Shows
Form & StructureHow AI and RegTech Are Transforming Financial Regulation with Jo Ann BarefootFinancial regulation is failing to keep pace with innovation and the results are catastrophic. The UN estimates that less than 1% of financial crime gets caught globally, despite banks spending tens of billions annually on AML compliance. In this episode, Surus CEO Patrick Murck sits down with Jo Ann Barefoot, former Deputy Comptroller of the Currency and CEO of the Alliance for Innovative Regulation, to explore why outdated regulatory technology is the bottleneck preventing both effective crime detection and financial innovation. Featuring Jo Ann Barefoot's decades of experience helping regulators adapt to technological change, from FinTech waves to...
2026-01-2939 min
Form & StructureRegulate Who Controls the Money, Not 'Decentralization'U.S. policymakers continue to wrestle with how to regulate decentralized finance, stablecoins, and the broader crypto ecosystem. But as our guests Rebecca Rettig and Mike Mosier argue, the central challenge has never been "decentralization." Instead, the real regulatory question is who has independent control over other people's value.
2025-12-0343 min
Form & StructureDon't F** It Up: Why Congress Has One Shot at Crypto Market StructureIn this monthly policy roundtable, Patrick Murck is joined by Greg Xethalis (General Counsel, Multicoin Capital) and Karen Ubell (Partner, Goodwin) to break down the urgent push for crypto market structure legislation before midterms. They discuss Mike Selig's nomination to chair the CFTC and what his crypto expertise means for the agency's expansion into spot markets. They examine whether Congress should rush legislation or take time to get it right, what the Binance listing terms leak reveals about US regulatory arbitrage, and why moving from 54 state licenses to federal oversight matters for competitiveness.
2025-11-1045 min
Form & StructureSurus Partners with Protocol Labs to Launch PL Alignment AssetProtocol Labs' Juan Benet (Founder & CEO) and Diana Stern (Deputy General Counsel) join Patrick Murck on this week's episode. They discuss launching the PL 'alignment asset' token as a novel way to share incentives across Protocol Labs' network of over 700 companies.
2025-10-101h 11
Form & StructureMaking Bitcoin Productive: The $7 Billion ValidationPatrick Murck hosts David Tse (Co-Founder of Babylon Labs co-founder and Stanford professor) dive into how Babylon attracted nearly $7 billion in Bitcoin staking and explore their new trustless Bitcoin vaults that activate dormant Bitcoin assets for productive use in DeFi.
2025-09-2650 min
Form & StructureCrypto Lending and the UCC's New Digital Asset RulesPatrick Murck and Professor Carla Reyes (SMU Law) discuss how the 2022 UCC amendments created "controllable electronic records" to finally align commercial law with crypto lending practices. They explore whether Bitcoin's UTXO system makes security interests practically impossible to enforce, why Florida's attempt to ban CBDCs through state law doesn't actually work, and how the GENIUS Act might prevent stablecoin issuers from paying bankruptcy costs.
2025-09-1753 min
Form & StructureBitcoin's New Epoch with Pete RizzoIn this episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck sits down with Pete Rizzo, The Bitcoin Historian and host of the Supply Shock podcast, for a wide-ranging conversation about Bitcoin's evolution and what Pete calls its "new epoch.".
2025-08-2045 min
Form & StructureThe Tornado Cash Fallout, Privacy Tech and Bitcoin's Fee MarketIn our Monthly Bitcoin Series episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck sits down with Neha Narula (Director, MIT Digital Currency Initiative) and Ethan Heilman (Research Engineer, Cloudflare) to discuss Roman Storm verdict's impact on privacy tech, Bitcoins fee market breakdown, and the "one sat per vbyte" policy debate.
