Shows
The Bible and BeyondBeyond the Canon: Why Apocrypha MattersAn Interview with Dr. Tobias Nicklas Professor Tobias Nicklas explores the surprising world of Christian Apocrypha — stories and traditions that continued shaping faith far beyond the biblical canon. From the Infancy Gospel of Thomas to the Acts of John and the Acts of Paul and Thecla, these writings raise profound questions about Jesus's humanity and childhood, a suffering God, and the role of women and imagination in early Christianity. Their influence, Nicklas shows, still colors Christian memory and art today. Professor Tobias Nicklas studied Theology and Mathematics at Universität Regensburg, Germany, and he did his...
2025-11-0536 min
The Bible and BeyondHeresies, Power, and the Forgotten Voices of Early ChristianityHeresies, Power, and the Forgotten Voices of Early Christianity An Interview with Dr. Bart Ehrman Shirley Paulson talks with Bart Ehrman about his new course on early Christian heresies. Together they explore why "right belief" became a matter of life and death, how women and household voices were often silenced, and what these early debates reveal about power, diversity, and faith. Christianity is the only religion to have evolved on a foundation of right and wrong belief. Their conversation touches on Christianity's complex origins—and why those ancient arguments still matter today. Bart D...
2025-10-2415 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Council of Nicaea at 1700 Years: Why It Still MattersAn Interview with The Reverend Benjamin Wyatt This year marks the 1700th anniversary of the Council of Nicaea, a turning point in Christian history. In this episode, Rev. Benjamin Wyatt, Episcopal priest and author of Christ and the Council, joins Shirley Paulson to explore the controversies that led to the Nicene Creed, Constantine's role in enforcing unity, and why debates about Christ's divinity mattered so deeply. Their conversation sheds light on the messy, human realities behind doctrines still shaping Christianity today. The Reverend Benjamin Wyatt is an Episcopal priest, serving as the Priest-in-Charge at the...
2025-10-0134 min
The Bible and BeyondIs It Possible Paul Didn't Write ANY of the New Testament Letters?An Interview with Dr. Nina Livesey After Livesey demonstrated that authenticity of the Pauline letters was inadequately and uncritically determined, she didn't think it was possible to make a good case that the letters were authentic, even though it's so commonly assumed that they are. Once she had gone through all of that, she looked for evidence of Pauline letters. The first ones appear in the mid-second century, from the school of Marcion! Livesey was not the first to make that discovery. Dr. Nina Livesey a professor emerita of religious studies at the Oklahoma University...
2025-09-0339 min
The Bible and BeyondThecla's Challenge to Both Rome and the Early Christian WorldAn Interview with Dr. Perry Kea When the young teen, Thecla, heard Paul's preaching about a new kind of life following Christ, she became infatuated with both the message and the messenger. Abandoning her fiancé and her Roman aristocratic life style, she faced two death threats, discovered her own strength and worth, and matured in her appreciation for both Paul and his teachings. She bought into the ascetic way of life and insisted on her rights as a woman with authority. Dr. Perry Kea has been an active Scholar of the Westar Institute since 1987. He s...
2025-08-0638 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Complicated Lives of Enslaved Women of the BibleThe Complicated Lives of Enslaved Women of the Bible An Interview with Dr. Christy Cobb Bible readers tend to skip over the stories of enslaved people because they seem to be treated as props for the 'real' meaning or main message of the biblical account. But a closer look at the lives of these marginalized enslaved people in the stories—such as sex workers who were might have been sold to brothels against their will—enriches our understanding of the Bible. Recognizing the invisible attitudes and forces help us rethink the stories' meanings. Dr...
2025-07-0233 min
The Bible and BeyondMore Connections Between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi LibraryPart 2 of our interview with Matthew Goff and Dylan Burns continues the discussion we started in Part 1 about the relationship between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library. Goff and Burns explain the significant differences between the two, such as their different dates and locations of origin. But they also explore the similarities, with their mutual interest in more ancient writings, such as how some important figures from Genesis—such as the Book of Watchers, with its myths of evil origins— came from Enoch; and how Melchizedek was the priest associated with the Christ figure. This...
2025-06-0440 min
The Bible and BeyondIs There a Connection Between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library?Is There a Connection Between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library? An Interview with Dr. Matthew Goff and Dr. Dylan Burns (Part 1) Professors Matthew Goff and Dylan Burns realized there were some surprising commonalities between the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi Library. Traditionally, these ancient writings are studied separately, despite their modern discoveries around the same time and relatively close locations. With Dr. Goff's expertise in the Dead Sea Scrolls and Dr. Burns' expertise in the Nag Hammadi Library, they could describe why both are so important for an understanding of...
2025-05-0733 min
The Bible and BeyondIntroducing the Gospel of Philip from the Nag Hammadi CollectionAn interview with Dr. Kimberley Fowler Dr. Kimberley Fowler explains the Gospel of Philip, one of the lesser known texts from the Nag Hammadi collection. She loves it and finds it "charmingly and remarkably weird," even though is it does not stray too far from orthodox Christian theology. Although it includes a brief reference to Jesus kissing Mary, that kiss seems to be only one of the many ritual Christian practices explained in the rather randomly organized gospel. Kimberley Fowler is Assistant Professor of New Testament at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands. Her...
2025-04-0234 min
The Bible and BeyondWhat Was Jesus's Religious Life Like?An Interview with Dr. Meredith J. C. Warren We asked Dr. Meredith J. C. Warren to describe how Jesus's family and followers would have practiced their religion. They were probably a typical Jewish family, where the types of houses and everyday life were all intertwined with religious practices. She claims that both Jesus and his mother were probably less unusual than we have been taught to think, especially in everyday life—except that Jesus was probably more radical in his commitment to Torah teachings. Dr. Meredith J. C. Warren is a Senior Lecturer in Biblical an...
