Shows
New Kinship#70 - Who’s Afraid of Dependence? with Leah Libresco Sargeant“ In our society is a big assumption that what it means to be truly, fully human is to not need other people… So you face a choice: is it fundamentally a bad thing to be a person? Or, is our account of a person as ‘someone who’s independent and autonomous’ fundamentally untrue? And [if so] we have to make room for our genuine neediness in our account of what it means to be human and what we owe to each other.”Author Leah Libresco Sargeant joined New Kinship to talk about building community, relationships, and need. We discussed p...
2025-10-0857 minNew Kinship#70 - Who’s Afraid of Dependence? with Leah Libresco Sargeant“ In our society is a big assumption that what it means to be truly, fully human is to not need other people… So you face a choice: is it fundamentally a bad thing to be a person? Or, is our account of a person as ‘someone who’s independent and autonomous’ fundamentally untrue? And [if so] we have to make room for our genuine neediness in our account of what it means to be human and what we owe to each other.”Author Leah Libresco Sargeant joined New Kinship to talk about building community, relationships, and need. We discussed p...
2025-10-0857 min
New Kinship#69 - The Christian Story of Sex and Marriage with Tyler Parker (Part 2)“Paul [in 1st Corinthians] really does seem to think that what I do with my body, Christ has done with his body. Like, when I use my body to abuse other people, I have taken Christ's body and used it to abuse people, which for a Christian is the maximum sacrilege that you could do. But when I do something loving or caring or giving… I have taken Jesus' body and blessed others with it.”So.You heard part 1. (If not, it’s here: #68 - The Christian Story of Sex and Marriage, with Tyler Parker (Part 1...
2025-09-171h 25New Kinship#69 - The Christian Story of Sex and Marriage with Tyler Parker (Part 2)“Paul [in 1st Corinthians] really does seem to think that what I do with my body, Christ has done with his body. Like, when I use my body to abuse other people, I have taken Christ's body and used it to abuse people, which for a Christian is the maximum sacrilege that you could do. But when I do something loving or caring or giving… I have taken Jesus' body and blessed others with it.”So.You heard part 1. (If not, it’s here: #68 - The Christian Story of Sex and Marriage, with Tyler Parker (Part 1...
2025-09-171h 25
New Kinship#68 - The Christian Story of Sex and Marriage, with Tyler Parker (Part 1)What is marriage actually for? What is sex for?The way we answer these questions reveal the stories we tell ourselves and each other. So then: what is the story we see unfolding in the Bible? And what would it look like for the Christian story to be our primary narrative?In this episode, Tyler Parker takes us through the first part of the Biblical story. God’s kingdom on earth, how human marriage plays a role, what makes marriage a unique relationship, good stuff. And then we touch on the Christian story’s implications for...
2025-08-271h 20New Kinship#68 - The Christian Story of Sex and Marriage, with Tyler Parker (Part 1)What is marriage actually for? What is sex for?The way we answer these questions reveal the stories we tell ourselves and each other. So then: what is the story we see unfolding in the Bible? And what would it look like for the Christian story to be our primary narrative?In this episode, Tyler Parker takes us through the first part of the Biblical story. God’s kingdom on earth, how human marriage plays a role, what makes marriage a unique relationship, good stuff. And then we touch on the Christian story’s implications for...
2025-08-271h 20
New Kinship#67 - Ron Koustas's Testimony of Staying: Caregiving and Church Ministry in the AIDS CrisisIn LGBT and Christian communities, Ron Koustas has seen a lot. When his longtime partner was diagnosed with AIDS—in the early years before life-saving medications were available—Ron became his partner’s caregiver. As he revisited the Christian faith of his youth, Ron eventually joined and then served in ministries to gay folks in New York City. He’s seen ex-gay churches try to help people “become straight.” He’s seen churches love gay people well, and also poorly. He’s been part of several close “chosen families.” He’s been asked hurtful questions, been defended by church people, been asked to...
2025-08-061h 04New Kinship#67 - Ron Koustas's Testimony of Staying: Caregiving and Church Ministry in the AIDS CrisisIn LGBT and Christian communities, Ron Koustas has seen a lot. When his longtime partner was diagnosed with AIDS—in the early years before life-saving medications were available—Ron became his partner’s caregiver. As he revisited the Christian faith of his youth, Ron eventually joined and then served in ministries to gay folks in New York City. He’s seen ex-gay churches try to help people “become straight.” He’s seen churches love gay people well, and also poorly. He’s been part of several close “chosen families.” He’s been asked hurtful questions, been defended by church people, been asked to...
2025-08-061h 04
New Kinship#66 - Wrestling with Faith and Sexuality in Japan: Aogu Fujihashi’s Journey | 信仰とセクシュアリティの葛藤：藤橋仰さんの証しIn Japan, where Christians are a minority and “being gay” carries some different cultural meanings than it does in the US, Aogu Fujihashi offers to LGBTQ people the support and discipleship he would have wanted to receive as a teenager. This week, David and TJ talk with Aogu about Japanese Christianity, his journey toward a Side B understanding of faith and sexuality, his spiritual influences (from Augustine to Calvin to Piper and more), and his LGBTQ+ ministry in Tokyo.Also: Japanese bathhouse culture! We learned some things.We appreciate Aogu’s deep care for the church...
2025-07-161h 30New Kinship#66 - Wrestling with Faith and Sexuality in Japan: Aogu Fujihashi’s Journey | 信仰とセクシュアリティの葛藤：藤橋仰さんの証しIn Japan, where Christians are a minority and “being gay” carries some different cultural meanings than it does in the US, Aogu Fujihashi offers to LGBTQ people the support and discipleship he would have wanted to receive as a teenager. This week, David and TJ talk with Aogu about Japanese Christianity, his journey toward a Side B understanding of faith and sexuality, his spiritual influences (from Augustine to Calvin to Piper and more), and his LGBTQ+ ministry in Tokyo.Also: Japanese bathhouse culture! We learned some things.We appreciate Aogu’s deep care for the church...
2025-07-161h 30
New KinshipBONUS - David, Andrew, & Cathie's Reflections on Oriented to LoveAfter hearing about TJ’s previous experience at OTL (Oriented to Love), I, David, felt prompted to fly to the city of brotherly love and experience this dialogue retreat himself. God did more than I could have asked for or imagined in this sacred weekend in conversation with other Christians from diverse perspectives and backgrounds, with purposeful differences across the Side A (progressive views on faith and sexuality) and Side B (historic views on faith and sexuality) divide.I was joined by two other friends from the retreat, Andrew Gordon and Cathie McCoy, who also share Side B...
2025-07-031h 09New KinshipBONUS - David, Andrew, & Cathie's Reflections on Oriented to LoveAfter hearing about TJ’s previous experience at OTL (Oriented to Love), I, David, felt prompted to fly to the city of brotherly love and experience this dialogue retreat himself. God did more than I could have asked for or imagined in this sacred weekend in conversation with other Christians from diverse perspectives and backgrounds, with purposeful differences across the Side A (progressive views on faith and sexuality) and Side B (historic views on faith and sexuality) divide.I was joined by two other friends from the retreat, Andrew Gordon and Cathie McCoy, who also share Side B...
