Shows
On WisdomReligion as Make-Believe (with Neil Van Leeuwen)Is religious belief a form of make-believe — and if so, what deeper truths might we be acting out? Neil Van Leeuwen joins Igor and Charles to explore the psychological roots of religion, the nature of belief, and how sacred values shape group identity. Igor reflects on the blurring line between religious and political convictions, Neil argues that religious credence operates more like imaginative play than factual belief, and Charles considers whether conspiracy theories might be filling the same social and psychological roles. Welcome to Episode 65.Special Guest: Neil Van Leeuwen.Links:Neil Van Leeuwen' si...2025-05-0958 min
TIANYU2FM— 对谈未知领域E119. 我所相信的真实是被虚构的？和宗教与文学教授聊聊“相信” ft. 倪湛舸现实和虚拟的边界在哪？我还能否相信被赋予的认同感，和被消费的爱？
一篇发表在《自然-通讯》上的研究表明：人每天会产生超过6000个”想法“（https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17255-9）。你有没有想过，这些想法有多少是你自己产生的，又有多少是你所接收到信息赋予你的？
你有没有听过高水平的辩论赛，辩手的一席话似乎就足以让观众的想法180度转向。那么什么是真实？为什么宗教的世界观对于信徒来说切实存在，而对于无神论者又难以共情？对于一个人来说是真实的东西，另一个人看来却仿佛可笑？你有没有喜欢上过一个电影、动漫、游戏中的人物，觉得他们就在自己身边？或者对一个品牌产生好感甚至忠诚，觉得这是自己向往的生活方式？这又和信徒有什么区别？
现实与虚构的边界似乎没有我们想象的那么清晰。而这些思辨似乎都会指向一个问题，”相信“是什么？
本期节目，我们有幸邀请到了弗吉尼亚理工大学宗教与文化系副教授，倪湛舸老师对谈，来和她一起从人文学者的角度聊聊现实和虚构的边界在哪里？我们又是如何“相信”的？
本期你会听到
倪湛舸
弗吉尼亚理工大学宗教与文化系副教授
芝加哥大学宗教与文学博士、前哈佛大学神学院客座研究员
著有学术专著The Pagan Writes Back，并创作出版过多部诗集、随笔集，以及历史小说《莫须有》
近期研究关注中国宗教与网络小说
李天宇 大白
媒介研究者（主要兴趣：科技史、动画与电子游戏）
李天域 Jack
主业有三家公司，主要在服装行业，目前年营收超过千万
在这段对话中，我们从事实信念、虚构想象、宗教信仰这三种经常叠加在一起的”相信“是什么开始聊起，聊到了：宗教和科学控制人们认识世界的方式？商业、品牌、文化作品等如何通过“相信”来控制你的钱包、劳动、认知和爱？资本主义的新精神是什么？为什么情绪变成了商业追逐的新目标？我们在购买的到底是商品，还是某种想象？
节目的最后，倪教授探讨了修真小说所反映的中国人对于”升级“的痴迷可能是导致内卷的原因之一，以及虚构背后人们渴望善恶有报的愿景所具有的真实的力量。
本期节目对我们来说完全可以用醍醐灌顶来形容，相信你也一定能有所收获。那就请你和我们一起加入这场关于真实、虚构，以及”相信“的游戏吧！
结语
天宇：倪老师一直是我非常敬仰的学者，她总是能用精准的语言把复杂的理论和概念解释清楚，相信这一点你也一定感同身受。
就像我们在节目里说的，尽管我们的业余时间、我们的理想和爱或许都已经成为了被资本剥削的对象，但我们仍然有无法被剥夺的情动，这是无比珍贵的。我正在制作（录制和书写中）的，和你正在消费的，都是一档经过封装的节目。它固然需要在数字内容的海洋中与无数节目争夺流量，但也正因为此，我们聊天时许多快乐与思考的瞬间才能够超越当时的时空和我们自身的存在，能有一些和你产生共鸣的可能。
因为这真实存在的力量来源于我们在虚拟空间的交互，所以我们仍然可以选择相信。
本期节目制作
王一山（制片人）
在洋（节目剪辑）
Alan（节目运营）
TIANYU2FM的理念：每期对谈有价值的声音
我们是天宇和天域，是挚友，也是一起求知的伙伴。这是一档为了开拓眼界，走出自我局限而设立的播客，我们通过与人的对谈来与未知的领域及知识互动。
主持人简介
天域 | 杰激（声音偏高）：服装电商公司创始人、UnDeR20合伙人（小红书：李天域 Jack）
天宇 | 大白（声音偏低）：从事中日流行文化与媒介研究（文章见于澎湃新闻私家历史、网易新闻历史频道等）
扩展阅读（由倪湛舸教授提供）
关于模仿、宗教信仰、玄学
Kendall Walton, Mimesis as Make-Believe: On the Foundations of the Representational Arts
Neil Van Leeuwen, Religion as Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity
Theodor Adorno, The Stars Down to Earth
John and Jean Comaroff, “Ocuult Economies, Revisited”
Christopher Patridge, “Occulture and Everyday Enchantment”
关于创意资本主义
Brian Moeran and Timothy de Waal Malefyt ed., Magical Capitalism: Enchantment, Spells, and Occult Practices in Contemporary Economies
Guiseppe Cocco and Barbara Szaniecki ed., Creative Capitalism, Multitudinous Creativity: Radicalities and Alterities
关于小说、虚构性、历史小说
Gallagher, Catherine. "The Rise of Fictionality". The Novel, Volume 1: History, Geography, and Culture, edited by Franco Moretti, Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2006, pp. 336-363.
