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Jonathan P. Gertler

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Back Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportA Capital Markets Outlook for 2025: 2024, A Year in ReviewIn this DNB//Back Bay Healthcare Capital Markets podcast episode, Jim Cirenza, Head of Fixed Income and Equities at DNB, Kristoffer Braaten, Director and Head of Equity Capital Markets at DNB, and Vasilios Kofitsas, Partner and Managing Director of Investment Banking at Back Bay Life Science Advisors, review the performance of the healthcare markets in 2024, offering insights into what 2025 could bring. With a detailed analysis of market trends, IPO activities, and investor behaviors, they evaluate the past year's challenges and the cautious optimism prevailing in the sector as the new year unfolds. As well, there's an emphasis on the...2025-02-0715 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportNavigating Healthcare Capital Markets in 2025: A Year of Cautious OptimismIn this DNB//Back Bay Healthcare Capital Markets podcast episode, Jim Cirenza, Head of Fixed Income and Equities at DNB, Kristoffer Braaten, Director and Head of Equity Capital Markets at DNB, and Vasilios Kofitsas, Partner and Managing Director of Investment Banking at Back Bay Life Science Advisors, review the performance of the healthcare markets in 2024, offering insights into what 2025 could bring. With a detailed analysis of market trends, IPO activities, and investor behaviors, they evaluate the past year's challenges and the cautious optimism prevailing in the sector as the new year unfolds. As well, there's an emphasis on the...2025-02-0616 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Optimism of Bispecific AntibodiesThe topic of bispecific antibodies has been an area of interest in the pharma space for a long time now. The recent news of the notable late-stage data from Akeso and Summit’s PD-1/VEGF bispecific antibody ivonescimab to treat non-small cell lung cancer that has captured the industry writ large encouraged us to revisit the topic. To date, there have been ten bispecific antibody approvals in oncology, seven of which are for hematological malignancies. Recently, there has been more traction in development pipelines for solid tumors. Most bispecific antibody approvals are currently or projected to be abo...2024-11-0826 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportDynamics in Healthcare Focused MarketsIn this DNB//Back Bay Healthcare Capital Markets Episode, Vasilios Kofitsas, Partner and Managing Director at Back Bay Life Science Advisors speaks with Jim Cirenza and Kristoffer Braaten of DNB Bank in New York. They focus on key drivers affecting markets this year and discuss the recent news of the Fed’s decision to cut interest rates by 50-basis points. Topics in the podcast include: After two difficult years, the appearance of a healthy market rotation since July The Fed’s decision mid-September to cut rates by 50 basis points Healthcare IPOs: historical and recent a...2024-09-3020 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportFrom NASH to MASH: Current Market Dynamics in HepatologyAfter a summer away from podcasting, Back Bay Life Science Advisors’ Dr. Pete Bak and Christian Thienel are back on the mic to discuss current market dynamics in liver disease with a focus on one of the most closely watched space in hepatology, MASH. The big news includes a rebrand from NASH (non-alcohol related steatohepatitis) to MASH (metabolic dysfunction-associated steatohepatitis), the FDA approval of Madrigal Pharmaceutical’s Rezdiffra and real-time court rulings in Europe that may affect the rate of play for Ocaliva, a drug used to treat adults with primary biliary cholangitis here in th...2024-09-1628 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportKey Considerations for a US Healthcare IPOIn this DNB//Back Bay Healthcare Capital Markets podcast episode, learn about the key considerations, mechanics and timelines of going public on a US exchange.  