2025-07-031h 09
New Kinship#64 – Grace Thomas: From Pentecostal Pastor to Trans WomanGrace Thomas came out as a transgender woman at age 61—after decades of life as a pastor, husband, and father. That alone makes her story remarkable. But what’s even more compelling is the way she tells it: with gentleness, honesty, and deep care for the people in her life.In this episode, Grace shares how her transition has shaped her relationships with her children and her wife, what it’s been like to remain in conversation with those who don’t fully understand or affirm her, and how her reading of Scripture has changed her approach to paren...
2025-06-041h 27New Kinship#64 – Grace Thomas: From Pentecostal Pastor to Trans WomanGrace Thomas came out as a transgender woman at age 61—after decades of life as a pastor, husband, and father. That alone makes her story remarkable. But what’s even more compelling is the way she tells it: with gentleness, honesty, and deep care for the people in her life.In this episode, Grace shares how her transition has shaped her relationships with her children and her wife, what it’s been like to remain in conversation with those who don’t fully understand or affirm her, and how her reading of Scripture has changed her approach to paren...
2025-06-041h 27
New KinshipBONUS - Mike Vick on Sexuality Politics in American Solidarity PartyIn this bonus episode, we chat with Mike Vick about the American Solidarity Party. We explore the party's foundations, which are influenced by Christian democratic values and Catholic Social Teaching. Their thorough set of ethical platforms grounded in human dignity, the common good, and solidarity (in a way that neither Democratic nor Republican parties are offering!!) would really be a breath of fresh air in American politics!Mike Vick is the founder of the Liberation Caucus in the American Solidarity Party. The episode delves into Mike's personal and political journey, his stance on social and economic issues...
2025-05-211h 02New KinshipBONUS - Mike Vick on Sexuality Politics in American Solidarity PartyIn this bonus episode, we chat with Mike Vick about the American Solidarity Party. We explore the party's foundations, which are influenced by Christian democratic values and Catholic Social Teaching. Their thorough set of ethical platforms grounded in human dignity, the common good, and solidarity (in a way that neither Democratic nor Republican parties are offering!!) would really be a breath of fresh air in American politics!Mike Vick is the founder of the Liberation Caucus in the American Solidarity Party. The episode delves into Mike's personal and political journey, his stance on social and economic issues...
2025-05-211h 02
New Kinship#62 - Evangelicals' Gender Ideas Came from C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy - with Robin Harris and Kathryn WagnerI mean, I don’t know you. Maybe you didn’t grow up in an evangelical Christian subculture. But if you did, there’s a high likelihood that the ideas you absorbed about how men and women behave—and what it even means to be masculine or feminine—were influenced heavily by C.S Lewis’ famous Space Trilogy: Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength.On this fascinating episode, Kathryn Wagner (returning guest and medieval lit scholar) and Robin Harris (writer and incoming seminarian) stopped by to evaluate Lewis’ takes on gender against both more modern fe...
2025-04-231h 48New Kinship#62 - Evangelicals' Gender Ideas Came from C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy - with Robin Harris and Kathryn WagnerI mean, I don’t know you. Maybe you didn’t grow up in an evangelical Christian subculture. But if you did, there’s a high likelihood that the ideas you absorbed about how men and women behave—and what it even means to be masculine or feminine—were influenced heavily by C.S Lewis’ famous Space Trilogy: Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength.On this fascinating episode, Kathryn Wagner (returning guest and medieval lit scholar) and Robin Harris (writer and incoming seminarian) stopped by to evaluate Lewis’ takes on gender against both more modern fe...
2025-04-231h 48
New Kinship#61 - 7 Myths of Side A: On Sex, Love, and Marriage for LGBTQ ChristiansWhat if celibate people are really just repressing their sexuality? Or the Bible writers banned same-sex sex because they couldn’t imagine a modern, egalitarian, consensual marriage?Join TJ (social science researcher) and David (communitarian vibes) as they name 7 “myths” of sex, celibacy, marriage, and love, and talk about LGBTQ flourishing for Christians.Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: #3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on...
2025-04-0255 minNew Kinship#61 - 7 Myths of Side A: On Sex, Love, and Marriage for LGBTQ ChristiansWhat if celibate people are really just repressing their sexuality? Or the Bible writers banned same-sex sex because they couldn’t imagine a modern, egalitarian, consensual marriage?Join TJ (social science researcher) and David (communitarian vibes) as they name 7 “myths” of sex, celibacy, marriage, and love, and talk about LGBTQ flourishing for Christians.Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: #3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on...
2025-04-0255 min
New Kinship#60 - Teresa: On Being Queer Between Two CountriesThis episode contains a brief mention of violent murder.Teresa is a queer woman who grew up in the Philippines and has worked in the U.S. in campus ministry for several years. She brings thoughtful reflections on identities, faith relationships, and family interactions across multiple cultures. We’re honored to be her friend!Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: #3...
2025-03-1253 minNew Kinship#60 - Teresa: On Being Queer Between Two CountriesThis episode contains a brief mention of violent murder.Teresa is a queer woman who grew up in the Philippines and has worked in the U.S. in campus ministry for several years. She brings thoughtful reflections on identities, faith relationships, and family interactions across multiple cultures. We’re honored to be her friend!Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, you might find it helpful to check out episode #3, where we talk through the four “sides”: #3...
2025-03-1253 min
New Kinship#59 - The United Methodist Church Lifts Ban on Gay Marriage: Fragmentation and Autonomy, with Reverend Jerry Kulah (UMC Part 2 of 2)Church unity is hard, folks.The United Methodist Church (UMC) had a momentous global meeting last year (2024), with the major outcome of allowing—or at least not preventing or taking action against—performing same-sex marriages and ordaining non-celibate gay leaders in the church. Methodists around the world have WIDE disagreements on how they even interpret this outcome, much less what they should do about it.This conflict is as much about church unity and governance as it is about LGBTQ rights and people—but of course they’re wrapped up together. You might recognize yourself and your...
2025-02-191h 01New Kinship#59 - The United Methodist Church Lifts Ban on Gay Marriage: Fragmentation and Autonomy, with Reverend Jerry Kulah (UMC Part 2 of 2)Church unity is hard, folks.The United Methodist Church (UMC) had a momentous global meeting last year (2024), with the major outcome of allowing—or at least not preventing or taking action against—performing same-sex marriages and ordaining non-celibate gay leaders in the church. Methodists around the world have WIDE disagreements on how they even interpret this outcome, much less what they should do about it.This conflict is as much about church unity and governance as it is about LGBTQ rights and people—but of course they’re wrapped up together. You might recognize yourself and your...
2025-02-191h 01
New Kinship#57 - Theology of Sex and Ministry at Harvard, with Tyler ParkerTyler Parker weighs in on topics like bisexuality, Christianity at Harvard, liberation theology, and celibate partnerships. A valuable conversation… but that goes without saying. Join us!About Our Guest:Tyler Parker is a campus minister at Harvard College, where he studied government and filmmaking during his undergraduate studies. He is a follower of Jesus, is bisexual, and is filled with a deep passion for LGBTQ+ people to experience the lives of flourishing that are borne out of radical encounters with the love of Christ. He also helps lead a growing Revoice chapter in the Greater Bo...
