Shows
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 250When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020, we thought it would last a week or two. It was a way for the two friends to keep in touch during the various Covid lockdowns. Astonishingly, the chats have now reached the 250 mark. We never planned to have a certain guest for this special edition. To be honest, we don't work in that way. Setting up the chats relies on a number of diaries coming together, but we were pleased to have the amazing Paul Ainsworth with us for this special chat. Paul has been a guest twice...
2026-02-0837 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 250When we started the Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020, we thought it would last a week or two. It was a way for the two friends to keep in touch during the various Covid lockdowns. Astonishingly, the chats have now reached the 250 mark. We never planned to have a certain guest for this special edition. To be honest, we don't work in that way. Setting up the chats relies on a number of diaries coming together, but we were pleased to have the amazing Paul Ainsworth with us for this special chat. Paul has been a guest twice...
2026-02-0837 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 248It is always a pleasure to welcome a guest onto the Frank and Stan Chat who actually watches our weekly chats regularly. Laura McPhee is Director of Education at the University Schools Trust in London. She's a former Headteacher who is committed to social justice and also lectures at the South Bank University. She's currently finalising her second book before it goes to publication later this year. It follows her first book, which was very well received, called 'Tackling Poverty and Disadvantage in Schools'.The chat begins with Laura explaining her career journey before we break...
2026-01-1935 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 246Happy New Year! We are delighted to upload a fascinating chat we had with Dame Kathy August. Kathy is a former Headteacher, a senior local education authority leader, Manchester's first academy CEO, former Board member at Ofsted and Honorary Visiting Professor at Salford Business School. She's also an author and now works as an independent adviser. So, an impressive and varied career which comes to light during a wide ranging chat.Stan gets things moving by considering 'survivor bias'. He reflects on the choices made by politicians and education leaders who are heavily influenced by their...
2026-01-1037 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 245The final Frank and Stan Chat of 2025 sees them chatting with Jan Allen, a former Headteacher of a large secondary school in Rochdale and now the Director of the Education Community Partnership. Jan decided to step away from headship at a time when many would have decided to stay. She had achieved a Good Ofsted but felt she needed a new challenge. As someone committed to the community she served, she decided to try and support students and young people who face multiple and considerable challenges through working with voluntary agencies and charities. She admits the recent experiences have...
2026-01-0438 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 243This week we were fortunate to have Lois McClure, an amazing colleague who has worked at the Coop Group for 13 years and took an apprenticeship route into her career. She explains how she became aware at College that she didn't want to go to university even though there was pressure from the teachers to do so. She knew she wouldn’t enjoy 'going to lectures and then going back to a room to write an essay about it'. So, she embarked on a varied career with the Coop which saw her winning a number of national awards as an ap...
2025-12-0937 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 241One of the great joys for those of us involved in the Frank and Stan Chat is that some amazing educators are willing to spend some time chatting to us about the things that interest them. On occasions, we feel as though we know quite a bit about their area of interest, but today was slightly different. We were joined by Mark Philips, a former Senior HMI and National Lead for Music, who was able to draw on a vast range of experience and insight. The chat is useful for those with an interest in the arts, particularly, music...
2025-12-0141 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 237Frank met Chris Jones, CEO of SMART Curriculum, a couple of years ago. We've been trying to secure a guest slot on the Frank and Stan Chat for a little while. He's a very busy man, so we are delighted to have him join us for what proves to be an illuminating and far-reaching discussion.Stan gets things rolling by questioning the central costs of trusts compared to those of the local authorities in the past. Chris is well-informed on such matters and explains that comparisons are tricky because the actual personal salaries are not made...
2025-10-1336 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 236: Dave RzeznikIt is a great pleasure to have Dave Rzeznik, a former HMI for many years with a keen interest in the provision and outcomes of the most vulnerable pupils, join us as our guest this week. We have been trying to secure a slot with Dave for quite some time, so it is great to have time to discuss the things that have caught our eyes this week. Stan kicks off by considering the new role of the nominee being introduced by Ofsted as part of their attempt to de-escalate the tension felt during their inspections...
2025-10-0837 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 233: Ronda Zelezny-Green Returns EditionWe are so fortunate to have highly regarded experts in their field who come along to be a guest on our chat. This week is a good example. The two gents are joined by Dr Ronda Zelezny-Green, the Chair of the Board at InnovateHer, as well as a digital changemaker creating social learning systems to empower Black people, women, people with disabilities, and others who may be marginalised in the technology and education sectors. She has nearly 20 years of professional experience spanning five continents from the public, private, and civil society sectors. A Black and Indigenous woman excelling with ADHD...