2025-08-1353 min
Form & StructureThe Crypto Capital Blueprint: Bo Hines and Dan Spuller on America's Digital Assets StrategyWhite House Crypto Council Executive Director Bo Hines joins Patrick Murck to break down the administration's comprehensive strategy to make America the crypto capital of the world. Bo discusses the President's Working Group Digital Assets Report, Bitcoin Strategic Reserve implementation, and the timeline to pass the Clarity Act by October 2025. Then, Dan Spuller (EVP Industry Affairs, Blockchain Association) dives into North Carolina's emergence as a crypto hub, state-level competition for digital asset infrastructure, and how regulatory clarity is driving companies back to the United States.
2025-08-0745 min
Form & StructureThe Real Winner of the GENIUS Act: A Policy Roundtable on Stablecoin Regulation and Market StructurePatrick Murck hosts Greg Xethalis (General Counsel at MultiCoin Capital) and Karen Ubell (Partner at Goodwin) for our monthly Policy & Regulatory Roundtable to discuss the historic signing of the GENIUS Act, what it means for consumer protection, and the path forward for comprehensive market structure reform.
2025-07-3148 min
Supply ShockSecurities Laws Are Broken & The Market Structure Bill Will Fail | Patrick MurckIn this episode, Founder & CEO of Surus.io Patrick Murck joins the show to reflect on Bitcoin’s rise to a fresh all-time high, its original mission of financial autonomy, and the tension between price appreciation and real-world use. He discusses stablecoins as dollar-compatible tools, why market structure reforms are stalled, and how his new company enables tokenized real-world assets with bankruptcy-remote custody. We also explore US regulatory history, accredited investor rules, and why crypto remains an experiment with both promise and pitfalls. Enjoy!
—
Follow Patrick: https://x.com/virtuallylaw
Follow Rizzo: https://x.co...
2025-07-151h 10
Form & StructureNot Everything Should Be Tokenized with TAC's Johnny ReinschJohnny Reinsch, Executive Director of the Tokenized Asset Coalition, joins Patrick Murck to discuss why TAC is shifting from policy advocacy to solving technical infrastructure challenges, how stablecoins are becoming the gateway to broader tokenization, and why his mantra remains "not everything should be tokenized." The conversation explores Johnny's evolution from Bitcoin maximalist to tokenization realist, offering candid insights on what actually needs fixing in the industry.
2025-07-0242 min
Form & StructureBeyond Bitcoin: DeFi Dev Corp's Vision for Crypto Treasury CompaniesAs crypto treasury strategies expand beyond Bitcoin, a new wave of companies is emerging to capitalize on this trend. But which ones will survive market cycles? In this episode, host Patrick Murck explores this question with Joseph Onorati and Parker White, co-founders of DeFi Development Corporation, the first publicly traded Solana Treasury Company, who bring multi-cycle crypto experience dating back to 2013.
2025-06-2650 min
Form & StructureThe GENIUS Act Passes: Unlocking America's Stablecoin FutureHost Patrick Murck is joined by Greg Xethalis (General Counsel at Multicoin Capital), Drew Hinkes (Partner at Winston & Strawn, and Adjunct Professor at NYU School of Law & Stern School of Business), and Karen Ubell (Partner at Goodwin Procter) to break down the Senate's 68-30 passage of the GENIUS Act—the first productive crypto legislation heading to a U.S. president's desk—and what it means for stablecoins, institutional adoption, and the future of digital dollars.
2025-06-2041 min
Form & StructureBringing Soverign Debt to DeFi with Etherfuse CEO, David TaylorIn this episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck invites David Taylor (Co-founder & CEO of Etherfuse) on to discuss how Etherfuse is bringing sovereign debt onchain, solving cross-border payment inefficiencies, and why they chose Surus as their custody partner.
2025-06-1841 min
Form & StructureBitcoin's Existential Questions: Spam, Security, and the Block SubsidyIn this episode of Form & Structure, Patrick Murck sits down with three Bitcoin network experts – Neha Narula (Director, MIT Digital Currency Initiative), Ethan Heilman (Research Engineer, Cloudflare), and Tadge Dryja (Bitcoin Core developer and Lightning Network co-inventor) – to discuss recent debates around the Bitcoin network including user activated soft forks, op return transactions, the security budget debate, and the necessity of protocol specialization.