2025-01-221h 35New Kinship#57 - Theology of Sex and Ministry at Harvard, with Tyler ParkerTyler Parker weighs in on topics like bisexuality, Christianity at Harvard, liberation theology, and celibate partnerships. A valuable conversation… but that goes without saying. Join us!About Our Guest:Tyler Parker is a campus minister at Harvard College, where he studied government and filmmaking during his undergraduate studies. He is a follower of Jesus, is bisexual, and is filled with a deep passion for LGBTQ+ people to experience the lives of flourishing that are borne out of radical encounters with the love of Christ. He also helps lead a growing Revoice chapter in the Greater Bo...
2025-01-221h 35
New Kinship#56 - Stephen Shim’s B-sian Story: Being Gay, Korean-Canadian, and a Side B ChristianNote: This episode includes a brief mention of suicide and community response to it.As the child of a Korean pastor and raised in North America, Stephen Shim has been wrestling with coming to terms with being, in his words, “a minority of a minority of a minority”—a gay, Korean Christian. Stephen is a leader in the “B-sian” group—a community of Asian, Side B Christians that developed from the Revoice annual conference.Now in his late 30s, Stephen has continued to walk down the path of his life with a bit more peace and a bit le...
2025-01-011h 35New Kinship#56 - Stephen Shim’s B-sian Story: Being Gay, Korean-Canadian, and a Side B ChristianNote: This episode includes a brief mention of suicide and community response to it.As the child of a Korean pastor and raised in North America, Stephen Shim has been wrestling with coming to terms with being, in his words, “a minority of a minority of a minority”—a gay, Korean Christian. Stephen is a leader in the “B-sian” group—a community of Asian, Side B Christians that developed from the Revoice annual conference.Now in his late 30s, Stephen has continued to walk down the path of his life with a bit more peace and a bit le...
2025-01-011h 35
New Kinship#55 - Life on Side B: The Final Season, with Josh and Ashley (Crossover Episode)If you’ve never heard of Life on Side B—the podcast that in many ways inspired this one—today is your day! We interviewed Josh and Ashley on their ending season, where Side B could evolve, and how LoSB podcast was almost named “Unicorns for Jesus”.And THEN…head on over to Life on Side B to listen to David and TJ’s reflections on interviewing people with diverse views and where Side B conversations are evolving. Listen to the other half of this episode here: www.lifeonsideb.com/episodes/episode/1d868a02/s6e1-or-tj-and-david-on-new-kinship-and-the-future-of-side-b-crossover-episodeComments...
2024-12-1136 minNew Kinship#55 - Life on Side B: The Final Season, with Josh and Ashley (Crossover Episode)If you’ve never heard of Life on Side B—the podcast that in many ways inspired this one—today is your day! We interviewed Josh and Ashley on their ending season, where Side B could evolve, and how LoSB podcast was almost named “Unicorns for Jesus”.And THEN…head on over to Life on Side B to listen to David and TJ’s reflections on interviewing people with diverse views and where Side B conversations are evolving. Listen to the other half of this episode here: www.lifeonsideb.com/episodes/episode/1d868a02/s6e1-or-tj-and-david-on-new-kinship-and-the-future-of-side-b-crossover-episodeComments...
2024-12-1136 min
New Kinship#54 - Side B & Side X in Dialogue: With Jason Thompson from Portland FellowshipJason Thompson leads Portland Fellowship, a Christian organization pursuing freedom from “homosexuality and transgender confusion” through Christ. In our terms, Jason’s org is “Side X” and we are “Side B”. Jason himself has thought a bit about the various positions in the faith + sexuality debate, and he has his own description of four “sides”. Between these groupings are some seemingly wide gaps in how we, as Christians, think about sexual orientation, restoration, brokenness, and identities… tough stuff, but we are grateful for Jason’s willingness to talk about our differences as Christians.About Our Guest: Jason Thompson experienced u...
2024-11-201h 26New Kinship#54 - Side B & Side X in Dialogue: With Jason Thompson from Portland FellowshipJason Thompson leads Portland Fellowship, a Christian organization pursuing freedom from “homosexuality and transgender confusion” through Christ. In our terms, Jason’s org is “Side X” and we are “Side B”. Jason himself has thought a bit about the various positions in the faith + sexuality debate, and he has his own description of four “sides”. Between these groupings are some seemingly wide gaps in how we, as Christians, think about sexual orientation, restoration, brokenness, and identities… tough stuff, but we are grateful for Jason’s willingness to talk about our differences as Christians.About Our Guest: Jason Thompson experienced u...
2024-11-201h 26
New Kinship#53 - Conversion Therapy's Legacy with Simon Kent Fung (”Dear Alana”)Content warning: This episode includes discussions of suicidality.Simon Kent Fung is the creator and host of Dear Alana, a limited series podcast telling the story of Alana Chen, a devoutly Catholic young woman who wrestled with same-sex attraction alongside her faith before taking her own life in 2019. Simon found that Alana's journey with the Catholic faith and conversion therapies paralleled his own story in notable ways. On this episode, we talked with Simon about his experience of conversion therapy or “reparative therapy” for LGBTQ Christian people, the expectations and harms that accompany it, and what a heal...
2024-10-301h 19New Kinship#53 - Conversion Therapy's Legacy with Simon Kent Fung (”Dear Alana”)Content warning: This episode includes discussions of suicidality.Simon Kent Fung is the creator and host of Dear Alana, a limited series podcast telling the story of Alana Chen, a devoutly Catholic young woman who wrestled with same-sex attraction alongside her faith before taking her own life in 2019. Simon found that Alana's journey with the Catholic faith and conversion therapies paralleled his own story in notable ways. On this episode, we talked with Simon about his experience of conversion therapy or “reparative therapy” for LGBTQ Christian people, the expectations and harms that accompany it, and what a heal...
2024-10-301h 19
New KinshipBONUS - Why “New Kinship”?Our reasons for changing our name. Including: discussions of kinship, old and new commandments, belonging, mutual solidarity, and more.—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, or support!Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship—★ CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★ Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe
2024-10-2311 minNew KinshipBONUS - Why “New Kinship”?Our reasons for changing our name. Including: discussions of kinship, old and new commandments, belonging, mutual solidarity, and more.—★ Send us feedback, questions, comments, or support!Email: communionandshalom@gmail.com | Instagram: @newkinship | Substack: @newkinship | Patreon: @newkinship—★ CreditsCreators and Hosts: David Frank, TJ Espinoza | Audio Engineer: Carl Swenson, carlswensonmusic.com | Podcast Manager: Elena F. | Graphic Designer: Gavin Popken, gavinpopkenart.com ★ Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe
2024-10-2311 min
New Kinship#52 - Affectionate towards Christ: A Journey of Faith with Pastor ShalomPastor Shalom is a multi-national Nigerian in a mixed-orientation marriage now in pastoral ministry. She has a profound journey of faith, marriage, and understanding her sexual identity. We were moved by her story and the strength of her love for God and others, so we asked her to share it with you all. Whether you see yourself in her story or are listening to learn about someone whose journey is very different from your own—we hope it’s an encouragement to you, too!★ About Our GuestPastor Shalom Liddick was born in Nigeria and spent...