2025-09-1738 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 232Frank and Stan have been working hard to secure a slot in Paul Cherpeau's diary for close on a year. As the CEO of the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce he's a very busy colleague. Frank and Paul are members of the independent Liverpool Education Board and have discussed how best to improve the employability of young people in the city on many occasions. The chat does not disappoint as Paul explains how the Chamber works to support local businesses in the Liverpool City Region by providing a strong networking community, advocating for their interests with government...
2025-09-1237 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 231Well, who would have predicted the weekly Frank and Stan Chat would reach its seventh academic year. Back in May 2020, the two gents were unable to meet for a beer, so decided to chat using Zoom and press the record button as a means of saving our thoughts on the ongoing pandemic. Putting it on Youtube without knowing what we were doing enabled viewers to watch and follow. We are now at edition 231, with a further 16 specialist SPOTLIGHT editions so we are getting close to 250! With guests lined up into 2026, all being well, we will be heading towards 300 by...
2025-09-0335 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 230The final weekly Frank and Stan Chat chat of the 2024-2025 academic year sees Lisa Lea-Weston return to discuss what's caught her eye this week as well as update us on her work on supervision, Lisa was a guest last year and made a very positive impression in the focus her work provides on supporting senior leaders. Interestingly, the focus of her work is now developing to offer supervision to make more staff, with different levels of responsibility, across schools and trusts. Our chat considers how much senior education leaders in government and those in parliament at high office...
2025-07-1136 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 228This week the two gents welcome back Rebecca Smith, a Headteacher in a large secondary school in Greater Manchester. Rebecca has been a guest a few times before and was a guest on our 100th edition of the chat in April 2022 alongside Prof Andy Hargreaves and her husband Neil Smith. Frank worked closely with Rebecca when she was a principal at one of the Coop Trust academies, where he witnessed her amazing leadership skills in turning around a school, that was fairly dysfunctional, into an amazing place for young people to learn and for amazing staff...
2025-06-2636 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 227A few years after Frank and Stan started their teaching careers they became aware of an education author called Pie Corbett. As there was very little guidance in the area of reading and writing Pie's books became a staple diet for professional development. Now, with over 200 publications, including the seminal 'Talk for Writing' and 'Cats, Hats and Hippos', Pie's extensive and varied career makes him an excellent guest. He doesn't disappoint.Stan considers his wonderful holiday last week which gave him time to reflect on leadership in sport. He mourns the loss of enigmatic leaders and...
2025-06-2240 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 225A riveting, well-informed and insightful chat with Kevin Edward Turner MBE, co-founder and co-artistic director of Company Chameleon, a highly regarded contemporary dance company based in Manchester. Kevin was a student of Frank's when he was a headteacher and re-connected in 2018 when Company Chameleon undertook dance workshops in some of the Coop's academies in Greater Manchester. Kevin explains how his life was transformed and given purpose when the Northern Ballet Theatre Company provided a dance residence at the primary school he was attending. His obvious talent was seen immediately and fostered through the Trafford Dance Group...
2025-05-2152 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 224Just the two gents this week and they consider governance, leadership and the 'fit and proper' test for football, rugby league and MAT leadership. With Salford City Reds facing a winding-up order for non-payment of taxes Stan considers how they got into this position while Frank considers the journey of his beloved Southend Utd which faced similar difficulties recently. They consider the importance of honesty and transparency in leadership and Frank is quick to highlight the work of Prof Marianne Jennings and her book The Seven Signs of Ethical Collapse'. By the way, she's agreed to join our chat...
2025-05-1640 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.219This week Frank and Stan are joined by Rebecca Leek, the author of the recently published book 'The School Ready Governor'. Rebecca has written an insightful and easily accessible book that covers the history and development of the governor role, how effective governance manages to bridge the operational and strategic divide as well as encouraging governors/trustees to be brave and firm when things do not seem right. The chat includes Stan drawing attention to a mechanical device his father created that includes a 'governor' which he explains is a speed limiter or controller. Rebecca reveals...
