Shows
Hoping Mum and Dad5 Years of IVF ! The big one; Birthing part 2 of 2In this episode we share how things went in the early hours post birth and how we got on in hospital with little Zoe. It's a long day and we share all the little things we reflect no after. Including sending Fuzz ooff to get clothes thta actually fit her !
This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker.
LINKS
https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad
Fuzz’s Work -
Weddings - Portraits
https://www.christopherpaulweddings.com
Commercial Photography and Videography
https://www.chrischucas.com
2022-08-2133 minHoping Mum and Dad5 years for this - IVF - The Birth part 1 of 2Huge episode today, we are sharing our news that after 5 years and a lot of ups and downs we are finally here. (part 1 of 2)This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker. LINKShttps://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddadFuzz’s Work -Weddings - Portraitshttps://www.christopherpaulweddings.comCommercial Photography and Videographyhttps://www.chrischucas.com
2022-08-0938 minHoping Mum and DadHMAD Epsiode 50 - Update Final Growth ScanWe have a big baby on board - or so it has been estimated. Just a quick one this week with a little update about our not so little baby and the final growth scan and consultant appointment. We are counting down the days now and have induction booked!This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker. LINKShttps://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddadFuzz’s Work -Weddings - Portraitshttps://www.christopherpaulweddings.comCommercial Photography and Videographyhttps://www.chrischucas.com
2022-07-3102 minHoping Mum and DadBirth Plans or birth preferences? - Hoping Mum and Dad Podcast -049This week, we chat about our ideas for the impending arrival of baby Chucas. Do you prefer birth plans or birth preferences? We talk about the pros and cons of which terms to use and share what we’ve been up to lately. We’re doing our best to keep you up to date and post regularly, get in touch if you have any ideas or thoughts!This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker. LINKShttps://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddadFuzz’s Work -Weddings - Portraitshttps://www.christopherpaulweddings.comCommer...
2022-07-2700 minHoping Mum and Dad36 Weeks Pregnant - episode 048 Our thoughts on Hypno BirthingIt's been a while...we're checking in today to catch you up. Becky is now 36 weeks pregnant and feeling good, so becoming parents is an imminent reality! What?! We let you know what we've been up to at home, how the pregnancy is going and our early experiences with hypno birthing.26 Weeks Prgnant Becky tells us how it's going. Lots of naps, planning the baby room, sales people at baby shops. Waiting about still. This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker.
LINKS
Weddings...
2022-07-2516 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 047 - 10 Factors to Consider Before Ivf or Fertility TreatmentThis week we're doing something a little different. Sharing with you 10 things to consider before IVF or fertility treatment. These ideas are a mix of things we have thought about on our our jounrey and things we have learnt or that threw us along the way. We hope you find it useful! Do give us a shout over on instagram @hopingmumanddad if you have any thoughts or just need to talk!
2022-05-1536 minHoping Mum and Dad046 - Baby brain and pregnancy yogaAnother update and a shorter episode this week. From pregnancy yoga to the science behind baby brain (we're not scientists so don't hold us to our word). At 27 weeks Becky is preparing for the third trimester, it all seems to be creeping up pretty quickly!
2022-05-0727 minHoping Mum and Dad26 Weeks Pregnant - 04526 Weeks Prgnant Becky tells us how it's going. Lots of naps, planning the baby room, sales people at baby shops. Waiting about still. This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker.
LINKS
Weddings - Portraits
www.christopherpaulweddings.com
Commercial Photography and Videography
www.chrischucas.com
2022-04-2828 minHoping Mum and DadChecking in and a chat with Sarah from @Bessie_and_JessieChecking in and a chat with Sarah from @Bessie_and_Jessie - Talking about her journey with IVF and the positive creative outlet she uses.This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker.
LINKS
Weddings - Portraits
www.christopherpaulweddings.com
Commercial Photography and Videography
www.chrischucas.com
2022-04-2340 minHoping Mum and DadTwo Nervous IVF Parents - The Crash - Checking In ep-043Checking in with an update and talking about the stress and problems with being in a car crash (not our fault). More stressful times in the lead up to our first child being born. Crossing our fingers nerviously for the rest of the pregnancy now.
This channel is funded by ourselves. You can support us by hiring Fuzz. He's a Photographer and Film Maker.
LINKS
Weddings - Portraits
www.christopherpaulweddings.com
Commercial Photography and Videography
www.chrischucas.com
2022-04-2024 minHoping Mum and DadJust when things were going so well ( IVF )Really scary incident with Becky rushed to the EPU. We try and work out how things could've been better.