Zeitlin, Judith T.. "Xiaoshuo". The Novel, Volume 1: History, Geography, and Culture, edited by Franco Moretti, Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2006, pp. 249-261.
Saba Mahmood, “Azazeel and the Politics of Historical Fiction in Egypt,”Comparative Literature (2013) 65 (3): 265–284.
关于修真小说
Ni, Zhange. 2020. "Xiuzhen (Immortality Cultivation) Fantasy: Science, Religion, and the Novels of Magic/Superstition in Contemporary China" Religions 11, no. 1: 25.
Ni, Zhange. 2020. ““REIMAGINING DAOIST ALCHEMY, DECOLONIZING TRANSHUMANISM: THE FANTASY OF IMMORTALITY CULTIVATION IN TWENTY‐FIRST CENTURY CHINA”, Zygon: Journal of Religion and Science 55(3), 748–7712025-03-252h 00
Premium Ad-Free: Straight White American JesusIt's in the Code Ep 124: "Religion as Make Believe"Subscribe for $5.99 a month to get bonus content most Mondays, bonus episodes every month, ad-free listening, access to the entire 700-episode archive, Discord access, and more: https://axismundi.supercast.com/What does it mean to “believe” something? What is distinctive about religious belief? Is it different from other kinds of belief? In this episode, Dan interviews philosopher Neil Van Leeuwen to discuss his book, Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity, which opens up a provocative and illuminating account of religious belief. Check it out as Dan and Neil explore these and othe...2024-11-271h 08Straight White American JesusIt's in the Code Ep 124: "Religion as Make Believe"Subscribe for $5.99 a month to get bonus content most Mondays, bonus episodes every month, ad-free listening, access to the entire 700-episode archive, Discord access, and more: https://axismundi.supercast.com/What does it mean to “believe” something? What is distinctive about religious belief? Is it different from other kinds of belief? In this episode, Dan interviews philosopher Neil Van Leeuwen to discuss his book, Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity, which opens up a provocative and illuminating account of religious belief. Check it out as Dan and Neil explore these and othe...2024-11-271h 08
New Books in ReligionNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
New Books in SociologyNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
New Books in PsychologyNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
New Books in AnthropologyNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
New Books in Big IdeasNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
NBN Book of the DayNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
The Harvard BriefNeil Van Leeuwen, "Religion As Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity" (Harvard UP, 2023)It is an intuitive truth that religious beliefs are different from ordinary factual beliefs. We understand that a belief in God or the sacredness of scripture is not the same as believing that the sun will rise again tomorrow or that flipping the switch will turn on the light. In Religion as Make Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity (Harvard UP, 2023), Neil Van Leeuwen draws on psychological, linguistic, and anthropological evidence to show that psychological mechanisms underlying religious beliefs function like those that enable imaginative play. When someone pretends, they navigate the world on...2024-09-171h 17
The Michael Shermer ShowReligion as Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group IdentityWe often assume that religious beliefs are no different in kind from ordinary factual beliefs—that believing in the existence of God or of supernatural entities that hear our prayers is akin to believing that May comes before June. Neuroscientist and philosopher Neil Van Leeuwen shows that, in fact, these two forms of belief are strikingly different. Our brains do not process religious beliefs like they do beliefs concerning mundane reality; instead, empirical findings show that religious beliefs function like the imaginings that guide make-believe play. Van Leeuwen argues that religious belief―which he terms religious “credence”―is best un...2024-06-112h 03
Offline with Jon FavreauScarJo v. AI, the Digital Guillotine, and Why We Play Make Believe with MisinformationDo we treat political affiliation like a religion? Which parts of our identity are based off factual belief vs. imaginary belief? This week, Max talks to Professor Neil Van Leeuwen about the difference between thinking and believing, the power of groupish thought, and the similarities between religious creeds and political ideologies. But first! Jon and Max break down the drama between Scarlet Johansson and OpenAI, pick apart the TikTok blockout, and suspend their disbelief that a close friend of the pod is…on Survivor?! Will he love it or leave it? For a closed-captioned version of...2024-05-261h 10
O SOMBRIONAUTAO MENSAGEIRO OLHA POR TI → GUERRA CIVIL [FILME] (2024) – PARTE 00Eu acho fascinante como as crises de vira-latismo da grande mídia podem se expressar de diversas formas. Algumas vezes sua vulgaridade se dedica ao elogio que poderia ser deleite, se não fosse em verdade uma forma de não reconhecer a realidade e discuti-la como tal.