Topics in this podcast include:  An overview of the decision-making process through execution for US-based and ex-US healthcare companies thinking about listing in the USCore considerations after deciding to pursue a US listing and how to prepare most effectivelyBuilding the “IPO advisory team”: types of advisors (legal, accounting, banking, IR firms, IP, etc.) and when to bring them inKey documents and associated timelines related to the S...2024-05-2235 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportDrug Development in ObesityGuests: Pete Bak and Christian Thienel Length: 27 minutes In this episode of The Life Science Report, Dr. Pete Bak and Back Bay Director, Christian Thienel catch up on the area attracting the most industry interest over the past couple of years: the anti-obesity space. From big players looking to capitalize on the renewed interest in the obesity space to the staggering success of Novo Nordisk’s and Eli Lilly’s GLP-1 agonists (Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro, and Zepbound) for glycemic control and weight loss, there’s a lot to cover...2024-04-3026 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Current Dynamics in Capital MarketsWelcome to another episode with the DNB//Back Bay Partnership for Healthcare.In this episode Jonathan Gertler, Back Bay CEO and Managing Partner, is once again joined by James Cirenza, Head of Fixed Income and Equities at DNB, Kristoffer Braaten, Director of US Equity Capital Markets at DNB, and Vasilios Kofitsas, Managing Director of Investment Banking at Back Bay Life Science Advisors, to talk about current market dynamics and the 2024 IPO outlook in the US and in Europe.Topics in this podcast include:Trends, cycles and the current state of capital markets in Europe...2024-04-1522 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportVaccine Developments 2024: A Podcast Discussion on Latest Vaccine Technology and Ongoing Clinical DevelopmentsGuests: Pete Bak and Christian Thienel Length: 37 minutes With the advent of COVID-19 in 2020 and 2021, we saw a tremendous amount of interest in not only COVID vaccines, but other companies riding the tailwind and developing vaccine therapies that span across viral illness, maternal infections and bacterial infections. In this episode resident immunologist Dr. Pete Bak and Christian Thienel discuss vaccine technology, up-and-coming areas of interest, such as RSV, and the vaccines currently in late-stage clinical development. Topics in this podcast include: Vac...2024-03-1837 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportTrends and Investment Activity in Radiopharmaceuticals and PsychedelicsA Podcast Discussion on the Trends and Investment Activity in Radiopharmaceuticals and PsychedelicsGuests: Pete Bak and Christian ThienelLength: 25 minutesHere at Back Bay we’ve seen a number of notable trends in the radiopharmaceutical and psychedelic spaces playing out over the past couple of years. Increasingly, investors have been asking our opinions and perspectives on these topics.Our team has written these whitepapers to address industry interest:The Radiopharmaceutical Renaissance: Radiating Hope in MedicineVision of Commercial Success: Investment and Partnering Landscape for PsychedelicsIn th...2024-02-1425 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportVertex’s Exa-cel to Biogen and Sage’s Zurzuvae: Notable Product Approvals of 2023As we move into 2024, Back Bay’s strategic advisors summarize key product approvals from three classes and indications over this past year, including the December CRISPR and Vertex approval of Exa-cel, Biogen and Sage’s August approval of an oral treatment for women with postpartum depression and Genmab and Roche’s May approval in oncology.   In this episode:  CRISPR and Vertex’s approval of Exa-cel, the first CRISPR-based genetic medicine approved by the FDA in the US The major depressive disorder vs. postpartum depression for Biogen/Sage GenMab and Roche approvals AbbVie acquisition of Cerevel Therap...2024-01-0325 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportMonthly Roundup of News from Healthcare DevelopmentIn our latest podcast, Back Bay Life Science Advisors focused on the chronic and rare disease development of kidney disease. Recently, there have been some changes in treatment, some recent commercial launches and certainly some interest from pharma consolidators, as M&A activity picks up in this area. In this next installment of The Life Science Report, Dr. Pete Bak and Christian Thienel of Back Bay Life Science Advisors talk about kidney disease and the various aspects of the renal disease landscape. Topics in this podcast include:The links between ca...2023-11-0730 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Current and Future Landscape of Healthcare IPO MarketsWith the DNB//Back Bay Partnership for HealthcareIn the current markets, Healthcare continues to rally as the second-largest industry behind technology in the stock market, and in the US markets there’s been roughly $2.5B raised from an IPO standpoint YTD. In Europe, the markets