In Episode 164, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Blakelee Ellis for a discussion about some of the many ways these highly anticipated blessings can be complicated for Latter-day Saint women. From the experience itself to the advice given or promises made, there can be plenty to unpack at the time the words are spoken, but also as we continue to revisit the transcript throughout our lives.
2023-12-0558 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 163: Finding Jesus Through Your Inner Compass | A Conversation with Autumn McAlpinThe image of the compass feels central to Autumn McAlpin's book, But Jesus: A Conversation. Autumn explains, "Right now, my spiritual practice is centered on this—I read pure religion as found in the gospels in the New Testament, then try my best to keep up…" In Episode 163, she joins Cynthia and Susan to talk about the journey behind the book, and how her experiences as a mother and Latter-day Saint LGBTQ+ ally continue to shape her commitment to following Jesus and focusing on love.
2023-11-281h 06
At Last She Said ItEpisode 162: Stepping Out of the Box with Jesus—Claiming Space in the Gospel Narrative | A Conversation with Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi"I'm tired of putting Jesus in a hermeneutical box nailed together by patriarchal exegesis," says Kajsa Berlin-Kaufusi. In Episode 162, she joins Cynthia and Susan to discuss what those words mean. What might they mean specifically for Latter-day Saint women as we approach the New Testament with a desire to broaden our scriptural understanding and interpretation? Can we excavate meaning by uncovering and examining biblical women in new light?
2023-11-211h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 161: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Debbie Squires-Coleman"In the fleet, I'll sail my own boat," says Debbie Squires-Coleman. In Episode 161, she joins Cynthia and Susan from her home in England to share this and other insights in an Embracing Your Journey discussion about her experiences as a Latter-day Saint woman. It's a conversation about relationships and growth, full of wise glimpses into how it's possible to walk together in love, even on divergent paths.
2023-11-141h 05
At Last She Said ItEpisode 160: At Last YOU Said It Part 2 | More Listener VoicemailsIn Bonus Episode 160, Susan and Cynthia share and discuss more ALSSI listener voicemails.
2023-11-1056 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 159: At Last YOU Said It | ALSSI Listener VoicemailsWe started this project in an effort to amplify Latter-day Saint women's voices and create a safe space for sharing ideas and experiences. In Episode 159, Cynthia and Susan dive into listener voicemails to hear, share, and discuss things women in the ALSSI community are saying.
2023-11-0754 min
At Last She Said ItEpisode 158: Telling the Truth | A Conversation with Jana RiessTelling the truth can be complicated for a Latter-day Saint woman, even if we value honesty. It's hard to say out loud some of what we're thinking, feeling, or experiencing. At church or even in our families and close relationships we may self-censor with an 'okayness' filter: Is it uplifting? Faith promoting? Too negative? Does it cast the Church in an unfavorable light? Sound contentious? Will I look less worthy/valiant/faithful? And how are others likely to react? In Episode 158, Susan and Cynthia are joined by author/columnist Jana Riess for a conversation about potential upsides and downsides of...
2023-10-311h 06
At Last She Said ItEpisode 157: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Mer MonsonEvery faith path is walked one step at a time. Every woman's story is unique. In Episode 157, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Mer Monson to talk about her journey so far, and how the ground she's traveled informs the way she's walking now. It's a conversation that radiates hard-won wisdom, an inspiring glimpse into one Latter-day Saint woman's spiritual life.
2023-10-241h 00
At Last She Said ItEpisode 156: What About Consent?There are many touchpoints with consent in a Latter-day Saint woman's church life. From baptism to temple ordinances to accepting callings, we say yes over and over again, sometimes without ever seriously engaging our options. In Episode 156, Susan and Cynthia unpack consent. There are good reasons a woman might say 'yes' even while something inside her is saying 'no,' but true consent isn't coerced by force, threats, pressure, or intimidation. And silence is not consent.
2023-10-171h 07
At Last She Said ItEpisode 155: To the Children of the Mothers in Zion | A Conversation with Susie AugensteinFor Latter-day Saint women in 1987, expectations outlined by the prophet were explicit: "Mothers in Zion," he said, "Your God-given roles are so vital to your own exaltation and to the salvation and exaltation of your family." In episode 155, Susan and Cynthia are joined by Susie Augenstein to break down the messaging mothers received then and have raised children in the shadows of since. It's no wonder shifts in faith cause strain within families. This conversation is aimed at helping children of women who took President Benson's words to heart understand why their mothers may sometimes fall into the trap of...
2023-10-101h 08
At Last She Said ItEpisode 154: What About Racism? | A Conversation with Tamu Smith"What could a Relief Society lesson on racism look like?" "What do you wish other members of the Church knew about what it's like to be a Black Latter-day Saint in 2023?" Cynthia asked Tamu Smith these questions and more as they visited in Cynthia's kitchen with the recorder running. In Episode 154, Tamu shares her personal insights and answers in a wide-ranging, thoughtful conversation between two good friends.
