Shows
The Modern Pain PodcastWhy We Need a Revolution in Pain Care (And How You Can Lead It)Are you tired of surface-level solutions in pain care? In this episode, Mark Kargela pulls back the curtain on the massive gap in pain programming and why our current clinical education models are failing both patients and providers.Mark introduces the Pain Practice OS—a structured, mentored, and market-ready program to help clinicians finally deliver meaningful, psychologically informed care.Whether you’re a physical therapist, chiropractor, or coach working with people in pain, this episode is your call to step up, lead, and transform your community.✅ Learn the flaws in traditional continuing education✅...2025-07-2828 min
Clinical CommunicationGuiding & Supporting Those With Persistent Pain with Dr Mark KargelaMore resources are becoming available on how to supportthose with persistent pain, yet challenging conversations can still occur, especially when someone is still going through a medical journey and expectations are still uncertain.This episode is a recording between Ben and Dr Mark Kargela, Specialist Physical Therapist in Persistent Pain, on Mark’s “Modern Pain Podcast” where they discuss: (00:00) – Introduction(05:42) – How Communication Knowledge Has Evolved Over Time(11:26) – Guided Discovery & Open Questions(23:32) – Managing Diagnostic Uncertainty(32:28) – Managing “Fix” Expectations(38:49) – Best Ways To Develop These Skills(45:46) – The Future Of “Explain P...2025-07-2048 minThe Modern Pain PodcastWhy AI Can’t Replace Human Care in Chronic PainAs AI continues to evolve and integrate into more areas of healthcare, many clinicians are asking: will we be replaced? In this episode, Mark Kargela and Ben Whybrow have a frank conversation about how AI is affecting clinical work, what it can (and can’t) do well, and why the human elements of care—empathy, presence, collaboration—remain irreplaceable.You’ll hear how we’re using AI tools like ChatGPT in our content creation and case planning, the limitations we’ve seen in clinical decision-making, and why now is the time for clinicians to lean into the “soft” human sk...2025-07-0624 minClinical CommunicationHow To Sound Like An Expert (Even When You Don’t Feel Like One)It is well known that the more perceived expertise andcompetence we have in someone, the more likely we are to trust them and have a better outcome. This is great if you are a clinician with extensive expertisein a certain area, though not all of us are. But there are ways we can sound like an expert to achieve the same results without being disingenuous. Which is the topic of this short episode.Find this useful? Then do share & subscribe.You can follow Ben across social media @BWhybrowPhysioMark Kargela’s Pa...2025-07-0606 minThe Modern Pain PodcastEscaping the Medical Merry-Go-Round of Chronic PainMany patients are doing something about their pain—but they’re still not living the life they want.In this episode of The Modern Pain Podcast, Dr. Mark Kargela breaks down how to help patients zoom out and reflect on whether their care is truly moving them toward what matters most—or just keeping them stuck in a cycle of appointments and short-term relief.You’ll learn:✅ Why “the medical merry-go-round” fails patients with complex pain✅ How to use simple questions to promote reflection and agency✅ A free download you can u...2025-06-2316 min
The Healthcare Education Transformation Podcast555. Navigating the Gray: Rethinking Pain, Wellness, and the Future of Physical TherapyIn this episode of the Healthcare Education Transformation Podcast, Dr. F. Scott Feil speaks with clinician, educator, and thought leader Dr. Mark Kargela about the limitations of traditional tissue-based physical therapy models and the rise of pain science-informed care. From his own educational journey and disillusionment with manual therapy to embracing ambiguity and patient-centered narratives, Dr. Kargela shares insights on how clinicians can better address the complex 10–20% of patients who don't respond to conventional care. The conversation dives into how physical therapists can use psychologically informed strategies, adopt wellness-based business models, and even leverage epigenetics and culturally aware care to imp...2025-05-2950 min
