Shows
Risk! Engineers Talk GovernanceSeason 5 Wrap on Difficult Conversations & Engineering for CommunitiesIn this final episode of Season 5, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis conclude their theme of difficult conversations engineers need to have as well as discuss Engineering for Communities. They explore how engineering should focus on improving rather than maintaining the status quo, and the concerning trend of engineers being sidelined in critical decision-making processes.The discussion includes:How councils and planning decisions have become "de-engineered"The importance of due diligence beyond just health and safety - extending to environmental protection and project managementWhy engineers seem to have "vacated the field" in m...2025-05-3113 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceEngineering Due Diligence - The confusion between Risk, Assurance & DiligenceIn this episode of "Risk! Engineers Talk Governance," due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis revisit the fundamentals of engineering due diligence in response to listener feedback about confusion between risk, assurance and diligence.The discussion covers how R2A became specialised in due diligence engineering through their expert witness work, where they learned that due diligence serves as a defense against negligence with two key components: having reasonable control in place and taking all reasonable steps to protect against foreseeable harm.Richard explains their decision to move away from quantified risk assessments using...2025-05-2512 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceHow organisational silos impact due diligence across safety, projects and complianceIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis tackle the growing problem of organisational silos and their impact on due diligence and explore how siloed thinking undermines efforts across various domains—from safety, projects and regulatory compliance.Drawing from decades of industry experience, Richard traces the evolution of risk engineering. They then discuss the need for integrating expertise across the entire organisation to achieve genuinely diligent solutions that satisfy all stakeholders.Through real-world examples including waterfront safety designs in New Zealand and the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, th...2025-05-1809 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceBeing Relevant, Reasoned & Concise - for your Due Diligence ArgumentIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss why effective due diligence arguments need to be relevant, reasoned, and concise. They share their frustrations with overly complex safety documentation that fails to deliver clear, defensible arguments, and explain why safety cases should be brief yet comprehensive enough to stand up to legal scrutiny. Drawing from their extensive experience as expert witnesses and consultants, they offer practical advice on creating effective safety documentation that not only satisfies the courts and makes sense to lawyers and Boards, but ac...2025-05-1111 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceTarget Levels of Risk & Safety - SFAIRP vs ALARP RevisitedIn this episode, of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis revisit the distinction between SFAIRP (So Far As Is Reasonably Practicable) and Target Levels of Risk and Safety. They explain how target levels of risk continue to be problematic in engineering despite being legally unsupportable under WHS/OHS legislation and share examples of regulators and engineers still using outdated approaches and discuss why this confusion persists, pointing to issues with Standards and educational institutions that continue teaching these methods.They clarify that SFAIRP asks "Are all reasonable practical precautions i...2025-05-0413 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceWhy Standards are not the SolutionIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineering experts Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss why Standards are not the solution. They explore why following Standards can be problematic, outlining key issues: 1. Using Standards out of context;2. There’s no explanation for rationales;3. They don’t cover all things; and4. They are often lagging indicators.They share a number of examples within SIL, AS1940 and AS61508 that demonstrate the issues if you do blindly follow the Standard. The episode concludes with their answer to an often...2025-04-1316 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceInsurance Criteria: Its history, relevance, and the Highly Protected Risk (HPR) engineering processIn this episode of "Risk! Engineers Talk Governance," due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Insurance Criteria and its history and modern relevance, particularly focusing on the Highly Protected Risk (HPR) engineering process.Richard shares his experience training with Factory Mutual in the US and explains how the HPR approach originated in the 1840s with Zacharia Allen, a cotton mill owner who re-engineered his facility to minimise fire risks. When his insurance company refused to offer discounts for these improvements, Allen created a mutual pool with other safety-conscious factory owners, establishing an engineering-based approach to...2025-04-0615 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceHow to Prevent Catastrophic Project BlowoutsIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss: How to prevent catastrophic project blowouts. They discuss the three key considerations when undertaking project due diligence and preventing catastrophic project blowouts as: Ensure your scope is right, have identified your critical success outcomes are and all key stakeholders understand what the prize is and agree.Undertake a completeness check of threats. Project due diligence is not a risk assessment, it’s about controls, and putting in controls to protect against threats. Review...2025-03-3014 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceDifficult Conversations Engineers need to have about RiskIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis this season’s theme of "Difficult Conversations Engineers Need to Have About Risk". Key discussion points include:Risk is multidimensional. Risk covers a big domain that has lead to confusion.There are three different types of risk, but R2A’s focus is typically on safety risk and project risk – downside risk.Commercial industry like to focus on upside, downside risk (risk and reward, risk appetite and innovation), but Engineers should focus on downside risk.Innovation and Risk Management is good but...2025-03-2309 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceRisk Management & Negligence - Due Diligence Essentials for EngineersIn this first episode of Season 5 of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis provide an overview of their new booklet "Risk Management and Negligence - Due Diligence Essentials for Engineers". They discuss the importance of engineers to understand their responsibilities around risk management and due diligence, and the need to communicate this effectively to senior decision-makers. The booklet covers:You can’t always be right but you can be diligentWhat it means to be an engineer todayThe risk management swampMethods to drain the swampDue diligence domainsThey also...2025-03-1615 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceSeason 4 Wrap: Due Diligence as a Governance Process, Dam Safety & the Relevance of Due DiligenceIn the final episode of Season 4 of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis wrap up the key theme of the season of due diligence as a governance process. They also provide another industry example in Dam Safety, and discuss the relevance of WHS/OHS legislation and the state of prosecutions.Key take-aways include: The due diligence process is a governance process that focuses on high consequence, low likelihood events rather than risk management.Dam safety highlights how regulators focus on the worst-case scenario of a dam failure r...2024-12-0110 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceBush Fire Risk, Due Diligence & Mitigation ControlsIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss due diligence for bushfires.Richard has been involved in advising on bushfire risk and controls since Ash Wednesday in 1984, while both Richard and Gaye as R2A were involved with bushfire assessments post Black Saturday in 2009. Their discussion highlights:Bushfire season is getting longer, and the ability to prepare for it is getting shorter. Volunteer firefighters are also declining.Bushfire best practice for local planning for protection has adopted a vulnerability approach – criticality rather than likelihood.From a d...2024-11-2410 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceDue Diligence in the Electrical & Power IndustryIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss due diligence in the electrical and power industry.They discuss due diligence and risk management considerations in the sector, with examples that focus on renewable energy sources like wind turbines and the potential role of nuclear power in Australia's energy mix. Key points include:The need to carefully assess and document the safety and emergency protocols even for foreseeable events like fires.The trade-offs involved in designing effective systems which can sometimes introduce new risks.The challenges of transitioning...2024-11-1713 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceObligations for Engineers under WHS/OHS legislationIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the obligations for engineers under the WHS legislation (OHS Act in Victoria) and understanding the importance of their role if things go wrong.They discuss the fact that Work Health and Safety (WHS) legislation is the overarching legislation in Australia that must guide engineering design and decision-making, and their surprise at this lack of awareness and how many still (wrongly) use Standards as a design basis.They emphasise that engineers are central to upholding WHS requirements, as they...2024-11-1014 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceDue Diligence in Marine PilotageIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the application of due diligence in the Marine Pilotage industry. They discuss various consulting work they’ve done with Marine Pilots across Australia and New Zealand ports, and summarise the key take-away that the process is no different for pilotage due diligence reviews than any other (industry’s) due diligence review. That is, There needs to be an argument as to why all the credible critical issues have been identified. In a port, they typically look at all the...2024-10-2012 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceDue Diligence Essentials for Engineers - R2A's New BookletIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the new booklet titled "Due Diligence Essentials for Engineers" being authored by Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis. They talk about the need for the booklet being that Engineers are becoming more involved in the governance process in providing information to boards, directors and senior people. Engineers are ones aware of the critical things that can go wrong and what boards need to know about for their due diligence obligations under the WHS/OHS legislation.Other areas of discussion i...2024-10-1313 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceLaws of Man vs Laws of Nature in the Due Diligence ContextIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the differences between the "laws of man" and the "laws of nature" in the context of due diligence engineering. Drawing on their experiences as Expert Witnesses in the Australian and NZ judicial systems, the conversation covers the following key points:A brief history of Common Law.The adversarial system in common law, where lawyers argue different sides of a case before a judge or jury, differs from the