2025-03-1440 min
Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West10 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1241 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West09 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1226 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West08 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1234 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West07 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1233 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West06 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1225 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West05 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1236 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West04 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1226 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West03 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1220 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West02 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1233 minDeal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West01 - Deal in Wheat and other Stories of the New and Old West by Frank NorrisA Deal in Wheat and Other Stories of the New and Old West is a compelling collection of Frank Norris’ short stories, exploring themes of greed, ambition, and survival. From financial corruption to love and desperation, these stories paint vivid pictures of both frontier and urban struggles.
2025-03-1224 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 218This week the gents are joined by Paul Ainsworth, a Director of school improvement for a Primary Phase MAT in Eastern England. He's also the author of the seminal books 'No Silver Bullets 1' and 'No Silver Bullets 2'. Frank and Paul have worked together in programmes designed to support future school and trust leaders. Paul's previous guest appearance was very well received and we enjoyed it immensely so we were happy to have a further chat. This week we consider a range of school improvement issues before we got stuck into what caught our eyes this week? For Stan...
2025-03-0844 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 217Due to Frank's personal circumstances, it has been necessary to move some planned weekly chats around. This has meant that the chat with amazing Rebecca Leek, author of 'The School-Ready Governor', planned for the end of this week has been delayed until the middle of March. We had a planned chat with Ross McGill as part of the SPOTLIGHT series so we asked him if he would follow the usual weekly pattern of our chat, and he agreed. Ross was our guest last year and proved very popular. His Teacher Toolkit website has over 250k visits...
2025-02-2745 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 215The latest chat is with Kerry Harrison, the Digital Skills Coordinator for the Lancashire Skills and Employment Hub. Frank worked with Kerry when he was chair of the Blackpool Education Improvement Board and she was a key figure in engaging schools and Colleges in the digital and STEM drive that Frank led on. In addition to Kerry chatting about her varied career which leads the discussion into skills for employment, transition arrangements, the benefits of cross curricular planning and managing work while also being a parent we also chat about 'the dead cat' theory, gene therapy to regain sight and...
2025-02-2138 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat NO. 214Our planned guest Ross McGill was unable to make the recording date for this edition so we decided to record a chat between the two of us. Apparently, some of our followers like to have this sort of chat every now and again so here is a treat...for some.This week we announce that our little video cast/podcast won an award as the most popular education podcast in......wait for it.....OTTAWA! Who would have thought five years ago when these chats started that it would lead to this.Our chat...
2025-02-1430 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 210Life is full of contradictions and this week's chat is no exception. The two gents reflect on the knowledge, skills, understanding, attitudes and behaviours necessary for living in today's world and the one that is coming. Stan considers the challenges he has faced in rebuilding a family member's bathroom. It has been a journey of discovery both for him and for those he has sought help from during the past three weeks. Frank reflects on the PM's speech about AI and considers whether all of the connections have been made in terms of what is taught in schools and whether...
2025-01-1737 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 209Frank and Stan are delighted to welcome back Lisa Fathers. Lisa was a guest in Edition 164 just over a year ago. During that time she's been promoted to Deputy CEO of the trust. The start of 2025 has seen a very cold spell and no let up on the education news front. This week Stan considers the power of AL and the somewhat circular nature of some of its insight. Lisa then picks up the baton to consider the Schools Bill that passed its Second Reading this week as well as the impact of the various news stories around child exploitation...
2025-01-1031 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 205It dawned on us as we were planning for this week's chat that we had never really covered the area of Youth Work in any depth. Well, we managed to put that straight this week through chatting with Owen Sedgwick-Jell, the Head of Membership and Programmes at the Woodcraft Folk. Woodcraft Folk is a charity that works with young people across the country offering a place where children can grow in confidence, learn about the world and start to understand how to value our planet and each other. It is celebrating its Centenary in 2025 and is keen to increase...
2024-11-2235 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 200In May 2020, Frank Norris and Stan Johnson met online. Frank decided to press a button on the Zoom link and a recording had been made. He then decided to post to Youtube so that there could be a permanent record of the chat. Over four years have passed and in this 200th edition the gents are joined by Sir Michael Wilshaw, the former HMCI between 2012 and late 2016. The chat covers a host of issues including Michael's relationship with Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings, his reaction to the Trojan Horse events shortly after his appointment, the shift in emphasis to...
