Shows
Holy Shift#24 - The Dark Side of Ministry with Steve PyfromIn this Episode we sat down with my friend Steve Pyfrom (Head of Strategy and Sales at the Nine)Steve's a former pastor based in Portland Oregon, and we talked about:Our shared love for Portland,Steve’s relationship to church now that he’s not in ministry,His long, drawn out journey of leaving ministry and the pain that followed,How easy it is use ministry to justify your own ego,and the toll ministry takes on your family. 2025-07-0253 minHoly Shift#23 - Honesty, inclusion, and self acceptance with Emily Arnold (Saddleback Church, The Speaker Lab)In this episode we sat down with Emily Arnold (former ministry leader at Saddleback Church, Community Manager at the Speaker Lab) to talk about: Her journey into ministry at Saddleback Church and all of the compounding factors that led her to leave,The sense of belonging and identity that having a role in church create,Becoming honest about the human parts of us we ignore while in ministry,And Emily’s journey of finding her new career in and her full authentic self leaving ministry. 2025-06-041h 05
On Messaging7 Messaging Principles Every PMM Should Know w/Collin Mayjack | GoFundMeOn the show today, I have Collin Mayjack, Principle Product Marketing Manager at GoFundMe.Before joining GoFundMe, Collin worked in product marketing at Oncue and Dataro and is the creator of Holy Shift.//What you’ll learn:Why Collin believes clarity always beats cleverness in B2B messaging—and how to avoid “junk food” copywritingThe seven messaging principles Collin uses to drive alignment across product, marketing, and salesHow to translate complex products into human-first stories that resonate with buyers (and actually get repeated by sales)The...2025-05-1349 minHoly Shift#22 - The Cost of Growth at All Costs with David Royall (Subsplash)In this episode we sat down with David Royall, a pastor-turned-product-marketer at Subsplash to talk about:The toll that a growth-at-all-costs ministries take not only on pastors, but on members and volunteers,How sometimes it takes our spouses to help us see the dysfunction we’re living with and used to, And a bit about what his life and career looks like after ministry. 2025-05-0751 minHoly Shift#21 - "I'm being paid to not change my mind" with Brian ReckerIn this episode we sat town with Brian Recker, an ex-pastor and author of the forthcoming book Hell Bent to talk abouthis journey into and out of ministry,the pressure pastors face to not change their minds,and the ways that disappointment can become our greatest teacher.2025-04-231h 02Holy Shift#20 - Purpose, lost time, and life after ministry (an Ask Me Anything with Collin)For our 20th episode we wanted to pause and do an Ask Me Anything episode.Collin sits down to address a few questions from Shifties, questions like: - How do I find purpose after leaving ministry?- How do I make peace with all the time I lost in ministry? - How do I talk to people who don't understand why I'm leaving?If you've listened to Holy Shift so far, thank you. It's a gift to have you as a part of...2025-04-0932 minHoly Shift#19 - "Go ahead and waste your life" with Andy SquyresWhat if it's okay to live a totally ordinary life? In this episode of Holy Shift we sat down with Andy Squyres to talk about:his journey from worship pastor to writer and songwriter,evangelicalism's limited vocabulary for pain and suffering,how to break the cycle of trying to live an extraordinary life, and Andy's take on not becoming cynical after leaving ministry. 2025-03-121h 11Holy Shift#18 - When Narcissism Comes to Church with Chuck DeGroat (Author, Therapist)What do you do when a leader's public persona doesn't match who they are behind the scenes?In this episode we sat down with Chuck DeGroat. Chuck is a therapist, a professor at Western Seminary in Holland MI, and the author of 5 books (Including When Narcissism Comes to Church, and most recently Healing What’s Within: And this episode was a deep dive on all things narcissistic church leadership.In this episode Chuck: gave us an operating definition of nar...2025-02-1950 minHoly Shift#17 - I Kissed Ministry Goodbye with Joshua HarrisIn this episode we sat down with Joshua Harris.
Beyond authoring I Kissed Dating Goodbye, Josh as a pastor and ministry leader for years, so we sat down and chatted about:
- Josh's transition out of ministry,
- What it's like to change your mind,
- and having compassion of former versions of yourself.
This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift
This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
2025-02-051h 05Holy Shift#15 - Speak Up or Stay Quiet? with Joseph Peterson (Fohrm Studio)What do you do when you disagree with church leadership?