Whats Best For The Patient Is Best For BusinessLet’s Connect the Front Desk Work with the Providers: PATIENT SUCCESS Interview with Mark Kargela, DPTIn this insightful episode of What’s Best For The Patient Is Best For Business, Jerry sits down with Dr. Mark Kargela, DPT—a seasoned physical therapist, educator, and thought leader in patient-centered care. Mark shares his transformative journey from a manual therapy-focused clinician to embracing a biopsychosocial approach that prioritizes the whole patient—not just their symptoms.Jerry and Mark dive deep into the critical connection between clinical expertise and front-desk operations, exploring how seamless communication and intentional processes can elevate patient outcomes while reducing provider burnout. They discuss the power of active listening, setting realistic expect...2025-04-081h 12The Modern Pain PodcastNeuropathic Pain Made Simple: What Every Clinician Should Know🎙️ Have you ever treated someone with what seemed like a typical MSK problem—but the pain just didn’t add up? Burning, zinging, unpredictable symptoms? In this episode, Mark Kargela breaks down the clinical presentation of neuropathic pain, how to screen for it confidently, and 4 common mistakes that lead to missed diagnoses.✅ Learn how to distinguish neuropathic from nociceptive and nociplastic pain✅ Use simple tools like a paperclip and a coin to screen for small fiber dysfunction✅ Understand how to palpate nerves (not trigger points) and recognize their sensitivity✅ Get clarity on terms like somatic referred...2025-04-0618 minThe Modern Pain PodcastBuilding a Personal Brand in Healthcare | Tom Walters Shares How🎙️ In this episode of The Modern Pain Podcast, Mark Kargela chats with Tom Walters, DPT—founder of Rehab Science, educator, and digital health innovator.Tom shares how he transitioned from a traditional orthopedic physical therapist to building a global online brand helping millions through coaching, education, and his bestselling book. We dive into:✅ Why coaching and education may be more impactful than hands-on care✅ How Rehab Science became a leader in virtual rehab & social media health content✅ Handling criticism in the online health space (and how to grow from it)✅ The dangers of outdated tre...2025-03-2351 minThe Modern Pain PodcastPelvic Health, Outdated Pain Care & Empowering Patients | Sandy Hilton Interview🚨 In this episode of The Modern Pain Podcast, Mark Kargela interviews Sandy Hilton, a pioneering physical therapist and expert in pelvic health and pain care. 🚨Sandy shares her fascinating journey from treating loggers in Oregon to leading change in pelvic health and pain management globally. We discuss why pain care is falling behind, the massive issues with the modified Oswestry assessment, and why treating pain with pain must stop.👉 You’ll learn:• How Sandy entered the world of pelvic health unexpectedly• Why many pain treatments still make thin...2025-03-1648 minThe Modern Pain PodcastEmbracing the Uncertain: Shifting from Tools to Values in Pain CareIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela challenges clinicians to rethink their approach to pain treatment. He discusses how the pursuit of certainty can lead practitioners to rely too heavily on specific tools, neglecting the complexity and individual nature of pain. Using the parable of the blind men and the elephant, he illustrates the pitfalls of mistaking partial perspectives for the whole truth. Mark advocates for a values-based approach, emphasizing the importance of understanding patients' personal goals and experiences to provide meaningful care.*********************************************************************📸 - Follow us on Instagram - https://www.ins...2025-02-2407 minThe Modern Pain PodcastFinding the Balance: Integrating Biomechanics and Psychology in Modern Pain CareIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela discusses the evolution of pain treatment from a solely biomechanical model to a more holistic biopsychosocial approach. Initially rooted in biomechanics, Mark shares his journey of realizing the limitations of this model and the rise of psychologically informed care. He emphasizes the importance of integrating both biomechanics and psychological strategies for effective pain management. Through various patient case studies, Mark illustrates the need for balance and the middle ground in modern pain treatment. He also urges clinicians to move beyond outdated narratives and adopt a more comprehensive approach...2025-02-0208 minThe Modern Pain PodcastFrom Frustration to Transformation: Becoming a Leader in Pain ManagementIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, join Mark Kargela as he discusses the challenges in pain care and the gaps in clinician education. Discover how to provide psychologically informed care and learn about a new comprehensive community-based program designed to empower clinicians as pain management leaders. Mark shares insights on the need for a paradigm shift from quick fixes to lasting, meaningful change and invites you to be part of this transformative journey. Join the waiting list and stay updated on when you can bring your community the pain management it deserves - https://modernpaincare.c...2025-01-1306 minThe Modern Pain PodcastTransforming Illness Care: Solutions for Persistent PainIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela sits down with Jim Stark, an insightful and experienced physical therapist with over 30 years in the field. Jim discusses the limitations of our current 'illness care system' and shares his journey of integrating holistic and spiritual approaches into physical