CUIDADO, POIS, O DELEITE PODE CAIR NO DELÍRIO, COMO BEM NEIL GAIMAN (1960) EXPLICOU EM SUAS DIVERSAS OBRAS.
Assim, anda o cinema nacional e sua crítica, nessa “situação colonial”, como disse o historiador e cineasta PAULO EMÍLIO SALES GOMES (1916–1977), o que quer dizer que os atores e ou...2024-04-2402 min
Luke FordWhere This Show Is Better Than The New York Times (4 - 16 - 24)Not Born Yesterday: The Science of Who We Trust and What We Believe, https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=130046
My highlights: https://lukeford.net/blog/?p=143746
New Yorker: Don’t Believe What They’re Telling You About Misinformation:
People may fervently espouse symbolic beliefs, cognitive scientists say, but they don’t treat them the same as factual beliefs. It’s worth keeping track of the difference. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/22/dont-believe-what-theyre-telling-you-about-misinformation
Weill isn’t the only one to fear the effects of false information. In January, the World Economic Forum released a report showing that fourteen hundred and ninety international experts ra...2024-04-1732 min
Data Over DogmaIs Religion Make-Believe? With Neil Van LeeuwenIt doesn't sound very nice, but this week we're asking the question: is religious belief the same as factual knowledge, or is closer to imagination? Cognitive scientist and philosopher Neil Van Leeuwen is here to walk us through the theory he puts forward in his book Religion as Make-Believe A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity. And it is fascinating!Dr. Van Leeuwen dives deep into how our minds relate to the world around us. What distinguishes our understanding of what's in the room next to us from our ideas about who or what controls the...2024-03-251h 04
The Dissenter#865 Neil Van Leeuwen - Religion as Make-Believe: A Theory of Belief, Imagination, and Group Identity------------------Support the channel------------
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Dr. Neil Van Leeuwen is...2023-11-2448 min
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Health Hats, the PodcastBelonging in School: #5 Emerging Adults with Mental IllnessMatt Neil, teacher, offers a hopeful story. Not focusing on mental health per se but on belonging and inclusion in a typically lonely time – high school.
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Contents with Time-Stamped Headings
Proem
Po...2023-02-1245 minHealth Hats, the PodcastCrossing Thresholds: #4 Emerging Adults with Mental IllnessAnnie Schneider with Bipolar II, experiencing abrupt and slow simmering transitions from home, hospital, school. Develops agency, control, and trust. Powerful!
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Proem
Introducing Annie Schneider 02:18
Podcast intro 03:18
...2023-01-2246 minHealth Hats, the PodcastHope for Mom of Emerging Adult with Mental Illness#3: Erika Blair, proud of son, Emeka Chima. Found professionals with lived experience, integrated teams, positive support & a sense of hope from other parents.
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to listen where you w...2023-01-0833 min
Cor PotcastTechnisch Regisseur (ft. Ted van Leeuwen) | Cor Potcast | S04E17Deze aflevering is niet met een regisseur. Niet met een muzikant. Of een artiest. Hoewel, alledrie de stempels zou je volgens hemzelf op hem kunnen plakken. Want, de taken een technisch directeur vertonen (blijkbaar) opvallend veel overeenkomsten met die van een regisseur, muzikant, of artiest.Deze wijsheid bracht niemand minder dan Ted van Leeuwen ons. De man die selecties samenstelde van onder meer Vitesse, FC Twente en NEC bleek nog veel meer in petto te hebben. HIj vertelde over de dynamiek van het vak. Over de gesprekken met spelers, zaakwaarnemers en andere clubs. Over...2022-11-181h 01
Un día como hoy en la músicaEfemérides del 29 de octubreEl nacimiento de:
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- Peter Green en Londres, será miembro fundador de la banda Fleetwood Mac
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Motorsport News PodcastMNews: Crompton out, Masi in - Supercars shake-up explainedThis week on the Castrol Motorsport News Podcast, host Andrew van Leeuwen and V8 Sleuth’s Stefan Bartholomaeus discuss the hot topics from the Sandown SuperSprint. The boys dig into the DJR versus Triple Eight battle and the details behind Davo’s incredible Sunday qualifying – smoked out one minute, on pole the next! There’s also plenty of news to get into, headlined by ex-F1 race director Michael Masi’s impending appointment as chair of the Supercars Commission at the expense of Neil Crompton. Also on the agenda are Grove Racing’s latest big technical signing, the push for the Sandown...2022-08-2336 minHealth Hats, the PodcastTelling Stories for Different Brains #151Turn-around. Interview of Health Hats by Craig Constantine entitled, Rich, about my podcasting process. A ton of work to keep it fresh. Ruthless editing.