2023-10-031h 09
At Last She Said ItEpisode 152: Spelling It OutFor some Latter-day Saint women, embracing the journey may include reckoning with difficult aspects of the church experience that are specific to women. Some may choose to leave when they find their personal cost exceeds their benefit. In Episode 152, Susan and Cynthia muddy the water around the decision to 'stay' with a frank discussion about things a woman may have to accept, ignore, or sacrifice in order to make that choice.
2023-09-191h 07
At Last She Said ItEpisode 151: Embracing Your Journey | A Conversation with Aubrey ChavesEvery Latter-day Saint woman is on her own journey of faith. We describe it using all kinds of language, and some days the path ahead seems a lot clearer than other days. We each carry our own baggage, our own maps, our own stories of how we came to be where and who we are. Learning to relax into change in this part of our lives can be difficult in a religion where we hear phrases like 'immovable faith,' 'knowing with every fiber of our being,' and 'unchanging doctrine.' In Episode 151, Cynthia and Susan are joined by...
2023-09-121h 08
At Last She Said ItEpisode 150: Why We StaySeason 7 begins with a series of conversations exploring reasons some women continue to find spiritual value participating in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and some do not. Every individual has her own faith story, and in Episode 150, Cynthia and Susan ask themselves and each other the question listeners continue to ask more than any other: Why do you stay?
2023-09-051h 08
At Last She Said ItBONUS | Still Making PeaceWhere are you turning for peace these days? It can feel elusive on a shifting path! In bonus Episode 149, Cynthia and Susan revisit an earlier conversation to compare notes and discuss things they're still learning when it comes to the ongoing challenge of 'making and doing' personal peace.
2023-08-151h 24
At Last She Said ItBONUS | Still Asking—Where's the Priesthood in That?In this bonus episode, Susan and Cynthia discuss new thoughts and old frustrations around a previous conversation from ALSSI Episode 35 about church callings and priesthood authority. What is changing when it comes to organizational roles for Latter-day Saint women, and what hasn't changed at all? Is there movement toward greater equality in our church opportunities and experiences? Are women getting any closer to finally being "in the room where it happens?"
2023-08-0152 min
At Last She Said ItBONUS | Revisiting the MapIn this episode, Cynthia and Susan add a few new thoughts to their conversation from Season 1 about going off the edge of one's map in pursuit of a more personalized spiritual life. In this discussion ALSSI listeners will recognize the seeds of many foundational ideas about the importance of spiritual empowerment for Latter-day Saint women that this podcast has continued to develop and explore in depth.
2023-07-181h 07
At Last She Said ItBONUS | Revisiting the Rule Breaking WomanIn Episode 146, Cynthia and Susan revisit The Rule Breaking Woman to discuss what her story can teach Latter-day Saint women about spiritual empowerment. It's a scriptural example of a woman who took a big risk, and received exactly what she was seeking in return. Sometimes getting what we need may require us to make choices that are at odds with what others deem acceptable or appropriate.
2023-07-0449 min
At Last She Said ItSeason 6 | That's a Wrap!Finale Episode 145 is a look back at Susan and Cynthia's sixth season of ALSSI conversations: identifying themes, adding additional thoughts, discussing listener responses, and thinking ahead.
2023-06-201h 23
At Last She Said ItGet Used to Disappointment | A Conversation with Dr. Julie Hanks"Your job as an adult is to disappoint people." So said Dr. Julie Hanks the first time she was on the ALSSI podcast. In Episode 143, she joins Cynthia and Susan to talk more about actually applying that statement in our lives and relationships. Why might it be hard for Latter-day Saint women to believe our choices don't have to please everyone—or even anyone—else?
2023-06-0645 min
At Last She Said ItMessages to our Daughters | Part 1—About Girls and the SacramentOne of the questions Cynthia and Susan hear most often comes from mothers who write, "My daughter is asking when it will be her turn to pass the sacrament….what should I say?" They took this question to listeners and in Episode 142, voices from the ALSSI community share answers. It's a broad conversation about women and priesthood featuring a diversity of ideas, experiences, and perspectives.
2023-05-3053 min
At Last She Said ItThe Making of Biblical Womanhood | A Conversation with Beth Allison BarrCan faithful women reject patriarchy? Beth Allison Barr's book, The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth, suggests the answer is yes. Her book is a compelling 'untelling' of the story of patriarchy as divinely appointed truth. In Episode 141, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Dr. Barr for a conversation about historical forces that have shaped women's roles in the world and at church. She offers insights not only into women's roles in the Bible, but specific to the lives of women in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints today.
2023-05-2356 min
At Last She Said ItDoes That Scripture Mean What You Think it Means? | A Dance with the Ten VirginsEvery church goer has probably heard more lessons about the wise and foolish virgins than they can count. Why do Latter-day Saints love to talk about this parable so much? And why do we seem to be so attached to one interpretation of it? In Episode 140, Susan and Cynthia try to shake up the same old conversation about this story—and the women in it—by asking a few new questions, and imagining new answers.