therapy, focusing on chronic and persistent pain. Learn about the importance of being authentic, the concept of narrative medicine, and powerful, practical strategies like breathing exercises for durable impact. Jim also highlights the significance of seeing patients outside the confines of conventional treatment and creating a supportive environment for...2024-12-2934 minThe Modern Pain PodcastOvercoming Uncertainty: Strategies for Young Clinicians with Chris HughenIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Dr. Mark Kargela interviews physical therapist Chris Hughen. Chris shares his journey from aspiring strength coach to established physical therapist, highlighting the importance of mentorship, the pitfalls of chasing certifications, and the value of embracing uncertainty in clinical practice. Chris also discusses how his background in coaching influences his patient interactions and the necessity of maintaining good professional relationships. Tune in for valuable lessons on pain management and building a successful career in physical therapy.Chris' InstagramChris' PodcastE3 Rehab*********************************************************************📸 - Fol...2024-11-0358 minThe Modern Pain PodcastUnlocking Success: The Power of Coaching and Mental Fitness in Pain ManagementJoin us for an insightful episode where host Mark Kargela engages with expert Jen Uschold, a physical therapist and lifestyle medicine coach. Delve into the integration of traditional physical therapy with coaching and mental fitness to foster stronger client-therapist relationships in pain management. Discover the significance of motivational interviewing, emotional intelligence, and 'mental fitness' principles covering positive psychology, performance science, CBT, and neuroscience. Explore the synergistic relationship between Positive Intelligence (PQ) and Physical Therapy (PT), the impact of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), and innovative approaches to managing chronic pain. Learn how to address both manual therapy and cognitive...2024-10-2848 minThe Modern Pain PodcastBeyond the Dichotomy: Transformative Pain Management Beyond Passive and Active MethodsIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, Mark Kargela explores the false dichotomy of passive versus active care in pain management, emphasizing that neither is inherently detrimental. He discusses the unique roles of passive care techniques like manual therapy and active care, which encompasses more than just exercise. Mark highlights the importance of personalized, patient-centered approaches that consider the patient's values and life circumstances. The episode underscores the significant impact of communication skills, advocating for meaningful clinician-patient dialogues to better understand patients' stories and barriers. This approach aims to foster a therapeutic alliance and guide patients back to...2024-10-1310 minThe Modern Pain PodcastHealing Outside Clinic Walls: Harnessing the Environment in Pain CareIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela explores the intersection of environmental considerations and physiotherapy with Filip Maric, Founder of the Environmental Physiotherapy Association, and Jessica Stanhope, a Research Fellow at the University of Adelaide. The discussion delves into the environmental blind spots in physiotherapy practice, emphasizing the importance of incorporating natural environments into treatment settings. The episode highlights research linking green spaces to better health outcomes, such as reduced pain and arthritis, and examines how physiotherapy education can integrate environmental awareness. The conversation invites clinicians to contemplate the physical environments patients interact with, both...2024-10-0746 minThe Modern Pain PodcastFrom Fixer to Guide: Transforming Your Chronic Pain TreatmentIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela is joined by Mathilde Kehler to explore the transformative shift from a 'fixer' to a 'coach' in helping patients manage chronic pain. They delve into the importance of positioning the patient as the main character, focusing on their goals, and leveraging their resources rather than just diagnosing and treating symptoms. Mathilde shares her journey from physiotherapy to creating a pain coach program, emphasizing the need for personalized, patient-centered care. The episode highlights the critical role of communication, listening, and effective questioning in pain management, aiming to build patient...2024-09-2251 minThe Modern Pain PodcastOvercoming Chronic Pain: Lessons from Trevor BarkerIn this episode of The Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela interviews Trevor Barker, a remarkable individual who transitioned from battling chronic pain with a medicalized approach to living well despite the pain. Trevor shares his compelling journey from relying on heavy medications and invasive treatments to embracing a