In this episode we sat down with Joseph Peterson (Founder of Fohrm Studio) to talk through the complicated choice between speaking up and staying quiet.
If you want to reach out to Joseph for creative work you can at fohrm. studio
If you want to follow what Joseph is doing at Commoners, you can do that at commoners.co
This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free...2025-02-041h 12
Product Marketing LifeThe past, present and future of product marketing with Jeff Hardison, CalendlyIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, host Collin Mayjack sits down with Jeff Hardison, the VP of Product Marketing at Calendly. They dive deep into Jeff's perspective on the evolution of product marketing, from its origins in consumer brands to its current state in the tech industry. 2025-01-2441 minHoly Shift#16 - From YWAM to IHOP to Real Estate with Candace HagenWhat do you do when you feel like it's time to leave but everyone is telling you that you just need to pray more?In this episode we sit down with Candace Hagen to talk about:- her journey from ministry to real estate- the cognitive dissonance of leaving ministry- and Candace’s advice for anyone wanting to jump into a new career after ministryThis episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift...2025-01-2256 minProduct Marketing LifeCrafting effective GTM strategies for startups with Jonathan Pipek, CEO, Blue Manta ConsultingIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, host Collin Mayjack sits down with Jonathan Pipek, a seasoned product marketing consultant, to dive deep into the world of startup product marketing. Jonathan shares his insights on the importance of getting the fundamentals right before investing in big marketing campaigns. He emphasizes the need for startups to focus on building a strong foundation around their ICP, positioning, messaging, and go-to-market strategy before attempting to scale through advertising or other channels.2025-01-1045 minHoly Shift#14 - Christmas Eve StoriesFrom freezing temperatures and fire codes, to angry emails and fractured relationship, working at a church on Christmas eve is... something.
In this episode we sat down with 4 ex-pastors to hear their stories of working in a church on Christmas Eve and a bit of what Christmas Eve looks like now that they don't work in ministry.
This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift
This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
2024-12-1747 minProduct Marketing LifeUnicorns, pricing and naming with Matt Hodges, Head of Product Marketing, EqualsIn this episode of the Product Marketing Life podcast, Collin Mayjack sits down with Matt Hodges, the Head of Product Marketing at Equals. Matt shares his impressive product marketing journey, from his early days at Atlassian to his experiences at high-growth companies like Intercom and Loom.Throughout the conversation, Matt provides valuable insights into building pricing models, navigating product naming decisions, and the challenges of scaling a product marketing function. He also reflects on the importance of understanding your target audience and being willing to adapt as the market evolves.2024-12-1059 minHoly Shift#13 - PIPs, panic attacks, and copywriting with Charlie Sells (Clarity Over Everything)What happens when you leave your job in ministry with no plan?
In this episode we sat down with Charlie Sells (Founder of Clarity Over Everything) to chat about:
the experience of working in a Christian Company after leaving ministry,
interview panic attacks,
and Charlie's journey into copywriting.
This episode is sponsored by Launch Point. Take your free quiz at ministrytomarketplace.co/holyshift
This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song in this episode is "Gypsy...2024-12-041h 03Product Marketing LifeThe #1 thing to know about launching free trials with Allison RonaIn this episode of the Product Marketing Life podcast, host Collin Mayjack sits down with Allison Rona, a Director of Product Marketing and PMA ambassador. Allison shares her firsthand experience launching a free trial at a sales-led organization, providing valuable insights into the complexities and challenges involved.2024-11-2241 minHoly Shift#12 - Entrepreneurship and Choosing to Stay with Ben Crandall (Banner Coffee Co)What if ministry is keeping you from exploring parts of your self?
In this episode Collin sat down with Ben Crandall, the owner of Banner Coffee Co in Arroyo Grande, California.
This episode was a deep dive on entrepreneurship. We covered:
Ben’s journey from ministry to opening a coffee shop,
the sense of internal drive and wrestling that led him to make the jump,
the highs and lows of entrepreneurship,
and Ben’s decision to stay a part of...2024-11-201h 03Product Marketing LifeThe good, bad, and spicy of transparent pricing with Madeleine WorkHost Collin Mayjack spoke to Madeleine, the Product Marketing Manager at Chili Piper, about her career transition, as well as her company’s unique approach to product marketing, transparent pricing, and positioning.2024-11-0839 minHoly Shift#11 - High proof preaching & the inner voice with Jordan Hughes (@highproofpreacher)What happens when a pastor starts making cocktail content in his free time?