have been more challenging, with IPOs for five companies going public this year, including Schott Pharma, Germany’s largest IPO earlier this year.In the first podcast episode with the DNB//Back Bay Partnership for Healthcare, Jonathan Gertler, Back Bay CEO and Managing Partner is joined by Jim Cirenza, Head...2023-10-2723 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Heart of the Matter: Behind the Renewed Interest in Cardiovascular DiseaseA conversation on the rising trends in the cardiology spaceCardiology has historically been a cornerstone of large pharmaceutical portfolios. The late 2000s and 2010s saw many pharmaceutical companies and investors abandon or severely deprioritize cardiology research and development in favor of oncology, immunology, and neurology.During this episode of The Life Science Report, Dr. Pete Bak and Christian Thienel of Back Bay Life Science Advisors discuss the major players in the industry and novel approaches to future cardiology applications.Episode topics include: Why pharma’s interest in specialty-like approaches has shi...2023-10-1224 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Transactional Landscape Of ADCs: The Powerhouse of Antibody Drug ConjugatesIn this episode, Dr. Peter Bak is joined by Trent Gordon and Dr. Mavra Nasir as they discuss their Bioprocess Online article published earlier this year, “The Transactional Landscape of ADCs: A Payday for Payloads.” This conversation explores the dynamics and data within the emerging ADC field, including:Background information on the class of therapeutics known as ADCs, which have been on the market since 2000The number of headlines around ADCs lately, especially the standing ovation the data from Enhertu received at ASCO in 2022, making waves in breast cancer treatmentDeal structures and the BD side of ADCs, and thei...2023-08-2925 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportInvesting in Health Tech & Digital Medicine: Expert Talk with Mikaela Odlander & Edward KliphuisThe world of health tech has changed dramatically since decades ago when physicians had to endure 11 keystrokes to prescribe a single aspirin. These days, AI-based radiology and AI-based pathology are transforming patient lives through machine learning and data analytics, in some cases offering early disease warning systems and improving quality of care while reducing healthcare costs.   In this episode of Back Bay’s industry podcast, the Life Science Report, Jonathan Gertler speaks with Mikaela Odlander, Director of Digital Therapeutics at Orexo, and Edward Kliphuis, Partner at Sofinnova Partners, about the opportunities and challenges ahead in the...2023-04-1529 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportContingencies for Biopharma, Medtech Deal Planning in a Down MarketFor biopharma and medtech companies developing new treatments, capital for advancement and growth is invariably dependent on strategic preparation, differentiation, and persistence. Good preparation can mean funding or famine in a retracted market—and ultimately can impact the trajectory of a company and whether treatment reaches people in the clinical setting. In a down market, there are creative and thoughtful approaches companies can take to stand out as capital becomes more closely guarded and the competition becomes fierce.  In this episode of Back Bay’s industry podcast, the Life Science Report, Jonatha...2023-02-0928 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportGene Editing to Cross-Species Transplantation: The Most Compelling Healthcare Stories of 2022In our first podcast episode of 2023, Back Bay’s strategic advisors summarize some of the most compelling healthcare development stories from 2022. From CRISPR and gene editing advancement to cross-species organ transplantation and the latest in the evolving regulatory and reimbursement landscape,  these stories captivated us and continue to herald progress in health and human care. Podcast experts include Brendan Wang, Christian Thienel and Peter Bak, with special thanks to Micheka Fenelon.2023-01-2437 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportPreparing BioPharma and Medtech Companies for Public Listing - Back Bay Life Science Advisors and Nasdaq NordicFor biopharma and medtech companies, the decision to go public is predicated on many business decisions—what kind of capital can be raised? Is our investor base strong and interested? Is now the right time? The Nordic Markets offer some distinct advantages at the earlier stage, and also offer new possibilities for US companies