2025-06-0459 min
Form & StructureTokenizing the Energy Transition with Adam Silver (CEO of Plural)In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Adam Silver, co-founder and CEO of Plural Energy, to discuss how tokenization is transforming renewable energy investment and bridging traditional finance with DeFi innovation. After taking the unconventional path of studying for his Series 7 exam while building his company, Silver shares his vision for creating what he calls the "financial operating system for the base layer of the economy" and why he believes bringing real assets on-chain is key to unlocking capital flows into the energy transition.
2025-05-2956 min
Form & StructureCrypto's Path to Building Lasting Policy with Kristin SmithIn this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Kristin Smith, President of the Solana Policy Institute and former CEO of Blockchain Association, to discuss crypto's regulatory evolution and the path forward. After seven years leading industry advocacy efforts, Smith shares insights on how crypto can achieve lasting policy results despite political challenges and shifts.
2025-05-2150 min
Form & StructureHow Solana Hit $10B+ in TVL: The Tech, Retail, and Institutional Flywheel with Nick DucoffIn this episode, Patrick Murck chats with Nick Ducoff, Head of Institutional Growth at the Solana Foundation. Nick unpacks how the Solana ecosystem scaled from $300 million to over $10 billion in TVL and discusses the influence of the rise of institutional adoption and how tokenized assets, streaming payments, and stablecoins are creating the foundation for the next wave of onchain finance.
2025-05-1436 min
Form & StructureIs DeFi Just Rebuilding the Systems It Set Out to Replace?In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Punia, Co-Founder of Nashpoint, to explore why today's DeFi ecosystem is dominated by hedge funds and crypto whales —and what it will take to return to crypto's original principals of building open, accessible financial infrastructure. The conversation dives into how DeFi has drifted toward mimicking TradFi, the limitations of current liquidity models, and how sovereign debt tokens and diversified capital bases could help reshape the onchain economy for broader participation.
2025-05-0743 min
Form & StructureBridging Institutional Infrastructure with Memecoin WalletsIn this episode, Patrick Murck chats with Andrey Chabanov, who explains how his company, Trusttek, is providing seamless crypto integration for financial institutions while Ramp Me Daddy, his Telegram-based wallet born from a hackathon project, makes buying meme coins simple for everyday users. The conversation explores how meme coins compare to previous trends like ICOs and NFTs, and the potential future innovations in this space.
2025-04-2332 min
Form & StructureThree VCs on Finding Signal Amid the Noise in Crypto and FinTechHow are venture investors approaching the crypto and FinTech landscape in 2025? In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with three experienced VCs – David Mort, Tyler Griffin, and Kabir Kumar – to explore investment strategies in today's regulatory environment, where to find opportunity among established players, and how AI is reshaping financial innovation. The investors share candid perspectives on what they're looking for in founders and which trends show lasting potential beyond the hype.
2025-04-1756 min
Form & StructureBitcoin's Technical Evolution ft. Lightning Network Co-Inventor Tadge DryjaWhat does the future of Bitcoin development look like? In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Tadge Dryja (Bitcoin Core developer, researcher, and co-inventor of the Lightning Network) to explore the practical challenges of scaling Bitcoin, how innovations like Utreexo could dramatically reduce node operating costs, and whether decentralized alternatives to stablecoins are viable through technologies like Discrete Log Contracts. Tadge offers a clear-eyed view of what's working in Bitcoin development, what isn't, and where the real opportunities for innovation lie.
2025-04-0948 min
Form & StructureWhat Is a Payment, Really?What exactly makes a payment a payment—and why does it matter when crypto gets involved? In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Jess Cheng (Partner at Wilson Sonsini, previously at the Federal Reserve, IMF, and Ripple) to explore the legal foundations of payments, how crypto is challenging traditional financial frameworks, and what it will take to modernize money movement in a rapidly evolving ecosystem.