2024-10-091h 22New Kinship#52 - Affectionate towards Christ: A Journey of Faith with Pastor ShalomPastor Shalom is a multi-national Nigerian in a mixed-orientation marriage now in pastoral ministry. She has a profound journey of faith, marriage, and understanding her sexual identity. We were moved by her story and the strength of her love for God and others, so we asked her to share it with you all. Whether you see yourself in her story or are listening to learn about someone whose journey is very different from your own—we hope it’s an encouragement to you, too!★ About Our GuestPastor Shalom Liddick was born in Nigeria and spent...
2024-10-091h 22
New Kinship#51 - Erotic Theology for Church Renewal—A Conversation with David BennettDavid Bennett has a lot to say about erotic relationships with God—but it’s probably not what you think! As a former atheistic gay activist now turned celibate gay theologian and follower of Jesus, David’s reflections on Christian sexuality and discipleship are both personal and deeply informed by Christian historical tradition. David sat down with TJ and David Frank to talk about a theology of desire, Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to today, Side B activism, and practical discipleship for Christians today. Join us!Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side...
2024-09-181h 27New Kinship#51 - Erotic Theology for Church Renewal—A Conversation with David BennettDavid Bennett has a lot to say about erotic relationships with God—but it’s probably not what you think! As a former atheistic gay activist now turned celibate gay theologian and follower of Jesus, David’s reflections on Christian sexuality and discipleship are both personal and deeply informed by Christian historical tradition. David sat down with TJ and David Frank to talk about a theology of desire, Christian thinkers from Augustine to Aquinas to today, Side B activism, and practical discipleship for Christians today. Join us!Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side...
2024-09-181h 27
New Kinship#50 - (Re)Discovering Kinship Beyond Marriage: Revoice '24Announcement: Hey ya’ll! We have a new podcast name! Welcome to New Kinship, formerly known as Communion and Shalom. We felt it was time for a more specifically focused name, with the same goal of focusing on the ways we belong to each other as Christians, as brothers and sisters, in the complexities of sexuality, ethnicity, and living in community. Join us as we wade into those complexities with people we both agree and disagree with.For our fiftieth episode (!), we’re sharing a recording from a workshop we gave at Revoice 2024 this year (a conference and...
2024-08-281h 11New Kinship#50 - (Re)Discovering Kinship Beyond Marriage: Revoice '24Announcement: Hey ya’ll! We have a new podcast name! Welcome to New Kinship, formerly known as Communion and Shalom. We felt it was time for a more specifically focused name, with the same goal of focusing on the ways we belong to each other as Christians, as brothers and sisters, in the complexities of sexuality, ethnicity, and living in community. Join us as we wade into those complexities with people we both agree and disagree with.For our fiftieth episode (!), we’re sharing a recording from a workshop we gave at Revoice 2024 this year (a conference and...
2024-08-281h 11
New Kinship#49 - Just Gender: Preliminary Reflections on Trans ExperiencesIt’s hard to know how to approach a topic that is simultaneously so personal and so full of theological implications. We, David Frank and TJ Espinoza, open up about our developing thoughts on trans experiences as it relates to the complexities of gender as both a social construct and part of biblical theology. In light of this, how might Christians consider ideas around third genders? How should they address violence against trans individuals? Are chosen pronouns an opportunity to manifest neighborliness or courage? Listen in as we try to lay some foundations, as we begin to wade into th...
2024-08-0755 minNew Kinship#49 - Just Gender: Preliminary Reflections on Trans ExperiencesIt’s hard to know how to approach a topic that is simultaneously so personal and so full of theological implications. We, David Frank and TJ Espinoza, open up about our developing thoughts on trans experiences as it relates to the complexities of gender as both a social construct and part of biblical theology. In light of this, how might Christians consider ideas around third genders? How should they address violence against trans individuals? Are chosen pronouns an opportunity to manifest neighborliness or courage? Listen in as we try to lay some foundations, as we begin to wade into th...
2024-08-0755 min
New Kinship#48 - What Is Transformation? with Agape First MinistriesTransformation is a tricky word in Christian circles, particularly when we’re talking about sexuality. What does it mean to be “transformed”? For a gay man, does it mean “no longer gay”? And what does that mean??We talked with Nate Oyloe and Luca Jo Groppoli from Agape First Ministries, an organization dedicated to discipling and seeking God’s transformation. In our framing on this podcast, we would call their organization “side X”—that is, generally pursuing and seeing the good in people becoming “ex gay.” Since this isn’t a position we (David and TJ) hold, we were eager to have a...
2024-07-171h 26New Kinship#48 - What Is Transformation? with Agape First MinistriesTransformation is a tricky word in Christian circles, particularly when we’re talking about sexuality. What does it mean to be “transformed”? For a gay man, does it mean “no longer gay”? And what does that mean??We talked with Nate Oyloe and Luca Jo Groppoli from Agape First Ministries, an organization dedicated to discipling and seeking God’s transformation. In our framing on this podcast, we would call their organization “side X”—that is, generally pursuing and seeing the good in people becoming “ex gay.” Since this isn’t a position we (David and TJ) hold, we were eager to have a...
2024-07-171h 26
New KinshipBonus: Revoice '24 in ReviewJoin us for a special in-person episode where we, TJ and David, share highlights and insights from our time at the Revoice Conference. We discuss the conference's mission, our personal experiences, and key takeaways on fostering community and kinship within the church. Honestly, words utterly fail to express all that Revoice meant for us and the other 500+ who attended.Highlights mentioned:* Times of Worship * Worship Leader Wes* Misty Irons and David Bennet* Affinity Groups* Breakout engagement* Hospitality and overall conference schedule* Connecting with...
2024-07-0822 minNew KinshipBonus: Revoice '24 in ReviewJoin us for a special in-person episode where we, TJ and David, share highlights and insights from our time at the Revoice Conference. We discuss the conference's mission, our personal experiences, and key takeaways on fostering community and kinship within the church. Honestly, words utterly fail to express all that Revoice meant for us and the other 500+ who attended.Highlights mentioned:* Times of Worship * Worship Leader Wes* Misty Irons and David Bennet* Affinity Groups* Breakout engagement* Hospitality and overall conference schedule* Connecting with...
2024-07-0822 min
New Kinship#47 - Is the Bible Sex Positive?Coming in hot, folks… David Frank and TJ Espinoza reflect on sex positivity and how they see parts of the Christian Bible interacting with sexual desire, goodness, transcendence, and meaning. There’s nothing simple about the relationships between sex, marriage, having kids, pleasure, and our spiritual callings. But in those tensions, we also see goodness and fruitfulness. We hope that this discussion prompts more thinking for you all on what a comprehensive Christian sexual ethic can look like. See also: David's writing: Contemplative Prayer on Sex and Its Future https://newkinship.substack.com/p/a-prayer-of-contemplation-on-sexThis episode incl...
2024-06-261h 00New Kinship#47 - Is the Bible Sex Positive?Coming in hot, folks… David Frank and TJ Espinoza reflect on sex positivity and how they see parts of the Christian Bible interacting with sexual desire, goodness, transcendence, and meaning. There’s nothing simple about the relationships between sex, marriage, having kids, pleasure, and our spiritual callings. But in those tensions, we also see goodness and fruitfulness. We hope that this discussion prompts more thinking for you all on what a comprehensive Christian sexual ethic can look like. See also: David's writing: Contemplative Prayer on Sex and Its Future https://newkinship.substack.com/p/a-prayer-of-contemplation-on-sexThis episode incl...