In this episode we sat down with Jordan Hughes (@highproofpreacher on Instagram) to chat through:
Jordan's journey from preacher to high proof preacher
the pros and cons of monetizing a hobby
and listening to your inner voice
This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.
2024-11-071h 00Holy Shift#10 - "This is not okay. I am not okay." with Kaitlynn Wagner (former pastor at Christ Church of the Valley)What if ministry is making your hair fall out?
In this episode we sat down with Kaitlynn Wagner (former pastor at Christ Church of the Valley) to talk through:
The anxiety that pushed her out of ministry
Moving to a new city after leaving ministry
and her path to becoming a therapist.
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This episode is edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA.2024-10-2351 minProduct Marketing Life"Death to one-page product documents" with Logan Hendrickson, PM Lead at 15FiveIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, host Collin Mayjack caught up with Logan Hendrickson, Product Marketing Lead at 15Five. If you’re tired of churning out one-pagers for your sales team, this one’s for you.2024-10-1439 minHoly Shift#9 - Pop punk, pastoring, and product marketing with Anthony Pierri (FletchPMM, Good Hangs)What does pastoring have to do with pop punk and product marketing?
In this episode Collin sat down with Anthony Pierri (FletchPMM, Good Hangs) to chat through:
- Anthony's journey into (and out of) ministry,
- tech product marketing,
- being an Enneagram 3,
- and the unexpected ministry of Good Hangs (@goodhangsband)
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This episode was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The songs featured in this episode are "Gypsy Queen"...2024-10-0956 minHoly Shift#8 - The ministry magnifying glass with Andres Rodriguez (The Village Church)In this episode Collin sits down with his friend Andres Rodriguez (former pastor at the Village Church turned real estate appraiser) to talk about:
- performance and power dynamics in ministry,
- in groups and out groups,
- and finding community after ministry
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This episode was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song featured in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA2024-09-2550 minHoly Shift#7 - You Can't Speed Up Grief with Matthias Barker (Therapist, Co-Founder of The Trauma Institute)Grief takes time.
In this episode we sat down with Matthias Barker (Therapist and Co-Founder of The Trauma Institute) to talk about:
Matthias' experience feeling born and bred to be a pastor,
the homesickness he felt leaving ministry,
his path to becoming a therapist,
and healing from grief along the way.
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This episode was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song featured in this episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA2024-09-041h 00Product Marketing LifeBringing your product into the foreground with Jeff Chase, Mary Lim and Rachel SheldonIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, Collin Mayjack sits down with Jeff Chase, Mary Lim, and Rachel Sheldon to do a deep dive on interactive storytelling and product adoption. The Vitally team shared how they built their interactive demos from the ground up, the role that demos play in their customer journey, and how they build product guides that don’t get ignored2024-08-3045 minHoly Shift#6 - Ministry, ambition, and the plastic self – Cass Curry (LinkedIn, ex-Willow Creek)What if leaving ministry meant you could be your true self?
In this episode, Collin sits down with Cass Curry (Account Executive at LinkedIn) to talk about:
In-N-Out Burger
Cass’ journey from Willow Creek to LinkedIn
ambition
and showing up as your true, whole self.
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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA
2024-08-211h 00Holy Shift#5 - "My loyalty isn't to my job" with Conner Smith (Account Executive at Limble)What do you do when your loyalty isn't to your job anymore?
In this episode Collin sits down with Conner Smith (Account Executive at Limble) to talk about:
Conner’s journey from SDR to AE in 6 months
Finding and living your “why” after ministry
And dreaming small
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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song featured in the episode is "Gypsy Queen" by RÓSA
2024-08-0744 minProduct Marketing LifeDesigning narratives customers actually resonate with, Marcus Andrews, PendoIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, host Collin Mayjack sits down with the king of narrative design, Marcus Andrews.Collin and Marcus talk about how narrative design can help you gain influence, writing narratives that your customers actually resonate with, and how you know your narrative is working.2024-08-0244 minHoly Shift#4 - Why Leaving Ministry feels like Death with Josh Saenz (Founder of Compel You)Who am I if I'm not a pastor?
In this episode Collin sits down with his friend, mentor, and former boss Josh Saenz (Founder of Compel You).
Collin and Josh dive into:
why (exactly) leaving ministry feels like a death,
the role family played in their transitions out of ministry,
and the pain of not knowing who you are outside of ministry.