inquisitorial system in civil law jurisdictions.The principle of "innocent until p...2024-10-0612 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceAviation Industry & the Application of the Due Diligence ProcessIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the application of the due diligence process to the aviation industry. Richard discusses his recent presentation to the Australian Aviation Wildlife Hazard Group where he used the expert witness view: What is it that could have been done and if it had been done, would it have stopped it going wrong? Key take-aways:- Hazards and vulnerabilities in aviation, - Why R2A stays away from the term risk and adopts the military approach which is...2024-09-2914 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceAI (Artificial Intelligence), Robots, Controls & Liability In this episode, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss controls and liability when it comes to AI and robots. OHS/WHS legislation require achieving the highest level of hazard control that is reasonably practicable. AI/Robots present potential controls to address many safety issues and can be implemented to improve safety. They discuss a number of examples where AI and robots are already enhancing safety and removing people from dangerous tasks, and when it comes to due diligence, organisations would need to demonstrate why it is not reasonably practicable to use them. 2024-09-2212 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceThe Judicial Need for Reliable Knowledge and to Demonstrate Causation.In the first episode of Season 4 of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the judicial need for reliable knowledge and the need to demonstrate causation. They highlight some of their Expert Witness examples to demonstrate how for the courts to come to a decision, they have to not only have an understanding of what went wrong, but if there was something that could have been done that would've prevented the incident. And if this hasn’t been made clear, then making a decision becomes very complicated. From the poin...2024-09-1512 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceMajor IT Outage - Criticality & ResilienceIn this special Risk! Engineers Talk Governance episode, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the recent IT outage that affected systems worldwide and the importance of criticality and resilience. Main take-aways include:The outage was predictable and foreseeable. It was a critical incident.You can't gold plate a single system so that it won't fail. The importance of redundancy – ensuring you've got another independent system that doesn't rely on the primary system.Engineering organisations are required to look at the credible worst case scenarios that can happen and what you can do and put...2024-07-2309 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceWrap of Season 3 - Criticality & Design and Climate Change Design OptionsIn the final episode of season three of the Risk! Engineers Talk Governance podcast, due diligence engineers Richard Roberson and Gaye Francis discuss the theme of criticality and design in the context of climate change and sustainability due diligence. They discuss:The consequences of redirecting rivers for irrigation, Why the Victorian Government built the, to now, unused desalination plant, and argue if they should be considering the potential impacts of global warming,Three possible design solutions: Sun shields, increasing cloudiness, and fertilising the Southern Ocean to address climate change, andHow knowledge, technology and costs of...2024-06-0913 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceTown Planning Disasters - The need for consquence planning, not risk planningIn this episode of the Risk! Engineers Talk Governance podcast, due diligence engineers and Co-Directors at R2A Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis, discuss town planning disasters and the need for consequence planning. This follows Gaye’s recent conference paper at the International Public Works Conference where she detailed the VCAT decision around the major hazard facility and the planning law associated with it. But in this podcast, they reflect on other natural hazards like floods, bushfires, dam breaks and how town planning can address (or fail to address) these before they happen. ...2024-06-0212 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceHow Standards stifle innovationIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis from R2A discuss how standards stifle innovation. They highlight the frustration of engineers who are designing to standards rather than focusing on solving the actual problem at hand. They argue that standards are often lag indicators and may not keep up with the rapidly changing world and provide examples of how standards can lead to shortcuts being taken and hinder the adoption of new technologies. If you’d like more information about Richard and Gaye...2024-05-2612 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceRisk Appetite versus Zero Harm & the Confusion at Board levelsIn this podcast episode, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the concept of risk appetite versus zero harm and the confusion it creates at board levels because they're trying to put all of their risk issues into a single statement.They discuss how a risk appetite is about balancing risk and reward, whereas zero harm is about nothing bad happening, and this gets uncomfortable when applying risk appetite to human safety. The outline the commonly applied risk paradigms and how a synthesis of risk appetite in commercial and safety practice does occur i...2024-05-1909 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceCode of Practice & WHS/OHS ConfusionIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss Code of Practice and WHS/OHS confusion in relation to a presentation they delivered to the Dam Owners and Operators' Forum in Queensland recently, called "How do we do ALARP? Meeting a duty of care." They explain how