2024-06-261h 00
New Kinship#46 - Hot Takes from Greg Coles on Being Single, Gay, and ChristianComing right up, some hot takes from Greg Coles on:* Why would you call yourself gay if you’re a Christian? That’s not your identity…* Wouldn’t it be better if you got married (to someone of the opposite sex)?* How do I talk to [person] about [LGBTQ sexuality topic we disagree on]?If you are gay and Christian, or know someone who’s gay and a Christian, somebody in your life is asking these questions, and a whole lot more. This episode is for you, for sharing, and for further di...
2024-06-0558 minNew Kinship#46 - Hot Takes from Greg Coles on Being Single, Gay, and ChristianComing right up, some hot takes from Greg Coles on:* Why would you call yourself gay if you’re a Christian? That’s not your identity…* Wouldn’t it be better if you got married (to someone of the opposite sex)?* How do I talk to [person] about [LGBTQ sexuality topic we disagree on]?If you are gay and Christian, or know someone who’s gay and a Christian, somebody in your life is asking these questions, and a whole lot more. This episode is for you, for sharing, and for further di...
2024-06-0558 min
New Kinship#45 - Celibate, Yet Side A: Tim Otto on Christian Unity and Gay MarriageTim Otto is a man of intentional commitments: he lives in intentional Christian community; he pastors a church in San Francisco; he’s also gay and celibate, while still affirming gay marriage (Side A). Tim talked with co-hosts TJ and David Frank about his book Oriented to Faith, compassionate approaches, “third way” communities and “disputable” theological differences, celibate partnerships, and the importance of close community living.Tim was a kind and engaging dialogue partner and we loved having this conversation with him! No matter where you land on faith and sexuality topics, we hope our discussion ministers to you als...
2024-05-151h 22New Kinship#45 - Celibate, Yet Side A: Tim Otto on Christian Unity and Gay MarriageTim Otto is a man of intentional commitments: he lives in intentional Christian community; he pastors a church in San Francisco; he’s also gay and celibate, while still affirming gay marriage (Side A). Tim talked with co-hosts TJ and David Frank about his book Oriented to Faith, compassionate approaches, “third way” communities and “disputable” theological differences, celibate partnerships, and the importance of close community living.Tim was a kind and engaging dialogue partner and we loved having this conversation with him! No matter where you land on faith and sexuality topics, we hope our discussion ministers to you als...
2024-05-151h 22
New Kinship#44 - On Finding and Bringing Hope, with Nate Collins from RevoiceNate Collins has been part of the Christian conversation around faith and sexuality for decades. He founded Revoice, a conference and ministry for queer/same-sex-attracted Christians, and he’s written two books on the topic. Also, Nate is himself gay or same-sex-attracted and in a mixed-orientation marriage. We are looking forward to sharing Nate’s and Revoice’s story with you, and also encouraging you to attend the Revoice conference with us this summer!PS: at Revoice2024, come visit TJ and David at our workshop on (Re)discovering Kinship beyond Marriage. We would love to talk to you!
2024-04-241h 14New Kinship#44 - On Finding and Bringing Hope, with Nate Collins from RevoiceNate Collins has been part of the Christian conversation around faith and sexuality for decades. He founded Revoice, a conference and ministry for queer/same-sex-attracted Christians, and he’s written two books on the topic. Also, Nate is himself gay or same-sex-attracted and in a mixed-orientation marriage. We are looking forward to sharing Nate’s and Revoice’s story with you, and also encouraging you to attend the Revoice conference with us this summer!PS: at Revoice2024, come visit TJ and David at our workshop on (Re)discovering Kinship beyond Marriage. We would love to talk to you!
2024-04-241h 14
New Kinship#42 - Our Food Is Your Food: An Ode to Common Pantry, with Hannah HilerLet’s talk about common pantry, ya’ll. Today we’re taking on the nitty gritty details of sharing food with people, usually those you live with. Why on earth does this even need to be talked about?Well, those of you in a “traditional” couple-with-children household probably already share food (often whether or not you want to). But any of you living alone or with other single roommates may find sharing food with others appalling, unappealing, or just plain impossible.Friend of the podcast Hannah Hiler is here to tell you differently! David talks with Hanna...
2024-03-1357 minNew Kinship#42 - Our Food Is Your Food: An Ode to Common Pantry, with Hannah HilerLet’s talk about common pantry, ya’ll. Today we’re taking on the nitty gritty details of sharing food with people, usually those you live with. Why on earth does this even need to be talked about?Well, those of you in a “traditional” couple-with-children household probably already share food (often whether or not you want to). But any of you living alone or with other single roommates may find sharing food with others appalling, unappealing, or just plain impossible.Friend of the podcast Hannah Hiler is here to tell you differently! David talks with Hanna...
2024-03-1357 min
New Kinship#41 - Unexpected Shifts: Josh’s Story of Prayer, Healing, and AttractionDavid’s friend Josh had a pretty radical experience of “healing”…Supernatural healing is always a complex topic, and with sexual attraction this continues to prove true. Does orientation change? Should we pray for it to change? Josh used to experience same-sex sexual attraction, and through some unusual events, he is also increasingly attracted to women. We offer his story as a provoking thought piece as we try to make sense of how God may work in each of our lives.Note: This episode briefly includes content suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advis...
2024-02-2154 minNew Kinship#41 - Unexpected Shifts: Josh’s Story of Prayer, Healing, and AttractionDavid’s friend Josh had a pretty radical experience of “healing”…Supernatural healing is always a complex topic, and with sexual attraction this continues to prove true. Does orientation change? Should we pray for it to change? Josh used to experience same-sex sexual attraction, and through some unusual events, he is also increasingly attracted to women. We offer his story as a provoking thought piece as we try to make sense of how God may work in each of our lives.Note: This episode briefly includes content suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advis...
2024-02-2154 min
New Kinship#40 - 3 Friends’ Journeys | Advocating for Christian LGBTQ ConversationsSchelli Cronk, Becky Hestness, and Kim Klayum work together at Transform MN, equipping Christian leaders across Minnesota to engage complex issues from a biblical perspective. They are also good friends who have personally and professionally been challenged over time to grow their love and care for LGBTQ friends and family. We are inspired by their deep convictions and equally deep support for LGBTQ folks. We got to hear a bit of their stories and how God’s been working through them in their communities.__________Timestamps(01:17) Introducing Transform MN...
2024-01-3150 minNew Kinship#40 - 3 Friends’ Journeys | Advocating for Christian LGBTQ ConversationsSchelli Cronk, Becky Hestness, and Kim Klayum work together at Transform MN, equipping Christian leaders across Minnesota to engage complex issues from a biblical perspective. They are also good friends who have personally and professionally been challenged over time to grow their love and care for LGBTQ friends and family. We are inspired by their deep convictions and equally deep support for LGBTQ folks. We got to hear a bit of their stories and how God’s been working through them in their communities.__________Timestamps(01:17) Introducing Transform MN...