2025-03-0535 min
The Bible and BeyondWhat is the Nag Hammadi Library?What is the Nag Hammadi Library? An Interview with Dr. Dylan Burns Dr. Dylan Burns, a leading scholar on the "Nag Hammadi Library" and related texts, describes the significance of the 1945 archaeological discovery in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. It is not only of great importance for a better understanding of Christian origins, but many of the texts also reveal a great beauty and probing inquiry into the meaning of the divine in human experience. Their great diversity and welcome for women leadership were among the greatest surprises. Dr. Dylan M. Burns is Assistant Professor...
2025-02-0539 min
The Bible and BeyondWhat Do Jesus and Plato Have In Common?An Interview with Dr. David Galston Some obvious differences between Plato and Jesus would include the fact that Plato preceded Jesus by three and a half centuries. Jesus was a Jewish teacher; Plato was a Greek philosopher. Plato taught with dialogues; Jesus taught with parables. But they are both figures of wisdom. Both styles are placed in everyday life, and yet both teachers encourage their students to exercise critical thinking and to discover reality beyond the obvious. David Galston is the CEO Executive Director of the Westar Institute, which defines itself as "pursuing honest and...
2025-01-0831 min
The Bible and BeyondHealing in Antiquity: Medicine, Magic, Ritual, Demons, and GnosisAn Interview with Dr. Andrew Crislip Ancient concepts of bodily functions differ so radically from modernity, we need a basic overview of these beliefs in order to understand both early Christian and non-Christian healing methods. Two competing concepts were viewed as causes for disease: an imbalance of 'humors' in the body and an 'invasion' of the normally healthy body. Jesus's approach was addressing invasions, such as demons. By the second-century, thinkers had expanded the idea of illness to a broader sense of evil. Dr. Crislip is Professor of History and Blake Chair in the History o...
2024-12-0431 min
The Bible and BeyondHow Can You Tell When an Ancient Text Is Gnostic, Jewish, or Christian?An interview with Dr. Samuel Zinner Dr. Samuel Zinner describes the ancient Apocryphon (or Secret Book) of James, then, focusing on two common elements in so-called 'gnosticism'—the meaning of the demiurge and ascending—he shows how this text does not neatly fit any category. It includes no reference to demiurge, but it does involve a lengthy and unusual description of Jesus, Peter, and James all ascending. Inclusion in the Nag Hammadi collection does not necessarily define something as 'gnostic,' as this text illustrates. Zinner is an award-winning author and scholar of Holocaust studies, ecumen...
2024-11-0634 min
The Bible and BeyondWas Jesus a Better Jew than the Jews?An Interview with Dr. Amy Jill Levine Amy-Jill Levine, a distinguished New Testament scholar, provides examples of Christian commentators making Jewish practices and beliefs look bad in order to make Jesus look good. A more realistic understanding of these Jewish practices helps us understand Jesus better and understand Judaism more respectfully. Examples of these Jewish beliefs and practices include feminist perspectives, being identified as the Chosen Ones, and stereotypical attitudes about wealth and purity laws. Professor Amy-Jill Levine is the Rabbi Stanley M. Kessler, Distinguished Professor of New Testament and Jewish Studies at Hartford International...
2024-10-0234 min
The Bible and BeyondHow Does Paul Understand Resurrection?An Interview with John Dominic Crossan Crossan draws on Paul's life and experience as a devoted Pharisee to understand his insights and expectations for the meaning of resurrection. Unlike the well-known ancient belief in ascension, which was reserved for the near-Godlike humans, Pharisees believed in resurrection for everyone. This was based on a faith in the end time. Paul's revelation about the resurrection was his realization that Jesus – as Messiah – had begun the general resurrection! He was the first to see Jesus this way.
2024-09-0438 min
The Bible and BeyondWhere Did Gnostic Ideas Come From?An Interview with Dr. April DeConick April DeConick theorizes about how gnostic ideas that emerged as a concept in antiquity keep reproducing themselves within different environments. This is one of the things that propelled religion toward its therapeutic aspect and individual relations to God. It came about during the desperate time of harsh Roman occupation, when people felt let down by their gods. Looking for some divine justice, they imagined a new kind of relationship to God, as children of God. Dr. April DeConick holds the Isla Carroll and Percy E. Turner Professorship in New...
2024-08-0734 min
The Bible and BeyondApostolic Authority: An Ancient Text Offers a Humorous CritiqueAn Interview with Dr. Kimberly Bauser McBrien Kimberly Bauser McBrien finds the Secret Book of James to be a humorous critique on the idea of apostolic authority. From our 21st-century perspective, it is difficult to decipher the difference between a weird or absurd tale from a clever parody on a serious subject. She argues that this late second century author is taking shots at his contemporaries who gave weight to apostolic credentials through false claims of unity or the experience of temporary ascending. Dr. Kimberly Bauser McBrien is a Lecturer at Trinity University, teaching various...
2024-07-0335 min
The Bible and BeyondMacrina: A Remarkable 4th-Century Christian WomanAn Interview with Dr. Erin Galgay Walsh Macrina was born into a wealthy and historically important Christian family. Her virtuous life, devoted to Christ, was based on her ascetic ideals. That is, she rejected human pleasures and comforts in order to free herself to be fully present to Christ. The 4th century text, The Life of Macrina, which was written by her brother Gregory, describes her as a woman living the angelic life, the" life of the resurrected body." Professor Erin Galgay Walsh teaches at the University of Chicago Divinity School and is a scholar o...