holistic and human-centric approach that significantly improved his quality of life. He details his involvement with Pain Revolution and how community support and shared experiences have played a pivotal role in his ongoing journey. Clinicians and patients alike will find valuable insights into the power of social and psychological factors...2024-08-2645 minThe Modern Pain PodcastPhilosophy of Science in Practice: Insights from Rani Lill Anjum & Elena Roccan this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela discusses the philosophy of science as it pertains to pain research with philosophers Rani Lill Anjum and Elena Rocca. The conversation revolves around their book, which critiques traditional scientific approaches and emphasizes the importance of understanding philosophical biases in research. The trio explores how empirical methods often fail to address the complexity of individual pain experiences, the ethical dilemmas in excluding certain populations from research, and the significance of patient stories in clinical practice. This episode aims to provide clinicians with a deeper understanding of the philosophical underpinnings...2024-08-1956 minThe Modern Pain PodcastEmpowering Patients with POTS: Practical Advice from Emily RichIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela sits down with Emily Rich, an occupational therapist and POTS specialist, to discuss Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) and related conditions like Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and Mast Cell Activation Syndrome. Emily shares her personal journey with POTS, her PhD research, and offers practical tips for clinicians to better identify and manage these complex conditions. Emily emphasizes the importance of humility in clinical practice, the use of occupationally specific exercises, and supportive care strategies. This episode is packed with insights and actionable advice for healthcare professionals looking to improve...2024-08-1152 minThe Modern Pain PodcastManaging Long Covid: Expert Strategies from a Clinician and Lived ExperiencerIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela sits down with clinician and long COVID experiencer, Daria Oller. Daria shares her journey from contracting COVID-19 in March 2020 to becoming an advocate for education and understanding about long COVID. This discussion delves into the complexities of treating long COVID, the importance of listening to patients, the need to move beyond traditional exercise biases, and tips for clinicians on managing the fluctuating symptoms of this condition. The conversation highlights the significance of seeing the patient as a whole person and the crucial role of multidisciplinary approaches in improving...2024-08-0446 minThe Modern Pain PodcastIntegrating Patient-Centered Exercise in Pain ManagementIn this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela dives into the complex relationship between exercise and pain management. He explores traditional beliefs about exercise, discusses graded exposure and graded activity techniques, and emphasizes the importance of personalized, patient-centered approaches. Mark highlights the need to tailor exercise to individual patient preferences and values rather than imposing generic fitness routines. He also discusses the role of narrative and patient mindset in successful pain therapy. Perfect for clinicians seeking to enhance their understanding and methodologies in helping patients with chronic pain*********************************************************************📸 - Follow us on Ins...2024-07-2126 minThe Modern Pain PodcastMaking Sleep Part of Your Practice: Practical Strategies to Incorporate NowEpisode Summary:In this episode of the Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela is joined by Brett Neilson, a physical therapist and professor at Hawaii Pacific University. Recorded live at the Pain Science in Motion conference in Las Vegas, the episode delves into the crucial intersection between sleep and chronic pain management. Brett shares insights from his scoping review on the integration of sleep measures in chronic low back pain research, highlighting a significant gap in current practices. The conversation covers the impact of sleep on pain, the role of wearables, and practical advice for clinicians on how...2024-05-2038 min
The Chronic Illness TherapistsEp 59: When Traditional Physical Therapy Falls Short w/ Mark Kargela PT, DPTMark is a clinical assistant professor at Midwestern University in Glendale, Arizona. He specializes is spine and persistent pain conditions. He works in clinic where he sees patients and mentors physical therapy students. He also runs Modern Pain Care a company focused on educating health care professionals on pain science and person centered healthcare. He also hosts the Modern Pain Podcast where he interviews clinicians, researchers, and patients to better help everyone understand and manage pain.