2024-01-3150 min
New Kinship#39 - Building Households and Communities Together: A Workshop with David and Elena (Recorded Live at Revoice 2023)David Frank (you know him) and Elena (podcast manager) gave a workshop talk at Revoice 2023. It was pretty great, and also, predictably, hit-or-miss with sound quality. Enjoy!__________Links and ReferencesThe Life We’re Looking For: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World by Andy Crouch (publisher’s link)Our workshop presentation: [Link to Google presentation]Our worksheet and resources handout: [Link to Google doc]__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→Sharing feedback or questions! www.podp...
2024-01-1051 minNew Kinship#39 - Building Households and Communities Together: A Workshop with David and Elena (Recorded Live at Revoice 2023)David Frank (you know him) and Elena (podcast manager) gave a workshop talk at Revoice 2023. It was pretty great, and also, predictably, hit-or-miss with sound quality. Enjoy!__________Links and ReferencesThe Life We’re Looking For: Reclaiming Relationship in a Technological World by Andy Crouch (publisher’s link)Our workshop presentation: [Link to Google presentation]Our worksheet and resources handout: [Link to Google doc]__________If you like this podcast, please consider…→Sharing feedback or questions! www.podp...
2024-01-1051 min
New Kinship#38 - Economics for Local Community with Joseph Pierce: Why Small Is Still BeautifulJoseph Pearce’s book Small Is Still Beautiful is a compelling spotlight on the "well-kept secret" of economist E. F. Schumacher. David Frank and Brendan Johnson (from episode 30) talked with Joseph about small localism versus globalism, cooperatives and sharing versus capitalist individualism, and the like. Join us for a delightful conversation around the commons, community, and collaborative flourishing.About Our GuestA native of England, Joseph Pearce is the internationally acclaimed author of many books, which include bestsellers such as The Quest for Shakespeare, Tolkien: Man and Myth, The Unmasking of Oscar Wilde, C...
2023-12-2036 minNew Kinship#38 - Economics for Local Community with Joseph Pierce: Why Small Is Still BeautifulJoseph Pearce’s book Small Is Still Beautiful is a compelling spotlight on the "well-kept secret" of economist E. F. Schumacher. David Frank and Brendan Johnson (from episode 30) talked with Joseph about small localism versus globalism, cooperatives and sharing versus capitalist individualism, and the like. Join us for a delightful conversation around the commons, community, and collaborative flourishing.About Our GuestA native of England, Joseph Pearce is the internationally acclaimed author of many books, which include bestsellers such as The Quest for Shakespeare, Tolkien: Man and Myth, The Unmasking of Oscar Wilde, C...
2023-12-2036 min
New Kinship#37 - Judge Daniel Quinan: The Telos of Sex and (Catholic) MarriageCatholic canon lawyer Daniel Quinan works for the Catholic church, not the state legal system, reviewing marriage annullment cases for the Catholic Archdiocese. If you’re Catholic, maybe you’re familiar with this system. If you’re not, it may be totally new to you. We wanted to hear from Daniel on how Catholic understandings of justice, catechism, and canon law directly impact treatment of those in the church who are LGBT/queer/same-sex attracted. David and TJ talk with Daniel about marriage, procreation, contraception, sexual intercourse, and a bunch of other topics that are legal and technical and someho...
2023-11-291h 32New Kinship#37 - Judge Daniel Quinan: The Telos of Sex and (Catholic) MarriageCatholic canon lawyer Daniel Quinan works for the Catholic church, not the state legal system, reviewing marriage annullment cases for the Catholic Archdiocese. If you’re Catholic, maybe you’re familiar with this system. If you’re not, it may be totally new to you. We wanted to hear from Daniel on how Catholic understandings of justice, catechism, and canon law directly impact treatment of those in the church who are LGBT/queer/same-sex attracted. David and TJ talk with Daniel about marriage, procreation, contraception, sexual intercourse, and a bunch of other topics that are legal and technical and someho...
2023-11-291h 32
New Kinship#35 - Marco Casanova on Integration, Healing, and OrientationMarco Casanova is a Catholic leader of a ministry called Living Waters, helping people pursue healing, often around sexuality. TJ and David had a very engaging talk with Marco about his take on homosexuality/same-sex attraction, marriage and singleness, Pope John Paul II, and the work of healing and transformation. Within the Christian sexuality conversation, Marco’s approach might be called “Side X”, although he differs from the approach of older “ex-gay” ministries. Join us in listening and learning from our guest as we seek to understand his story and perspective.About Our Guest:Marco Ca...
2023-10-201h 31New Kinship#35 - Marco Casanova on Integration, Healing, and OrientationMarco Casanova is a Catholic leader of a ministry called Living Waters, helping people pursue healing, often around sexuality. TJ and David had a very engaging talk with Marco about his take on homosexuality/same-sex attraction, marriage and singleness, Pope John Paul II, and the work of healing and transformation. Within the Christian sexuality conversation, Marco’s approach might be called “Side X”, although he differs from the approach of older “ex-gay” ministries. Join us in listening and learning from our guest as we seek to understand his story and perspective.About Our Guest:Marco Ca...
2023-10-201h 31
New Kinship#34 - Interview with a Longstanding Side B Ally, Misty IronsMisty Irons has been part of the faith and sexuality conversation for over 20 years. We were honored to talk to her about her journey with Side B, being an ally to queer people, and what an “accommodationist” view of Side A could look like. We’re grateful for her perspective and her intense care and thoughtfulness on topics of faith and sexuality.About Our Guest:Misty Irons is a friend of LGBTQ Christians and has served this community as a conference speaker, seminar leader, and podcast guest, representing a straight-ally perspective. For 16 years she ma...
2023-09-271h 03New Kinship#34 - Interview with a Longstanding Side B Ally, Misty IronsMisty Irons has been part of the faith and sexuality conversation for over 20 years. We were honored to talk to her about her journey with Side B, being an ally to queer people, and what an “accommodationist” view of Side A could look like. We’re grateful for her perspective and her intense care and thoughtfulness on topics of faith and sexuality.About Our Guest:Misty Irons is a friend of LGBTQ Christians and has served this community as a conference speaker, seminar leader, and podcast guest, representing a straight-ally perspective. For 16 years she ma...
2023-09-271h 03
New Kinship#32 - TJ Participated in an “Oriented to Love” Dialogue. Here Are His ThoughtsIn the spring, TJ attended a small dialogue, Oriented to Love (OTL), sponsored by the Christians for Social Action. OTL hosts thoughtful conversations across difference, specifically among Christians, both queer and straight, who take on different beliefs and positions on questions of gender, sexuality, and how those topics interact with their faith. It’s a rare opportunity when someone can hold space for people to meet, care well, listen carefully, and share their stories honestly. Oriented to Love aims not to change anyone’s mind, but to facilitate listening and thoughtful dialogue among participants.In this epis...
2023-08-161h 14New Kinship#32 - TJ Participated in an “Oriented to Love” Dialogue. Here Are His ThoughtsIn the spring, TJ attended a small dialogue, Oriented to Love (OTL), sponsored by the Christians for Social Action. OTL hosts thoughtful conversations across difference, specifically among Christians, both queer and straight, who take on different beliefs and positions on questions of gender, sexuality, and how those topics interact with their faith. It’s a rare opportunity when someone can hold space for people to meet, care well, listen carefully, and share their stories honestly. Oriented to Love aims not to change anyone’s mind, but to facilitate listening and thoughtful dialogue among participants.In this epis...