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Contents with Time-Stamped Headings
to listen where you want to listen or read where you want to read (heading. time on podcast xx:xx. page # on the...2021-12-0520 min
Philosophy Talk Starters480: What Is Religious Belief?More at https://www.philosophytalk.org/shows/what-religious-belief.
Many people profess to believe in an all-powerful, all-knowing, benevolent God. Yet psychological data shows that people often think and reason about God in ways contrary to their professed religious beliefs. So, are these so-called religious beliefs genuinely held? Or are “believers” just playing an elaborate game of pretense? Is there a difference between ordinary factual belief and religious belief? And what role do people's religious creedences play in shaping their social identities? Josh and Ken get real with Neil van Leeuwen from Georgia State University, author of "Religion and Make-Believe" (forthcoming).2021-12-0511 minHealth Hats, the PodcastRecharging Batteries with Professionalism. Who Knew?Release endorphins in presence of professionalism & diversity. Open heart, boost learning, respect, action. Don’t waste time, give hurt dignity. Care & artistry
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Episode Notes
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Find FULL TRANSCRIPT at the end of the other show notes or download the printable transcript here
Contents with Time-Stamped Headings
to listen where you want to listen or read where you want to read (heading. time on podcast xx:xx. page # on the transcript)
Convening di...2021-08-0809 min
HiPERleadership3. The HiPER Leader with Professor Neil Van LeeuwenIf HiPER Leaders are psychologically wired for crisis and game-change, why do executive search firms, investors, owners, and executive sponsors struggle to identify and retain HiPERs?Join David Morris and his guest, Neil Van Leeuwen, a philosopher and member of the Neuroscience Institute at Georgia State University. The two unpack the psychological and behavioral traits that distinguish a HiPER leader from traditional leaders, how to identify, and unlock the full potential of a HiPER Leader so they can help take your business to the next normal. To learn more about taking your organization from the new normal...2020-06-0427 min
Change Your Story, Change Your Life193: All About SexGETTING LAID
Yes, today’s podcast is all about sex. It’s all about getting laid. No, the show is not becoming a porn pod.
Today, we will explore what sex means to a man and a woman who spend a night together between the sheets. You’ll discover that it can mean very different things to each of them.
Our guests are Anne van Leeuwen and Ryan Hollyman, two very talented actors who are currently performing in a play called C’MON, Angie at the Assembly Theatre in Toronto.
This is a smart, compelling, provocative p...2019-04-241h 05
Change Your Story, Change Your Life193: All About SexGETTING LAID
Yes, today’s podcast is all about sex. It’s all about getting laid. No, the show is not becoming a porn pod.
Today, we will explore what sex means to a man and a woman who spend a night together between the sheets. You’ll discover that it can mean very different things to each of them.
Our guests are Anne van Leeuwen and Ryan Hollyman, two very talented actors who are currently performing in a play called C’MON, Angie at the Assembly Theatre in Toronto.
This is a smar...2019-04-241h 05
Hi-Phi NationCreed and CredencesDave has been hunting for the one decisive piece of scientific evidence that will settle one of Christianity's most challenging questions. On this episode we look at two stories of people trying to reconcile their religious and empirical beliefs about the world, and hear from a philosopher whose theory says that their attempts may be futile. Guest voices include Dave Woetzel, Laura Jean Truman, and philosopher Neil Van Leeuwen. This episode is brought to you by The Great Courses Plus. Visit http://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/hiphi to sign up for one month free. Learn more...2018-05-0144 min
Hi-Phi NationCreed and CredencesDave has been hunting for the one decisive piece of scientific evidence that will settle one of Christianity's most challenging questions. On this episode we look at two stories of people trying to reconcile their religious and empirical beliefs about the world, and hear from a philosopher whose theory says that their attempts may be futile. Guest voices include Dave Woetzel, Laura Jean Truman, and philosopher Neil Van Leeuwen. This episode is brought to you by The Great Courses Plus. Visit http://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/hiphi to sign up for one month free.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit...2018-05-0141 minPhilosophy Talk Starters232: Self-DeceptionMore at http://philosophytalk.org/shows/self-deception.
Self-deception sounds like a contradiction: intentionally convincing yourself of something you know to be untrue. But it is a pervasive aspect of human nature. What is the nature of self-deception, and what are its main patterns? Does it serve any purpose? Ken and John confront the truths of self-deception with Neil Van Leeuwen from the University of Johannesburg.2015-10-3109 min