The doors of Mark's next cohort of the Modern Pain Pro membership close on May 7th! sign up...2024-05-0156 minThe Chronic Illness TherapistsEp 59: When Traditional Physical Therapy Falls Short w/ Mark Kargela PT, DPTMark is a clinical assistant professor at Midwestern University in Glendale, Arizona. He specializes is spine and persistent pain conditions. He works in clinic where he sees patients and mentors physical therapy students. He also runs Modern Pain Care a company focused on educating health care professionals on pain science and person centered healthcare. He also hosts the Modern Pain Podcast where he interviews clinicians, researchers, and patients to better help everyone understand and manage pain.
The doors of Mark's next cohort of the Modern Pain Pro membership close on May 7th! sign up...2024-04-3056 minThe Modern Pain PodcastBeyond Neural Tension: Exploring Neurodynamics with Michael ShacklockIn this conversation, Mark Kargela interviews Michael Shacklock about his journey and influences in the field of neurodynamics. They discuss the transition from the traditional view of neural tension testing to neurodynamics, the influence of pain science on clinical practice, and the importance of integrating the biological examination with psychosocial factors. Michael also shares his focus on lumbar radiculopathy in his PhD research, specifically looking at unloading the nerve root for pain relief. In this conversation, Michael Shacklock discusses the use of neurodynamic techniques in the treatment of radiculopathy. He explains that movement-related pain should respond quickly to movement...2024-04-2848 minThe Modern Pain PodcastDefining Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapy with Jason SilvernailTo go deeper and get support in your practice make sure you check out our community In this conversation, Mark Kargela interviews Jason Silvernail about the definition and description of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapy (OMPT). They discuss the misconceptions and misunderstandings surrounding manual therapy and how OMPT differs from other forms of manual therapy. They also highlight the distinguishing characteristics of OMPT, including advanced subspecialty training, focus on clinical judgment, expertise in examination and treatment, and a patient-centered long-term mindset. The conversation emphasizes the importance of evidence-based practice and the need for a nuanced understanding of OMPT...2024-04-2150 minThe Modern Pain PodcastDoes Surgery Really Work? Ian Harris Challenges Conventional WisdomIn this conversation, Mark Kargela interviews Ian Harris, an orthopedic surgeon and researcher, about the challenges and problems in healthcare. Ian discusses his journey from being a practicing surgeon to becoming interested in the scientific method and evidence-based medicine. He talks about the resistance he has faced in challenging the status quo and the difficulties in changing the way surgeons think. They also discuss the placebo response in surgery, the blurring of normal and disease states in healthcare, and the overuse of procedures like spinal fusion and regenerative medicine. Ian shares his projects on placebo studies for rotator cuff...2024-04-1446 minThe Modern Pain PodcastUnveiling PT's Hidden Curriculum: Communication, Mentorship, and BeyondSummaryIn this conversation, Mark Kargela interviews Seth Peterson about various topics in physical therapy practice and education. They discuss the challenges of PT education, the role of manual therapy, the influence of social media on PT practice, the importance of mentorship, the value of communication in PT practice, the state of continuing education in PT, and the role of PTs as primary care musculoskeletal practitioners.Takeaways- PT education should focus on developing safe clinicians and providing mentorship to help clinicians become skilled practitioners.- There is value in manual therapy, but it s...2024-03-1738 minThe Modern Pain PodcastUsing Improv to Improve Your Practice.Join the Modern Pain Pro communityIn this conversation, Mark Kargela and Logan Buckley discuss the importance of communication in physiotherapy and how improv can enhance patient care. Logan shares his journey from being a physical therapist to discovering improv and how it has impacted his communication skills. They explore the role of communication in working with persistent pain patients and the influence of improv on navigating uncertainty and complexity. They emphasize the importance of authenticity and finding one's own voice in communication. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the complexity of communication compared to interventions...2024-02-1150 minThe Modern Pain PodcastThe PRISM Model: Revolutionizing Pain Management in Physical TherapyThe PRISM Model The Integrative Pain Science InstituteThe Modern Pain Pro Community SummaryIn this conversation, Joe discusses the development of the PRISM model, a comprehensive approach to pain management. He explains the evolution of the biopsychosocial model and the need for a more expansive model that addresses the complexities of pain. Joe also highlights the importance of a process-based approach to pain care and the domains and processes of the PRISM model. He discusses the barriers to integrating a holistic approach and the discomfort that clinicians may experience...2024-01-0148 minThe Modern Pain Podcast3 Reasons Con Ed is Failing Us in Pain Care EducationJoin the community waitlist Welcome to another episode of the Modern Pain Podcast. In this episode, Dr. Mark Kargela discusses the shortcomings of continuing education (Con Ed) in pain management and proposes solutions for clinicians.Key Topics:• Mismatch Between Con Ed and Clinical Practice: the environments of Con Ed courses often don't resemble real clinical settings, limiting their applicability in managing complex pain cases.• Isolation in Clinical Practice: Many clinicians find themselves isolated when applying modern pain science and techniques, lacking peer support and mentorship in their practices.• Logistical and Fi...2023-12-1112 minThe Modern Pain PodcastFrom Batman to Alfred. Redefining our Role in Pain ManagementJoin host Mark Kargela as he and Dr. Liebenson dive deep into the evolution of pain care and reveal strategies they both used and teach to help them transform their practices and those of their students..Craig shares his journey from traditional chiropractic methods to a revolutionary, holistic approach. He illuminates the often-overlooked psychological and physiological aspects of pain, challenging conventional wisdom and opening new pathways for treatment.Whether you're a healthcare professional seeking to enhance your practice, or someone struggling with pain, this video offers invaluable insights. Learn about the future of healthcare, the...2023-12-0456 minThe Modern Pain PodcastBridging the Gap: Holistic Approaches to Navigating Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, POTS, and MCASIn this enlightening episode of The Modern Pain Podcast, host Mark Kargela is joined by Dr. Linda Bluestein, an expert in the fields of hypermobility syndromes and Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome (EDS), to delve into the intricacies of managing chronic pain, EDS, Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS) and Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS).🚀 Takeaways for Clinicians and Patients:Clinicians will learn about the MEN'S PMMS framework to enhance their practice.Patients will gain insights into empowering themselves to manage their pain effectively.🧠 Mental Health and Chronic Pain:Explore the often-overlooked connection between chronic pain a...2023-11-0642 min
Untold Physio StoriesClaiming Uniqueness to InterventionsPart 2 of my amazing episode with Dr. Mark Kargela of Modern Pain Care. Make sure to check out his podcast, which is also part of the new PT Podcast Network. In this episode, Mark and I talk about everything from (over) confidence and outcomes, to unique mechanisms for why things work.
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Comprehend PT- Leave Comprehend PT running in the background or record audio when you have time. The AI based SOAP note generator does the rest! No need for accuracy or exact word...2023-10-3117 minUntold Physio StoriesBecoming Alfred Not the HeroUntold Physio Stories is part of The PT Podcast Network - find a new favorite podcast by an amazing PT creator!
Part 1 of 2! Erson is joined by Dr. Mark Kargela of Modern Pain Care. Mark goes over several pain points of his career from a failed PT practice to realizing he isn't the hero of a patient's story. The podcast could've went on forever as Erson and Mark have a lot in common!
Untold Physio Stories is sponsored by
Comprehend PT- Leave Comprehend PT running in th...2023-10-2018 min