2024-10-0446 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 196The two gents are back for another academic year. The seven week break they have had has recharged the batteries and much has happened in education, especially in the past week. Fortuitously, they are joined by John Malynn, a long serving senior Civil Servant at the DfE and for four years at Ofsted. Frank and John would meet regularly to discuss developments such as new Frameworks when Frank was responsible for such matters as a senior HMI. The publication of the Big Listen including the report from Dame Christine Gilbert this week means that John has a rather unique perspective...
2024-09-0747 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 194This week Frank and Stan chat with Jill Gray, former Principal at Blackpool 6th Form College and now a leading figure in the creation of The Coastal Collaborative Trust, a new multi academy trust that includes her former College. The chat opens with Stan having mixed emotions around the news that the new Government intend to undertake a Curriculum Review to ensure there are wider opportunities for pupils and students. He worries whether having such a clear stance on improving the time devoted to the arts and physical activity is a good starting point for an independent review. Jill then...
2024-07-1235 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 192This week Stan returns from his two week break and we are joined by Education Director, author, keynote speaker and great guest Paul Ainsworth. Paul's most recent publication 'No Silver Bullets' draws on his considerable and varied career involved in school improvement. True to his character he doesn't plug any of his books, although Stan and Frank do. The chat begins with Stan 'reflecting' on hotel mirrors before Paul explains how optimistic he is that so many senior Opposition leaders were educated at comprehensive schools. He feels this will ensure the majority will not be forgotten as education policy changes...
2024-06-2842 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 191It has taken a while but it was great to have Mags Bradbury, the Head of Social Responsibility and Civic Engagement at University of Manchester as our guest. Mags previously led the Coop Group's education programme which included their early foray into academy sponsorship. In fact, Mags was instrumental in encouraging Frank to apply for a senior role with the Group. This led in turn to him being appointed the CEO of the Co-op Academies Trust. The chat kicks off (it is the Euro tournament at the moment) with Kendra explaining the importance of creativity including music and art for...
2024-06-2133 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 190With Stan taking a couple of weeks away from the chat we are delighted to have Kendra Allen as the co-host. Kendra has been a longstanding follower of the weekly chat and has appeared on three separate occasions as a guest. The chat kicks off with Kendra discussing the level of abuse online that female politicians receive and why this makes it difficult for some to consider a career in politics. Frank then offers some insights into some appalling comments made about Angela Rayner and why he respects her life journey and her commitment to her home area. Kendra then...
2024-06-1435 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 189Sometimes major news stories have relevance for education and the way they show poor leadership and/or judgement. This week's faux pas was not directly about education but it demonstrated poor judgement and a lack of awareness. John Cosgrove former headteacher, author and freelance writer joins Frank and Stan as they unpick the decision of the PM to miss part of the 80th anniversary of the D-Day landings in Normandy. As usual, we move the chat towards an education scenario and Stan compares the decision to missing the leavers' assembly because of a less-than-important appointment. John then considers why education...
2024-06-0833 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 187The gents are delighted Aelwyn Pugh, Former HMI, Senior Effectiveness Officer and Head of Music Service decided to return as a guest. His first appearance was in September 2023 and led to comments such as 'at last we get to hear a proper HMI chatting about education' and 'this is what HMI used to be like. Aelwyn gets things moving by explaining how his career covered a wide range of settings and experiences. Frank suggested this made him a strong candidate for HMI. He then goes on to give the reason why he never received a proper induction as HMI. A...
2024-05-1741 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 186When Frank and Stan held their first chat in May 2020 we never imagined others would be interested in them. We certainly didn't envisage that eminent thinkers, practitioners and respected colleagues would join us as guests. This week we are delighted welcome back Neil Jurd, author of 'The Leadership Book', former army officer and RMA Sandhurst instructor and now a business leader of a training organisation in leadership development and coaching. Neil has an MA from Cranfield University and a fellow of the Institute of Leadership and Management. He was appointed OBE in 2021 and awarded the British Citizen Award in 2020...
2024-05-1149 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 185It was a privilege to be joined by Jan Rowe from John Moores University for a chat about ITE and the latest education news. It didn't take long for us all to reflect on the teacher trainer market review and the impact it has had. It is fair to say we found it hard to identify many strengths, if at all. Teacher recruitment numbers remain low and existing providers have had to devote valuable time to the process when all available resources should have been focused on increasing recruitment figures. Stan considers the decision by a MAT to lose all...