After some misinformation and lots of things not going right we talk about how we let our guard down and worrying and anxiety at this point.
2022-04-1030 minHoping Mum and DadA BIG ONE ! 041 - Our Last Chance! The Pregnancy Test Result Live !Results of our Frozen embryo transfer !. A big deal. We have footage from the hospital visit and Becky watches the recordings live on the podcast.
We share our experience of the second TWW and how the embryo transfer worked out.
TRIGGER WARNING: In this episode we include details of a pregnancy test result.
2022-04-0427 minHoping Mum and Dad040 - Frozen Embryo Transfer ... Please Survive The Ice Age !We chat about starting our FET protocol and how we prepared for this emotionally following the previous failed attempt. We start to question why the first time didn’t work and another transfer and two week wait. We approached the whole thing differently to last time.
2022-03-3026 minHoping Mum and Dad039 - After the first failed transfer , FFS what nowChecking in today with a newsy update on our next steps. What happens following a failed transfer when you have embryos in the freezer? How we had another interruption to treatment due to the pandemic and more of the sam - appointments to make appointments. What is the point?
2022-03-2927 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 038 - The Two Week Wait (TWW) Do Not Do What We Did !!!In this episode we talk about the dreaded two week wait, following transfer. Resisting and failing at the urges to test early and managing emotions throughout this process. We share our perspectives about the process so far and how we differ and the benefit of having a furry friend to cheer you up (not Fuzz in this case).
2022-03-1929 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 037 - Egg Collection and Embryo TransferThis week we talk about egg collection probably the biggest step yet in our IVF process and something lots of people might fear. We hope hearing about it will put your mind at ease! It can feel like a numbers game if you’re involved in the fertility community we talk about the outcomes of treatment and the all important embryo transfer.
2022-03-0829 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 035 - We're back! An update from where we left off, ...Hey, we're back! In this episode we update you on where we've been and how our journey has been since last April. This week we chat about the results of Fuzz's Urology appointment and our DNA results. We also share our treatment planning appointment and our next steps.
2022-03-0421 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 036 - Let's go our treatment finally starts.We chat this week about getting started on our first cycle of IVF with ICSI. But of course there is always a little bump in the road - screening tests first! Ours had expired We share our experience with the protocol, coping with injections and medication and the whole process leading up to what will be egg collection.
2022-03-0322 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 034 - Latest appointment and nocturnal Fuzz
In this episode we share what we’ve been up to in general. Fuzz (aka the family vampire) has been gradually making the switch from days to nights. We’ve been watching Lost, catching up safely with friends on socially distanced walks. Our latest appointment news and what to expect from our treatment/stims, we’re on the move! Watch out IVF we’re coming for you!https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/hopingmumanddad
2021-04-2230 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 033 - Urology and Awkward Couple AppointmentsWe're talking this week about our appointment with Urology and the sometimes 'uncomfortable' moment (or so Becky thinks) when you have to decide if you should go in together. Catching you up with our 'wild' lockdown life and our DIY escapades.https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/hopingmumanddad
2021-03-2531 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 032 - Latest appointment and nocturnal FuzzIn this episode we share what we’ve been up to in general. Fuzz (aka the family vampire) has been gradually making the switch from days to nights, we’ve been watching Lost, catching up safely with friends on socially distanced walks. Our latest appointment news and what to expect from our treatment/stims, we’re on the move! Watch out IVF we’re coming for you!https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/hopingmumanddad
2021-03-121h 00Hoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 031 - A Urology Appointment, Baby Names and Faith Purchases Hoping Mum and Dad - 030 - A Urology Appointment, Baby Names and Faith PurchasesJust us again, this week we share progress with our appointments or no-gress and seemingly pointless appointments, anyone relate? Also we talk about baby names what we have in mind, is it okay to share before you’ve had a baby? Also I’m knitting, we haven’t made any faith purchases though, what are your thoughts?https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/
2021-03-0556 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad – 030 - Becky and Fuzz checking in Feb 17th 2021This week is a quick one, sharing what’s new with us and what’s been on our mind. Also, have you made any fait purchases? We talk about whether it’s health to manifest what will be when ‘baby’ arrives and share our thoughts on gender stereotyping.https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/
2021-02-1819 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad – 029 Initial AppointmentsThis week we share the recent progress with our longer awaited treatment for IVF (ICSI). A bit confused and unsure about the next steps with Urology/Andrology. Becky shares her tips on how to dress for appointments after a mishap with a tight dress!https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/hopingmumanddadhttps://www.youtube.com/
2021-02-0929 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 028 - Fuzz's 5 minutes of fame and mental healthIn this weeks episode we share how Fuzz's interview with BBC Radio Wales went, sharing his experience with infertility. As well Rhod Gilbert's documentary 'Him Fertility' brought us onto the topic of mental health and how that has a huge impact on men and that its nuts (pardon the pun) that so many people don't know what an andologist is whilst Gynecology is the subject of so many jokes! We think it's important to talk so come and share with us anytime! https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/h...