2024-06-0533 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Strange "Secret Gospel of Mark" is Likely Real, Not a ForgeryAn Interview with Dr. Tony Burke If the Secret Gospel of Mark turns out to be authentic, it could provide important insights into early Christian thought and practices. Popular theory claims it is mere forgery, however, created and circulated due to pro-homosexual motives. Professor Tony Burke explains the origin of the text, its content, the basis for the doubt, and the reasons for his own support of the theory of authenticity. He sees a more mystical interpretation than an erotic one. Dr. Tony Burke is a Professor in the Department of the Humanities at York...
2024-05-0136 min
The Bible and BeyondWhat Texts Did the Early Jesus People Read?An Interview with Dr. David Brakke David Brakke challenges the common notion that Christians had a New Testament type of Bible by around 200. Rather, he claims, their Bible was Jewish scriptures plus a wide variety of written texts by Jesus followers used in multiple contexts. Marcion and his followers would have been the exception, since he rejected the Jewish writings. Brakke's recent analysis of two ancient Christian texts concludes that the early Christian years were diverse and served different purposes before the biblical canon was established. Irenaeus, the Church Father of the second century, probably...
2024-04-0333 min
The Bible and BeyondHas a Missing Fragment of the Gospel of Mary Been Discovered? An interview with Dr. Sarah Parkhouse Dr. Sarah Parkhouse has made a discovery that is quite noteworthy for anyone interested in the Gospel of Mary. One of the hundreds, if not thousands, of small fragments of papyri found in the garbage dump Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, just might be a missing part of the Gospel of Mary. The fragment includes a description of baptism, which is closely related to the ascent of the soul in the portions of the gospel we already have.
2024-03-0632 min
The Bible and BeyondSimon Magus: Who Is He in the Bible?An interview with Dr. David Litwa The strange story of Simon in the Bible illustrates the uncomfortable truth that Christianity seems to reinvent itself when it defines itself in opposition to its perceived enemies. In this biblical account, Simon (later called Simon Magus) appears to have been repenting properly from his mistake of offering to pay for the spiritual instructions, when Peter lashed out at him harshly. Litwa thinks the Acts of the Apostles was written many decades after the struggle between Simon of Samaria and Peter, and the author of Acts appears to have used...
2024-02-0732 min
The Bible and BeyondJesus's Peaceful Resistance to Rome Based on Genesis 1An Interview with John Dominic Crossan John Dominic Crossan draws on his own Irish life experiences to create an image of Jesus living in an empire dominating the Jewish world of Jesus. The Roman Empire might have been perceived as "the world of civilization," accomplishing great power and wealth. But this success came at the expense of its conquered nations. Jesus's nonviolent opposition to Rome originated in his perception of Sabbath creation of Genesis 1, in other words, the divine means of distributive justice.
2024-01-0337 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Jewish World of Jesus: A Modern Rabbi's ViewAn Interview with Rabbi Evan Moffic Rabbi Evan Moffic, senior rabbi at a vibrant Reform Jewish congregation in northern Illinois, thinks Christians can understand Jesus's words and works better – and Jews and Christians can understand each other better -- by considering the Jewish world of Jesus more fully. In this podcast interview, he explains Jesus's relationship to his students, why Jesus himself was not apocalyptic, the Jewish origin of his 'Lord's Prayer,' and the spiritual purpose behind his miracle acts and healings.
2023-12-0833 min
The Bible and BeyondMarriage and Singleness in Early Christianity: Attitudes and PracticesAn interview with Dr. Susan M. (Elli) Elliott In answer to a listener's question about how attitudes toward singleness evolved in Christianity, Dr. Elliott draws on her knowledge of family legislation that Caesar Augustus inflicted on the Romans well before Jesus's ministry. Followers of Jesus often followed the common but conflicting Roman attitudes toward elite and lower-class women. But early on, they also assumed a counter-cultural position against the notion that spouses were disposable.
2023-11-0132 min
The Bible and BeyondContemplating the Complexities of Christian MartyrdomAn interview with Dr. Deborah Saxon. Martyrdom in antiquity was often a painful choice. The dual powers of religion and politics made those decisions complex, but also caused a search for identity. Christians had to determine whether they would live under Roman systems, by Christian faithfulness, or by imagining a reward with Christ after martyrdom. Disagreements arose between advocates for martyrdom and those who opposed its glorification. Our modern reading of the ancient writings should take these differences into account.
2023-10-0432 min
The Bible and BeyondRead Ancient Texts Outside the BibleAn interview with Dr. James McGrath Professor James McGrath explains why you should read ancient texts outside the Bible. A knowledge of apocryphal and other noncanonical texts give more background to biblical writings. The meaning of canon itself becomes clearer in the context of the many cousin-like texts that relate to the biblical writings. McGrath demonstrates this with an exploration of the books of Enoch, the history of the Maccabeans, the widespread beliefs in demons or unclean spirits, angels, the meaning of hell (Gehenna), and other topics.
2023-09-0632 min
The Bible and BeyondExploring Ancient New Testament Gospel ManuscriptsAn Interview with Dr. Jeremiah Coogan Dr. Jeremiah Coogan, a scholar of ancient manuscripts, explains the significance of the recent discovery of an ancient palimpsest. That's an ancient writing found underneath other writing that had covered it. The object we're discussing contains the Old Syriac translation fragment of the gospel of Matthew, and it gives us a window into what the text of some Greek copy of Matthew would have looked like in the late second century. Coogan also discusses his work with gospel prefaces.