2024-05-0344 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 183We are grateful to Adrian Lyons for stepping in when the planned guest was unavailable. Adrian was one of Her Majesty’s Inspectors of Education, one of the most experienced HMI in Ofsted with a national lead for economics, business and enterprise. He regularly led the inspections of secondary schools, primary schools and initial teacher training providers. He led major national surveys such as ‘Getting Ready for Work’ in 2016 and in 2019 was the lead HMI for Ofsted’s research into initial teacher education (ITE) training programmes. His role for many years involved working with directors to find solutions to individu...
2024-04-1939 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 182Following a short Easter break the two gents are back this week with an amazing guest. Dr Vic Carr is a Primary headteacher on The Wirral, Reserve Army Officer; Chartered Manager; CollectivEd Senior Fellow; Chartered College of Teaching Fellow; Senior Research Fellow, Centre for Army Leadership; author and TEDx speaker who focuses on leadership and the power of language. She has lectured part time at Master’s degree level, has 3 MAs in Equality and Diversity; Leadership; and Modern War Studies/Contemporary Military History; and a doctorate in leadership and politics.Following the normal introductions Frank focuses on...
2024-04-1432 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 181Frank met the amazing Sarah Davies at a conference last September in London. He was impressed by her insight, passion and commitment of Sarah so he reached out and luckily she agreed to be a guest on our weekly Frank and Stan Chat. She explains why Oracy is so important, how it unlocks doors in other areas of learning and is not just an English department issue. She also explains how she found the time to write 'Talking about Tracy' during the various Covid lockdowns. Stan kicks off by questioning the view that was shared today...
2024-03-2237 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT No.5Today Frank and Stan chatted with Ros McMullen and Peter Cockcroft, two colleagues closely involved with Headrest, a support group for senior managers facing significant stress from undertaking their role in education. Headrest explain why they exist on their website https://www.headrestuk.co.uk'Never before has the job of running a school been so challenging, not just for headteachers, but also for CEOs, governors and trustees. As a system-led profession, we need to come together and offer a much-needed mutual support service, acting almost as a safety device...
2024-03-1438 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 180On the day Ofsted announced the launch of 'The Big Listen' it is timely to have Tracey O'Brien, headteacher and author of the seminal book 'Rethinking Inspection as our guest. The chat covers a broad range of topics. Stan kicks off with the strange news story where apparently a Headteacher was dismissed for slapping her child's wrist while on school premises in front of the designated safeguarding leads (DSL). Tracey then considers the importance of Ofsted's Big Listen and why more emphasis needs to be placed on self evaluation and improving the Framework and the quality of inspectors. Frank finishes...
2024-03-1436 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 179This week the gents chat with two colleagues who appeared on the show in October 2022. Big advocates of the physically active learning movement, Alun Davies and Bryn Llewellyn bring us up to speed with their recent work. The chat also includes a consideration of the leadership approach adopted by James Timpson, of the shoe repair business, which gives significant flexibility to local store managers. The chat then considers the importance of wellbeing and happiness for staff and pupils before moving on to the hot topic of school holidays and parents/carers being fined. The chat ends with Frank considering the...
2024-03-0145 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 178Every year in the build-up to World Book Day Frank and Stan invite children's author Dan Worsley to be their guest. The chat covers how he creates his ideas, drafts his work, edits and then publishes the successful books. These include the Eric Appleby trilogy and the Impossible Tales collection. As a former primary school teacher Dan appreciates the challenges in encouraging reading and writing. During the chat, he provides ideas for teachers to encourage a fresh approach and also reads from two of his brilliant books. The chat is managed in such a way that it should appeal to...
2024-02-1641 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 177This week the two gents are joined by Sam Gibbs, Leader of Curriculum and Development for the Greater Manchester Education Trust. Sam contributed strongly at a recent Forum Strategy event and also published a fascinating analysis of the risks associated with centrally driven training programmes. As she points out in the chat there is a need for professional agency and leadership development programmes need to acknowledge this. Frank develops this theme by referring to a recent blog published by academics at the University of Manchester called 'House of Cards: The marketisation of school leadership qualifications in England'. This paper identifies...
2024-02-0937 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 176This week Stan gets the chance to chat with a colleague with a vast range of experience in offering supervision support for education staff including senior leaders. Lisa Lea Weston is the founder of Talking Heads Supervision which has provided support to over 1000 schools across the country. If you follow these weekly chats you will know that Stan is a big advocate of supervision support. The chat enables Lisa to explain how supervision is offered and also how it has helped to support personal growth and development. She explains how her team of around 40 participated in a training session this...