2021-01-281h 04Hoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 027 - Next StepsWe have finally had an appointment so this week we share what's next. There are a few tests we have to finish up before we can progress, bloods, urology etc! We have a good old whinge about always being tired and share our fitness 'plans'.https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/hopingmumanddadhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFb_qEm_yv8eads8uIvcqPghttps://www.instagram.com/them_ancave/
2021-01-2241 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 026 - Big News!In this weeks episode we share our BIG news! The wait is finally over - we got the call from the clinic HOORAY. We talk about what’s next, what it means for us time wise and how although we’re super luck to have been given an appointment, things could still come crashing down again because of COVID. https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/https://www.facebook.com/hopingmumanddadhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFb_qEm_yv8eads8uIvcqPgFuzz's...
2021-01-1621 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 025 - Checking in with you 8th Jan 2021Checking in today with another episode. We are super close to our call maybe and nervously waiting to see how things pan out. Really worried about the situation in general over here in the UK. https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddadFuzz's other work - https://www.chrischucas.com
2021-01-0839 minHoping Mum and DadHappy Holidays from Hoping Mum and DadHere's a quick hello from me and Fuzz at Hoping Mum and Dad. Trying out our new equipment, wishing you all a happy festive season or 'holiday' and sharing what we've been up to.
https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad
Fuzz's other work -
https://www.chrischucas.com
https://www.christopherpaulweddings.com
2020-12-2828 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 024 - Checking in with you on Nov 12th 2020Another frustrating week with no news but also lot’s of bad numbers putting extra strain on our NHS heroes. We really hope we get back to a normal fish soon so we can start our treatment. We talk about a few articles we’ve seen about IVF including some stats and also want to encourage everyone to sing the petition to give our NHS staff a pay rise. Linkshttps://www.change.org/p/claps-don-t-pay-the-bills-give-all-nhs-workers-a-15-pay-rise-nhspay15https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/ivf/
2020-11-1221 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 023 - @Amber.Izzo and the IVF Postcode LotteryEpisode 23 - Amber Izzo and IVF Postcode LotteryIt’s Fertility Week 2020 and we have Amber Izzo with us to talk about the disaster that is the IVF Postcode Lottery! So many people are affected by this across the UK so we think it’s a great listen for everyone. We discuss the need for change in local CCG’s, the changes we need to make in education and issues such as PCOS. We are still in a stale mate ourselves waiting to hear about treatment and as COVID cases creep up, we know we’re no...
2020-11-0550 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 022 Chrissy and Tori @mybun_heroven Hoping Mum and Dad - 022 Chrissy and Tori @mybun_heroven It’s episode 22, how has this happened? So glad that people are listening and enjoying learning about the fertility world just as we are. This week we spoke to Tori and Chrissy (@mybun_heroven) about their experience of choosing to grow a family and the steps they’re taking to shared motherhood through Reciprocal IVF, shared motherhood and sperm donation. For us there is still no news - more waiting to come and another Welsh lockdown to keep us from keeping ourselves busy! https...
2020-10-2853 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 021 . Waiting about and almost in the Welsh 'Firebreak'We have been super busy with life and work and this week we are checking in with you and talking about life in general. The thing about IVF and infertility in general is that there is A LOT of waiting around involved. More so with the pandemic. Talking about stuff we've been watching, and what's been going on. https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/Fuzz's work - www.christopherpaulweddings.comwww.chrischucas.com
2020-10-2132 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 020 - Sandy Christiansen, Fertility CoachThis week we chat to the lovely Sandy Christiansen, a Fertility Coach who was also a practicing Embryologist. We loved chatting to Sandy and finding out how she can and does support couples going through the mind field that is infertility. It is a must listen to anyone interested in seeking that extra bit of support at any stage in their fertility trials and treatment. For us there is still no news we’re both tired as usual, and Fuzz is super pleased he can still have baths. Enjoy!https://www.instagram.com/sandychristiansen_/https://www...