2023-08-0231 min
The Bible and BeyondWas Ancient Manichaeism Christian?An interview with Dr. Jason BeDuhn. Dr. Jason BeDuhn, an expert on Manichaeism, takes us into the ancient world where Mani was a leader of early Jesus followers in the East, before the fourth century Council of Nicea. He paints an intriguing picture of Mani's interpretation of Jesus's teachings and how Christianity might have been different if he hadn't lost the competition with other leaders from the West. Mani's followers saw his willingness to sacrifice for others parallel to Jesus's martyrdom.
2023-07-0538 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Historical Jesus: Surprise Yourself!An Interview with Dr. Joseph Bessler. Dr. Joseph Bessler challenges and delights us with his suggestions that learning what we can about the historical Jesus contributes to the betterment of society. The surprise of the past few decades has been the revelation that our traditional teaching of Jesus has been used to silence the voices of any 'other.' Certain texts reinforce certain theologies. But the loving gesture of listening to others brings to our attention surprising texts we have not noticed before.
2023-06-0732 minThe Bible and BeyondUnraveling the Blood Curse in the Gospel of MatthewAn interview with Dr. Arthur J. Dewey Arthur Dewey explains how the "blood curse," based on Jesus's trial before Pilate, has been taken out of context and turned into a false basis for blaming Jews as a whole for the death of God. The "trial" in the Gospel of Matthew (which could not have taken place historically) was based on Mark's original critique against the leaders of the Jews. This was another one of many squabbles among different Jewish factions.
2023-05-0338 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Biblical Meaning of ResurrectionAn interview with Dr. B. Brandon Scott Dr. Brandon Scott explains the complicated history of resurrection. It was not an Easter celebration during biblical times, but the hope of God's restoration of things was handed down from Daniel and the Maccabees. Sacrifice was widespread in the ancient world, not because of sins, but as an act intended to realign the world with God. Writing of Jesus's death come from a conviction that his death was not defeat but that God made him alive. Bernard Brandon Scott is the Darbeth Distinguished Professor of New Testament Emeritus, P...
2023-04-0538 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Bible and Beyond Podcast's 50th EpisodeEarly Christian Texts is celebrating the 50th episode of our Bible and Beyond Podcast! We have collected snippets from ten episodes featuring several of our interviews since the podcast first aired in 2019. All fifty episodes have been quite unique and fascinating, but these ten excerpts exemplify the depth and breadth of the topics we covered — from why anyone should even look at extracanonical writings to the meaning of Jesus' passion.
2023-03-0135 minThe Bible and BeyondIs the Book of Acts Historically Accurate?This month Shirley interviews Perry Kea, an expert scholar on the Book of Acts. Dr. Kea explains why the objectives of the author of the Book of Acts differ from simple historical documentation. The letters of Paul provide an excellent example of such differences and illustrate why the objective of the Book of Acts is inconsistent with historical facts. Stories in Acts were a means of using resources to address other questions, such as the source of authority for the new Christian movement.
2023-02-0135 minThe Bible and BeyondA Jew and a Christian Discover CommonalityDr. Jennifer Stollman, a Conservative Jew, surprised herself by discovering a couple of 'game-changers' in her reading of Paulson's book, Illuminating the Secret Revelation of John: Catching the Light. As a self-described activist, Stollman was startled to consider an elevated sense of God that challenges traditional beliefs in the permanence of evil. A second 'game-changer' for Stollman was the new interpretation of Eve as a partner for Adam, an idea lifting women from being complicit and susceptible.
2023-01-0436 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Magi and the Star in the Christmas StoryAn interview with Dr. Eric Vanden Eykel 'The Magi' of antiquity were usually religious professionals who were almost always associated with people in power, such as kings. But they were not kings themselves. Therefore Dr. Eric Vanden Eykel thinks the author of the Gospel of Matthew uses the characters of 'the magi' (instead of the shepherds who appear in the Gospel of Luke) to make a political point about the kingly identity of Jesus. A close reading of the details about the star and the gifts in Matthew also supports the political message.
2022-12-0731 minThe Bible and BeyondMary Magdalene was Probably Not from MagdalaAn interview with Elizabeth Schrader Polczer Elizabeth Schrader Polczer claims that there has always been controversy over Mary Magdalene's name and birthplace. She argues that Mary Magdalene was probably not from Magdala. So the name we use to refer to her should be 'Mary Magdalene' and not 'Mary of Magdala' for both historical reasons and the fact that Mary appears in better light if she came from Bethany instead of Magdala. However, Polzcer discusses the conflicting evidence from antiquity and concludes that acknowledging multiple legitimate interpretations is probably the best way to honor her memory.
2022-11-0234 minThe Bible and BeyondCorrecting the Mary Magdalene Smear CampaignAn interview with Rev. Kyndall Rae Rothaus Kyndall Rae Rothaus, a popular young female minister, tackles the ancient Mary Magdalene smear campaign as an example of the damage which can be done by mistaken assumptions. To her, it's yet another example of the way people discredit strong women, both in the past and today. She believes that unraveling the Mary Magdalene smear campaign can help all people discover the divine feminine within.
2022-10-0529 minThe Bible and BeyondAncient Manichaeism: An Example of the Christian Insider-Outsider DebateScholar Jae Han describes the ancient Manichaean Christian religion as an outsider in the minds of Roman western Christians because it originated in Persia. Manichaeans considered themselves Christian, but heresiologists called them "Manichaeans." In the same vein, Manichaeans called Catholic Christians "Jews." From a Western perspective, if any religion originated in the East, it can't be truly Christian. It was unnatural for Westerners (Romans) to consider a religion Christian if it originated in the East.