2025-04-0234 min
Form & StructureCrypto, Compliance, and the $18 Trillion Blind SpotWhat if the current anti-money laundering system doesn't work—not just for crypto, but for anyone? In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Rebecca Rettig (Chief Legal Officer at Jito Labs) and Mike Mosier (Co-Founder at Arktouros, ex-FinCEN, ex-OFAC) to discuss the real limitations of today's compliance frameworks and what's needed to build a system that actually detects and prevents financial crime—without stifling innovation.
2025-03-2752 min
Form & StructureBitcoin Covenants & Collider Script ft. Ethan HeilmanIn this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Ethan Heilman, Research Engineer at Cloudflare and Bitcoin Research Collaborator at MIT DCI, to discuss the complexities of Bitcoin's scripting limitations, how Collider Script, a novel way to bridge Big Script and Small Script, is pushing the boundaries of what's possible with Bitcoin covenants, and what the future holds for programmable money. Read the ColliderScript paper: https://eprint.iacr.org/2024/1802 Explore more of Ethan Heilman's work: https://www.ethanheilman.com/
2025-03-2048 min
Form & StructureStablecoins, Remittances & the Future of Payments ft. Marco Mahrus (Bridge)In this episode, Marco Mahrus, veteran in fintech and payments and Head of Revenue at Bridge, joins Patrick Murck (Founder & CEO of Surus) to explain how stablecoins are transforming payments, remittances, and global money movement, and what the future holds beyond speculation.
2025-03-1138 min
Form & StructurePrudential Regulation vs. Financial InnovationWho should decide the future of financial services—regulators or the market? And why do banking rules often fail to adapt to new technology? In this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Matt Homer (Founder & GP, The Venture Dept), Sarah Elliott (Board Member, Advisor), and Alex Acree (Chief Legal Officer, Unit) to explore how prudential regulation is shaping - and sometimes stalling - financial innovation.
2025-03-0639 min
Form & StructureHow Credit Markets Are Getting an Onchain UpgradeIn this episode, Patrick Murck sits down with Chris Walker, Co-Founder & CEO of Credit Co-op, to explore how DeFi is reshaping lending and credit markets. The conversation unpacks how businesses are using stablecoins to bridge liquidity gaps, why traditional credit models are struggling to keep up, and what the future of decentralized finance (DeFi) looks like beyond speculation.
2025-02-2436 min
Form & StructureThe Trade-Offs Between Privacy and SurveillanceHow much privacy should financial transactions have? And how much surveillance is too much? In this episode, Patrick Murck dives into the trade-offs between financial privacy and oversight with Gregory Lisa, Senior Counsel at Hogan Lovells.
2025-02-1842 min
Form & StructureRethinking Crypto DisclosuresPatrick Murck brings together three leading voices in crypto regulation and securities law to examine how traditional disclosure frameworks can adapt to the unique challenges of digital assets. Chris Brummer (CEO, Bluprynt), Lee Schneider (General Counsel, Ava Labs), and Lilya Tessler (Partner, Sidley Austin) explore what meaningful disclosures look like in an industry where assets range from meme coins to treasury-backed tokens.
2025-02-0642 min
Form & StructureFrom Mt. Gox to FTX: Crypto's Regulatory Turning PointsPatrick Murck brings together three veteran crypto legal and policy experts to examine the industry's most significant crises and their lasting impact on regulation. From Mt. Gox to Libra to FTX, the conversation explores the key ways that these events have shaped the regulatory landscape and influenced policymaker perspectives on digital assets.
2025-01-2140 min
Form & StructureThe First 100 Days: Crypto's Legislative Priorities Under a New AdministrationIn this episode, our Sheila Warren, Greg Xethalis, and Marco Santori join Patrick Murck to discuss the intersection of personnel decisions, legislative priorities, and existing regulatory frameworks will converge to shape the future of digital asset regulation during the first 100 days under the new administration.