to list abroad. And although the specific logistical and mechanical aspects are exceedingly important, at the end of the day, the decision to do something like this is predicated on an amalgam of strategic decisions. In this episode Back Bay Lif...2022-09-2028 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Promising Field of Targeted Protein Degraders (TPDs)with Back Bay Life Science Advisors’ Dr. Peter Bak and Dr. Mavra NasirDr. Mavra Nasir recently published a thought piece in Biopharma Dealmakers outlining the current state of play in the promising field of protein degradation. In this episode, Dr. Nasir sits down with Peter Bak to discuss the recent surge of venture funding and partnerships surrounding TPDs.Read Dr. Nasir's article "From drug target inhibition to degradation: a TACtical strategy" here. Topics in this podcast include:An intro into targeted protein degradation (TPDs) and proteolysis-targeting chimeras (PROTACs)Industry adv...2022-07-3023 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportEarly Market Access and Pricing with Pete Bak, Christian Thieniel and Brendan WangThis is the first episode in our podcast series of Q&As on biopharma and medtech development—directly from active developers. Our podcast listeners, including Back Bay clients, have submitted timely and relevant questions about life science development and the daily challenges they face.Christian Thieniel and Brendan Wang, two senior members of the Back Bay Life Science Advisors team with a tremendous amount of experience in the life sciences, especially as it relates to scientific, clinical and commercial issues, offer guidance on issues related to pricing and early market access.Topics include:For ea...2022-07-0629 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportLiving Medicines – Current and Future Uses of Car T Cells with Peter Bak, PhD and Mike Bogetofte Barnkob, MD, PhDIn this episode of Back Bay’s industry podcast, The Life Science Report, Dr. Peter Bak is joined by Mike Bogetofte Barnkob, a doctor with the Department of Clinical Immunology at Odense University Hospital in Denmark and a research fellow at the University of Southern Denmark, to discuss current perspectives—clinical, scientific and manufacturing—on the cell therapy space. Dr. Barnkob’s expertise spans basic and clinical immunology, with a particular interest in advanced cellular modalities, such as chimeric antigen or CAR T-cells. He studied at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in Back Bay’s hometown, and completed h...2022-05-1929 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Evolving Regulatory Framework for Novel Medicines in the EUBiopharma companies looking to establish a footprint in Europe face country-specific decision-making processes. The health technology assessments (HTAs) in France and Germany, for example, look very different.Does this regional level of thinking make it easier or potentially more difficult to get medicines to market and into the hands of patients who need them?In this episode of Back Bay’s Life Science podcast, Pete Bak is joined by Alexander Natz, Secretary-General of the European Confederation of Pharmaceutical Entrepreneurs (EUCOPE), Europe’s principal trade body for companies working in the field of pharma, biot...2022-04-2525 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Commercial Potential of Optogenetic TherapiesFifteen years ago, scientists discovered optogenetics, a technique of using light to stimulate light-sensitive receptors in order to turn brain cells “on” and “off" at the flip of a switch. Advances in optogenetics have allowed this technology to move from the laboratory to humans, and more recently biopharma companies have been quick to incorporate optogenetic therapies into their ophthalmology portfolios.In this episode of Back Bay’s Life Science Report, Peter Bak is joined by Kevin Norman to discuss the promise and commercial considerations of optogenetics.Topics include:The basic principles of optogenetics and the dise...2022-03-1523 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Latest on Antibiotic Development, Back Bay Life Science Advisors with AntabioAntibiotics act as a safety net for all of healthcare. They make medical procedures such as surgeries, childbirth and cancer treatments possible, but what happens when bacteria or other microorganisms become resistant to the drugs we use against them? Back Bay Life Science Advisors’ Managing Director Peter Bak sits down with Marc Lemonnier, a molecular and cellular microbiologist and CEO of Antabio, a clinical