2022-09-0728 minThe Bible and BeyondAn Ancient Gold Glass Challenges Biblical BoundariesAn interview with Eric C. Smith, PhD Eric C. Smith, a scholar of biblical studies, uses an ancient gold glass as an example of why we should expand our concepts of what we call 'biblical.' The Bible itself is an "assemblage" of people, history, geography, and oral traditions that contributed to the creation of some portion of the Bible. Objects of art depicting similar stories and events are also assemblages, in that the stories may have come from the same or similar sources.
2022-08-0329 minThe Bible and BeyondThe Secret Behind the Secrets in So-Called GnosticismAn interview with Nicola Denzey Lewis Nicola Denzey Lewis helps crack the code on perplexing questions about so-called 'Gnosticism.' Where is it from? What is it about? Why the secrets? Her own story about how she got involved explains why it is appealing to some and unnerving to others. She explains why it was such an important part of the development of Christianity in the second century and how it wrestled with major philosophical questions related to creation and the meaning of evil.
2022-07-0633 minThe Bible and BeyondWhy Should We Believe Anything in the Secret Revelation of John?A conversation between Dr. Shirley Paulson and Dr. Arthur Dewey When books like the Secret Revelation of John are not in the biblical canon, questions arise concerning their worth. The conversation between Shirley Paulson and Arthur Dewey includes reasons for the Secret Revelation of John's extracanonical status as well as its intrinsic worth. They also discuss its unusual treatment of the Hebrew text, Genesis, its adaptation to the context of Platonism in Alexandria, Egypt, and how these connections serve the greater purpose of developing insights.
2022-05-3129 minThe Bible and BeyondWhat Kind of Person Was Judas Really?In this interview with Dr. David Brakke, he discusses his new translation and commentary on the Gospel of Judas. The basic message is that Jesus is explaining to Judas why his own terrible sacrifice is necessary for God to set the universe right. In doing so, the author of the gospel is critiquing his contemporary Jesus-followers for their ritual practices of sacrifice. Such sacrifices distort the true relationship between the human (dying mortals) and spiritual (non-dying) part of one's being.
2022-05-0433 minThe Bible and BeyondHow Illness and Heresy Became Entangled in ChristianityAn Interview with Dr. Jennifer Barry The dramatic story of Bishop John Chrysostom's two exiles and subsequent death (in the 4th century) is tangled up with the Empress Eudoxia and her miscarriages. It was known that diseases spread the same way internal corruption spreads through communities rather quickly, so uncertainty of not knowing who is heretical and who has a disease made the easy association between heresy and disease. Therefore Eudoxia's suffering and death became the scapegoat for Chrysostom's theological missteps.
2022-04-0631 minThe Bible and BeyondThecla's Fight for IndependenceAn Interview with Dr. Deborah Niederer Saxon The story of Paul and Thecla, well-known in antiquity, indicates a diversity of viewpoints about women's roles in the early Christian years. Her resistance to the cultural norm fits with the popular attitude among Christians toward dying the "noble death,—referring to those who stood firm upon their moral principles to the end. But Thecla's willingness to die, as well as her victory over her oppressors, differs from the message of submissiveness.
2022-03-0231 minThe Bible and BeyondNoncanonical Texts Illuminate the BibleDr. Brandon Scott interviews Dr. Shirley Paulson–the host of the Bible and Beyond podcast—about authoring a difficult chapter, "Jesus by Many Other Names," in the new book, After Jesus Before Christianity: A Historical Exploration of the First Two Centuries of Jesus Movements. Paulson speaks of her love for the noncanonical texts of the second century, and explains how they illuminate one's understanding of Jesus, the Bible itself, and the debate over 'Gnosticism.' Shirley Paulson has a Master of Theological Studies from Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary, and a PhD in Religion and Theology from the University of B...
2022-02-0231 minThe Bible and BeyondFinding Depth in Jesus's Farmer ParablesJesus was an educator who taught in the Greco-Roman mode the importance of morality, virtue, and goodness. Although his own trade was a carpenter, he used the better-known Greco-Roman farming parables to teach his deeper meaning. Of course, the specifics of Jesus's education differed, but his common technique made him a recognizable teacher within the context of the educational system of the time. The parables in the Gospels of Mark and Thomas illustrate this point.
2022-01-0432 minThe Bible and BeyondMore Answers to the Question "Where is God When Things Go Wrong?"James McGrath, a professor at Butler University, gives credit to several ancient thinkers for wrestling with the question of God in a messy world. Referencing Irenaeus, for example, he notes that it might be this way because we need to grow and develop. The question of evil, when we try to hold to a good God, is always with us, and we now have the privilege of building on the ideas of those early thinkers.
2021-12-0136 minThe Bible and BeyondMarcion Answers "Where Is God When Things Go Wrong?"Marcion, a popular but controversial early Christian leader, tackles the question of how to believe in a good God in the face of evil things happening. Plato introduced the idea, and other first- and second-century thinkers drew on the idea, of a 'demiurge' – a creator god who deals with the world. The perfect and transcendent God would never create a world of bad stuff but lovingly dispatched a savior to offer a way out of the world of suffering.
2021-11-0333 minThe Bible and BeyondEarly Christians Answer "Where Is God When Things Go Wrong?"Dr. Jason BeDuhn studies ancient Christian, Jewish, and Manichaean thinkers, and in this podcast interview, he explores their common "tipping point"—the place where all these religious groups struggled to find answers to explain a perfect God who allowed bad things to happen. All of them did so by blurring the idea of monotheism to some degree. There was some other divine influence, commonly known as a 'demiurge' who became the source of evil in some manner.