2025-01-1042 min
Form & StructurePaul Atkins' SEC Chair Nomination and the Future of Crypto RegulationPatrick Murck brings back Chris Brummer, Georgetown Law Professor and CEO of Bluprynt and Lee Schneider, General Counsel at Ava Labs to unpack Paul Atkins' nomination as SEC Chair. The conversation explores Atkins' background and demeanor and examines what his "return to normalcy" leadership could mean for digital asset regulation. The trio dives deep into the intricate web of relationships between Congress, the courts, and regulatory agencies that will shape future policy.
2024-12-1621 min
Form & StructureThe Post-Gensler Regulatory Reset: Markets, Policy, and the Future of CryptoJoin your host Patrick Murck, Founder and CEO of Surus, as he brings together three influential voices in crypto law and policy: Chris Brummer (Georgetown Law Professor and Founder & CEO of Bluprynt), Marco Santori (Chief Legal Officer at Kraken), and Lee Schneider (General Counsel at Ava Labs). In this candid conversation, these industry veterans debate what comes next for digital asset regulation, explore the tensions between innovation and investor protection, and tackle the question of whether Congress can finally deliver comprehensive crypto legislation. From potential SEC enforcement actions to the future of DeFi regulation, this episode offers an insider's v...
2024-12-0539 min
The PregameTen Dollar Bitcoin (w/ Jameson Lopp, Patrick Murck, Tuur Demeester, & Pete Rizzo)Joining us live above PubKey:Jameson Lopp — Cypherpunk, Co-founder & Chief Security Officer of CasaPatrick Murck — Founder and CEO of Surus, co-founder and General Counsel of the Bitcoin FoundationTuurThomasRizzoRecorded on November 21st, 2024 at PubKey NYC.
2024-11-2845 min
Money ReimaginedMoney 2020 Spotlight | Uniting Forces - FinTech, Crypto, and Insights from Patrick Murck and Chris Brummer
Sheila Warren delves into the thrilling world of FinTech and crypto at Money 2020, with industry luminaries Patrick Murck and Chris Brummer; sharing their perspectives on the financial revolution.This episode is sponsored by CME Group and PayPal.In today's episode of "Money Reimagined," Sheila Warren is at the Money 20/20 Conference in Las Vegas and is joined by Georgetown Law Professor, author, and trusted advisor Chris Brummer; and Patrick Murck the President and Chief Legal Officer at Transparent Financial Systems, a member of the IMF’s High-Level Advisory Group on Fintech and an Affiliate with the Berkman Kle...
2023-11-0139 min
Money ReimaginedOpen Money: Redesigning the System With Humans and the Planet in Mind
This episode is sponsored by EY.At a Consensus panel from Austin, Texas, "Money Reimagined" host Sheila Warren sits down with Natalya Thakur, co-founder and chief operating officer of Knox Networks; Diana Biggs, chief strategy officer of Valour; and Patrick Murck, president and chief legal officer of Transparent, to discuss the pros and cons of corporate control of digital money. The panel examines the meaning of “open money.” What does it mean to our society? What is closed now, and what do we recognize as being open? How we think about corporate influence and the challenges that will ar...
2022-06-2444 min
Money ReimaginedNew Money and Contemporary Capitalism With Brett King and Patrick Murck
With the advent of cryptocurrency and related technologies, and with the failure of the existing banking-centric monetary architecture to address inequities and avoid financial crises, the one thing people tend to agree on is that our system of money needs an overhaul, specifically an upgrade to meet the needs of the digital economy. This episode is sponsored by Quantstamp and Nexo.io.But what form should it take? And who gets to decide?This week, “Money Reimagined” co-hosts Michael Casey and Sheila Warren talk to two guests who’ve thought as much about these i...
2021-11-1945 min
SpaceCasts💡💬 What actually are scams in the world of cryptocurrency?Is one person's scam another person's legitimate enterprise. This is a hard question once you get into examples in regular life, but crypto makes it much more complicated. We discuss these questions with two people who have been in the space a long time: Lana Swartz is a scholar of media studies at the University of Virginia who is known for writing about money as a social network. Her studies of money have led her to be interested in scams and what it means to scam. If scam studies become a topic at universities, she will be its progenitor...