2023-05-1657 min
At Last She Said ItBONUS: Let's Talk About Garments...at last! | More with Afton Southam ParkerWhat would you say if you had the ear of the people in charge of designing garments? Afton Southam Parker came prepared with a 37 slide PowerPoint presentation, based on her own experiences and those of many other women who wear them. The meeting was a masterclass on many of the communication tips she talked about in Episode 138. In bonus Episode 139, she joins Cynthia and Susan to review her presentation, and break it all down!
2023-05-1243 min
At Last She Said ItFinding Your Voice...and Using It | A Conversation with Afton Southam ParkerBringing attention to issues affecting Latter-day Saint women requires us to be opportunistic about using our voices. Even those in leadership callings don't always find their ideas and opinions are welcome. And when chances to be heard do arise, the power dynamic of our culture and organization may make it hard for a woman to find the courage to express a non-traditional view. In Episode 138, Cynthia and Susan are joined by Afton Southam Parker, a woman who knows how to speak up about things that matter to her. It's a conversation about finding ways to make individual opinions, ideas, and...
2023-05-091h 02
At Last She Said ItLet's Talk About Healthy Relationships | A Conversation with Meghan DeckerIn close relationships, sometimes it's difficult to differentiate between a loved one's side of the road and our own. We may develop unhealthy or unbalanced behavioral patterns. Codependency is one word used to describe what happens when we begin internalizing someone else's emotions, or allow our well-being to become dependent on their behavior. We may try to fix, rescue, or control them. In Episode 137, Susan and Cynthia are joined by author Meghan Decker to discuss relationships and the challenges and rewards of establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries with the people we love.
2023-05-021h 01
At Last She Said ItWhat About Religious Trauma?What's religious trauma? For some Latter-day Saint women, church may become difficult or even unsafe because of it, yet many members have probably never heard of it. In episode 135, Jana Spangler joins Cynthia and Susan for a discussion of some of the ways trauma may manifest in our church experience, and steps we can take toward healing.
2023-04-181h 06
At Last She Said ItWhat About Converts? | A Conversation with KC BramerMany Latter-day Saint women have had similar experiences as lifelong Church members. We come up through Primary and Young Women's singing the same songs, going to camp, and participating in correlated lessons and activities. But what about women who convert later in life? In Episode 134, Cynthia and Susan chat with KC Bramer about her experiences before and after joining in her mid 40s. What's attractive about this church? What's confusing? Against the backdrop of her personal conversion and religious story, KCs insider/outsider perspective provides interesting insight into things that are the same and things that set us apart, things...
2023-04-111h 00
At Last She Said ItBONUS: Ask Us Anything |ALSSI'S Third Anniversary Part 2Enjoy dessert with Susan, Cynthia, and Blakelee in this continuation of ALSSI's Ask-Us-Anything Third Anniversary podcast celebration.
2023-04-0753 min
At Last She Said ItAsk Us Anything | ALSSI's Third AnniversaryPlease join us for Episode 132 as we celebrate our podcast anniversary with an Ask-Us-Anything conversation, hosted by Blakelee Ellis and featuring listener questions with Cynthia-and-Susan answers! It's a fun, wide ranging discussion packed with women's voices, ideas, and experiences—a perfect way to commemorate 3 years of saying it at last. Bring your own cake!
2023-04-0459 min
At Last She Said ItSpeaking in Sacrament Meeting | The Cynthia EditionFor ALSSI listeners, it'll be no surprise that when Cynthia was asked to speak on the subject of atonement, she pivoted to an exploration of grace. In Episode 130, ideas from her talk inspire a conversation about the relationship between those two words, as well as salvation and healing. Do Latter-day Saints believe in grace? Or are we mostly just confused by it? As we study the New Testament together, what might change if our discussion at church shifted to focus more on the radical grace exemplified in Jesus' ministry and teachings?
2023-03-211h 00
At Last She Said ItThree Sisters, Three Experiences | A Conversation with Cynthia, Patricia, and CarolynIt's easy to assume that when we're all in the same room, we're hearing, seeing, and experiencing the same things. But this discussion between three sisters shows that living in the same house, growing up in the same family, and attending the same ward and church activities carries no such guarantee. In Episode 129, Cynthia is joined by her two sisters for a conversation about how even Latter-day Saint women who share many commonalities are not having the same experiences in life or at church. It's an episode about how paths diverge and every journey with faith is a personal one.
2023-03-141h 03
At Last She Said ItIt's ComplicatedHosts Cynthia Winward and Susan Hinckley introduce themselves, talk about why they feel a podcast aimed at amplifying women's voices is needed, discuss the ways in which Mormon women's lives are particularly complicated, and introduce topics for future episodes.
2020-04-0235 min