2021-10-0631 minThe Bible and BeyondWhat Is the Apocrypha and Why Read It?Dr. Brandon Hawk's new book, Apocrypha for Beginners: A Guide to Understanding and Exploring Scriptures Beyond the Bible, is an easy-to-read and indispensable book for people seeking to understand all the extracanonical writings—sometimes called apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, or deuteroncanonical writings. Although they are not in the Bible, they all relate to the Bible in some important way, from the earliest Hebrew texts through the Middle Ages and teach us something about the Bible's impact on world thought.
2021-09-0131 minThe Bible and BeyondWas Adam the Original Sinner?Dr. Lance Jenott introduces the idea in early Christian writing that Adam was a victim, rather than the original sinner. As his 'helper,' Eve is Adam's savior. Although the New Testament includes very little mention of Adam, other extracanonical texts envision another source of evil determined to make Adam submissive. Although 4th century Augustine interpreted Genesis differently, earlier writings show how a spiritual marriage to Christ unites "Adam" (humanity) with "Eve" (life in the spirit).
2021-08-0430 min
The Bible and BeyondWho Are All the Marys in the New Testament?Bible readers often wonder which Mary the New Testament authors are referring to. Anna Cwikla describes the seven different Marys mentioned in the New Testament (and even more Marys in extracanonical texts). At least one of the New Testament Marys plays a prominent role in some of the books outside the Bible. Cwikla draws our attention to some clues, but no promises, for identifying these Marys. She also warns us to note how our wishful thinking distorts our conclusions.
2021-07-0733 min
The Bible and BeyondIs the Idea of Christian Heresy Still Relevant?Chance Bonar thinks Christian accusations of 'heresy' will probably last to some degree, but the way many think about such things is changing. Branding someone a 'heretic,' and some theological ideas as 'heretical' began when different church authorities tried to preserve the status quo and maintain adherence to what they saw as original doctrine. But the discovery of the Nag Hammadi texts (and some new scholarship) are re-defining 'heresy' as a discourse, rather than something emerging from an evil power. Gnostic stereotypes are yielding to a more nuanced and thoughtful understanding, providing an example of how to express...
2021-06-0231 min
The Bible and BeyondCharles Hedrick and Nag Hammadi ManuscriptsIn this interview, Charles Hedrick describes how he became one of the first people to work directly with the ancient manuscripts found near Nag Hammadi, Egypt. His deep religious curiosity led him from his traditional Baptist origins to the Coptic Museum in Old Cairo. There, he worked with scholars putting fragments of the newly discovered texts together and translating them. His questions led him to other hot topics: the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Judas.
2021-05-0530 min
The Bible and BeyondWhat the Apostles Did after the ResurrectionProfessor Janet Spittler leads us comfortably into the unfamiliar world of apocryphal texts, where we learn what happened to the apostles after the resurrection. The texts are part-history, part-entertainment, part-ethical teaching, but wholly important to our understanding of the development of Christianity. They are fascinating and multi-layered, offering glimpses of Jesus's teaching as well as later church teaching. The texts are stories that Christians have written, told, read, and copied for more than a thousand years.
2021-04-0727 minThe Bible and BeyondAre the Shapira Deuteronomy Fragments Real or Forgeries?When Idan Dershowitz broke the news last week that the extremely ancient Shapira Deuteronomy Fragments (aka Shapira Scroll or Valediction of Moses) might not be forgeries, but actually authentic, Tony Burke agreed to discuss some of the public questions and concerns about it with Early Christian Texts. Dershowitz claims the manuscript could be older than Deuteronomy. Although not directly involved in this case, Dr. Burke does have experience with modern forgeries and explains what's at stake and what scholars study.
2021-03-1741 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Gospel of Matthew's Problematic PropheciesRobert J. Miller, New Testament scholar, discusses how it is possible for modern readers to do justice to ancient texts such as the Gospel of Matthew—at home in its own world—while still seeking valuable meaning in our twenty-first century world. Ancient prophecies did not intend to provide accurate predictions of the future but to provide hints about God's presence in the world. Twenty-first century perspectives are clearer when we understand what prophecies meant in antiquity.
2021-03-0331 minThe Bible and BeyondHow the Odes of Solomon Enhance Jewish-Christian DialogueSamuel Zinner and Mark Mattison, translators of the Odes of Solomon, illustrate interrelated elements of Jewish and Christian thought throughout the odes. Some examples from Isaiah demonstrate new ways of thinking about the age-old debates. People often think the Odes are a praise to Jesus. But as Zinner points out, the odes are written to represent words of Jesus in praise to God, not the worship of Jesus.
2021-02-0430 min
The Bible and BeyondWho Is Paul, and What Did He Really Write That's in the Bible?Dr. Nina Livesey, a scholar on Paul and his writings in the Bible, explains what scholars think Paul must have written and what he probably didn't write. She agrees with recent scholarly consensus that these letters hold together with common theological perspectives, concepts, and vocabulary. But she pushes a bit farther, describing how Paul's rhetoric is more intentionally strategic than people have thought. His letters also demonstrate his ethical implications for faith.
2021-01-0635 min
The Bible and BeyondIs Practical Theology a Contradiction in Terms?Shirley Paulson asks Dr. Stephen Pattison, her PhD supervisor, to discuss how Practical Theology works in our lives today when we read ancient texts. Stephen probes the relationships we establish with tradition, texts from another era, and interpretation. The point of religious faith is to engage meaningfully with the world and to become less frightened of difference. Healing work is about a bigger, better understanding of ourselves and the world.
2020-12-0332 minThe Bible and BeyondConservative Christian Finds Biblical EgalitarianismMarg Mowczko, from an evangelical church in Australia, researches the topic of egalitarianism in the Bible. She holds both a deep faith in the Bible and the essentially equal nature of men and women. She spends many hours each day answering questions about women's roles in the church. Her primary study is about what Paul and other New Testament writers say concerning Christian ministry and leadership. She concludes that the Bible supports the idea that men and women are essentially equal. Interview questions include a discussion on 1 Timothy and other troubling passages.