stage company located in France developing novel antibiotic therapies, for a conversation on the current clinical landscape of novel agents to address antimicrobial resistance and the regional and global initiatives to tackle the iss...2022-01-1922 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportBest Practices for Successful Sell-Side Licensing, Partnering and M&ADespite the heavy influx of capital over the past years, medtech or biopharma sell-side assignments can still be ripe with challenges. In this episode of Back Bay’s industry podcast, Back Bay Life Science Advisors’ investment banking team discuss best practices for successful sell-side licensing, partnering, and M&A, including: Best practices for readying vital aspects of deal preparation Identifying deal issues, red flags ahead of timeArticulation of the path forward, including indication and proof of concept and telling the story through to marketThe importance of choosing the right partner and alignment for stakeholders, management, board, investors, internal champi...2022-01-0725 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportCell and Gene Therapy Investment TrendsCell and gene therapies are currently among the hottest investments in the biotech space, both in the public and private markets. In this episode, Back Bay’s Managing Director and host Pete Bak, PhD is joined by Kyle O’Neil and Brendan Wang, who are returning to the podcast after attending the 2021 Cell and Gene Meeting on the Mesa. Tune in to hear their discussion on emerging investment themes and which ones were key topics of discussion at this year’s conference.Topics include:The next generation of gene-editing technologyCRISPR 2.0Off-target effectsNovel nucleasesPAM sequencesAutologous and Allogeneic CAR-T...2021-11-2219 minTHE MUSICAL UNIVERSE OF PROFESSOR HURSTTHE MUSICAL UNIVERSE OF PROFESSOR HURSTEPISODE FIFTY-FOUR, interview with Singer/Songwriter Jonathan Paull GertlerJonathan Paull Gertler is a former vascular surgeon who turned to music to express important and impactful meaning through his lyrics.  His music is a joy and you will enjoy learning more about his music.  My discovery composer of the week is John Abraham Fisher.2021-11-021h 12Back Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportMedTech Investing with Paul LaViolette of SV Health Investors and Jonathan P. Gertler, MD, Back Bay Life Science Advisors and BioVentures Medtech Funds“I have a deep belief that medtech and healthtech are going to carry us forward to markedly improve delivery and quality of healthcare.”  - Jonathan P. Gertler, MD For years, biotech has been the dominant theme in life sciences development, offering a great deal in treatment advances and in terms of investing versatility and returns potential. But with promising system solutions serving broader swaths of patients, medtech is resurging. Medtech investment has grown dramatically over time, with scale and diversification capable of weathering economic storms and fueling expansion in the markets. 2021-10-1326 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportRemote Patient MonitoringOne of the unexpected outcomes of the COVID-19 pandemic has been the rapid and widespread uptake of remote patient monitoring. Just ahead of the pandemic, investment in patient monitoring was booming; priming the system for quick uptake and innovation. As with vaccines, much groundwork had been done to prepare for dramatic innovation and widespread, rapid patient use, seemingly “overnight.”In this episode of Back Bay Life Science Advisors' industry podcast, Drs. Jonathan Gertler and Corinne Nawn discuss the clinical considerations of remote patient monitoring, including advances in sensing platforms, wearables, and the current investment landscape driving the inno...2021-08-0526 minNFT Origin StoriesNFT Origin StoriesFEWOCIOUS | NFT Origin Stories #38FEWOCiOUS exudes authenticity, passion for creation, and a love for art. He is an 18 year old transgender artist who is an icon in the digital art NFT space, with his most recent collection - Hello, i'm Victor (FEWOCiOUS) and This Is My Life - having been featured at Christie's Auction House. Origin Stories welcomes FEWOCiOUS to discuss: 00:00 - Introduction 01:31 - What is your origin story? 08:08 - What were your dreams growing up? 13:06 - How a challenging family environment became inspiration 16:34 - Confidence, influences, and icons 19:45...2021-07-231h 38Back Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportNew Drug Pricing and Market AccessIn this episode of our life science industry podcast, Dr. Peter Bak sits down with Brendan Wang and Christian Thienel of Back Bay Life Science Advisors to discuss how pharmaceutical companies price their drugs.  