the Code of Practice doesn’t align with WHS/OHS legislation and if you conduct an “augmented ALARP” as suggested by the ANCOLD (Australian National Committee on Large Dams) Guideline it does not promote innovation or an efficient due diligence process. and that this exi...2024-05-1209 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceArt & Engineering - How being a great artist relates to the engineer's rolesIn this episode of the Risk! Engineers Talk Governance podcast, Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the relationship between art and engineering. They draw parallels between the roles of artists and engineers, highlighting the importance of composition, execution, and management in both fields. They outline the different types of engineers, such as creators, managers/consultants, and specialists, and the need for all three types in successful engineering organisations. Richard emphasises the importance of recognising and focusing on one's strengths in order to have a satisfying and successful career. Their conversation also touc...2024-05-0509 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceControl & Reasonableness in WHS/OHS LegislationIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss control and reasonableness in WHS/PHS legislation. They explain that the WHS/OHS legislation is a statutory statement of the common law duty of care and a defence against negligence, and that there’s two primary controls for negligence defence: no power defence (lack of control) and doing every reasonably practicable thing to address the matter. The aspect of control is built into the reasonableness decision in the legislation. The episode also covers:the importance of not getting caught up in a...2024-04-2809 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceR2A's Due Diligence Process - Why it worksIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss R2A's preferred approach to due diligence. They explain why they start with a top-down approach, usually starting with the military intelligence, threat and vulnerability technique. And how often organisations who have started with a bottom-up process have been floundering for some time, come to R2A to cut through the detail.Richard and Gaye also discuss:· importance of selecting the right tools and techniques for the job,· need for multiple p...2024-04-2113 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceDesign trumps Risk Assessment - Our VCAT Hearing Success (as Expert Witnesses)In this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss their recent success (as Expert Witnesses) at VCAT (Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal) and how design trumps risk assessment. They discuss their case involving an application for a building permit in the outer safety zone of a major hazard facility. WorkCover advised against building two new dwellings due to increased population and societal risk. However, Richard and Gaye, as expert witnesses, argued that proper safety and design measures, such as laminated windows and steel roofs, could mitigate the risks. The VCA...2024-04-1415 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceDesign Analysis not Risk AnalysisIn this episode of the podcast "Risk! Engineers Talk Governance," due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the topic of design analysis versus risk analysis. They explore the difference between ALARP (as low as reasonably practicable) and SFAIRP (so far as reasonably practicable) and how the interpretation of these concepts has caused confusion and problems in various industries. They also discuss the importance of safety in design and the need for a retrospective design review to ensure that all reasonable practical precautions are in place. The conversation also touches on the role of AI...2024-04-0712 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceSeason 2 Wrap Up: De-engineering of Technical Roles and Engineering Education & PhilosophyIn the final episode of Season 2 of the Risk! Engineers Talk Governance podcast, due diligence engineers Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the de-engineering of technical roles in organisations and engineering education and philosophy. They reflect on their experience as expert witnesses at a recent hearing where technical knowledge was lacking in person, and they highlight the importance of having engineers involved in and/or advising on technical roles. They also discuss the de-engineering of organisations and the shift towards a more compliance-focused approach. They touch on the need for engineers to have a global v...2024-01-2816 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceNuclear Power Safety - How The Finnish Get It Right Before They ProceedIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss nuclear power safety with reference to Finland. Gaye shares her personal experience as an exchange student in Finland and her connection to the Olkiluoto Power Station. They discuss Finland's approach to nuclear power, including their focus on managing nuclear waste with a whole-of-life appreciation for nuclear power, and that they involve the community as stakeholders in decision-making. They also highlight Finland's commitment to safety and their precaution-based approach rather than risk-based. If you’re like to learn more a...2024-01-2111 minRisk! Engineers Talk GovernanceSafety Culture & Women's PPEIn this episode of Risk! Engineers Talk Governance, Richard Robinson and Gaye Francis discuss the importance of safety culture for women's personal protective equipment (PPE) in the workplace. Gaye shares her experience of encountering ill-fitting and uncomfortable PPE during her consulting career, which led her to advocate for better-fitting PPE for women. She explains the journey of founding Apto PPE, a women's and maternity fit-for-purpose safety workwear business, with the support of R2A. They discuss the challenges of getting proper fitting PPE for women in the market and the slow uptake of these options. 2024-01-1411 min