2024-02-0236 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 175We were delighted to be put in contact with Sam Fox and Chris Walsh by a previous guest Shaheen Myers. Shaheen sang the praises of their work so we were keen to find out what all of her excitement was about. It turns out to be a new online support programme for PSHE in secondary schools. Sam and Chris explain the concept and where the idea for their work came from. It seems to have started as an attempt to improve young people's awareness of financial matters but quickly morphed into a much wider project. Through a modern PSHE...
2024-01-2640 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 174Sometimes the Frank and Stan Chats connect with guests at just the right time. John Woodhouse, who set up and leads the Safeguarding Network, joined the two gents during a week when Ofsted announced changes to the way it intends to inspect safeguarding, a recent NSPCC report on child abuse was published and the awful events surrounding the death of a two year old focused on child protection arrangements. Nearly all of these issues are covered in the chat along with the developing game of whether you can determine the Ofsted inspection grade by reading the text of the report...
2024-01-1934 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 173For the first edition of the New Year we were delighted to have Dr Ronda Zelezny-Green join us as our guest from sunny Grenada, in Southern Spain. Frank knows Ronda through their work as Board members (Ronda is the chair) of InnovateHer, a not-for-profit organisation committed to ensuring more females join the digital tech industries and ensuring those industries are ready for more females. Ronda is a digital changemaker creating social learning systems to empower Black people, women, people with disabilities, and other marginalized populations in the technology and education sectors. Serving as a mobile technologist, trainer, and researcher...
2024-01-1234 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 172The final chat of 2023 sees Eric Craven, the Scouse Poet, return for the third time. He is the regular 'go-to' guest for the final chat before Christmas and he never disappoints. He has a new anthology of poems just published called "Love, hurt and whimsy'. He reads two contrasting poems from the collection as well as a new poem about his son. Despite much news in the world of education we glide over this and concentrate on some positive insights. The end of the chat includes a summary of the viewing figures for the year and the 10 most-watched editions. We...
2023-12-1833 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 170Sir David Carter was a guest on Frank and Stan Chat in September 2022 and we were delighted to welcome him back to find out what has caught his eye this week? The chat considers The Elgin Marbles and what it says about leadership. Also enables us all to reflect on the tricky meeting with a parent/carer and how best to deal with it. David then shares his clear view on the Minimum Service Standards that are likely to hit a wall of protest. Frank then considers the value, or not, of the bursary system that is trying to attract...
2023-12-0140 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 170Sir David Carter was a guest on Frank and Stan Chat in September 2022 and we were delighted to welcome him back to find out what has caught his eye this week? The chat considers The Elgin Marbles and what it says about leadership. Also enables us all to reflect on the tricky meeting with a parent/carer and how best to deal with it. David then shares his clear view on the Minimum Service Standards that are likely to hit a wall of protest. Frank then considers the value, or not, of the bursary system that is trying to attract...
2023-12-0140 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 168It is great to have weekly chats with colleagues who know each other well and feel safe chatting about things. There is a higher level of trust and respect. This is certainly the case for this week's chat with Stephen McMullan. Stephen worked with Frank as one of the most senior colleagues at the Coop Academies Trust when Frank was CEO there. He became a Senior HMI with Ofsted and then followed in Stan's footsteps as a senior officer at Wakefield MBC. The chat covers a recent report from the Youth Endowment Trust that suggested some young people were scared...
2023-11-1739 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 168It is great to have weekly chats with colleagues who know each other well and feel safe chatting about things. There is a higher level of trust and respect. This is certainly the case for this week's chat with Stephen McMullan. Stephen worked with Frank as one of the most senior colleagues at the Coop Academies Trust when Frank was CEO there. He became a Senior HMI with Ofsted and then followed in Stan's footsteps as a senior officer at Wakefield MBC. The chat covers a recent report from the Youth Endowment Trust that suggested some young people were scared...
2023-11-1739 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 167Every week we usually have a great guest drawn from a range of roles involved in education. But, this week we have excelled ourselves by having as our guest Prof Andy Hargreaves, the visiting Professor at University of Ottawa, Research Professor at Boston College, an elected member of the US National Academy of Education and current adviser to the First Minister of Scotland. In addition he has published over 30 books and has eight outstanding writing awards. He is ranked 15th by Education Week (US) with the most influence on the US education policy debate. The discussion...