2020-10-141h 05Hoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 019 - Becky and Fuzz - Annoyed delays from pandemic and misinformation making things worseIt’s a casual chatty one this week. We share how annoyed we are at our delayed timeline for treatment. The nightmare that is Covid19, slowing everything down and how pissed off we are at misinformation going around and no one heeding social distancing advice. I am feeling particularly broody and share how I’ve been desperate enough to scrape together some money to go private. Hope you all enjoy!https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/Fuzz's work - www.christopherpaulweddings.comwww.chrischucas.com
2020-10-0930 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 018 Nisreen - @ivf_uk_little_limaWe briefly go over some annoying news for ourselves and then caught up with Nis who shares her positive story and it was amazing. If you need some smiles and positivity this is a good episode. https://www.instagram.com/ivf_uk_little_lima/https://m.facebook.com/hopingmumanddad/Fuzz ( Chris's stuff)www.christopherpaulweddings.com (Fuzz's Business offering family portraits)www.chrischucas,com - Documentary bits
2020-10-0156 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad - 017 Elyse from @fuckyou_infertilityWe’ve got a sweary one for you this week! We spoke to Elyse from @fuckyou_infertility all about her experience with infertility so far, why she set up her instagram and how social media can be such a cathartic process and one of great community. Check out Elyse’s newest IG @ourinfertilitystories her hope is to make an awesome directory for people in the ttc to find answers and stories that will help support them. We chat about male factor infertility, ICSI, FET and much more, come and join us! We share how we’re doing too. We hope yo...
2020-09-2445 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad -016 Jennie and JonThis week we talk to Jennie and Jon about their experience with IVF and the journey to their rainbow baby Sofia. (Sofia does make a few appearances in this episode, so anyone not in the headspace to listen feel free to skip) We cover loss, ectopic pregnancy, failed IVF cycles and IVF abroad, there are so many twists and turns. Jennie also shares how important support networks are, so for anyone listening in the North West or near Liverpool please check out The Hewitt Centre. We share a little update with you about our progress too! Enjoy!ht...
2020-09-171h 06Hoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 015 - Fuzz talks solo about the male perspective in IVFWith Becky missing this week because life’s busy, Fuzz talks about our fertility struggles from his perspective. He shares his point of view as a man going through/waiting for IVF treatment and updates you on what is happening with us. If you are a guy going through this, here are a few links you can check out for support if you need it.Linkshttps://fertilitynetworkuk.org/events/men-only-fertility-group-online/https://www.instagram.com/them_ancavehttps://www.facebook.com/christopherpaulweddings/ (family portrait stuff)www.chris...
2020-09-1217 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 014 - Some news, and a chat with Chloe from Embaby about her art work. We are joined for a chat with Chloe from Embaby Art this week. Chloe is an incredible artist and midwife who’s work makes embryo, blastocyst and sonogram images that bit more tangible, with beautiful watercolour pieces. We talk about how she started out, the significance of her work to so many people who experience fertility issues or are TTC, midwifery, baby and birth photography, the list goes on. We found out we have so much in common - a new social media friendship I think! We also share an update on our own ‘journey’ with IVF and how we’re gettin...
2020-09-0348 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad Podcast #013 - Talking about ethics and a general catch up.In this weeks episode we have a frank conversation mainly about ethics. How things play out differently for couples who conceive via fertility treatment versus those who conceive naturally. We also touch upon our thoughts on egg, sperm and embryo donation with differing opinions! Fuzz shares his ideas about an art project highlighting the strength in community for those TTC and experiencing infertility. All whilst Becky holds back yawns (from fatigue I promise, not because I’m bored)! If you’re interested in taking part or would like to share your story then get in touch. :)
instagram.com/hopingmumanddad
Chri...
2020-08-2733 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 012 - Why we want a family and talking about childhoodIt was just us two this week and we had a really long talk about how we felt about starting a family, reflecting on our own childhoods a bit and thinking about baby names. We had fun !
2020-08-2041 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 011 - Sarah Cottee - Immi Watch CreatorThis week we were joined by our good friend Sarah Cottee, we talked about all things menstrual cycles, period poverty and the global lack of education surrounding this issue. If you’re interested in finding out more about Immi watch check out the links below.https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/a-watch-to-track-your-menstrual-cycle#/https://www.immiwatch.com/https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/
2020-08-1352 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 010 - Alice Matthews, Fertility Network UK n this weeks episode we chat to Alice Matthews from Fertility Network UK all about the services they offer as a charity. We discuss how TTC and infertility affects people in their workplace and the importance of connecting with peers in the TTC and infertility community for our mental wellbeing and support. If you are affected by any of these issues get in touch with us here or with Alice at Fertility Network UK, there is always an ear to listen and advice to help you on your way.https://fertilitynetworkuk.org/https://fertilitynetworkuk.org/how-we-can-help/support-groups/F...