They cover the ins and outs of health economics, how payers make sense of a high price, and ways this varies around the globe. With a focus on Biogen’s recent Aduhelm approval, the discussion includes how Biogen likely went about price setting and how this aligns with ICER’s initial evaluation and analysis.Topics in this podcast include:Relevant pricin...2021-06-3026 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportThe Question of Investment in AntimicrobialsIn this episode Jonathan Gertler, Back Bay’s CEO and Managing Partner, sits down with Dr. Peter Bak, Managing Director at Back Bay, to discuss Dr. Bak’s latest article in STAT News and to talk about the world of anti-infectives.Dr. Bak has more than ten years of expertise in infection and treatment. He began his research at Dartmouth Medical School and later continued at MIT, where he was an American Cancer Society Postdoctoral Fellow at the Koch Institute of Integrative Cancer Research.Topics include:-The landscape of antiinfectives, antimicrobials & antifungals -How comm...2021-06-1125 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportLife Science SPACs: A Forward Look at this Evolving Asset ClassWelcome to Episode #2 of The Life Science Report. In this week’s episode Jonathan Gertler, Back Bay’s CEO and Managing Partner, is joined by Gregory Benning and Vasilios Kofitsas of Back Bay’s investment banking team to talk about the market of Special Purpose Acquisition Companies (SPACs).The feeling surrounding healthcare SPACs right now is almost...giddy. With enormous capital flowing into the biotech sector, SPACs have emerged as one of the hottest financing options. Last year, the market saw $80B in SPAC issuance, which 2021 will far exceed.We’re still in the beginning of this...2021-06-0325 minBack Bay Life Science ReportBack Bay Life Science ReportGene Therapies: What’s to Come as The Industry Moves ForwardWelcome to Episode 1 of The Life Science Report. In this episode our host, Dr. Peter Bak, sits down with Brendan Wang and Kyle O’Neil of Back Bay Life Science Advisors to discuss the field of gene therapies and insights from their recently authored piece in Cell & Gene, “The Next Decade In Gene Therapy Innovation — 6 Critical Questions (And Answers),” and their newly released white paper on BBLSA.com.Gene therapy has been talked about for many years, and it’s only in the past few years that we’ve begun to see some initial products make it to market. W...2021-06-0221 minPerpetual Chess PodcastPerpetual Chess PodcastEP.185 - IM Stuart RachelsIn 1993 IM Stuart Rachels was one of the top young chess players in the United States. He was the winner of  the U.S. Junior Championship in 1988, was United States co-champion in 1989-1990, and had played casual and tournament games with the likes of GM Garry Kasparov, GM Viswanathan Anand, GM Boris Spassky, and many others. So why did he decide to hang up the chessboard when he pursued a doctorate in philosophy? Stu answers this question in our interview, as well as discussing a few of the highlights from his great new book The Best I Saw in Chess. I...2020-07-141h 22Pharmaceutical ExecutivePharmaceutical ExecutiveEpisode 58: Understanding FDA’s Gene Therapy GuidelinesDr. Jonathan Gertler, CEO of Back Bay Life Science Advisors, and Dr. Stephan Gauldie, Managing Director of Back Bay, talk about the new guidelines set forth by FDA in regard to gene therapy, and what those new parameters mean for pharma and biotech.2020-06-1119 minListen to the Best Full Audiobooks in Mystery, Thriller & Horror, SuspenseListen to the Best Full Audiobooks in Mystery, Thriller & Horror, SuspenseBaker Street Irregulars 2: The Game is Afoot by Michael VentrellaPlease visit https://thebookvoice.com/podcasts/1/audiobook/334722 to listen full audiobooks. Title: Baker Street Irregulars 2: The Game is Afoot Series: #2 of Alternate Sherlock Holmes Project Author: Michael Ventrella Narrator: Jamie Jackson, Korey Jackson, Jonathan Todd Ross, Karen Chilton Format: Unabridged Audiobook Length: 10 hours 8 minutes Release date: May 18, 2018 Genres: Suspense Publisher's Summary: Sherlock Holmes is one of the most iconic and lasting figures in literature. His feats of detection are legendary, and he continues to capture audiences today in stories, movies, and on TV. In this new edition of Baker Street Irregulars, authors present the iconic detective in over a dozen w...2018-05-1803 min