2023-11-1038 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 166A few months ago Frank met Dave McPartlin at a glitzy event in Blackpool. Dave, Headteacher at Flakefleet Primary School in Fleetwood has recently spoken out publicly about the current Ofsted arrangements and how these were impacting on his wellbeing as well as other senior leaders. He mentioned some work he was proud of at his school so we decided to record this week's Frank and Stan Chat in the school's new community cafe. The chat explains why the cafe is important to the school's community and how it was funded (spoiler alert: No school funds were used in the...
2023-11-0329 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 165Carolyn Eyre is a nationally recognised expert on safeguarding. She returns to Frank and Stan Chat to discuss what's caught her eye this week but also to explain the significant changes in statutory and non-statutory arrangements that come into place before the end of 2023. Nearly all of the proposed changes were completely new to Frank (what's new, we hear you cry!). If you are a trustee, governor, senior leader in a trust, school or setting this chat is well worth watching/listening to. Frank also offers deep respect for brilliantly talented and committed staff who stick with a school despite...
2023-10-2741 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.164It is always a pleasure to have guests on Frank and Stan Chat who feel relaxed and willing to be open and honest. Lisa Fathers, Director of Education and Partnerships at Bright Futures Educational Trust, fits that bill. The chat covers mathematics for Primary Schools, what the Shadow Secretary of State for Education may have meant when she suggested more regular inspections on the most important issues, the importance of political awareness but maintaining impartiality, brushing teeth and why being honest about a lack of knowledge or an error of judgement are important features of effective leadership. A great 30 minutes...
2023-10-1328 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat SPOTLIGHT with Dr Rebecca LawtonA few months ago Dr Rebecca Lawton was a guest on the weekly Frank and Stan Chat. During the discussion, she mentioned a number of initiatives she had introduced to improve teacher workload, recruitment and retention. We invited Rebecca back to focus fully on her initiatives including the introduction of a 4 day week for staff. It is an amazing chat that captures innovation, leadership and a real commitment to the wellbeing of staff and pupils. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-09-2924 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 162It is an absolute pleasure to spend an hour each week chatting formally (while recording) and informally (prior to and after the recording) with our guests. This week Aelwyn Pugh, a former longstanding HMI, joined our chat and provided real food for thought around what a broad and balanced curriculum looks like and whether it is actually available for all pupils. Stan considers a new approach for the DfE where they announce that they are addressing workload issues by in effect stopping things that teaching staff don't actually do. Frank makes clear why Ofsted subject reports should be all about...
2023-09-2237 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.161Timing is very important in ensuring we get the right guest at the right time. In the world of Frank and Stan Chat much of this is down to luck. Today's edition is a good example because the night before this edition Co-operative UK, the organisation that Rose Marley is CEO won the Business of the Year Award at a glitzy Manchester venue. Rose is a great guest because she raises important points for education drawn from non-education events. A good example is the way she considered the apology from the Police regarding the arrest of protestors at the Sarah...
2023-09-1540 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 160After a break of five weeks to recharge the batteries the two long time friends are back for their 5th academic year. This week's chat focuses on the problems some schools and the government have encountered regarding aerated concrete. A week when the Secretary of State for Education swore during an interview with ITV, when some schools returned their building survey questionnaires to find the DfE didn't have an accurate list and Sir Martyn Oliver was interviewed by the Education Select Committee. In addition, the gents chat about their journey as inspectors and why having a Chief Inspector who understands...
2023-09-0940 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 159: The Chris Murphy EditionA rather personal Frank and Stan Chat for Frank this week as he has invited a good friend of his son, Chris Murphy, as the guest. Chris chose not to follow the path many of his friends followed when they left secondary school and College finally ending up at university. Chris chose an apprenticeship through a sprinkler installation business and this has enabled him to progress to be a Director of the business. He also identified a problem in how businesses order and quote for work so he has developed an app called ONSO, which enables greater control of the...
2023-07-2038 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.158: The Nihad Cehic EditionAnother great guest this week as Frank and Stan Chat about Artificial Intelligence (or at least Nihad Celic does), the Secretary of State believes headteachers should provide one of the most expensive taxi services in the country and the honesty of a footballer revealing his mental health challenges. The section on AI is worth watching alone as Nihad explains how the emphasis on knowledge is currently misplaced and why we need to develop greater appreciation of human contact and expression for our youngest pupils as teaching and learning morphs into something never seen before. Fascinating. Nihad also explains how he...