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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
The song featured in the...2024-07-241h 02Product Marketing Life"Be 10 times bolder in your career" with Yi Lin PeiIn this episode of the Product Marketing Life podcast, Collin Mayjack sits down with Yi Lin Pei, a renowned career coach and founder of Courageous Careers. Yi Lin Pei brings a wealth of experience from her own journey in product marketing and offers invaluable insights into building a fulfilling and strategic career.2024-07-1954 minHoly Shift#3 - Getting Clear on your Career After Ministry with Todd Linder (Founder of Launch Point)So you left ministry, but what kind of job should you go after next?
In this Episode of Holy Shift, Collin sits down with the kind of ex-pastor career transitions – Todd Linder.
Collin and Todd talk about:
Todd’s complicated, 2 year journey out of ministry,
How Todd landed his first role,
Why saying “I just want to help people” won’t actually help you,
And how to get clear on your career after ministry.
Check out Todd's special offer for Shifties here:
2024-07-1057 minHoly Shift#2 - "I'd rather not live two different lives" with Brandon Perkins (Sales at Responsive)Ex-ministry existential crisis. 🚨
In the second episode of Holy Shift, Collin sat down with his friend and fellow Portland ex-Pastor Brandon Perkins (Sales at Responsive.io).
Collin and Brandon talk about:
- Brandon's journey leaving ministry,
- the existential crisis that followed,
- how Brandon found his career in tech sales,
- and how leaving ministry changed them.
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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.
T...2024-07-0348 minHoly Shift#1 - "I do not stay in my lane" with Trevor Cragg (Customer Success at GoFundMe)In the first Episode of Holy Shift, Collin sits down with his friend (and new coworker) Trevor Cragg (Manager of Customer Success at GoFundMe).
Collin and Trevor chat about:
- Trevor's Transition out of ministry
- How he landed his first role at GoFundMe
- How he's climbed the career ladder since being there,
- and Trevor's take on the worst piece of career advice ever.
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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by Fohrm Studio.2024-06-2648 minHoly ShiftTrailer: Holy ShiftA 3 minute teaser from Episode 1 of Holy Shift.
Curious what Holy Shift is going to be all about? Take a few minutes to listen to this 3 minute teaser from Episode 1.
Collin dives into:
- what Holy Shift is
- why Holy Shift exists
- and what you can expect from every episode.
Episode 1 will air in it's entirety on June 26, 2024.
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This episode of Holy Shift was edited and produced by...2024-06-2203 minProduct Marketing LifePMM charters and proof customers actually believe, with Mark Huber and Alex Eaton from UserEvidenceIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, our host Collin Mayjack sits down with the boys behind UserEvidence, Mark Huber & Alex Eaton. Mark peeled back the curtain on his first PMM hire, Alex shared about building his PMM charter, and the three of them talked about what UserEvidence does best – customer proof. 2024-06-0743 minProduct Marketing Life“Nobody cares about your vision” with Anthony Pierri, Co-Founder of FletchPMMIn this episode of Product Marketing Life, host Collin Mayjack and guest Anthony Pierri, Co-Founder of FletchPMM, talk about throwing out your product vision, finding clear homepage messaging, and what product marketers can learn from the Baja Men. 2024-04-1256 minProduct Marketing LifeFighting friendly with Andy McCotter-Bicknell, Head of Competitive Intel at Apollo.ioOn this episode of Product Marketing Life, host Collin Mayjack is joined by Andy McCotter-Bicknell, Head of Competitive Intelligence at Apollo. They delve into the world of competitive analysis – covering Andy's gradual transition from ZoomInfo to their major rival Apollo, common myths about competitive intelligence, and strategies for differentiating your offering while still presenting competitors in a fair light.2024-03-2955 min
We're Not MarketersSecuring quick wins by building internal relationships w/ Collin MayjackTimestamps:01:37: Transitioning from non-profit to tech2:02: Collin's background as a preacher up to product marketing4:47: Are product marketers actually marketers?7:32: Collin's approach as a founding PMM09:32: Defining product marketing in a new role11:16: The importance of building relationships12:29: Balancing short-term and long-term goals14:30: Leadership in product marketing16:25: The importance of building credibility18:12: Setting boundaries and building respect21:11: The rule of reciprocity in product marketing23:51: Sharing and building credibility 27:38: Lightning round ...2024-02-1535 min