2020-11-0528 minThe Bible and BeyondJesus Learned from Women, Seriously!Dr. James McGrath inverts the usual question about women learning from Jesus. The podcast interview highlights McGrath's new book, in which he draws on both scholarly rigor and historical fiction to address gaps in historical knowledge. Strikingly, his examples of Jesus learning from women include some women with lower status, such as a poor widow and a girl accused of adultery. McGrath addresses both theological problems and social sensitivities related to the unusual claim for Jesus as a learner.
2020-09-3037 min
The Bible and BeyondExtracanonical Texts through a Womanist LensRev. Stephanie A. Duzant is a woman of color and ordained minister utilizing extracanonical texts to inspire congregations to better use the Bible. Her womanist lens allows her to recognize the ways many extracanonical texts challenge culturally-pervasive agendas, especially those involving race, gender, and the meaning of community. Sharing her insights with her listeners affords them an opportunity to understand Christianity in new ways.
2020-09-0331 minThe Bible and BeyondAncient Household Models Elucidate PhilemonPaul's letter to his Roman colleague, Philemon, delicately balances Roman expectations for enslaved people, their masters, and the new egalitarian ideas in the Christ communities. Learning the lifestyle of ancient Rome in families and households, listeners are invited to imagine what Onesimus, Paul's enslaved friend, must have felt when Paul's letter was read aloud to his master, Philemon. The tension concerning the authority over a runaway slave is palpable, but not spoken.
2020-08-0630 minThe Bible and BeyondWhy You Should Read New Testament ApocryphaDr. Tony Burke, editor of the newly released second edition New Testament Apocrypha: More Noncanonical Scriptures, explains not only what is fascinating about these ancient texts but why he thinks churches and Christians would benefit by reading them. In this interview, he offers meaning to the very bizarre stories and why they help us understand the history and evolution of the Christian church. He also talks candidly about what they do and don't do to our faith.
2020-07-0231 min
The Bible and BeyondOdes of Solomon: Contemporary Musical SettingsIn this second podcast in the series on the 'Odes of Solomon,' Natalie Renee Perkins and Deborah Saxon chat together about Natalie's contemporary musical setting of some of the odes. Deb, a scholar of ancient Christian texts, explains the feminine imagery, the reference to Sophia (Wisdom), and the purpose of ancient hymns used by both Jews and Christians before they diverged. Natalie, a professional singer, writer, and composer, plays some of her contemporary music settings of the Odes.
2020-06-0438 minThe Bible and BeyondA New Translation of the Odes of SolomonIn this podcast, Samuel Zinner and Mark M. Mattison tell us why they're so enthusiastic about their new translation of the first- or second-century Odes of Solomon. This collection of ancient songs, or hymns, are not only real monuments of literature, but they transcend the borders of religious orthodoxy. Written before the early Jesus movements distinguished themselves from Judaism, they are equally at home with Judaism, the Gospel of John, and the Dead Sea Scrolls. The divine Feminine is also featured.
2020-05-0726 minThe Bible and BeyondHow Jesus's Followers Made Sense of His CrucifixionIn this episode, Professor Arthur Dewey explains why Christians felt so differently about Jesus's crucifixion long after the event than his immediate followers did. Jesus had taught the presence of God and how to live that, but the shock of his death caused re-thinking and re-evaluating of this shame-inducing passion experience for many decades and centuries. Jesus's counter-cultural message brought hope to members of the Roman-occupied community, but his crucifixion strengthened their memory and faith.
2020-04-0230 minThe Bible and BeyondHow Jesus's Followers Made Sense of His CrucifixionIn this episode, Professor Arthur Dewey explains why Christians felt so differently about Jesus's crucifixion long after the event than his immediate followers did. Jesus had taught the presence of God and how to live that, but the shock of his death caused re-thinking and re-evaluating of this shame-inducing passion experience for many decades and centuries. Jesus's counter-cultural message brought hope to members of the Roman-occupied community, but his crucifixion strengthened their memory and faith.
2020-04-0230 minThe Bible and BeyondLearning from Ancient Rome's Rape NarrativeDr. Celene Lillie discovered in some ancient texts a remarkable metaphor, a rape narrative that relates to both the imperial actions of ancient Rome and modern forms of destructive behavior. Three writers of the second century re-imagined the story of Eve in Genesis as a representation of the violation of Rome's victims. Despite the violence, Eve overthrows victimization and becomes a healing Christ figure. Her children become saviors of the world.
2020-03-0530 minThe Bible and BeyondJesus in Q: Women Are as Valuable as MenDr. Sara Parks found gender parallels in the parables in Q that show Jesus's deliberate valuing of women for God's kingdom ('basileia'). For example, a man who lost a sheep rejoices when it is found; a woman who lost a coin rejoices when it is found. The basileia is within – for both women and men. But Parks explains that Jesus's egalitarian values did not automatically lead to a dismantling of patriarchal norms of the day.
2020-02-0629 minThe Bible and BeyondWhat's at Stake When Heresy Sells?'Heresy' sells. Maybe it's because it's mysterious, dangerous, or entertaining. But the idea of ancient 'Christian heresies' is misleading. The tendency to make ideas 'right' or 'wrong' confuses the issues. Strong early Christian women, such as Mary Magdalene, Thecla, and Perpetua, posed a threat to the developing male hierarchy, but their words seem to be consistent with the words of the men. Heresy, then, is not a natural category; it is more about who the power brokers were.