2023-08-161h 14
New Kinship#30 - Imagining the Commons with Brendan JohnsonIf God calls us to seek the common good of our communities—what does that mean in real life? The commons, a shared community place or resource, is a critical idea in this conversation. Even better: it’s not just an idea; it’s been practiced around the globe in many times and places. David Frank talks with friend and fellow housemate Brendan Johnson about the ways we could start thinking differently—really differently—about our public, private, and shared resources.Our goal is to inspire you to imagine new ways of flourishing and to open the conver...
2023-07-051h 05New Kinship#30 - Imagining the Commons with Brendan JohnsonIf God calls us to seek the common good of our communities—what does that mean in real life? The commons, a shared community place or resource, is a critical idea in this conversation. Even better: it’s not just an idea; it’s been practiced around the globe in many times and places. David Frank talks with friend and fellow housemate Brendan Johnson about the ways we could start thinking differently—really differently—about our public, private, and shared resources.Our goal is to inspire you to imagine new ways of flourishing and to open the conver...
2023-07-051h 05
New Kinship#29 - Weigh and Consider the World: Joel Carini on Nature, Truth, and Side BWe (TJ and David) first connected with philosopher Joel Carini from a few of his articles on a reformed theology of same-sex attraction. In this episode, Joel joined us for a conversation around various Christian contexts, nature and grace, Side B and identity language, and, of course, philosophy. We appreciate Joel’s care and thoughtfulness around his work, and we hope (whether you agree with him or not) you’ll find his approach worth engaging!—Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re...
2023-06-141h 40New Kinship#29 - Weigh and Consider the World: Joel Carini on Nature, Truth, and Side BWe (TJ and David) first connected with philosopher Joel Carini from a few of his articles on a reformed theology of same-sex attraction. In this episode, Joel joined us for a conversation around various Christian contexts, nature and grace, Side B and identity language, and, of course, philosophy. We appreciate Joel’s care and thoughtfulness around his work, and we hope (whether you agree with him or not) you’ll find his approach worth engaging!—Note: This episode uses the terms “Side A” and “Side B” (and X, Y) as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re...
2023-06-141h 40
New Kinship#28 - Ariel on Being a Friend to Side BAriel is a friend of this podcast and—more importantly—a friend to many humans, both queer and straight. We have seen her intuitive care and fierce kindness shine in her support of queer friends and family. We asked her to share some wisdom with us all!__________Timestamps(02:23) Growing up in evangelical Christianity with queer friends(11:46) The goodness of diversity in communities(14:59) Why not use the word "ally"? Or "advocate"?(21:20) The church has struggled to keep up with culture...and could it e...
2023-05-2449 minNew Kinship#28 - Ariel on Being a Friend to Side BAriel is a friend of this podcast and—more importantly—a friend to many humans, both queer and straight. We have seen her intuitive care and fierce kindness shine in her support of queer friends and family. We asked her to share some wisdom with us all!__________Timestamps(02:23) Growing up in evangelical Christianity with queer friends(11:46) The goodness of diversity in communities(14:59) Why not use the word "ally"? Or "advocate"?(21:20) The church has struggled to keep up with culture...and could it e...
2023-05-2449 min
New Kinship#27 - A Wager Like Pascal's: Paul-Anthony Turner on Side A SexualityPaul-Anthony Turner is a gay Christian philosopher and pastor who used to be Side B (holding a traditional Christian sexual ethic of chastity in opposite-sex marriage or a celibate vocation) and is now Side A (affirming same-sex marriage). He takes TJ through his reasoning and philosophy for how he arrives at a Side A position. Preview: He likes Kant a LOT.One of our main goals with Communion & Shalom is to bring people who believe differently than we do, and differently than each other, into conversation on difficult topics like Christian sexuality. Wherever you find yourself...
2023-05-031h 52New Kinship#27 - A Wager Like Pascal's: Paul-Anthony Turner on Side A SexualityPaul-Anthony Turner is a gay Christian philosopher and pastor who used to be Side B (holding a traditional Christian sexual ethic of chastity in opposite-sex marriage or a celibate vocation) and is now Side A (affirming same-sex marriage). He takes TJ through his reasoning and philosophy for how he arrives at a Side A position. Preview: He likes Kant a LOT.One of our main goals with Communion & Shalom is to bring people who believe differently than we do, and differently than each other, into conversation on difficult topics like Christian sexuality. Wherever you find yourself...
2023-05-031h 52
New Kinship#26 - Make Sides Not War: Why the “Sides” Framework Still Supports the Sexuality ConversationWithin Christian circles on the faith and sexuality, we (especially Side B people) spend a lot of time talking about different “sides” and where we stand. Some people think we shouldn’t even talk about sides at all. While there may be merit to some of their objections, we still think it’s a valuable way of framing things. This episode explains why we keep using “Side A” and “Side B”. We might give you some new ideas, might change your mind… or it might just give you more things to argue about with us. We welcome all of those!...
2023-04-1250 minNew Kinship#26 - Make Sides Not War: Why the “Sides” Framework Still Supports the Sexuality ConversationWithin Christian circles on the faith and sexuality, we (especially Side B people) spend a lot of time talking about different “sides” and where we stand. Some people think we shouldn’t even talk about sides at all. While there may be merit to some of their objections, we still think it’s a valuable way of framing things. This episode explains why we keep using “Side A” and “Side B”. We might give you some new ideas, might change your mind… or it might just give you more things to argue about with us. We welcome all of those!...
2023-04-1250 min
New Kinship#25 - Ethnicity: Where Do We Come From? Why Does It Matter?Ethnicity, race, nationalism… Just bringing up those words can raise the temperature of the room. These topics intersect and affect our daily lives in ways that are so important—how do we, as Christians, engage these topics well?We share some initial thoughts on ethnicity and on why it can be important to focus on it, or de-emphasize it, in our daily lives.We welcome your input and sharpening of these ideas, as always. Thanks for listening!__________Timestamps(04:33) Defining “ethnicity”(08:28) David’s ethnic b...
2023-03-2256 minNew Kinship#25 - Ethnicity: Where Do We Come From? Why Does It Matter?Ethnicity, race, nationalism… Just bringing up those words can raise the temperature of the room. These topics intersect and affect our daily lives in ways that are so important—how do we, as Christians, engage these topics well?We share some initial thoughts on ethnicity and on why it can be important to focus on it, or de-emphasize it, in our daily lives.We welcome your input and sharpening of these ideas, as always. Thanks for listening!__________Timestamps(04:33) Defining “ethnicity”(08:28) David’s ethnic b...
2023-03-2256 min
New Kinship#24 - African Voices: Mwendia Shares on Same-Sex Attraction in KenyaWe are so excited to welcome Mwendia Steve Kiengu to the podcast as we begin highlighting perspectives from Africa!Mwendia is a seminary student in Kenya who’s grown up with same-sex attraction. He talks with TJ about the African cultural dynamics they’ve both experienced around same-sex attraction—how people talk about it, advice they give, and the challenges that Christians with same-sex attractions face.We value Mwendia’s perspective on sexuality, both for Africans engaging in the conversation and for global listeners expanding their knowledge of the world.—...