2021-06-2358 min
On The Brink with Castle IslandWeekly Roundup 01/08/21 (Banks can use blockchains, best FinCEN comment letters)Nic and Matt return for another week of ATHs. In this episode: Coindesk acquires Tradeblock The OCC says that banks can use public blockchains and stablecoins We digest the OCC letter Potential drawbacks to the new OCC guidance Has Brian Brooks had the most successful regulatory term in recent memory? The Treasury's comment period expires Does the Treasury even have the authority to pass these new rules? Our favorite comment letters in response to the Treasury rules Does JPM's price call make them hypocrites on the topic of Bitcoin? Ripple's series C lead investor is suing Ripple Strike a...
2021-01-0832 min
UnconfirmedAlthea Network: How Ethereum Is Used in the Real WorldFrom DevCon 5 in Osaka, Japan, Deborah Simpier, COO and cofounder of Althea Network, describes how this decentralized internet service provider works, what problem it's trying to solve, and how it uses Ethereum. She describes how neighbors provide each other with internet access, and how they pay each other automatically on pay-as-you-go plans using a stablecoin. She also covers how she came to found Althea, what challenges she faced in explaining how it worked to her non-crypto neighbors, and Althea's plans to expand to other areas, including urban areas and Nigeria. Thank you to our sponsors! Cryp...
2019-10-1128 min
Blockchain Insider Podcast by 11:FSEp. 10. China draws first regulatory blood on ICOs
In this episode:
Simon and Colin and special guest, Fintech Insider and 11:FS' Jason Bates, break down the top news stories of the week including:
-The PBOC declares ICOs illegal
Crypto markets tumble 20% as a result
Messenger app Kik raises funds to launch an ICO for its own currency, the kin.
And… Paris Hilton launches an ICO
They also debate why it is that bitcoin is currently considered a no-go zone by big banks?
Then Simon catches up with ICO lawyer and token expert Patrick Murck for his thoughts on token sales, IC...
2017-09-061h 06
On the Road with Legal Talk NetworkABA Annual Meeting 2017: Team Industry v. Team Start-upIn this report from On The Road, host Laurence Colletti talks to Patrick Murck about the effects of blockchain and regulatory technology (RegTech) on the long standing framework for financial regulation. They also discuss the tension of regulation between industries and start-ups. They also talk about how the advancement of both blockchain and RegTech will affect the legal industry at large. Patrick Murck is special counsel at Cooley LLP and a fellow at the Berkman Klein Center at Harvard practice. He focuses on the legal and regulatory issues facing fintech and emerging payment systems.
2017-08-1413 min
IMF PodcastsPatrick Murck: The Changing Face of Financial ServicesFinTech—or financial technology—is poised to revolutionize how the world does business. It could open new kinds of markets to many more people, but it could also threaten our financial privacy or make illicit financial transactions easier. In this podcast, Fintech expert Patrick Murck describes the coming transformation and its pitfalls. Contributors: Patrick Murck, fellow at the Harvard Berkman Klein Center for Internet and Society, and a Special Counsel at Cooley LLP.
2017-05-1208 min
Epicenter - Learn about Crypto, Blockchain, Ethereum, Bitcoin and Distributed TechnologiesPatrick Murck & Preston Byrne: Regulation Series by Siân JonesThis episode is part of our coverage of the Bitcoin 2014 Conference which took place in Amsterdam from May 15 to 17, 2014. These interviews were conducted by Siân Jones and focus on the area of regulation.
Topics covered in this episode:
Patrick Murck, General council of the Bitcoin Foundation
Preston Byrne, Securitisation lawyer at Norton Rose Fulbright in London
This episode is hosted by Siân Jones. Show notes and listening options: epicenter.tv/bitcoin2014-08
2014-07-1750 min