2020-01-0229 minThe Bible and BeyondBiblical Violence: Help or Harm?Dr. Karri Whipple's experience with intimate violence organizations guides her studies of violence and trauma in New Testament studies. She demonstrates how multiple readings from various Biblical and extracanonical texts help us process trauma. But readers should also take care to understand the context of the stories of gender and racial violence so that the examples do not become an excuse to perpetuate violence. Reading from a variety of perspectives also helps readers find many paths to the healing of trauma and pain.
2019-12-0531 minThe Bible and BeyondWhat the Mandaeans Know about John the BaptistDr. James McGrath introduces us to the Mandaeans, a modern-day community that practices a religion with ancient roots. Their sacred texts mention John the Baptist and Jesus and other names that are familiar from the Bible. If you're interested in the New Testament, in Christianity, you'll also be interested in this group. Since they practice baptism as their main ritual, these people may be the 2,000 year-long descendants of John the Baptist.
2019-11-0730 minThe Bible and BeyondIs Martha the Sister of Mary Magdalene?Elizabeth Schrader describes her discovery of the addition of Martha in the Gospel of John. Did she find enough evidence to lead to her conclusion that Mary and Lazarus had no sister named Martha? Or that Lazarus' sister Mary might actually have been Mary Magdalene? Elizabeth speculates about all this, but she has found motives and other evidence that lend strong support for her theories. A CORRECTION: At 13:17 in the podcast, Elizabeth meant to say 'Boanerges,' rather than 'Bartimaeus.'
2019-10-0130 min
The Bible and BeyondProtevangelium of James: New/Old Views of MaryDr. Lily Vuong – from a family of Vietnam refugees – found the 'outsider' point of view in the Protevangelium of James resonated with her own experience. It's an apocryphal text, but instead of thinking of it as a 'failed scripture,' Vuong encourages us to appreciate the beauty and meaning of the book on its own merit. The story recounts Mary's preparation to become the mother of Jesus. Historical facts are less important than the value and meaning of purity.
2019-09-1029 minThe Bible and BeyondShepherd of Hermas: Respect for the PoorIn Shepherd of Hermas, Elliott finds distinguishing Christian feature: the poor are to be honored. All of us – slaves and masters – should be servants to God.
2019-08-1031 minThe Bible and BeyondJustice and Peace for Christians and Jews in the Hebrew BibleBarry's deep love of both the Old Testament (Hebrew Bible) and New Testament inspires us to listen in new ways to familiar texts as well as the ones we're not so aware of. They awaken our moral imagination to deeper values of justice and peace. About Barry Dr. Barry R. Huff is Assistant Professor of Religion at Principia College. His interests include wisdom literature, Psalms, Torah, creation theology, Intertextuality, ecological hermeneutics, and the reception history of the Bible. He received his PhD in Biblical Studies from Union Presbyterian Seminary, a ThM from Columbia Theological Seminary...
2019-07-1034 min
The Bible and BeyondDemystifying the 'Dialogue of the Savior'I don't know if it's because Anna Cwikla is so down-to-earth herself, or the strange-sounding Dialogue of the Savior is much more down-to-earth than people realize, but in this podcast conversation, Anna talks about the characters in the story as if they are people we'd enjoy talking to today. She is an avid participant on her softball team and curling team, but she's also committed to working on her dissertation for her Ph.D. in the Department for the Study of Religion (at the University of Toronto). I asked Anna about the one woman (named 'Mary') in...
2019-06-1023 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Nag Hammadi Collection The Bible and Beyond Podcast Episode The Nag Hammadi Collection An Interview with Dr. Celene Lillie Dr. Celene Lillie dug deep enough into the books in the Nag Hammadi collection that she can talk about them as easily as close friends. First she introduces us to what these special books are all about and what drew her to them in the first place. Then she explains the difference between the better-known Dead Sea Scrolls and this Nag Hammadi library of codices. Talking to Celene about these texts helps us un...
2019-05-1032 min
The Bible and BeyondReading the 'Other' Gospels The Bible and Beyond Podcast Episode Reading the 'Other' Gospels An interview with Mark M. Mattison When Mark M. Mattison, an independent scholar of ancient Christian texts, first encountered the Gospel of Thomas, he was intrigued. The full text of this Gospel had been discovered in 1945 with a collection of other unknown texts near Nag Hammadi, Egypt, and it subsequently became a proxy for a larger debate about the legitimacy of the institutional church. Some, fearing it would undermine the authority of the Bible, argued that it was a deviant version of...
2019-04-1031 min
The Bible and BeyondIt's Ok to Look at Extracanonical Texts! The Bible and Beyond Podcast Episode It's Ok to Look at Extracanonical Texts! An interview with Dr. Hal Taussig Dr. Hal Taussig compels us to walk through the door into the world of extracanonical texts. Whether we grew up fully satisfied that our Christian faith is established and needs no additional information about 'unauthorized things,' or we are eager to explore a deeper view of the early Christians – Hal walks with us, step by step to a realization that these lesser known texts are vitally important, beautiful, vibrant, and valid today...
2019-03-1627 min
The Bible and BeyondThe Power of Self-Control in Early Christian Communities The Bible and Beyond Podcast Episode The Power of Self-Control in Early Christian Community An interview with Deborah Saxon, PhD Dr. Deborah Saxon, teacher of religion at Butler University in Indianapolis, explains in this interview why the practice of self-control was so important to early Jesus followers. Learning self-control was part of the education for young leaders in the Greco-Roman culture of antiquity, and ultimately it became a prevalent idea for society. Early Jesus followers saw it as a means for what today we might call 'taming their egos.' ...
2019-02-1031 min