2023-03-011h 12New Kinship#24 - African Voices: Mwendia Shares on Same-Sex Attraction in KenyaWe are so excited to welcome Mwendia Steve Kiengu to the podcast as we begin highlighting perspectives from Africa!Mwendia is a seminary student in Kenya who’s grown up with same-sex attraction. He talks with TJ about the African cultural dynamics they’ve both experienced around same-sex attraction—how people talk about it, advice they give, and the challenges that Christians with same-sex attractions face.We value Mwendia’s perspective on sexuality, both for Africans engaging in the conversation and for global listeners expanding their knowledge of the world.—...
2023-03-011h 12
New Kinship#23 - Side B Response to Side A: Our 2022 GuestsWe (David and TJ) are Side B, and we care about engaging people across differences. Last year we interviewed three Side A folks from different perspectives:#12 - JP’s Story: Moving Away from Side B#13 - Ordained, Gay, and Seeking Liberation: A Chat with Rev. Tyler Sit#17 - Giacomo Sanfilippo on the Asceticism of Same-Sex LoveIn January, we got the chance to sit down together and reflect on those three interviews. We anticipate continued conversations with Side A friends, and we don’t want this to be the end of the discussion—please...
2023-02-081h 04New Kinship#23 - Side B Response to Side A: Our 2022 GuestsWe (David and TJ) are Side B, and we care about engaging people across differences. Last year we interviewed three Side A folks from different perspectives:#12 - JP’s Story: Moving Away from Side B#13 - Ordained, Gay, and Seeking Liberation: A Chat with Rev. Tyler Sit#17 - Giacomo Sanfilippo on the Asceticism of Same-Sex LoveIn January, we got the chance to sit down together and reflect on those three interviews. We anticipate continued conversations with Side A friends, and we don’t want this to be the end of the discussion—please...
2023-02-081h 04
New Kinship#13 - Ordained, Gay, and Seeking Liberation: A Chat with Rev. Tyler SitDavid and TJ sit down with Rev. Tyler Sit of New City Church in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA. Tyler represents a “Side A” pastoral perspective as an ordained minister for the United Methodist Church in the US. In this wide-ranging conversation, David and TJ to seek to understand Tyler's perspective, his understanding of Side B, and his take on Side A hermeneutics, particularly those centered in liberation theologies. Tyler was an excellent conversation partner in this. We encourage our listeners to listen closely to understand one Side A perspective more carefully, and consider how a Side B perspective migh...
2022-08-241h 51New Kinship#13 - Ordained, Gay, and Seeking Liberation: A Chat with Rev. Tyler SitDavid and TJ sit down with Rev. Tyler Sit of New City Church in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA. Tyler represents a “Side A” pastoral perspective as an ordained minister for the United Methodist Church in the US. In this wide-ranging conversation, David and TJ to seek to understand Tyler's perspective, his understanding of Side B, and his take on Side A hermeneutics, particularly those centered in liberation theologies. Tyler was an excellent conversation partner in this. We encourage our listeners to listen closely to understand one Side A perspective more carefully, and consider how a Side B perspective migh...
2022-08-241h 51
New KinshipBONUS: TJ and David on the 6 Moral Foundations in Side B SexualityIn this bonus episode, TJ and David review the 6 universal moral foundations from Jonathan Haidt’s research in light of their views—and others’—on Christian queer sexuality. This is a follow-up to last week’s discussion, so you may want to listen to that episode also.If you enjoy this bonus episode, drop us a line! Share feedback or questions by sending us a voice message at anchor.fm/communion-shalom, using the contact form on our website www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact, or emailing us at davidfrank.mn@gmail.com...
2022-07-2029 minNew KinshipBONUS: TJ and David on the 6 Moral Foundations in Side B SexualityIn this bonus episode, TJ and David review the 6 universal moral foundations from Jonathan Haidt’s research in light of their views—and others’—on Christian queer sexuality. This is a follow-up to last week’s discussion, so you may want to listen to that episode also.If you enjoy this bonus episode, drop us a line! Share feedback or questions by sending us a voice message at anchor.fm/communion-shalom, using the contact form on our website www.podpage.com/communion-shalom/contact, or emailing us at davidfrank.mn@gmail.com...
2022-07-2029 min
New Kinship#7 - David's Story | Revoice, "Coming Out", Facing Tensions, Finding StabilityDavid Frank shares about his "coming out" story at church and with family, reflecting on formative influences on his sexuality, and how God has established him in a Side B life that is committed to sewing into community._____________[CONTENT WARNING: Story includes brief mentions of direct sexual desire and addiction.]_____________1:03 - Revoice Recap6:48 - Jesus and My Sexuality14:07 - Sin and Fanning the Flames17:50 - About Coming Out to My Church29:32 - Coming Out to...
2021-11-0456 minNew Kinship#7 - David's Story | Revoice, "Coming Out", Facing Tensions, Finding StabilityDavid Frank shares about his "coming out" story at church and with family, reflecting on formative influences on his sexuality, and how God has established him in a Side B life that is committed to sewing into community._____________[CONTENT WARNING: Story includes brief mentions of direct sexual desire and addiction.]_____________1:03 - Revoice Recap6:48 - Jesus and My Sexuality14:07 - Sin and Fanning the Flames17:50 - About Coming Out to My Church29:32 - Coming Out to...
2021-11-0456 min
New Kinship#6 - TJ's Story | Dysphoria, Queerness, Contextualization, and ConvictionTJ Espinoza shares the history of his personal understanding about his own sexuality, and how God has lead him through study, community, and spiritual experience towards a Side B conviction, even if it leaves him with many loose ends for his life._____________[CONTENT WARNING: Story includes brief mentions of moments of direct sexual desire.]_____________2:24 - TJ in Americas19:06 - Queer in Africa22:38 - Christian College27:33 - Entering the Side B Conversation31:37 - Why not Side A?47:09...
2021-10-141h 01New Kinship#6 - TJ's Story | Dysphoria, Queerness, Contextualization, and ConvictionTJ Espinoza shares the history of his personal understanding about his own sexuality, and how God has lead him through study, community, and spiritual experience towards a Side B conviction, even if it leaves him with many loose ends for his life._____________[CONTENT WARNING: Story includes brief mentions of moments of direct sexual desire.]_____________2:24 - TJ in Americas19:06 - Queer in Africa22:38 - Christian College27:33 - Entering the Side B Conversation31:37 - Why not Side A?47:09...
2021-10-141h 01
New Kinship#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay SexualityDavid and TJ describe the “Sides” terminology/heuristic device used among many Christians engaged in the conversation around sexuality and Christianity in the US. They describe the most common fourfold system - A, B, Y, X – including the key principles that animate the particular school of thought, key organizations and/or figures, and values or postures that seem to be embedded among people in each broad school.This conversation will be of use to listening to many future episodes as we are likely to use this system as a basic reference system when talking about the variou...
2021-09-081h 01
New Kinship#1 - The Pull to Side ACommunion & Shalom's first episode, where TJ and David discuss why many straight Christians feel pulled to "Side A", an affirming progressive sexual ethics perspective (i.e. approval of gay marriage/sex). TJ and David discuss these dynamics, and the impact on queer/gay/SSA/etc Christians who are "Side B" (i.e. not-straight, but affirm the historical Biblical teaching of sex between husband and wife). Get full access to New Kinship at newkinship.substack.com/subscribe
2021-06-3053 min