2023-07-1435 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 157: The Dr Gill L'Anson EditionThis week Frank and Stan Chat with clinical psychologist Dr Gill L'Anson about her work on leadership and how the pandemic has affected the wellbeing of senior leaders. Gill brings her research and insight to bear on the issues of the week. She stresses the need to draw on 'the best psychological knowledge we have to help improve things..... and we need to be much less polarised'. Stan chats about a tweet he had read about not hugging a child, then Gill considers the considered nature of a letter that a group of female students sent to Rishi Sunak about...
2023-07-0734 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 156: The James Eldon EditionThis week the two gents chat to James Eldon, Principal at Manchester Academy, a member of the Headteachers' Roundtable and advocate for the thinking around the recently announced MBacc. The chat begins with Stan reflecting on the power of Ministers in ordering or demanding that Ofsted inspects a school where a story about a student identifying as a Cat ran wild in newspapers recently. James considers the implications of this event on the most senior leader in the school and why these issues hinder colleagues from taking the most senior position in our schools. He then looks at the retention...
2023-07-0147 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No. 155: The Lucy Truman Returns again editionThis week our chat needed a quick change of plan. The planned guest was unable to join us but fortunately, Lucy Trueman Founder and CEO of TruemanChange Ltd was available. Having been a guest three times previously Lucy knew the ropes so we just ploughed into the weekly education chat. Stan considered the events in parliament and how he felt that a clearer sign of collective responsibility across the House would have been helpful. He related the issue to governing bodies formally agreeing to a decision made by one of the sub-committees. Frank then asked Lucy to explain whether local...
2023-06-2333 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.154: The Debbie Clinton EditionFollowing a week's break Frank and Stan Chat is back with Debbie Clinton as their guest. A former secondary school Headteacher in the NE, ex HMI and former CEO of a multi academy trust in the Midlands Debbie now supports a variety of schools around the country. The chat takes place following the resignation of Boris Johnson, the announcement by Ofsted that they are tweaking their school inspection arrangements and the distressing events in Nottingham when two university students and a school caretaker were murdered. All of these issues are covered in the chat while Stan reflects on how it...
2023-06-1848 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.153: The Dr Rebecca Lawton EditionA fascinating guest this week and a focus on her Doctoral thesis into the uniqueness, or otherwise of Ofsted reports. Rebecca considered how language in the reports led to subsequent improvements in outcomes, were there any emerging trends, any influencing factors that affected language or impact and within the area for improvement were there any particularly effective or impactful phrases that drove improvement. It is a very important piece of research and makes clear Ofsted reports are far from unique. We also have time for what's caught our eye this week so Stan kicks off his personal IT problems in...
2023-06-0236 minFrank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.152: The Shaheen Myers EditionThis week Shaheen Myers, Deputy Director of Learning for Leeds City Council joins the guests and highlights issues around mental health and wellbeing for senior leaders. Stan chips in with thoughts about Ofsted while Shaheen considers the impact of variability within inspections on the confidence and sense of belonging for senior leaders. Frank shares some research he's undertaken on how schools are advertising vacancies and how they might need to up their game. The gents agreed to invite Shaheen back as a Spotlight guest to focus more extensively on mental health and wellbeing issues. Hope you enjoy the chat and...
2023-05-2737 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.151: The Eddie Czestochowoski EditionThis week the two gents are joined by Eddie Czestochowski, founder and Managing Director of Cell Pack Solutions Ltd, a battery manufacturer based in the North east. In addition to having a busy working life Eddie is also a keen chess player and is encouraging children and young people to begin playing the game. Whether it is opening a chess club in a local library or going into schools to teach the game Eddie is on a mission to get every school playing chess. Stan kicks off the chat with some observations about a rather high profile headteacher and her...
2023-05-1934 min
Frank and Stan ChatsFrank and Stan Chat No.150: The Russell Harvey Returns Again EditionWhen we started Frank and Stan Chat in May 2020 we never imagined we would get to episode 5 but here we are at edition 150! And we are breaking new ground by having the brilliant Russell Harvey, the Resilience Coach as our guest for the third time. No other guest has managed that....yet! This week Stan wonders whether the Speaker of the House of Commons is actually a supply teacher. Russell then considers how powerful small acts of kindness are and points to research that backs up his view. Frank then considers the apparently ultra-difficult SATs papers for Y6 and how...
2023-05-1240 min