2020-08-0641 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 009 - Slow Progress with the clinic and other life stuffMore of us this week, with updates on how we’re doing and where we are in our treatment. We’ve chased up with the Wales Fertility Institute about where we are on the list of priority for seeing patients and followed up about Fuzz’s genetic testing results. We discuss some ways of coping when treatment and infertility all becomes too much! https://www.immiwatch.com/https://www.instagram.com/hopingmumanddad/
2020-07-2415 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 008 - Just chilling, waiting on newsThis week it's us, we talk about the show so far and everything we’ve found out from our interviews with some incredible people in the TTC community. We have a few ideas about segments we might start and talk to you about what's going on with Wales Fertility Institute. Just us talking and waiting, still waiting.
2020-07-1622 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 007 - Kev from @them_ancaveIn this weeks episode we talk to Kev, also known as @them_mancave about male factor infertility, his work to raise awareness for infertility in men and the huge toll that it all takes on peoples mental health throughout their journey. Although not much is happening with our treatment we share some news we’ve heard on the grapevine and Kev challenges Fuzz to take part in the 25 push up challenge to raise awareness for mental health. We hope you enjoy it!https://www.instagram.com/them_ancave/?igshid=1x5aihhxwnyiwhttps://www.instagram.com/caitlinandleetrytobe3/?igshid=hr8...
2020-07-0852 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 006 - Operation FoxbryoThis week we speak to the lovely Liz and Nick (currently featured on Big Fat Negative podcast) about their experience with fertility and TTC. We cover topics from IVF cycles, both private and NHS, egg donation and adoption. Let us know what you would like to hear next, we’ve had some really helpful feedback and want to make this podcast as useful as possible! If you do have two minutes it would be awesome to leave us some feedback here or on YouTube. Our Youtube - https://bit.ly/HMADyoutubeThanks again t...
2020-07-0141 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 005 - Ed and Mina's storyWe’ve gone international in this weeks episode! A couple of weeks ago we spoke to our good friend Ed and found out about his experience of going through IVF in South Korea. Still no news for us on our treatment, but we have fingers crossed. Don’t forget to come check us out on Twitch on Tuesdays too!TwitchYoutubeInstagram
2020-06-2559 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 004 - Caitlin and Lee's story so farWe were joined this week by Caitlin and Lee who talk to us about the ups and downs they’ve faced whilst try to conceive their first baby. They talk to us about the importance of talking to others going through infertility and the perks of the trying to conceive community on Instagram! Becky hasn’t been so successful with her ‘fitness challenge’ and Fuzz shares his ideas behind starting a streaming account on Twitch to get talking to all you fellas and ladies! We’ll be hanging out Tuesdays at 7:30pmCatch up with Caitlin and Lee on their...
2020-06-1752 minHoping Mum and DadHOPING MUM AND DAD 003 - Egg Quality, WFI Update, Becky signs up for a fitness challenge.In this weeks instalment of Hoping Mum and Dad podcast we share our findings from an Egg Quality webinar with Fertility Network UK and Dr Amanda Oleary from CRGW. An update from Wales Fertility Institute on how things will work for patients since Covid-19 and the usual ramblings with Becky being challenged to do two 5k runs a week! Massive thanks to our inspiration @bigfatnegative and Alice Rose on podcast @fertilityliferaft Some cool people to go check out :https://fertilitynetworkuk.org/https://www.bigfatnegative.com/https://www.instagram.com/operation_foxbryo/...
2020-06-1133 minHoping Mum and DadHOPING MUM AND DAD 002 - WFI opening up, waiting, and baby namesThis week we're coming at you with more musings and thoughts on TTC and infertility. Listen to us chat nonsense about where we're at in our infertility experience, the Wales Fertility Institute being approved to open post pandemic. How we've coped with waiting and disappointment and chats about baby names.
2020-06-0427 minHoping Mum and DadHoping Mum and Dad 001 - Our Origin Story !We started a podcast to share our journey with IVF here in Wales. We want to cover the ups and downs and connect with all of those around us in the same place. It's better together. We talk about our journey so far, and the steps we need to look at next.
2020-05-2835 min